Compacted math going away?

[Anonymous]

http://mathacademy.com is a bit extreme, but they've got classes with poor brown kids passing AP Calc exams on 8th and 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Telling kids to spin their wheels for a learning nothing, and then to double up later to catch up, is totally insane.

Schools should offer a much deeper enriched honors curriculum. But they don't. The teachers who teach Math 6 don't understand math deeply and so can't support advanced learners. So the choice is either accelerate, or paper over the problem at home, or brain rot.

And if you ask a Chinese parent why they want to "accelerate" their kid, they'll explain they are just trying to keep up with the curriculum from back home, not accelerate.
STEM professional; almost all my coworkers did acceleration and enrichment.

This part is definitely true. Most of the math teachers in mcps aren't math majors. And it completely shows. Partly why I'd want my kid to take MV in college, not mcps high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Telling kids to spin their wheels for a learning nothing, and then to double up later to catch up, is totally insane.

Schools should offer a much deeper enriched honors curriculum. But they don't. The teachers who teach Math 6 don't understand math deeply and so can't support advanced learners. So the choice is either accelerate, or paper over the problem at home, or brain rot.

And if you ask a Chinese parent why they want to "accelerate" their kid, they'll explain they are just trying to keep up with the curriculum from back home, not accelerate.
STEM professional; almost all my coworkers did acceleration and enrichment.

This part is definitely true. Most of the math teachers in mcps aren't math majors. And it completely shows. Partly why I'd want my kid to take MV in college, not mcps high school.

Are you talking about ES? Otherwise, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://mathacademy.com is a bit extreme, but they've got classes with poor brown kids passing AP Calc exams on 8th and 9th grade.

This sounds interesting but I just don’t want more screens for the kid. He is already on it too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is speculation, but maybe compacted math is being changed in some way due to curriculum issues.

Compacted math, covering 4th-6th grade math in elementary school, used to lead to AIM, covering 7th and 8th grade math in 6th grade, and then to algebra in 7th. AIM was created by MCPS, and many middle schools seem to be getting rid of it in favor of the options available from the current MS curriculum provider (LearnZillion/Imagine Learning Classroom). LearnZillion options include "6+", which covers 6th and half of 7th grade math, and "7+", which covers the rest of 7th and 8th grade math. So if you're trying to get to Algebra in 7th grade using these options, you end up doing compacted math and then 7+, missing part of the 7th grade math curriculum.

I could see MCPS trying to adjust the elementary school compacted classes to address this, but I don't know if that's really happening.

That’s fine, but if they eliminate ES acceleration and start at 6+ for advanced 6th graders, no one will get to Algebra until 8th, which is out of step with a lot of the rest of the country and will have consequences for students in high school and college.

Back in the 90s, in a different Maryland jurisdiction, we had everyone in 4th grade math together, advanced kids did both 5th and 6th grade math in 5th, in 6th grade we did pre-algebra and then Algebra 1 in 7th. Advanced kids was probably the top 15-20 percent, but I don’t actually know. It wasn’t most kids.

No, no it won't. The amount of hand-wringing that parents of 4th graders do on this Board about the need for their child to take Algebra in 7th grade or whatever is always hilarious. Your kid will be just fine and, contrary to popular belief, the impact that their inability to take multivariable calculus by 10th grade or whatever makes you feel happy on what they will be able to take in college is nonexistent.

I generally find DCUM's obsession with math acceleration frustrating, but you are wrong here. The only way that any kids in MCPS get to M/V Calculus is by allowing some of them to take Algebra I in 7th grade at the latest. If MCPS indeed pushes that to 8th grade (which I actually think is unlikely and believe the OP's teacher friend was wrong about), it would mean that zero kids would be able to take M/V Calculus without either doing a math class outside of school, coming in from a private school, or doubling up on math in HS.

The horror. Larlo won’t be able to get a job in Silicon Valley with that track

There are almost 200K students in MCPS. For none of them to be prepared for STEM programs, or for only the rich kids who can afford external coursework to be prepared, would be a tremendous failure.

Do you really think a child needs multivariable calculus to be a STEM major?
If so, you are very wrong.

There are a lot of people in this thread who do obviously don't work in STEM. Those of us who do realize this early acceleration is not necessary. And it might be counter productive actually.

Also, other (better) school systems realize this. There is hardly any permitted acceleration in Boston in the public school system. You take Algebra in 8th, geometry in 9th for the accelerated track. Like how it used to be here on the advanced track.

Like you, I have also heard from educators at a very fancy school that most dcum parents would do anything to get their kids into that early acceleration can be problematic.

I think they’re talking generally. it’s case by case imo. What is the true ability and maturity of the student, what is the curriculum like, what are the teachers like? It’s great mcps, a gigantic school, offers many MS and HS math levels to account for the large diversity of student abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is speculation, but maybe compacted math is being changed in some way due to curriculum issues.

Compacted math, covering 4th-6th grade math in elementary school, used to lead to AIM, covering 7th and 8th grade math in 6th grade, and then to algebra in 7th. AIM was created by MCPS, and many middle schools seem to be getting rid of it in favor of the options available from the current MS curriculum provider (LearnZillion/Imagine Learning Classroom). LearnZillion options include "6+", which covers 6th and half of 7th grade math, and "7+", which covers the rest of 7th and 8th grade math. So if you're trying to get to Algebra in 7th grade using these options, you end up doing compacted math and then 7+, missing part of the 7th grade math curriculum.

I could see MCPS trying to adjust the elementary school compacted classes to address this, but I don't know if that's really happening.

That’s fine, but if they eliminate ES acceleration and start at 6+ for advanced 6th graders, no one will get to Algebra until 8th, which is out of step with a lot of the rest of the country and will have consequences for students in high school and college.

Back in the 90s, in a different Maryland jurisdiction, we had everyone in 4th grade math together, advanced kids did both 5th and 6th grade math in 5th, in 6th grade we did pre-algebra and then Algebra 1 in 7th. Advanced kids was probably the top 15-20 percent, but I don’t actually know. It wasn’t most kids.

No, no it won't. The amount of hand-wringing that parents of 4th graders do on this Board about the need for their child to take Algebra in 7th grade or whatever is always hilarious. Your kid will be just fine and, contrary to popular belief, the impact that their inability to take multivariable calculus by 10th grade or whatever makes you feel happy on what they will be able to take in college is nonexistent.

I generally find DCUM's obsession with math acceleration frustrating, but you are wrong here. The only way that any kids in MCPS get to M/V Calculus is by allowing some of them to take Algebra I in 7th grade at the latest. If MCPS indeed pushes that to 8th grade (which I actually think is unlikely and believe the OP's teacher friend was wrong about), it would mean that zero kids would be able to take M/V Calculus without either doing a math class outside of school, coming in from a private school, or doubling up on math in HS.

The horror. Larlo won’t be able to get a job in Silicon Valley with that track

There are almost 200K students in MCPS. For none of them to be prepared for STEM programs, or for only the rich kids who can afford external coursework to be prepared, would be a tremendous failure.

Do you really think a child needs multivariable calculus to be a STEM major?
If so, you are very wrong.

There are a lot of people in this thread who do obviously don't work in STEM. Those of us who do realize this early acceleration is not necessary. And it might be counter productive actually.

Also, other (better) school systems realize this. There is hardly any permitted acceleration in Boston in the public school system. You take Algebra in 8th, geometry in 9th for the accelerated track. Like how it used to be here on the advanced track.

Like you, I have also heard from educators at a very fancy school that most dcum parents would do anything to get their kids into that early acceleration can be problematic.

I think they’re talking generally. it’s case by case imo. What is the true ability and maturity of the student, what is the curriculum like, what are the teachers like? It’s great mcps, a gigantic school, offers many MS and HS math levels to account for the large diversity of student abilities.

*school district

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Telling kids to spin their wheels for a learning nothing, and then to double up later to catch up, is totally insane.

Schools should offer a much deeper enriched honors curriculum. But they don't. The teachers who teach Math 6 don't understand math deeply and so can't support advanced learners. So the choice is either accelerate, or paper over the problem at home, or brain rot.

And if you ask a Chinese parent why they want to "accelerate" their kid, they'll explain they are just trying to keep up with the curriculum from back home, not accelerate.
STEM professional; almost all my coworkers did acceleration and enrichment.

This part is definitely true. Most of the math teachers in mcps aren't math majors. And it completely shows. Partly why I'd want my kid to take MV in college, not mcps high school.

Are you talking about ES? Otherwise, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

I do actually. I have friends and 2 close family members who are math teachers (in mcps, hcps, ffx). They were math education majors, not math majors. It's quite different. They didn't take many of the classes I took (as an applied math major in undergrad). What they learned was very important but also very different from what's focused on in higher level maths. Actually my SIL (who teaches high school algebra 2) got in by a teaching program similar to TFA in another city. She was an anthropology major.

Its fine, public schools have a hard time recruiting teachers anyway, the last thing they need to do is make it even harder to be a teacher. But really challenging classes like MV, DM, LA should be taught by people who liked the subject enough to study it further.

[Anonymous]

I think people are gunning to get into the advanced track because the regular track is just too slow for some kids -- and that is because there is no real enrichment in MCPS math. It is accleleration or nothing. I agree with PP that they should offer an enriched math class in ES that follows grade-level standards but goes much deeper, offering extensions and enrichment rather than accelearation. This would only work if it's a separate class, like compacted math is in most schools. Then they could start the acceleration with 6+ in middle school, so the typical advanced track does A1 in 8th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Telling kids to spin their wheels for a learning nothing, and then to double up later to catch up, is totally insane.

Schools should offer a much deeper enriched honors curriculum. But they don't. The teachers who teach Math 6 don't understand math deeply and so can't support advanced learners. So the choice is either accelerate, or paper over the problem at home, or brain rot.

And if you ask a Chinese parent why they want to "accelerate" their kid, they'll explain they are just trying to keep up with the curriculum from back home, not accelerate.
STEM professional; almost all my coworkers did acceleration and enrichment.

This part is definitely true. Most of the math teachers in mcps aren't math majors. And it completely shows. Partly why I'd want my kid to take MV in college, not mcps high school.

Are you talking about ES? Otherwise, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

I do actually. I have friends and 2 close family members who are math teachers (in mcps, hcps, ffx). They were math education majors, not math majors. It's quite different. They didn't take many of the classes I took (as an applied math major in undergrad). What they learned was very important but also very different from what's focused on in higher level maths. Actually my SIL (who teaches high school algebra 2) got in by a teaching program similar to TFA in another city. She was an anthropology major.

Its fine, public schools have a hard time recruiting teachers anyway, the last thing they need to do is make it even harder to be a teacher. But really challenging classes like MV, DM, LA should be taught by people who liked the subject enough to study it further.

At UMD, Math Education is a math major.

You're barking up the wrong tree. Differential Equations and Topology knowledge isn't what's missing from K-12 math teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the teacher is wrong or misunderstood something. A third grade teacher would not necessarily know the curricular pathway for upper elementary.

If you are concerned, however, you should probably take this question to the gifted education community of the Montgomery County PTA. They have a Facebook group and would be able to get an answer from the central office relatively quickly I think

+1 This is your best way to an answer. It has absolutely not been announced or publicized anywhere official that compacted math is going away next year. But sometimes people in Central Office start making plans or decisions, particularly around accelerated and enriched programs, and do not inform anyone.
FWIW, I do think there have been some low key rumblings about changes for next year. My kids are in MS, so it wouldn’t affect me. But I’d get with the Gifted Ed committee if I had a 3rd grader, tbh. These decisions can and will affect the trajectory kids can have in high school and will potentially put the strongest students at a disadvantage compared to other students in other jurisdictions who can access upper level math in HS because of their earlier pathway.
Many current high schoolers are lacking in some foundational math concepts. This is almost entirely because MCPS condensed/omitted a ton of math content the two covid years and never went back and covered it. I fear they will mistakenly use that data to justify needing to slow down everyone’s path in a sneaky attempt to eliminate acceleration earlier on, even in the face of students like OP’s who clearly demonstrate a readiness and need for acceleration and enrichment.

You mean because kids spend a year and a half playing Fortnite instead of doing their schoolwork.

No, because MCPS cut out 20% of the curriculum to allow for fewer hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is speculation, but maybe compacted math is being changed in some way due to curriculum issues.

Compacted math, covering 4th-6th grade math in elementary school, used to lead to AIM, covering 7th and 8th grade math in 6th grade, and then to algebra in 7th. AIM was created by MCPS, and many middle schools seem to be getting rid of it in favor of the options available from the current MS curriculum provider (LearnZillion/Imagine Learning Classroom). LearnZillion options include "6+", which covers 6th and half of 7th grade math, and "7+", which covers the rest of 7th and 8th grade math. So if you're trying to get to Algebra in 7th grade using these options, you end up doing compacted math and then 7+, missing part of the 7th grade math curriculum.

I could see MCPS trying to adjust the elementary school compacted classes to address this, but I don't know if that's really happening.

That’s fine, but if they eliminate ES acceleration and start at 6+ for advanced 6th graders, no one will get to Algebra until 8th, which is out of step with a lot of the rest of the country and will have consequences for students in high school and college.

Back in the 90s, in a different Maryland jurisdiction, we had everyone in 4th grade math together, advanced kids did both 5th and 6th grade math in 5th, in 6th grade we did pre-algebra and then Algebra 1 in 7th. Advanced kids was probably the top 15-20 percent, but I don’t actually know. It wasn’t most kids.

No, no it won't. The amount of hand-wringing that parents of 4th graders do on this Board about the need for their child to take Algebra in 7th grade or whatever is always hilarious. Your kid will be just fine and, contrary to popular belief, the impact that their inability to take multivariable calculus by 10th grade or whatever makes you feel happy on what they will be able to take in college is nonexistent.

I generally find DCUM's obsession with math acceleration frustrating, but you are wrong here. The only way that any kids in MCPS get to M/V Calculus is by allowing some of them to take Algebra I in 7th grade at the latest. If MCPS indeed pushes that to 8th grade (which I actually think is unlikely and believe the OP's teacher friend was wrong about), it would mean that zero kids would be able to take M/V Calculus without either doing a math class outside of school, coming in from a private school, or doubling up on math in HS.

And how would that damage them? Not taking M/V Calculus in high school holds no one back from STEM majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is speculation, but maybe compacted math is being changed in some way due to curriculum issues.

Compacted math, covering 4th-6th grade math in elementary school, used to lead to AIM, covering 7th and 8th grade math in 6th grade, and then to algebra in 7th. AIM was created by MCPS, and many middle schools seem to be getting rid of it in favor of the options available from the current MS curriculum provider (LearnZillion/Imagine Learning Classroom). LearnZillion options include "6+", which covers 6th and half of 7th grade math, and "7+", which covers the rest of 7th and 8th grade math. So if you're trying to get to Algebra in 7th grade using these options, you end up doing compacted math and then 7+, missing part of the 7th grade math curriculum.

I could see MCPS trying to adjust the elementary school compacted classes to address this, but I don't know if that's really happening.

That’s fine, but if they eliminate ES acceleration and start at 6+ for advanced 6th graders, no one will get to Algebra until 8th, which is out of step with a lot of the rest of the country and will have consequences for students in high school and college.

Back in the 90s, in a different Maryland jurisdiction, we had everyone in 4th grade math together, advanced kids did both 5th and 6th grade math in 5th, in 6th grade we did pre-algebra and then Algebra 1 in 7th. Advanced kids was probably the top 15-20 percent, but I don’t actually know. It wasn’t most kids.

No, no it won't. The amount of hand-wringing that parents of 4th graders do on this Board about the need for their child to take Algebra in 7th grade or whatever is always hilarious. Your kid will be just fine and, contrary to popular belief, the impact that their inability to take multivariable calculus by 10th grade or whatever makes you feel happy on what they will be able to take in college is nonexistent.

I generally find DCUM's obsession with math acceleration frustrating, but you are wrong here. The only way that any kids in MCPS get to M/V Calculus is by allowing some of them to take Algebra I in 7th grade at the latest. If MCPS indeed pushes that to 8th grade (which I actually think is unlikely and believe the OP's teacher friend was wrong about), it would mean that zero kids would be able to take M/V Calculus without either doing a math class outside of school, coming in from a private school, or doubling up on math in HS.
[i][u]

A lot of places offer doubling up on math (specifically algebra 2 and geometry) to their most advanced 9th graders. It makes a lot more sense to offer it there then to push a bunch of kids into algebra 1 in 7th grade.
By 9th grade, kids are more mature and it's easier to understand who would really benefit from the most advanced (and largely unnecessary) math track compared to making guesses in 4th grade.

This is the advanced path my niece took in a private school (not MD). That said, she didn’t need to fit in a year of health A and B in her schedule, the tech credit, or PE at all (sports requirement). I think expecting kids to double up in math and also fit in all these other pesky requirements is really too much.

+1 I understand that the State wants HS graduates to be prepared for a healthy and successful life, but it would be better if there was more of a wheel of options rather than you must do everything approach.

Kids have plenty of time in their HS schedule for options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is speculation, but maybe compacted math is being changed in some way due to curriculum issues.

Compacted math, covering 4th-6th grade math in elementary school, used to lead to AIM, covering 7th and 8th grade math in 6th grade, and then to algebra in 7th. AIM was created by MCPS, and many middle schools seem to be getting rid of it in favor of the options available from the current MS curriculum provider (LearnZillion/Imagine Learning Classroom). LearnZillion options include "6+", which covers 6th and half of 7th grade math, and "7+", which covers the rest of 7th and 8th grade math. So if you're trying to get to Algebra in 7th grade using these options, you end up doing compacted math and then 7+, missing part of the 7th grade math curriculum.

I could see MCPS trying to adjust the elementary school compacted classes to address this, but I don't know if that's really happening.

That’s fine, but if they eliminate ES acceleration and start at 6+ for advanced 6th graders, no one will get to Algebra until 8th, which is out of step with a lot of the rest of the country and will have consequences for students in high school and college.

Back in the 90s, in a different Maryland jurisdiction, we had everyone in 4th grade math together, advanced kids did both 5th and 6th grade math in 5th, in 6th grade we did pre-algebra and then Algebra 1 in 7th. Advanced kids was probably the top 15-20 percent, but I don’t actually know. It wasn’t most kids.

No, no it won't. The amount of hand-wringing that parents of 4th graders do on this Board about the need for their child to take Algebra in 7th grade or whatever is always hilarious. Your kid will be just fine and, contrary to popular belief, the impact that their inability to take multivariable calculus by 10th grade or whatever makes you feel happy on what they will be able to take in college is nonexistent.

I generally find DCUM's obsession with math acceleration frustrating, but you are wrong here. The only way that any kids in MCPS get to M/V Calculus is by allowing some of them to take Algebra I in 7th grade at the latest. If MCPS indeed pushes that to 8th grade (which I actually think is unlikely and believe the OP's teacher friend was wrong about), it would mean that zero kids would be able to take M/V Calculus without either doing a math class outside of school, coming in from a private school, or doubling up on math in HS.

The horror. Larlo won’t be able to get a job in Silicon Valley with that track

There are almost 200K students in MCPS. For none of them to be prepared for STEM programs, or for only the rich kids who can afford external coursework to be prepared, would be a tremendous failure.

Do you really think a child needs multivariable calculus to be a STEM major?
If so, you are very wrong.

There are a lot of people in this thread who do obviously don't work in STEM. Those of us who do realize this early acceleration is not necessary. And it might be counter productive actually.

Also, other (better) school systems realize this. There is hardly any permitted acceleration in Boston in the public school system. You take Algebra in 8th, geometry in 9th for the accelerated track. Like how it used to be here on the advanced track.

Algebra in 8th is still the accelerated track in MCPS. There is just also an advanced track that allows for some kids to do Algebra in 7th. This advanced track is not new. Kids have been doing things like this since I was in MS. They were just all in magnet programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people are gunning to get into the advanced track because the regular track is just too slow for some kids -- and that is because there is no real enrichment in MCPS math. It is accleleration or nothing. I agree with PP that they should offer an enriched math class in ES that follows grade-level standards but goes much deeper, offering extensions and enrichment rather than accelearation. This would only work if it's a separate class, like compacted math is in most schools. Then they could start the acceleration with 6+ in middle school, so the typical advanced track does A1 in 8th.

At the ES level an enriched class would still be an accelerated class. Even if they did a class with a curriculum like say Beast Academy as enriched, the kids in this class would still ready to tackle Pre-algebra in 6th and Algebra in 7th which is exactly what the MCPS curriculum does. The ES acceleration is not the problem. CM could potentially utilize some more in-depth problems and applications but the problem is MS math where further acceleration happens unnecessarily, and where Algebra and Geometry are taught as separate classes as opposed to integrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Telling kids to spin their wheels for a learning nothing, and then to double up later to catch up, is totally insane.

Schools should offer a much deeper enriched honors curriculum. But they don't. The teachers who teach Math 6 don't understand math deeply and so can't support advanced learners. So the choice is either accelerate, or paper over the problem at home, or brain rot.

And if you ask a Chinese parent why they want to "accelerate" their kid, they'll explain they are just trying to keep up with the curriculum from back home, not accelerate.
STEM professional; almost all my coworkers did acceleration and enrichment.

This part is definitely true. Most of the math teachers in mcps aren't math majors. And it completely shows. Partly why I'd want my kid to take MV in college, not mcps high school.

FYI, most teachers have degrees in education. Very few were math majors, but there's always a few to cover the more demanding courses.