Middle class family being bamboozled with large "scholarships" from tier 5 LACs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

You probably don’t understand following a passion.

And that employers like athletes because they know how to pick themselves up after a loss and back in the game.

My kid is not an athlete, but they also know how to do that. This type of thing can be learned in various ways, not just through sports.

Yes, but employers can use that to filter applications. Your DC may not get the chance to let HR know "they also know how to do that."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

You probably don’t understand following a passion.

And that employers like athletes because they know how to pick themselves up after a loss and back in the game.

My kid is not an athlete, but they also know how to do that. This type of thing can be learned in various ways, not just through sports.

And if you can show that to an employer they will like that. What have they done to knock themselves down and get back up?

What do they do that is equivalent to a full time job for the university and being a student?

I believe the number one employer of washed up college jocks is Enterprise Rent-A-Car. Few selective employers care if your Suzy or Noah played D3 volleyball at a backwater college. Certainly not enough to make up for the zero brand recognition and lack of career resources and bare-bones experience at an underfunded D3 college. A number of these colleges are on the brink of insolvency.

Wow, you all really spend a lot of time thinking about other folks and their kids. How do you know all of them? Didn't your prestigious alma mater shelter you from the unwashed?

Agree on the insolvency. Serious issue.

Why would you encourage family or your own children to go to a no-name college several states away which might not exist in the near future? It's a terrible idea. I'd argue some of these no-name LACs aren't worth it even if they were free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

What is incorrect, exactly?

That they would get a better education at the same price.

What exactly is better at random bottom tier liberal arts colleges nobody has ever heard of? You can feel the austerity, there's no funding for anything, often bad locations and tiny size make them very insular. They basically exist so mediocre student-athletes can go play a sport after high school. With birth rates where they are, many of them won't exist in ten years.

Why do you care? You have such contempt for the folks that attend these schools, so why does it matter to you?

And it sounds like it will be taken care of in due time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

You probably don’t understand following a passion.

And that employers like athletes because they know how to pick themselves up after a loss and back in the game.

My kid is not an athlete, but they also know how to do that. This type of thing can be learned in various ways, not just through sports.

And if you can show that to an employer they will like that. What have they done to knock themselves down and get back up?

What do they do that is equivalent to a full time job for the university and being a student?

I believe the number one employer of washed up college jocks is Enterprise Rent-A-Car. Few selective employers care if your Suzy or Noah played D3 volleyball at a backwater college. Certainly not enough to make up for the zero brand recognition and lack of career resources and bare-bones experience at an underfunded D3 college. A number of these colleges are on the brink of insolvency.

Wow, you all really spend a lot of time thinking about other folks and their kids. How do you know all of them? Didn't your prestigious alma mater shelter you from the unwashed?

Agree on the insolvency. Serious issue.

Why would you encourage family or your own children to go to a no-name college several states away which might not exist in the near future? It's a terrible idea. I'd argue some of these no-name LACs aren't worth it even if they were free.

I'm not. Both DCs are at T10 LACs. One looked at a few with high admit rates as well as good grad outcomes because they liked some of the program offerings. I'm just not judgy about why/how people make decisions. Ideally folks, especially middle class folks (isn't that the whole point of this thread?), will make informed decisions, including a college's fiscal health. But I'm not going to smear those schools, their alum, etc. Life is too short to vent so much spleen on something that is clearly not concerning you or your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

What is incorrect, exactly?

That they would get a better education at the same price.

Many of these unkown schools have the same sticker price as much better schools. Since D3 can't offer academic scholarships, you depend on merit to bring the cost down. A kid with good stats will get merit in both places. So say tuition is 80K and you get 20k in merit. You pay 60K for a meh school so you can play a sport for 4 years (which you could do on a club team anyway) or get a solid education at respected institution for the same price. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Actually, although D3 can only offer “merit”, coaches will tag the application of good players for the highest scholarship possible, which is often substantial. Also, good athletes who want a D3 program (and some are even better than D1), will play schools off each other for the best “merit”. It’s not so straightforward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which schools do you mean? I'm not familiar with this and am curious if tier 5 LACs are names we'd know

Tier-5 LACs must be T5 LACs - Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is scholarships in scare quotes? Are these families being offered money or not?

Is it that these are schools that offer scholarship money to get kids to come, and then make it hard to keep the scholarships so families wind up having to switch schools or bother to stay?

Or are you just talking about schools that offer a lot of merit aid to kids with good stats in order to induce them to come to the school and boost their numbers? I do not feel middle class families get "bamboozled" by this because generally if a kid has good stats, the family is with it enough to be able to evaluate options, since the kid will have some with high numbers, including in state options.

In any case, of all the things about higher education to be worried about right now, this seems far down the list unless you are talking about actual fraud.

I wondered that as well.

A scholarship is $ you don’t have to pay back or do work to receive. Whether $500 or $50,000, it’s a scholarship.

It's like shopping at an outlet mall, all the b-grade merch is discounted from fake ticket prices to give an illusion you're getting an amazing deal. The discount isn't real, just like "scholarships" offered to everyone aren't real.

Have you ever had a scholarship? I’ve had several. Your tuition isn’t super-inflated so that everyone can get a scholarship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

You probably don’t understand following a passion.

And that employers like athletes because they know how to pick themselves up after a loss and back in the game.

My kid is not an athlete, but they also know how to do that. This type of thing can be learned in various ways, not just through sports.

Yes, but employers can use that to filter applications. Your DC may not get the chance to let HR know "they also know how to do that."

When it comes to selective internships and employment, college kids are filtered by:

- career fairs (no-name LACs don't lure any selective employers to campus)
- campus career center / portal
- college prestige
- degree prestige
- GPA
- campus involvement (sports... greek life, club leadership, volunteering, research assistant)
- powerful alumni who seek out grads
- letters of rec from high status professors
- and of course nepotism (who your parents and college friends' parents know)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which schools do you mean? I'm not familiar with this and am curious if tier 5 LACs are names we'd know

Tier-5 LACs must be T5 LACs - Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona,

No. Tier 5 as in bottom tier, no-name private colleges most people have never heard of.

[Anonymous]

I mean, the kid playing baseball at D3 Colby Sawyer isn’t in the running for a Jane Street internship. So why does it matter where Mr Colby goes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it so interesting that so many kids from my DC's public MCPS high school go to these no name D3 colleges to play a sport. It's not like they are getting a full scholarship. Just seems so short sighted to pick a school with low return on investment for the privilege of playing in a mediocre league for 4 years. Some of these kids could clearly get better educations for the same price.

You probably don’t understand following a passion.

And that employers like athletes because they know how to pick themselves up after a loss and back in the game.

My kid is not an athlete, but they also know how to do that. This type of thing can be learned in various ways, not just through sports.

Yes, but employers can use that to filter applications. Your DC may not get the chance to let HR know "they also know how to do that."

When it comes to selective internships and employment, college kids are filtered by:

- career fairs (no-name LACs don't lure any selective employers to campus)
- campus career center / portal
- college prestige
- degree prestige
- GPA
- campus involvement (sports... greek life, club leadership, volunteering, research assistant)
- powerful alumni who seek out grads
- letters of rec from high status professors
- and of course nepotism (who your parents and college friends' parents know)

So now we are on to selective. Most kids are not getting [i]selective[/i] internships but you keep on doing you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which schools do you mean? I'm not familiar with this and am curious if tier 5 LACs are names we'd know

Non-selective, middle of nowhere, mediocre graduation rates, around 2,000 students

Examples?

Beloit? Sewanee?

(Not OP)

[Anonymous]

Most private colleges are expensive for no reason. Many end up transferring out and boomerang back home to a regional public university or if they have the grades, try to get into the state flagship for their second year.

[Anonymous]

Why is this any of your business OP? Take care of your own kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most private colleges are expensive for no reason. Many end up transferring out and boomerang back home to a regional public university or if they have the grades, try to get into the state flagship for their second year.

+1 the real scam is any college being $60K+

DD goes to a LAC with merit aid that costs us about the same as DS at Virginia Tech. We do not feel scammed, we're just knowledgeable about the college pricing game. She found a school that offered the environment she wanted, a good program for her major, school finances are fine and lots of construction/upgrading of facilities in progress. It's not like the choice was this vs. someplace like Williams. The choice was this vs. Mary Washington.