Does anyone else ever have skepticism over too many dx?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP with a highly socially challenged kid who even with that doesn’t officially meet the ASD diagnosis.

I don’t understand how a kid who supposedly has a disorder which is primarily marked by an inability to read social cues can by age six adopt a sufficient number of social behaviors to fly under the radar. Makes no sense to me. And so many posters on here who announce that a diagnostician finally figured out that their MS or Hs kid has ASD. Again, as the parent of a kid who is highly compromised socially, this doesn’t make sense to me.

I mean, there are lots of six year olds that struggle with social cues, and most of them aren't autistic. So it's not that hard for the autistic ones to fly under the radar until they're older and most of their peers have become much more socially sophisticated and they haven't.

+1 This is particularly common if they are girls. Autistic girls on average struggle less than autistic boys when they are younger and more than autistic boys when they are older.

DP. I have heard that first part, that autistic girls struggle less than autistic boys. I haven't heard the second part, that they struggle more than autistic boys when they are older. I'm not sure I've seen that in my anecdotal experience. Can you elaborate?

It was mentioned in the Donna Henderson podcast I have posted on this thread twice.
I also just googled the following:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34080460/

Feel free to do your own research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or am I a bad person?
It's not that I don't believe parents so much (although maybe sometimes a little bit that) but mostly that I just think how crppy the dsm is that you need to say 'my kid has asd, adhd, pda, anxiety and sensory issues'. Like - really? I could say my kid has all of those but just seems like overkill.
Really wish the DSM would come up with some more profiles for us so that we had better categorization. I see so many on here who have oppositional, inflexible kids who display few of the traditional symptoms of asd but nonetheless get that label for lack of a better option.

OP, you need to reconcile your ableism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or am I a bad person?
It's not that I don't believe parents so much (although maybe sometimes a little bit that) but mostly that I just think how crppy the dsm is that you need to say 'my kid has asd, adhd, pda, anxiety and sensory issues'. Like - really? I could say my kid has all of those but just seems like overkill.
Really wish the DSM would come up with some more profiles for us so that we had better categorization. I see so many on here who have oppositional, inflexible kids who display few of the traditional symptoms of asd but nonetheless get that label for lack of a better option.

OP, you need to reconcile your ableism

DP. I am fully reconciled to my ableism. My kids with diagnoses are mainstreamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

oh jeez. autism is truly meaningless as a diagnosis if you truly believe that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

This takes decades to get to this point, fwiw, as well as high IQ and motivation. And deficits in perspective taking and shifting frames are still an issue. But I agree that these people are high functioning and need a different label. As do the high functioning children they were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
BECAUSE THERE ARE CLUSTERS OF COMORBIDITIES.

You can have ADHD as a standalone.

But if you have ASD, it usually comes with anxiety, ADHD symptoms, sensory and coordination issues, OCD, etc. It's part of the autism profile.

Having said that, a lot of kids have ADHD and anxiety. A lot of kids have ADHD and dyslexia.

This is because there must be a number of genes that commonly induce those disorders, so if you inherit a particular common combo, you get a multi-whammy.

I have one child with ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, sensory issues, and accompanying medical issues that frequently appear with autism (constipation, sleep problems, etc).

eh. just a few years ago the DSM said you can’t be diagnosed with ADHD and ASD. the DSM is not a manual of genetics or even underlying disease states. It’s a taxonomy of symptoms getting ever broader so more kids have more dx’s. It’s also more common now for kids to get “neuropsychs” that provide multiple diagnoses.

My kid has ASD dx and also recently got a dyspraxia diagnosis. The dyspraxia diagnosis actually is pretty helpful because he has pretty meaningful fine motor & coordination challenges. I’m sure we could probably also get anxiety, ADHD and maybe something like DMDD or ODD dx’s. But I don’t think there’s really any point to that. I will say that people tend to see autism as more totalizing and explanatory, even though he doesn’t really fit any sort of classical presentation and his main challenges are not core autism symptoms (unless you just call it all “rigidity.”)

yes, same (I am op).
i guess what i mean is because there is no 'aqua' in the dsm, we are forced to say that our child has blue, green and yellow.
would be better if there was aqua. because my child may have elements of blue or green, but is not blue or green.

I do think there are synthesis disorders and that over time we will have more apt diagnostic options. Until then I focus on whether or not the services we can receive meet the needs of my child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

oh jeez. autism is truly meaningless as a diagnosis if you truly believe that.

I don't think so but you are entitled to your opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

Autism is a brain disorder - what is going on *inside* the brain is what makes the condition, not *only* what you can see on the outside.

Or are you saying a magician who can convincingly perform an illusion has, by definition, actually performed magic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

Autism is a brain disorder - what is going on *inside* the brain is what makes the condition, not *only* what you can see on the outside.

Or are you saying a magician who can convincingly perform an illusion has, by definition, actually performed magic?

Autism is NOT a “brain disorder”. It is a disorder defined by behaviors. So no, there cannot be hidden autism. I’m confused why this is even a question- if your kid shows no outward social-communication issues, rigidity, etc, why do you think they should be diagnosed with autism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

Autism is a brain disorder - what is going on *inside* the brain is what makes the condition, not *only* what you can see on the outside.

Or are you saying a magician who can convincingly perform an illusion has, by definition, actually performed magic?

Autism is NOT a “brain disorder”. It is a disorder defined by behaviors. So no, there cannot be hidden autism. I’m confused why this is even a question- if your kid shows no outward social-communication issues, rigidity, etc, why do you think they should be diagnosed with autism.

DP they actually DO have outward social communication issues, rigidity, etc. This has been stated in different ways throughout this thread. The way these issues manifest, however, are not always recognized as symptoms of autism by people who aren't trained to diagnose autism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

Autism is a brain disorder - what is going on *inside* the brain is what makes the condition, not *only* what you can see on the outside.

Or are you saying a magician who can convincingly perform an illusion has, by definition, actually performed magic?

Autism is NOT a “brain disorder”. It is a disorder defined by behaviors. So no, there cannot be hidden autism. I’m confused why this is even a question- if your kid shows no outward social-communication issues, rigidity, etc, why do you think they should be diagnosed with autism.

"Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a developmental disability caused by differences in the brain." https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/facts.html#:~:text=Autism%20spectrum%20disorder%20(ASD)%20is,most%20common%20ways%20people%20develop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

Autism is a brain disorder - what is going on *inside* the brain is what makes the condition, not *only* what you can see on the outside.

Or are you saying a magician who can convincingly perform an illusion has, by definition, actually performed magic?

Autism is NOT a “brain disorder”. It is a disorder defined by behaviors. So no, there cannot be hidden autism. I’m confused why this is even a question- if your kid shows no outward social-communication issues, rigidity, etc, why do you think they should be diagnosed with autism.

DP they actually DO have outward social communication issues, rigidity, etc. This has been stated in different ways throughout this thread. The way these issues manifest, however, are not always recognized as symptoms of autism by people who aren't trained to diagnose autism.

Well that’s very different from other claims being made about “masking.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

Autism is a brain disorder - what is going on *inside* the brain is what makes the condition, not *only* what you can see on the outside.

Or are you saying a magician who can convincingly perform an illusion has, by definition, actually performed magic?

Autism is NOT a “brain disorder”. It is a disorder defined by behaviors. So no, there cannot be hidden autism. I’m confused why this is even a question- if your kid shows no outward social-communication issues, rigidity, etc, why do you think they should be diagnosed with autism.

DP they actually DO have outward social communication issues, rigidity, etc. This has been stated in different ways throughout this thread. The way these issues manifest, however, are not always recognized as symptoms of autism by people who aren't trained to diagnose autism.

Well that’s very different from other claims being made about “masking.”

No it isn't. Masking makes them look different from what you would expect but it does not erase them. Again this has been stated in different ways throughout this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw masking does not mean a person with autism is trying to hide they have autism. It means they have adapted to society's expectations to a certain extent even though it is uncomfortable or not intuitive for them. They may not know they have autism. They may have simply realized people expect them to use eye contact, for example, because adults have told them to look at people when they talk to them. Adults tell this to young children all the time.

a person who can adapt to the point they do not appear autistic by definition has normal social-communication learning ability and is not autistic.

Autism is a brain disorder - what is going on *inside* the brain is what makes the condition, not *only* what you can see on the outside.

Or are you saying a magician who can convincingly perform an illusion has, by definition, actually performed magic?

Autism is NOT a “brain disorder”. It is a disorder defined by behaviors. So no, there cannot be hidden autism. I’m confused why this is even a question- if your kid shows no outward social-communication issues, rigidity, etc, why do you think they should be diagnosed with autism.

DP they actually DO have outward social communication issues, rigidity, etc. This has been stated in different ways throughout this thread. The way these issues manifest, however, are not always recognized as symptoms of autism by people who aren't trained to diagnose autism.

Well that’s very different from other claims being made about “masking.”

No it isn't. Masking makes them look different from what you would expect but it does not erase them. Again this has been stated in different ways throughout this thread.

The idea that a child is “masking” such that they are having no symptoms of autism at school is just not tenable. That’s the point. And yes the symptoms have to look like what you “expect” otherwise its not autism. I’m not a huge fan of the DSM but this drive to claim autism can be diagnosed in the absence of the DSM criteria is just silly. Autism *by definition* is not hidden. It’s not like a physical disorder that may be silent, like a brain tumor or something.