Do I let my teen drop down to non-honors Alg 2?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this ninth grade? And is the question ability vs grit?

If the issue is ability and all the stress that comes with that - feeling overwhelmed: not doing as well as peers no matter the effort - would totally step down and find a more appropriate progression of math classes.

If it's lack of effort, that's different. The student needs a reality check about college admissions. Maryland and Virginia are not happening without higher level math classes. You need to be a really special person - rich, connected, URM, recruited scholarship athlete, tuba player - to get into a top 40 school without calculus by senior year.

But maybe that doesn't matter in this situation. Regardless, would use this moment to give the student a heads up. College admissions is incredibly competitive these days. Not taking the more advanced math classes dramatically reduces the potential college list. And a good foundation is the basis for so many careers - engineering, finance, medicine, consulting etc etc. You don't want to close doors at 14/15 if you don't have to.

Am I missing something? If OP’s kid “drops down” to regular Algebra II as a freshman, they’ll take pre-calc as a sophomore, and Calc as a junior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. My DD dropped down. No regrets.

If I could do it all over again, I don't think I would have ever had them go the compacted math route.

+1. My younger child is actually stronger in math but was put on the slower track. By the time they get to HS, this is really a blessing in disguise.

It's definitely NOT a blessing in disguise. Kids these days lack grit, resilience, and perseverance. I think there's a TON of value in taking an accelerated and difficult math class and working your butt off for a B minus -- it teaches you how to work hard and how to push yourself. This is especially important for gifted kids (which presumably OP's kid is based off of their description), as they tend to have a lot of unearned academic success.

Push your kids outside of their comfort zone! This is why I believe that most kids in DMV public schools (unless they have a learning disorder) should be taking the most rigorous course load that their school offers. Kids NEED to be pushed out of their comfort zone.

Faster does not mean better. It’s actually better to take time to understand the subject and let kids brains develop rather through getting from quiz to quiz with superficial understanding.

But you do you.

+1,000 on both parts.

Lots of ways to approach this. I happen to agree with PP. But others will take a different approach.

There a lots of paths to raising mature, engaged, educated, and motivated children. Each family does it their way. Live and let live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this ninth grade? And is the question ability vs grit?

If the issue is ability and all the stress that comes with that - feeling overwhelmed: not doing as well as peers no matter the effort - would totally step down and find a more appropriate progression of math classes.

If it's lack of effort, that's different. The student needs a reality check about college admissions. Maryland and Virginia are not happening without higher level math classes. You need to be a really special person - rich, connected, URM, recruited scholarship athlete, tuba player - to get into a top 40 school without calculus by senior year.

But maybe that doesn't matter in this situation. Regardless, would use this moment to give the student a heads up. College admissions is incredibly competitive these days. Not taking the more advanced math classes dramatically reduces the potential college list. And a good foundation is the basis for so many careers - engineering, finance, medicine, consulting etc etc. You don't want to close doors at 14/15 if you don't have to.

Am I missing something? If OP’s kid “drops down” to regular Algebra II as a freshman, they’ll take pre-calc as a sophomore, and Calc as a junior.

Now imagine how that child will do in those classes, after burning out 4 weeks into Algebra 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A B in honors algebra II in FCPS is a 3.5. Honors count .5 more, only AP classes count 1.0 more for gpa.

Regardless, drop down. My dd did it and I’m so glad we did.

And in APS, only AP, IB, and DE classes are weighted, from my understanding (not honors, aka intensified). This is why colleges recalculate everyone’s GPA, and it’s silly to get hung up on exactly what you think your GPA is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this ninth grade? And is the question ability vs grit?

If the issue is ability and all the stress that comes with that - feeling overwhelmed: not doing as well as peers no matter the effort - would totally step down and find a more appropriate progression of math classes.

If it's lack of effort, that's different. The student needs a reality check about college admissions. Maryland and Virginia are not happening without higher level math classes. You need to be a really special person - rich, connected, URM, recruited scholarship athlete, tuba player - to get into a top 40 school without calculus by senior year.

But maybe that doesn't matter in this situation. Regardless, would use this moment to give the student a heads up. College admissions is incredibly competitive these days. Not taking the more advanced math classes dramatically reduces the potential college list. And a good foundation is the basis for so many careers - engineering, finance, medicine, consulting etc etc. You don't want to close doors at 14/15 if you don't have to.

Am I missing something? If OP’s kid “drops down” to regular Algebra II as a freshman, they’ll take pre-calc as a sophomore, and Calc as a junior.

Now imagine how that child will do in those classes, after burning out 4 weeks into Algebra 2.

It’s Alg 2 Honors to Alg 2 and even if they aren’t taking honors they get both Calc or get to Calc and Stats by senior year.

And most kids aren’t looking for a top 40 college

[Anonymous]

Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. My DD dropped down. No regrets.

If I could do it all over again, I don't think I would have ever had them go the compacted math route.

+1. My younger child is actually stronger in math but was put on the slower track. By the time they get to HS, this is really a blessing in disguise.

It's definitely NOT a blessing in disguise. Kids these days lack grit, resilience, and perseverance. I think there's a TON of value in taking an accelerated and difficult math class and working your butt off for a B minus -- it teaches you how to work hard and how to push yourself. This is especially important for gifted kids (which presumably OP's kid is based off of their description), as they tend to have a lot of unearned academic success.

Push your kids outside of their comfort zone! This is why I believe that most kids in DMV public schools (unless they have a learning disorder) should be taking the most rigorous course load that their school offers. Kids NEED to be pushed out of their comfort zone.

One B- means UVA is off the table. This is why parents freak out over a single B.

Can you please share data confirming that no one with a single B is admitted to UVA? Wouldn’t they care more about overall GPA?

GPA’s are so high now that one ding like that is enough. Kids getting into UVA have 4.6+

Scare tactics. A B in Honors is a 4.0

Yep. Which will bring DOWN the GPA of someone trying to go to UVA, etc. I can tell Math is not your strong suit either.

You used weighted GPA, and I gave you the weight back. There is no top weighted GPA so your number of 4.6 has no actual value besides trying to scare people with a big number.

You are still compared against others in your school district applying to the same colleges. And the counselors have to answer questions about rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No this isn’t a matter of struggling. This is a matter of executive function, time management, and studying habits. They won’t be any better dropping to easier courses. There is still homework, tests, etc..

They really need to stop making middle school so easy. Failing our kids in high school.

I agree with you. I suspect this is a common problem. At my daughter's public middle school, the math WAY too easy at the level of prealgebra and algebra 1. And there was hardly any homework assigned. Even the math oriented kids can breeze through with high A's without ever consolidating the material. I recognized this was going on, even as my kid was getting A+'s in math without much effort, and I was able to intervene with summer work so that my DD was actually prepared for Algebra 2 and precalc.

Even with an “easy” middle school experience, there are plenty of kids out there who are naturally self-motivated and self-organized enough to keep up with honors Algebra 2 - without parental reminders or pressure, without summer work, and without a tutor. They’re just ready for the class and they meet it head on.

One of my kids is like this. One is not. The one who is like this has excelled on the accelerated + honors track. The other is probably capable of doing the work on that track, but is not yet mature or motivated enough to do so. Which is fine, and they’re progressing well (learning the math and improving the executive functioning skills) on an accelerated but not honors track (what OP is considering.)

We don’t see math as a race. Nor do we see any reason to push them. And we certainly don’t believe in filling their time with summer work or tutors. They set the right pace for them, and both are progressing well. No reason to overthink this one.

I see you're reading into my post a lot of stuff I didn't say. There was not parental pressure-my kid was self motivated and loves math. She loved the "real" summer math class and wanted to do it. It was one of the best things we did for her because it was the first time she experienced a challenge in math and realized it was exciting. We don't view math as a race, but just for perspective both my husband and I are scientists and faculty at a science-oriented university. We just want her to learn actual math to a depth that we know is necessary to do well as a STEM major (which she wants to be), and that certainly isn't happening at a lot of schools today. More public schools are doing away with homework and getting rid of text books, coming up with their own curriculum materials, replacing written problem sets and proofs with simple multiple choice questions, as well as putting so many kids into "advanced" tracks whether they are interested in math/science or not. I see a real problem brewing for kids who love science. All my colleagues with kids in public schools see the problem too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No this isn’t a matter of struggling. This is a matter of executive function, time management, and studying habits. They won’t be any better dropping to easier courses. There is still homework, tests, etc..

They really need to stop making middle school so easy. Failing our kids in high school.

I agree with you. I suspect this is a common problem. At my daughter's public middle school, the math WAY too easy at the level of prealgebra and algebra 1. And there was hardly any homework assigned. Even the math oriented kids can breeze through with high A's without ever consolidating the material. I recognized this was going on, even as my kid was getting A+'s in math without much effort, and I was able to intervene with summer work so that my DD was actually prepared for Algebra 2 and precalc.

Even with an “easy” middle school experience, there are plenty of kids out there who are naturally self-motivated and self-organized enough to keep up with honors Algebra 2 - without parental reminders or pressure, without summer work, and without a tutor. They’re just ready for the class and they meet it head on.

One of my kids is like this. One is not. The one who is like this has excelled on the accelerated + honors track. The other is probably capable of doing the work on that track, but is not yet mature or motivated enough to do so. Which is fine, and they’re progressing well (learning the math and improving the executive functioning skills) on an accelerated but not honors track (what OP is considering.)

We don’t see math as a race. Nor do we see any reason to push them. And we certainly don’t believe in filling their time with summer work or tutors. They set the right pace for them, and both are progressing well. No reason to overthink this one.

I see you're reading into my post a lot of stuff I didn't say. There was not parental pressure-my kid was self motivated and loves math. She loved the "real" summer math class and wanted to do it. It was one of the best things we did for her because it was the first time she experienced a challenge in math and realized it was exciting. We don't view math as a race, but just for perspective both my husband and I are scientists and faculty at a science-oriented university. We just want her to learn actual math to a depth that we know is necessary to do well as a STEM major (which she wants to be), and that certainly isn't happening at a lot of schools today. More public schools are doing away with homework and getting rid of text books, coming up with their own curriculum materials, replacing written problem sets and proofs with simple multiple choice questions, as well as putting so many kids into "advanced" tracks whether they are interested in math/science or not. I see a real problem brewing for kids who love science. All my colleagues with kids in public schools see the problem too.

You need to get off your chat forums and look at what is actually happening in the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No this isn’t a matter of struggling. This is a matter of executive function, time management, and studying habits. They won’t be any better dropping to easier courses. There is still homework, tests, etc..

They really need to stop making middle school so easy. Failing our kids in high school.

I agree with you. I suspect this is a common problem. At my daughter's public middle school, the math WAY too easy at the level of prealgebra and algebra 1. And there was hardly any homework assigned. Even the math oriented kids can breeze through with high A's without ever consolidating the material. I recognized this was going on, even as my kid was getting A+'s in math without much effort, and I was able to intervene with summer work so that my DD was actually prepared for Algebra 2 and precalc.

Even with an “easy” middle school experience, there are plenty of kids out there who are naturally self-motivated and self-organized enough to keep up with honors Algebra 2 - without parental reminders or pressure, without summer work, and without a tutor. They’re just ready for the class and they meet it head on.

One of my kids is like this. One is not. The one who is like this has excelled on the accelerated + honors track. The other is probably capable of doing the work on that track, but is not yet mature or motivated enough to do so. Which is fine, and they’re progressing well (learning the math and improving the executive functioning skills) on an accelerated but not honors track (what OP is considering.)

We don’t see math as a race. Nor do we see any reason to push them. And we certainly don’t believe in filling their time with summer work or tutors. They set the right pace for them, and both are progressing well. No reason to overthink this one.

I see you're reading into my post a lot of stuff I didn't say. There was not parental pressure-my kid was self motivated and loves math. She loved the "real" summer math class and wanted to do it. It was one of the best things we did for her because it was the first time she experienced a challenge in math and realized it was exciting. We don't view math as a race, but just for perspective both my husband and I are scientists and faculty at a science-oriented university. We just want her to learn actual math to a depth that we know is necessary to do well as a STEM major (which she wants to be), and that certainly isn't happening at a lot of schools today. More public schools are doing away with homework and getting rid of text books, coming up with their own curriculum materials, replacing written problem sets and proofs with simple multiple choice questions, as well as putting so many kids into "advanced" tracks whether they are interested in math/science or not. I see a real problem brewing for kids who love science. All my colleagues with kids in public schools see the problem too.

You need to get off your chat forums and look at what is actually happening in the schools.

Why don't you educate us if you're so knowledgable? What I wrote is actually what has happened at my kid's school, and confirmed by all my frustrated educator friends in the same district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No this isn’t a matter of struggling. This is a matter of executive function, time management, and studying habits. They won’t be any better dropping to easier courses. There is still homework, tests, etc..

They really need to stop making middle school so easy. Failing our kids in high school.

I agree with you. I suspect this is a common problem. At my daughter's public middle school, the math WAY too easy at the level of prealgebra and algebra 1. And there was hardly any homework assigned. Even the math oriented kids can breeze through with high A's without ever consolidating the material. I recognized this was going on, even as my kid was getting A+'s in math without much effort, and I was able to intervene with summer work so that my DD was actually prepared for Algebra 2 and precalc.

Even with an “easy” middle school experience, there are plenty of kids out there who are naturally self-motivated and self-organized enough to keep up with honors Algebra 2 - without parental reminders or pressure, without summer work, and without a tutor. They’re just ready for the class and they meet it head on.

One of my kids is like this. One is not. The one who is like this has excelled on the accelerated + honors track. The other is probably capable of doing the work on that track, but is not yet mature or motivated enough to do so. Which is fine, and they’re progressing well (learning the math and improving the executive functioning skills) on an accelerated but not honors track (what OP is considering.)

We don’t see math as a race. Nor do we see any reason to push them. And we certainly don’t believe in filling their time with summer work or tutors. They set the right pace for them, and both are progressing well. No reason to overthink this one.

I see you're reading into my post a lot of stuff I didn't say. There was not parental pressure-my kid was self motivated and loves math. She loved the "real" summer math class and wanted to do it. It was one of the best things we did for her because it was the first time she experienced a challenge in math and realized it was exciting. We don't view math as a race, but just for perspective both my husband and I are scientists and faculty at a science-oriented university. We just want her to learn actual math to a depth that we know is necessary to do well as a STEM major (which she wants to be), and that certainly isn't happening at a lot of schools today. More public schools are doing away with homework and getting rid of text books, coming up with their own curriculum materials, replacing written problem sets and proofs with simple multiple choice questions, as well as putting so many kids into "advanced" tracks whether they are interested in math/science or not. I see a real problem brewing for kids who love science. All my colleagues with kids in public schools see the problem too.

You need to get off your chat forums and look at what is actually happening in the schools.

I work in the public school system and the OP is absolutely correct. This is why my kids go to private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this ninth grade? And is the question ability vs grit?

If the issue is ability and all the stress that comes with that - feeling overwhelmed: not doing as well as peers no matter the effort - would totally step down and find a more appropriate progression of math classes.

If it's lack of effort, that's different. The student needs a reality check about college admissions. Maryland and Virginia are not happening without higher level math classes. You need to be a really special person - rich, connected, URM, recruited scholarship athlete, tuba player - to get into a top 40 school without calculus by senior year.

But maybe that doesn't matter in this situation. Regardless, would use this moment to give the student a heads up. College admissions is incredibly competitive these days. Not taking the more advanced math classes dramatically reduces the potential college list. And a good foundation is the basis for so many careers - engineering, finance, medicine, consulting etc etc. You don't want to close doors at 14/15 if you don't have to.

Do colleges really toss applicants aside if they haven’t taken Calc BC? Even if a student isn’t interesting in engineering/CS? My kid is a good (not great) math student, but has found these upper level math classes really difficult. My thinking is it’s better to drop down a level, so she can do better in her other advanced classes. So for example, she would do Cal AB junior year and AP Stats senior year. Does that foreclose opportunities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this ninth grade? And is the question ability vs grit?

If the issue is ability and all the stress that comes with that - feeling overwhelmed: not doing as well as peers no matter the effort - would totally step down and find a more appropriate progression of math classes.

If it's lack of effort, that's different. The student needs a reality check about college admissions. Maryland and Virginia are not happening without higher level math classes. You need to be a really special person - rich, connected, URM, recruited scholarship athlete, tuba player - to get into a top 40 school without calculus by senior year.

But maybe that doesn't matter in this situation. Regardless, would use this moment to give the student a heads up. College admissions is incredibly competitive these days. Not taking the more advanced math classes dramatically reduces the potential college list. And a good foundation is the basis for so many careers - engineering, finance, medicine, consulting etc etc. You don't want to close doors at 14/15 if you don't have to.

Do colleges really toss applicants aside if they haven’t taken Calc BC? Even if a student isn’t interesting in engineering/CS? My kid is a good (not great) math student, but has found these upper level math classes really difficult. My thinking is it’s better to drop down a level, so she can do better in her other advanced classes. So for example, she would do Cal AB junior year and AP Stats senior year. Does that foreclose opportunities?

This track is fine for non-engineering. The schools want to see Calculus and Calc AB is fine for non-stem kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this ninth grade? And is the question ability vs grit?

If the issue is ability and all the stress that comes with that - feeling overwhelmed: not doing as well as peers no matter the effort - would totally step down and find a more appropriate progression of math classes.

If it's lack of effort, that's different. The student needs a reality check about college admissions. Maryland and Virginia are not happening without higher level math classes. You need to be a really special person - rich, connected, URM, recruited scholarship athlete, tuba player - to get into a top 40 school without calculus by senior year.

But maybe that doesn't matter in this situation. Regardless, would use this moment to give the student a heads up. College admissions is incredibly competitive these days. Not taking the more advanced math classes dramatically reduces the potential college list. And a good foundation is the basis for so many careers - engineering, finance, medicine, consulting etc etc. You don't want to close doors at 14/15 if you don't have to.

Do colleges really toss applicants aside if they haven’t taken Calc BC? Even if a student isn’t interesting in engineering/CS? My kid is a good (not great) math student, but has found these upper level math classes really difficult. My thinking is it’s better to drop down a level, so she can do better in her other advanced classes. So for example, she would do Cal AB junior year and AP Stats senior year. Does that foreclose opportunities?

Maybe to tippy top schools but that isn’t where you will be applying anyway. My oldest daughters college (top 50) had 7 suicides in 6 months. It is intense and what teen wants 4 years of continuous rigor and sleep deprivation to just go to a college with the same? She scaled back in college, went to a therapist weekly, and still graduated and thankfully has a great job. She knows many students who have deep 5 figures of student loans and couldn’t find jobs or have low paying jobs they hate. Many that dropped out. Changed majors or are taking 5+ years.

The push in our country for creating mechanical zombies as teens just to get into colleges, has got to stop.