150k/yr is bad now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

Who says you have to buy a house NOW? You’re not going to be homeless if you don’t buy a house – you can rent.

In many areas, prices took years to surpass the pre-bubble levels following the last housing crash. Maybe this won’t happen in Bethesda, but there will be many opportunities to buy houses at more attractive prices (or more attractive interest rates) in the ensuing years. All you drama queens are overwrought with your catastrophizing about current home prices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

Who says you have to buy a house NOW? You’re not going to be homeless if you don’t buy a house – you can rent.

In many areas, prices took years to surpass the pre-bubble levels following the last housing crash. Maybe this won’t happen in Bethesda, but there will be many opportunities to buy houses at more attractive prices (or more attractive interest rates) in the ensuing years. All you drama queens are overwrought with your catastrophizing about current home prices.

You’re assuming there will be a crash? Lol.

This isn’t about being homeless, obviously you’ll have a roof over your head making 150k. It’s about does 150k give you a good lifestyle for someone just starting out raising a family, the answer is no.

[Anonymous]

I'm single and rent a 480 sq ft, 1 bedroom apartment in Arlington and feel upper middle class at a salary of $160K and a net worth near $2M. I keep my expenses pretty low and probably live a middle class lifestyle on an upper middle class income. I've been really blessed to have such a high income and net worth and have been able to help friends out when they are in need and contribute significantly to my church and other charitable causes. I'm also a Federal employee, so I will be receiving a pension in about 15 years.

The only time I don't feel wealthy is when I look at housing prices around here. It's unlikely I will ever be able to buy a $1M "starter home" around here, but I could buy a 1BR or 2BR condo in the $300K to 500K range with all cash.

Bottom line: $160K and single is great. It would be tough supporting a wife and kids on that salary though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The cost of childcare in some states now exceeds the cost of some in state public colleges.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2023/09/25/cost-of-raising-a-child-college-tuition-car-childcare/70930351007/

I think both childcare and college should be subsidized heavily by the government, but I don’t understand why this is surprising. The cumulative hours a kid in daycare spends being cared for is probably 3-4x the amount a college kid spends in class!

Stop the insanity. The Federal government debt is $33 Trillion, for government to incur more obligations and increase spending is really reckless now. The fact that childcare costs and college costs have risen so much above inflation is shocking and disappointing. We have had so many societal changes in the past 30 years that have made raising a family very expensive in the US. I have no solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

150k is average household income around here. But what are you talking about? One person supporting a spouse and 2 kids? In that case, you can get by on 150 but you will definitely be making compromises. But if you are single, 150k is pretty damn good.

A couple of tips:
-Student loans are your fault, as you could have served in the military.
-You can buy a house further out, just like pretty much everyone else
- Don't have kids NOW
-Drive a beater

It sounds like you are trying to compete against people who are making way more money than you, which is a losers game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

150k is average household income around here. But what are you talking about? One person supporting a spouse and 2 kids? In that case, you can get by on 150 but you will definitely be making compromises. But if you are single, 150k is pretty damn good.

A couple of tips:
-Student loans are your fault, as you could have served in the military.
-You can buy a house further out, just like pretty much everyone else
- Don't have kids NOW
-Drive a beater

It sounds like you are trying to compete against people who are making way more money than you, which is a losers game.

Exactly, you proved my point. It’s not about complaining about how life is unfair, it’s saying that an average income around here isn’t adequate unless you have other secondary advantages like owning a home already or having family support. I own a home and have no student loans btw, and make significantly more than 150k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Biden has run the country into a ditch.

If you honestly believe this you understand absolutely nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

150k is average household income around here. But what are you talking about? One person supporting a spouse and 2 kids? In that case, you can get by on 150 but you will definitely be making compromises. But if you are single, 150k is pretty damn good.

A couple of tips:
-Student loans are your fault, as you could have served in the military.
-You can buy a house further out, just like pretty much everyone else
- Don't have kids NOW
-Drive a beater

It sounds like you are trying to compete against people who are making way more money than you, which is a losers game.

Exactly, you proved my point. It’s not about complaining about how life is unfair, it’s saying that an average income around here isn’t adequate unless you have other secondary advantages like owning a home already or having family support. I own a home and have no student loans btw, and make significantly more than 150k.

Your definition of middle class is closer to what most people would consider upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

We are a family of four in NoVA, one in HS one in college and live fine on a 120k/yr. We bought our house 15 years ago which helps, but we also earned less then.

[Anonymous]

According to the Post, my family income ($183,500) places me squarely at the 50th percentile, or middle class. So $150,000 is not UMC in this area.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2023/middle-class-income/

[Anonymous]

Oops, that should have read 60th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

Here's "the math trying to buy a house NOW:" $150K is $12,500 a month, 30% of $12,500 is $4,167, and a $4,167 a month mortgage means a $700,000 house.

You can get a 3BR+ $700,000 house NOW in Silver Spring, Wheaton, College Park, Hyattsville, Annandale, Falls Church, Shirlington, Springfield, and plenty of other neighborhoods. None of which are "nowhere near DC," and all of which are completely "good" and "acceptable" places to live.

Perhaps you should make a doctor's appointment to have the silver spoon removed from your mouth before you make any more stupid comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

Here's "the math trying to buy a house NOW:" $150K is $12,500 a month, 30% of $12,500 is $4,167, and a $4,167 a month mortgage means a $700,000 house.

You can get a 3BR+ $700,000 house NOW in Silver Spring, Wheaton, College Park, Hyattsville, Annandale, Falls Church, Shirlington, Springfield, and plenty of other neighborhoods. None of which are "nowhere near DC," and all of which are completely "good" and "acceptable" places to live.

Perhaps you should make a doctor's appointment to have the silver spoon removed from your mouth before you make any more stupid comments.

12,500 is gross. After taxes this is more like 9,000. Mortgage should not be 50% of take home! The most a person could afford on this salary is maybe 500k house. Max.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.

Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.

Everyone who thinks 150-200k is “good” or “acceptable” either already bought a house a while ago or is single or DINK, or they don’t live anywhere near DC.

Do the math trying to buy a house NOW, buying a car NOW, having kids NOW. Add student loans, add having zero help from family, add needing a second car, etc. 150k/yr doesn’t get you jack sh*t.

I have a relative who owns a home in moco and only makes 60k and they can get by just fine, to them 150k is rich. OH… but let’s not leave out that they bought their house 25 years ago, no kids to support (or spouse), and they save nothing every month.

Here's "the math trying to buy a house NOW:" $150K is $12,500 a month, 30% of $12,500 is $4,167, and a $4,167 a month mortgage means a $700,000 house.

You can get a 3BR+ $700,000 house NOW in Silver Spring, Wheaton, College Park, Hyattsville, Annandale, Falls Church, Shirlington, Springfield, and plenty of other neighborhoods. None of which are "nowhere near DC," and all of which are completely "good" and "acceptable" places to live.

Perhaps you should make a doctor's appointment to have the silver spoon removed from your mouth before you make any more stupid comments.

In silver spring MD your take home pay will be 8000/mo and a first time buyers with 150k salaries are not putting 20% down on 700k houses, that I can tell you (not without mom and dad help). 10% down gives you a 4600 payment and 5% gives you $4950. Add property tax/insurance/maintenance and you’re over 6k a month. Even with your overly optimistic numbers it wouldn’t work.