Maury Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Except that these numbers tell the story... There are more IB kids at SH (56 from Watkins, 29 from JOW & 27 from LT in the data) than in EH by a considerable margin in the class that the data is for; if EH's IB percentage is higher, it's just that EH can't attract kids through the lottery as well as SH can. That's not a good thing to be celebrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

The 19% of Maury families who don't have a Latin, BASIS or private escape hatch and are forced to stay and move within the feeder are pretty happy at EH.

Fixed it for you.

The point (in case you missed it) is that the idea is to make the feeder attractive, not a tolerable 4th option if all else fails.

There are plenty of UMC Maury families who know their kids couldn’t handle BASIS or Latin, and can’t afford private. EH is the right option for these kids.

Can’t handle Latin? What?

Latin is a rigorous school, and plenty of kids can’t handle that.

I know zero UMC Capitol Hill parents who consider Latin too rigorous for their child. Seriously. Zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

The 19% of Maury families who don't have a Latin, BASIS or private escape hatch and are forced to stay and move within the feeder are pretty happy at EH.

Fixed it for you.

The point (in case you missed it) is that the idea is to make the feeder attractive, not a tolerable 4th option if all else fails.

There are plenty of UMC Maury families who know their kids couldn’t handle BASIS or Latin, and can’t afford private. EH is the right option for these kids.

Can’t handle Latin? What?

Latin is a rigorous school, and plenty of kids can’t handle that.

I know zero UMC Capitol Hill parents who consider Latin too rigorous for their child. Seriously. Zero.

Sounds like you don't know enough people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Except that these numbers tell the story... There are more IB kids at SH (56 from Watkins, 29 from JOW & 27 from LT in the data) than in EH by a considerable margin in the class that the data is for; if EH's IB percentage is higher, it's just that EH can't attract kids through the lottery as well as SH can. That's not a good thing to be celebrated.

that’s a weird analysis and I’m not sure it holds true. I’m not sure what the point of trying to tear down EH’s obvious success is? the original point was NOT that SH is bad; but that being rezoned for SH is not the huge carrot it would have been a few years ago because EH is a stronger school with more feeder buy-in now. (Not only measured by IB % but also retention year over year.) It’s a great thing that there are now two decent DCPS MS on the Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

The 19% of Maury families who don't have a Latin, BASIS or private escape hatch and are forced to stay and move within the feeder are pretty happy at EH.

Fixed it for you.

The point (in case you missed it) is that the idea is to make the feeder attractive, not a tolerable 4th option if all else fails.

There are plenty of UMC Maury families who know their kids couldn’t handle BASIS or Latin, and can’t afford private. EH is the right option for these kids.

Can’t handle Latin? What?

Latin is a rigorous school, and plenty of kids can’t handle that.

I know zero UMC Capitol Hill parents who consider Latin too rigorous for their child. Seriously. Zero.

Sounds like you don't know enough people.

I am very involved at a Hill DCPS and have a kid who have just gone through the 4th to 5th shuffle and a kid who is about to. I am extremely confident that thinking Latin is too rigorous is not a widespread phenomena for UMC Capitol Hill families. BASIS? Absolutely. Latin? Not at all. (Some families don't want Latin for other perfectly good reasons including commute... so I don't mean to suggest it's everyone's dream school; but, in fact, I know considerably more families who ranked BASIS over Latin because of a perceived lack of rigor at Latin than who decided to go with their IB because they felt Latin was too rigorous. In fact, most families comfortable with going with our IB are comfortable because their kid is a solid student.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Except that these numbers tell the story... There are more IB kids at SH (56 from Watkins, 29 from JOW & 27 from LT in the data) than in EH by a considerable margin in the class that the data is for; if EH's IB percentage is higher, it's just that EH can't attract kids through the lottery as well as SH can. That's not a good thing to be celebrated.

that’s a weird analysis and I’m not sure it holds true. I’m not sure what the point of trying to tear down EH’s obvious success is? the original point was NOT that SH is bad; but that being rezoned for SH is not the huge carrot it would have been a few years ago because EH is a stronger school with more feeder buy-in now. (Not only measured by IB % but also retention year over year.) It’s a great thing that there are now two decent DCPS MS on the Hill.

I was only responding to the idea that EH was better than SH because it had a higher IB percentage, which is what someone suggested upthread. Because EH doesn't fill via the lottery and SH has a waiting list, that analysis is obviously silly. SH has both more IB families and a greater percentage capture of IB families; EH has a higher IB percentage because OOB folks don't want to go. It is what it is. If they're retaining the families they do get well, that's fantastic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Except that these numbers tell the story... There are more IB kids at SH (56 from Watkins, 29 from JOW & 27 from LT in the data) than in EH by a considerable margin in the class that the data is for; if EH's IB percentage is higher, it's just that EH can't attract kids through the lottery as well as SH can. That's not a good thing to be celebrated.

that’s a weird analysis and I’m not sure it holds true. I’m not sure what the point of trying to tear down EH’s obvious success is? the original point was NOT that SH is bad; but that being rezoned for SH is not the huge carrot it would have been a few years ago because EH is a stronger school with more feeder buy-in now. (Not only measured by IB % but also retention year over year.) It’s a great thing that there are now two decent DCPS MS on the Hill.

I was only responding to the idea that EH was better than SH because it had a higher IB percentage, which is what someone suggested upthread. Because EH doesn't fill via the lottery and SH has a waiting list, that analysis is obviously silly. SH has both more IB families and a greater percentage capture of IB families; EH has a higher IB percentage because OOB folks don't want to go. It is what it is. If they're retaining the families they do get well, that's fantastic.

Where do you get the statistic that SH gets a greater percentage of IB families? And some OOB families do want EH - it’s just not the “right” ones per your viewpoint. Also EH is more than full this year for 6th. Can we please just stop this though- the clear fact is that Maury-zoned parents are not fighting en masse to get the SH feed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Out of those 27 Maury kids, how many were white? Maury's 5th-grade classes are much more diverse than the lower grades.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Except that these numbers tell the story... There are more IB kids at SH (56 from Watkins, 29 from JOW & 27 from LT in the data) than in EH by a considerable margin in the class that the data is for; if EH's IB percentage is higher, it's just that EH can't attract kids through the lottery as well as SH can. That's not a good thing to be celebrated.

that’s a weird analysis and I’m not sure it holds true. I’m not sure what the point of trying to tear down EH’s obvious success is? the original point was NOT that SH is bad; but that being rezoned for SH is not the huge carrot it would have been a few years ago because EH is a stronger school with more feeder buy-in now. (Not only measured by IB % but also retention year over year.) It’s a great thing that there are now two decent DCPS MS on the Hill.

I was only responding to the idea that EH was better than SH because it had a higher IB percentage, which is what someone suggested upthread. Because EH doesn't fill via the lottery and SH has a waiting list, that analysis is obviously silly. SH has both more IB families and a greater percentage capture of IB families; EH has a higher IB percentage because OOB folks don't want to go. It is what it is. If they're retaining the families they do get well, that's fantastic.

Where do you get the statistic that SH gets a greater percentage of IB families? And some OOB families do want EH - it’s just not the “right” ones per your viewpoint. Also EH is more than full this year for 6th. Can we please just stop this though- the clear fact is that Maury-zoned parents are not fighting en masse to get the SH feed.

The boundary participation rate (percentage of grade specific kids in the boundary that go to the school) for SH was 38.6% for the 21-22 school year; EH was 26.9%. 37 kids in the EH boundary went to SH; if SH kids went to EH it was below the reporting threshold (9 or fewer). https://dme.dc.gov/page/sy2021-22-public-school-enrollments-dcps-boundary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Except that these numbers tell the story... There are more IB kids at SH (56 from Watkins, 29 from JOW & 27 from LT in the data) than in EH by a considerable margin in the class that the data is for; if EH's IB percentage is higher, it's just that EH can't attract kids through the lottery as well as SH can. That's not a good thing to be celebrated.

that’s a weird analysis and I’m not sure it holds true. I’m not sure what the point of trying to tear down EH’s obvious success is? the original point was NOT that SH is bad; but that being rezoned for SH is not the huge carrot it would have been a few years ago because EH is a stronger school with more feeder buy-in now. (Not only measured by IB % but also retention year over year.) It’s a great thing that there are now two decent DCPS MS on the Hill.

I was only responding to the idea that EH was better than SH because it had a higher IB percentage, which is what someone suggested upthread. Because EH doesn't fill via the lottery and SH has a waiting list, that analysis is obviously silly. SH has both more IB families and a greater percentage capture of IB families; EH has a higher IB percentage because OOB folks don't want to go. It is what it is. If they're retaining the families they do get well, that's fantastic.

Where do you get the statistic that SH gets a greater percentage of IB families? And some OOB families do want EH - it’s just not the “right” ones per your viewpoint. Also EH is more than full this year for 6th. Can we please just stop this though- the clear fact is that Maury-zoned parents are not fighting en masse to get the SH feed.

The boundary participation rate (percentage of grade specific kids in the boundary that go to the school) for SH was 38.6% for the 21-22 school year; EH was 26.9%. 37 kids in the EH boundary went to SH; if SH kids went to EH it was below the reporting threshold (9 or fewer). https://dme.dc.gov/page/sy2021-22-public-school-enrollments-dcps-boundary

While I get that people are trying to measure neighborhood 'buy-in' by quoting these stats, there are so many variables in DC education that it gets hard to paint an easy clear picture. For example, if I am reading it right, those percentages are only for people who live in boundary and attend that middle school - that does not take into account kids who may have attended a feeder school with proximity preference or attended in bounds and then moved but stayed at the school. I know due to the cluster school boundary shape, there are some families who attend schools 'out of bounds' and cross into a different feeder pattern that way. And then there is so much school choice in our city, if I am reading the websites correctly, middle school aged children in the SH boundary attended 47 different DC public (charter or DCPS) schools last year, and 59 different schools in the EH boundary.
The spreadsheets also have a column to show not just what % of kids in a boundary go to a school, but also what % of an enrolled school population lives in that boundary. And if you look at it that way, the numbers are flipped. In the 22-23 year, 25.9% of the students at Stuart Hobson came from their boundary, whereas 43.5% of the students enrolled at Eliot Hine came from in boundary. Again, I think this should all be taken with a grain of salt, because kids who attend feeder schools come from all over, and may move, etc.
I found the 2022-2023 data here, in case anybody else likes data https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/SY2223_Public%20School%20Enrollments%20per%20DCPS%20Boundary.xlsx

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Except that these numbers tell the story... There are more IB kids at SH (56 from Watkins, 29 from JOW & 27 from LT in the data) than in EH by a considerable margin in the class that the data is for; if EH's IB percentage is higher, it's just that EH can't attract kids through the lottery as well as SH can. That's not a good thing to be celebrated.

that’s a weird analysis and I’m not sure it holds true. I’m not sure what the point of trying to tear down EH’s obvious success is? the original point was NOT that SH is bad; but that being rezoned for SH is not the huge carrot it would have been a few years ago because EH is a stronger school with more feeder buy-in now. (Not only measured by IB % but also retention year over year.) It’s a great thing that there are now two decent DCPS MS on the Hill.

I was only responding to the idea that EH was better than SH because it had a higher IB percentage, which is what someone suggested upthread. Because EH doesn't fill via the lottery and SH has a waiting list, that analysis is obviously silly. SH has both more IB families and a greater percentage capture of IB families; EH has a higher IB percentage because OOB folks don't want to go. It is what it is. If they're retaining the families they do get well, that's fantastic.

Where do you get the statistic that SH gets a greater percentage of IB families? And some OOB families do want EH - it’s just not the “right” ones per your viewpoint. Also EH is more than full this year for 6th. Can we please just stop this though- the clear fact is that Maury-zoned parents are not fighting en masse to get the SH feed.

The boundary participation rate (percentage of grade specific kids in the boundary that go to the school) for SH was 38.6% for the 21-22 school year; EH was 26.9%. 37 kids in the EH boundary went to SH; if SH kids went to EH it was below the reporting threshold (9 or fewer). https://dme.dc.gov/page/sy2021-22-public-school-enrollments-dcps-boundary

thanks for those stats. I expect to see a big y-o-y increase for 2022-2023 and 2023-2024 for EH.

[Anonymous]

I don't know why people are getting caught up in a SH/EH war. Shouldn't we be supporting both schools?

[Anonymous]

I was pointing out that IB percentage for an underenrolled school isn't meaningful. Another poster took that as a direct attack on EH. It wasn't meant to be. It's simply a fact. Look at the IB percentages in Ward 8. They're almost uniformly high because no one wants to attend them and so only IB kids who don't win -- or know to enter -- the lottery are stuck there. Of course it's not anywhere near as extreme at EH, but the fact remains that it is well under capacity which causes it to have an artificially high IB percentage.

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the Maury boundary would move further East if TPTB thinks the present boundary is over-gentrified. Maybe the people who need to worry are those on the western side of the Maury boundary.

There is nowhere for Maury's eastern boundary to go -- it runs to RFK. More likely they'd look at shifting the northern and southern boundaries. Though I think if there are shifts, you would see the western border move. It would be contentious though because Maury already sits towards the western end -- if you eliminate some of this blocks to the west of Lincoln Park from it's boundary, you will be shifting people who paid a major premium to be not only near Maury but near the park and Eastern Market. And they would likely be shifted to a school significantly further away, since Ludlow-Taylor already has a very large boundary and is pretty full. Unless you moved part of the L-T boundary up to JOW.

It gets very, very messy very quickly. Which is why if there's a redraw, it is likely to be quite minor. But you still might wind up with some unhappy folks.

The most natural change to the Maury boundary would be to flatten the top of the boundary and steal Miner's "tail." Pushing up the northern boundary of Maury a block or two at the Western end would have very little effect on demographics (unless you also bumped up the tail), since you'd carveout some of the gentrified L-T zone and a sliver of the most gentrified part of the Miner zone. You could shift the bottom part of the Maury boundary north in compensation & send those kids to Payne, but I'm not sure that has a huge effect on anything except moving a few very wealthy families to a school they may or may not use.

One thing to keep in mind is that both of the L-T & Maury districts are pretty narrow North-to-South. Look at the map and where Maury and L-T are stacked on top of each other is just East Capitol to H St... all of which is heavily gentrified central Hill. There's nowhere to go for non-gentrified real estate in that swath.

You can't give much of the L-T boundary to JOW by the way, because L-T is only a block from the Northern edge of the boundary... and the whole boundary is only from north of D to H; it's actually really narrow already. (Also, it goes unsaid that affected families would freak out entirely. There are many, many heavily involved L-T families on those blocks.) Unlike what the PP said, L-T is actually a small boundary... among the smallest in the area. But the school is full, so making it bigger would just mean weeding out OOB kids and with an IB rate approaching 2/3rds, I can't see why DCPS would back that either.

What you could do is move the Western edge of the Maury boundary to Watkins. Parents would freak out. As with the shift to Payne, it's taking the wealthiest families out of the zone and zoning them to somewhere they won't like as much. I think parents might balk even more, because there's a sense Payne is on the upswing with solid leadership and Watkins is very much the reverse.

Some might freak out. Others would be glad for the opportunity to attend Stuart-Hobson instead of Eliot-Hine.

This^.

Not really. Maury families are pretty happy at EH.

Stuart-Hobson is the preferred choice for most.

Agree. Maury has been doing a great job driving the lottery left behind families to EH as of late, but don't pretend they wouldn't cheer if they were suddenly rezoned to SH.

I think your information is about 10 years out of date …

I mean less than 10 years ago EH was on the list of the 10 worst schools in DC. So yeah, I guess things have improved since then. I still stand by what I said. The Maury mafia lobbies hard for EH because they don’t want peel offs, and it’s impressive. If the whole school were rezoned for SH though, they’d still be happy. Even if just for the much superior arts programs. EH has come a long way in a short time and Maury families deserve a lot of the credit. Still SH has a substantial number of families IB for EH and the reverse isn’t true… which isn’t surprising.

there is no “Maury Mafia” - just people who want to stay in the neighborhood and who are inclined to support whatever school their kid attends. So yes, if the whole school were rezoned to SH they’d also be supporting SH.

and BTW the inbound percentage at EH is actually much higher now than SH (40% vs 28%) and will likely be even higher at EH this year as I understand it is a big 6th grade class.

Comparing IB percentages as an indicator of UMC buy-in doesn’t really work when (1) one of the schools has Miner as a feeder and (2) isn’t full/ran through its waiting list. There are plenty of schools in Ward 8 with a high IB percentage; it’s not always a good thing.

IB percentage does mean something, but another interesting piece of data is the enrollment pathways here on Edscape - https://edscape.dc.gov/page/student-enrollment-pathways This is for the 2022-2023 school year, I am not sure when they will update it with this year's data. This page talks about all schools, but since this thread is talking about EH and Stuart, you can see where the kids came from. Last year there were less than 10 kids from Maury, Payne and Miner each that went to Stuart Hobson, so we don't know exact numbers. As for EH, in last year's 6th grade class there were 27 from Maury, 17 from Miner, and 12 from Payne. The earlier poster was correct that there is a bigger 6th grade class this year, because I think about 30 kids came from Payne, which hasn't happened in recent years - not sure about numbers from other schools. And the conversation about which schools are full/not full is also a bit more nuanced - schools hire teachers and plan for the year based on projections made the prior year. I am not sure about Stuart Hobson, but I know about 25 more kids arrived in 6th grade at EH than were projected, so they needed to do a little reshuffling, even though on paper they may not look at capacity/full.

Except that these numbers tell the story... There are more IB kids at SH (56 from Watkins, 29 from JOW & 27 from LT in the data) than in EH by a considerable margin in the class that the data is for; if EH's IB percentage is higher, it's just that EH can't attract kids through the lottery as well as SH can. That's not a good thing to be celebrated.

that’s a weird analysis and I’m not sure it holds true. I’m not sure what the point of trying to tear down EH’s obvious success is? the original point was NOT that SH is bad; but that being rezoned for SH is not the huge carrot it would have been a few years ago because EH is a stronger school with more feeder buy-in now. (Not only measured by IB % but also retention year over year.) It’s a great thing that there are now two decent DCPS MS on the Hill.

I was only responding to the idea that EH was better than SH because it had a higher IB percentage, which is what someone suggested upthread. Because EH doesn't fill via the lottery and SH has a waiting list, that analysis is obviously silly. SH has both more IB families and a greater percentage capture of IB families; EH has a higher IB percentage because OOB folks don't want to go. It is what it is. If they're retaining the families they do get well, that's fantastic.

Where do you get the statistic that SH gets a greater percentage of IB families? And some OOB families do want EH - it’s just not the “right” ones per your viewpoint. Also EH is more than full this year for 6th. Can we please just stop this though- the clear fact is that Maury-zoned parents are not fighting en masse to get the SH feed.

The boundary participation rate (percentage of grade specific kids in the boundary that go to the school) for SH was 38.6% for the 21-22 school year; EH was 26.9%. 37 kids in the EH boundary went to SH; if SH kids went to EH it was below the reporting threshold (9 or fewer). https://dme.dc.gov/page/sy2021-22-public-school-enrollments-dcps-boundary

thanks for those stats. I expect to see a big y-o-y increase for 2022-2023 and 2023-2024 for EH.

It really depends on the lottery too. I think most people enter it. Some years there are more Maury winners, other years more LT or JO winners. Losers go to their IB shifting the numbers and percentages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was pointing out that IB percentage for an underenrolled school isn't meaningful. Another poster took that as a direct attack on EH. It wasn't meant to be. It's simply a fact. Look at the IB percentages in Ward 8. They're almost uniformly high because no one wants to attend them and so only IB kids who don't win -- or know to enter -- the lottery are stuck there. Of course it's not anywhere near as extreme at EH, but the fact remains that it is well under capacity which causes it to have an artificially high IB percentage.

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