Arlington magazine - Public school exodus cover

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. [google]There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.[b]

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

Exactly. People misrepresenting probably don’t even have kids in APS.

Did you see the link I posted regarding writing at APS. We need to stop denying that there are issues. Most grads are unprepared for college. This is a country wide issue and Arlington is not immune.

I was just going to comment that this is an issue far beyond Arlington, far beyond Virginia, and likely has to do with the abysmal misguided national spell-it-like-you-guess-it philosophy (aka Lucy Calkins) that's now (thankfully) being abandoned. My youngest is learning to spell and write correctly.

+1

Fortunately, many districts, including APS, are moving towards science of reading.

They are learning how to spell and how to read but not necessarily how to write. Writing instruction has improved with the introduction of CKLA in elementary schools but there are still improvements that need to made. The ELA team in the central office recognizes this but it takes a while to implement change and to train teachers. Also because teachers are dealing with so many behavioral issues post Covid (either because of Covid era after effects or because admin doesn’t back teachers up when it comes to discipline) many teachers don’t have the bandwidth for teacher training and the adoption of new resources. So changes will take a while.

PP. also the bigger issue is middle school and high school. Kids are entering middle and high school with weak writing skills because they were never taught how to write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. [google]There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.[b]

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

Exactly. People misrepresenting probably don’t even have kids in APS.

Did you see the link I posted regarding writing at APS. We need to stop denying that there are issues. Most grads are unprepared for college. This is a country wide issue and Arlington is not immune.

I was just going to comment that this is an issue far beyond Arlington, far beyond Virginia, and likely has to do with the abysmal misguided national spell-it-like-you-guess-it philosophy (aka Lucy Calkins) that's now (thankfully) being abandoned. My youngest is learning to spell and write correctly.

Joe Feldman is new Lucy Calkins. Well intentioned but misguided and lacks any rigorous evidence basis but it sure sounds great in theory. Look him up. APS hired his company as a consultant on all the new equity initiatives.

+1

[Anonymous]

I think that evaluation of math skills in elementary has gone waaaay downhill since COVID. Kids used to take actual math tests on paper. They could get partial credit by showing their work. Now every math test is on the iPad, there is no partial credit, and many of the offered tests have major errors.

Last year I asked to see one of the tests after my daughter failed it and it was riddled with errors in the questions. Shockingly bad. The teacher hasn't even looked at the questions and just recorded the scores. After all, it was the official test software supplied by APS and was supposed to mimic the SOL. Why wouldn't it be correct? Unfortunately, it's total crap.

All classroom unit math tests should be on paper. Partial credit should be available if you show your work. That's how teachers learn where students have gaps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. [google]There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.[b]

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

Exactly. People misrepresenting probably don’t even have kids in APS.

Did you see the link I posted regarding writing at APS. We need to stop denying that there are issues. Most grads are unprepared for college. This is a country wide issue and Arlington is not immune.

I was just going to comment that this is an issue far beyond Arlington, far beyond Virginia, and likely has to do with the abysmal misguided national spell-it-like-you-guess-it philosophy (aka Lucy Calkins) that's now (thankfully) being abandoned. My youngest is learning to spell and write correctly.

My dyslexic kid had the misfortune of going through elementary school at APS while Lucy Calkins was the norm. Ugh.

+1. The kid was never taught phonics. We're playing catch up. And not with APS anymore.

[Anonymous]

You are all completely unhinged. I’m sorry. But it’s true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high school student hasn't done much in terms of research papers. I do worry about what that means in college.

I definitely remember writing research papers before college, but I was also taught how to make an actual outline. Somewhere along the way, having study skills be an actual independent class that every student had to take went away. Our kids are struggling because of this.

My personal belief is that they will still be able to succeed just fine in college; but they will have a learning curve at the beginning much steeper than they otherwise would. Colleges are well aware that students are coming out of high school less/ill-prepared for college writing. There will be introductory ENG classes where, hopefully, they get caught up; and there are often writing support efforts for those who need extra help learning to write at the college level.

NOVA has an intro ENG course required for all students, as well as a class about basic study skills, etc. I don't think that's entirely unique to NOVA. The fact that even a community college needs to require a student skills class for its students speaks volumes about what our high schools are producing and allowing to graduate.

That's nice and for wealthy students you are right and they can will have time and energy and parent urging to go get help and even pay for tutoring or private essay coaching.

But look at Wakefield. They churn out students who can't read very well and they certainly can't write very well but they manage to get along and they get A's in high school so by all accounts it looks like they are going to be fine in college. Except they get there and they don't. And many of those kids have more limited resources one of them being time. If you are a college student who needs to work and every single class requires some degree of reading and writing and it's struggle to do that then add in doing that for 5 classes and guess what you get? A kid who drops out before fall break. But that's ok because APS can brag about the students that get admitted to college. It doesn't matter that they aren't capable of doing the work to stay there bc their high school education was so lacking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just can't get super worked up about this. A bunch of things going on. A huge factor is Arlington is getting wealthier and wealthier. More people CAN afford private school than ever before. Covid, some left and won't ever come back. And yes, the equity dog whistle. There is a lot of misrepresentation I see on this board about how there is no homework (not true), no one is allowed to fail any more (not true), everyone gets an A (not true), no rigorous content for more advanced students (not true), blah, blah. High school is plenty rigorous in APS if your student is capable and on that track. Intensified content is back in middle school. And if you want your kid pulled out for gifted services in APS, well we never did that so move to Fairfax and enjoy all that comes with that.

Many kids are still going public in Arlington and my genuine reaction is I'm glad for anyone to leave. More space for my kids and I hope it siphons off the more extreme wealth, which I don't want my kids around anyway.

We’re not extremely wealthy. Certainly not wealthy enough to afford $50K per child for private school.

There’s a not small number of families who’ve opted to homeschool. There are so many rigorous, secular options now.

We aren’t trying to avoid race and gender issues (many of us make sure to incorporate those into our studies). We’re concerned with lack of rigor and enormous class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high school student hasn't done much in terms of research papers. I do worry about what that means in college.

I definitely remember writing research papers before college, but I was also taught how to make an actual outline. Somewhere along the way, having study skills be an actual independent class that every student had to take went away. Our kids are struggling because of this.

My personal belief is that they will still be able to succeed just fine in college; but they will have a learning curve at the beginning much steeper than they otherwise would. Colleges are well aware that students are coming out of high school less/ill-prepared for college writing. There will be introductory ENG classes where, hopefully, they get caught up; and there are often writing support efforts for those who need extra help learning to write at the college level.

NOVA has an intro ENG course required for all students, as well as a class about basic study skills, etc. I don't think that's entirely unique to NOVA. The fact that even a community college needs to require a student skills class for its students speaks volumes about what our high schools are producing and allowing to graduate.

That's nice and for wealthy students you are right and they can will have time and energy and parent urging to go get help and even pay for tutoring or private essay coaching.

But look at Wakefield. They churn out students who can't read very well and they certainly can't write very well but they manage to get along and they get A's in high school so by all accounts it looks like they are going to be fine in college. Except they get there and they don't. And many of those kids have more limited resources one of them being time. If you are a college student who needs to work and every single class requires some degree of reading and writing and it's struggle to do that then add in doing that for 5 classes and guess what you get? A kid who drops out before fall break. But that's ok because APS can brag about the students that get admitted to college. It doesn't matter that they aren't capable of doing the work to stay there bc their high school education was so lacking.

Yeah I was a poor kid at an elite school. I worked 15 hrs week in a work study job (dining services because it paid more than library jobs), had to bike or walk everywhere for basic errands (haircuts were a 3 bus trip), and didn’t even know my writing was bad until near end of semester when it was too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high school student hasn't done much in terms of research papers. I do worry about what that means in college.

I definitely remember writing research papers before college, but I was also taught how to make an actual outline. Somewhere along the way, having study skills be an actual independent class that every student had to take went away. Our kids are struggling because of this.

My personal belief is that they will still be able to succeed just fine in college; but they will have a learning curve at the beginning much steeper than they otherwise would. Colleges are well aware that students are coming out of high school less/ill-prepared for college writing. There will be introductory ENG classes where, hopefully, they get caught up; and there are often writing support efforts for those who need extra help learning to write at the college level.

NOVA has an intro ENG course required for all students, as well as a class about basic study skills, etc. I don't think that's entirely unique to NOVA. The fact that even a community college needs to require a student skills class for its students speaks volumes about what our high schools are producing and allowing to graduate.

That's nice and for wealthy students you are right and they can will have time and energy and parent urging to go get help and even pay for tutoring or private essay coaching.

But look at Wakefield. They churn out students who can't read very well and they certainly can't write very well but they manage to get along and they get A's in high school so by all accounts it looks like they are going to be fine in college. Except they get there and they don't. And many of those kids have more limited resources one of them being time. If you are a college student who needs to work and every single class requires some degree of reading and writing and it's struggle to do that then add in doing that for 5 classes and guess what you get? A kid who drops out before fall break. But that's ok because APS can brag about the students that get admitted to college. It doesn't matter that they aren't capable of doing the work to stay there bc their high school education was so lacking.

Yeah I was a poor kid at an elite school. I worked 15 hrs week in a work study job (dining services because it paid more than library jobs), had to bike or walk everywhere for basic errands (haircuts were a 3 bus trip), and didn’t even know my writing was bad until near end of semester when it was too late.

And did you overcome it or quit by fall break and never return?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high school student hasn't done much in terms of research papers. I do worry about what that means in college.

I definitely remember writing research papers before college, but I was also taught how to make an actual outline. Somewhere along the way, having study skills be an actual independent class that every student had to take went away. Our kids are struggling because of this.

My personal belief is that they will still be able to succeed just fine in college; but they will have a learning curve at the beginning much steeper than they otherwise would. Colleges are well aware that students are coming out of high school less/ill-prepared for college writing. There will be introductory ENG classes where, hopefully, they get caught up; and there are often writing support efforts for those who need extra help learning to write at the college level.

NOVA has an intro ENG course required for all students, as well as a class about basic study skills, etc. I don't think that's entirely unique to NOVA. The fact that even a community college needs to require a student skills class for its students speaks volumes about what our high schools are producing and allowing to graduate.

That's nice and for wealthy students you are right and they can will have time and energy and parent urging to go get help and even pay for tutoring or private essay coaching.

But look at Wakefield. They churn out students who can't read very well and they certainly can't write very well but they manage to get along and they get A's in high school so by all accounts it looks like they are going to be fine in college. Except they get there and they don't. And many of those kids have more limited resources one of them being time. If you are a college student who needs to work and every single class requires some degree of reading and writing and it's struggle to do that then add in doing that for 5 classes and guess what you get? A kid who drops out before fall break. But that's ok because APS can brag about the students that get admitted to college. It doesn't matter that they aren't capable of doing the work to stay there bc their high school education was so lacking.

Yeah I was a poor kid at an elite school. I worked 15 hrs week in a work study job (dining services because it paid more than library jobs), had to bike or walk everywhere for basic errands (haircuts were a 3 bus trip), and didn’t even know my writing was bad until near end of semester when it was too late.

And did you overcome it or quit by fall break and never return?

I barely graduated and had a miserable college experience and was unable to head to med school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:APS suffers from the same types of problems most school districts suffer from. Portraying APS as an outlier is misleading. Closing schools during covid and forbidding new content in the first few months - that was a pretty epic fail. Now that we’re back in person, though, it’s basically what it’s always been. If your kid doesn’t have a learning disability, picked up reading naturally, and has parental support / encouragement, the school system has a lot to offer. If your kid has a learning disability, lots of parents report inadequate services and accommodations from APS. The quality of the education isn’t tied up in zealous liberal ideology - that’s crazy pants fantastical thinking that sounds like a rant you might hear at a nationally televised school board meeting in Loudon County. We have one kid in private and one in APS and it’s fine.

This is why we're not in APS anymore. Teachers not even attempting to follow 504 plan even after repeatedly reaching out. Just an awful experience. So glad to not be dealing with this anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that evaluation of math skills in elementary has gone waaaay downhill since COVID. Kids used to take actual math tests on paper. They could get partial credit by showing their work. Now every math test is on the iPad, there is no partial credit, and many of the offered tests have major errors.

Last year I asked to see one of the tests after my daughter failed it and it was riddled with errors in the questions. Shockingly bad. The teacher hasn't even looked at the questions and just recorded the scores. After all, it was the official test software supplied by APS and was supposed to mimic the SOL. Why wouldn't it be correct? Unfortunately, it's total crap.

All classroom unit math tests should be on paper. Partial credit should be available if you show your work. That's how teachers learn where students have gaps.

Yes I recall you posting about this incessantly last year. Time to get a new soapbox.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that evaluation of math skills in elementary has gone waaaay downhill since COVID. Kids used to take actual math tests on paper. They could get partial credit by showing their work. Now every math test is on the iPad, there is no partial credit, and many of the offered tests have major errors.

Last year I asked to see one of the tests after my daughter failed it and it was riddled with errors in the questions. Shockingly bad. The teacher hasn't even looked at the questions and just recorded the scores. After all, it was the official test software supplied by APS and was supposed to mimic the SOL. Why wouldn't it be correct? Unfortunately, it's total crap.

All classroom unit math tests should be on paper. Partial credit should be available if you show your work. That's how teachers learn where students have gaps.

Yes I recall you posting about this incessantly last year. Time to get a new soapbox.

Seems like a legitimate concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high school student hasn't done much in terms of research papers. I do worry about what that means in college.

I definitely remember writing research papers before college, but I was also taught how to make an actual outline. Somewhere along the way, having study skills be an actual independent class that every student had to take went away. Our kids are struggling because of this.

My personal belief is that they will still be able to succeed just fine in college; but they will have a learning curve at the beginning much steeper than they otherwise would. Colleges are well aware that students are coming out of high school less/ill-prepared for college writing. There will be introductory ENG classes where, hopefully, they get caught up; and there are often writing support efforts for those who need extra help learning to write at the college level.

NOVA has an intro ENG course required for all students, as well as a class about basic study skills, etc. I don't think that's entirely unique to NOVA. The fact that even a community college needs to require a student skills class for its students speaks volumes about what our high schools are producing and allowing to graduate.

That's nice and for wealthy students you are right and they can will have time and energy and parent urging to go get help and even pay for tutoring or private essay coaching.

But look at Wakefield. They churn out students who can't read very well and they certainly can't write very well but they manage to get along and they get A's in high school so by all accounts it looks like they are going to be fine in college. Except they get there and they don't. And many of those kids have more limited resources one of them being time. If you are a college student who needs to work and every single class requires some degree of reading and writing and it's struggle to do that then add in doing that for 5 classes and guess what you get? A kid who drops out before fall break. But that's ok because APS can brag about the students that get admitted to college. It doesn't matter that they aren't capable of doing the work to stay there bc their high school education was so lacking.

Please share with us the actual data that you have that shows that Wakefield students “by all accounts look like they are going to do fine in college” but “they get there and they don’t.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My high school student hasn't done much in terms of research papers. I do worry about what that means in college.

I definitely remember writing research papers before college, but I was also taught how to make an actual outline. Somewhere along the way, having study skills be an actual independent class that every student had to take went away. Our kids are struggling because of this.

My personal belief is that they will still be able to succeed just fine in college; but they will have a learning curve at the beginning much steeper than they otherwise would. Colleges are well aware that students are coming out of high school less/ill-prepared for college writing. There will be introductory ENG classes where, hopefully, they get caught up; and there are often writing support efforts for those who need extra help learning to write at the college level.

NOVA has an intro ENG course required for all students, as well as a class about basic study skills, etc. I don't think that's entirely unique to NOVA. The fact that even a community college needs to require a student skills class for its students speaks volumes about what our high schools are producing and allowing to graduate.

That's nice and for wealthy students you are right and they can will have time and energy and parent urging to go get help and even pay for tutoring or private essay coaching.

But look at Wakefield. They churn out students who can't read very well and they certainly can't write very well but they manage to get along and they get A's in high school so by all accounts it looks like they are going to be fine in college. Except they get there and they don't. And many of those kids have more limited resources one of them being time. If you are a college student who needs to work and every single class requires some degree of reading and writing and it's struggle to do that then add in doing that for 5 classes and guess what you get? A kid who drops out before fall break. But that's ok because APS can brag about the students that get admitted to college. It doesn't matter that they aren't capable of doing the work to stay there bc their high school education was so lacking.

Yeah I was a poor kid at an elite school. I worked 15 hrs week in a work study job (dining services because it paid more than library jobs), had to bike or walk everywhere for basic errands (haircuts were a 3 bus trip), and didn’t even know my writing was bad until near end of semester when it was too late.

And did you overcome it or quit by fall break and never return?

I barely graduated and had a miserable college experience and was unable to head to med school.

Because at the end of your first semester you were a poor writer?

Are you mad at your college for not letting you know sooner that your writing wasn't up to snuff?