Missing middle- Arlington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure I’ll regret asking, but I was a little surprised to see all the 4 and 6 plexes in the Arl Now article. I expected duplexes and 3 unit townhomes to dominate.

Anyone have the scoop on these plexes? Are they all 1 bedrooms and mostly going to be rentals? I’m curious.

Why would you expect anything different?

All SFH are now buildable lots.

Maximizing profits (or penalty for the opportunity cost) you use your allotment.

Moreover because this is all custom, high cost, there aren’t many people who can afford a SFH rent or own, so singles it goes to bring down the unit price.

Then consider that the homes prioritized for this development are at the bottom of the market (entry level homes) which raises the barrier to entry and creates pressure on the remaining market.

Everything about this scam works against affordability and homeownership.

+1
Arlingtonians got played.

Nope, their progressiveness just caught up with them and their ballots. They think they want this, they voted for this under the guise of affordable housing and now it's in their own front yards. It's kinda laughable to watch the heads explode.

The majority of our 22207/22213 neighborhoods (most of which are liberal) did not want this.

I disagree. I'm in 22207, and I'd rather have missing middle than the status quo. If we could go back to a time where people weren't allowed to build 3 story houses on basically the entirety of their lots, that's what I want. But we can't go back. Infrastructure is a concern, sure, but as it is, I'm fairly certain that many homeowners skirt the requirement to upgrade pipes if they have a certain number of toilets. I don't know for sure, I'm only surmising based on the absence of dug up front yards when building an addition.

You are an owner?

Can you explain why you’d prefer this? Seems that you’ve had a huge growth in property value over time…and now you’d prefer that someone build a six plex next door, with the accompanying cars, children, and dogs? And all without required off street parking?

I find this hard to believe unless you are just a masochist.

Yes, I am an owner. I will address your points in turn.

(1) Property value growth: I don't see how this decreases my property value. My house likely will be a teardown in any event (it's a perfectly nice house, that's just the way the wind is blowing). A developer will pay more to build more. And if I time the sale when a next-door neighbor sells, even better.

(2) Cars, children, dogs: Many of my current neighbors have more cars than people living in the house, despite the fact that my house is near public transportation. By contrast, a young couple who just moved into the neighborhood share a car. Young couples are the likelier demographic for multi-family, so I don't see there being vastly more cars. Only time will tell how Gen Z approaches parenthood (I can see 2 of my 3 children choosing to forgo parenthood), so the children aspect is a question mark. There will definitely be more dogs.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're taking into account what your property value could be in a neighborhood zoned exclusively for SFH versus a neighborhood zoned for MMH. Will your property value likely increase in either case? Yes. However, will your property value increase at the same rate under both zoning proposals? No, I don't think so. It's ok for you, personally, to accept the diminished return but I wouldn't expect your neighbors to be happy about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure I’ll regret asking, but I was a little surprised to see all the 4 and 6 plexes in the Arl Now article. I expected duplexes and 3 unit townhomes to dominate.

Anyone have the scoop on these plexes? Are they all 1 bedrooms and mostly going to be rentals? I’m curious.

Why would you expect anything different?

All SFH are now buildable lots.

Maximizing profits (or penalty for the opportunity cost) you use your allotment.

Moreover because this is all custom, high cost, there aren’t many people who can afford a SFH rent or own, so singles it goes to bring down the unit price.

Then consider that the homes prioritized for this development are at the bottom of the market (entry level homes) which raises the barrier to entry and creates pressure on the remaining market.

Everything about this scam works against affordability and homeownership.

+1
Arlingtonians got played.

Nope, their progressiveness just caught up with them and their ballots. They think they want this, they voted for this under the guise of affordable housing and now it's in their own front yards. It's kinda laughable to watch the heads explode.

The majority of our 22207/22213 neighborhoods (most of which are liberal) did not want this.

I disagree. I'm in 22207, and I'd rather have missing middle than the status quo. If we could go back to a time where people weren't allowed to build 3 story houses on basically the entirety of their lots, that's what I want. But we can't go back. Infrastructure is a concern, sure, but as it is, I'm fairly certain that many homeowners skirt the requirement to upgrade pipes if they have a certain number of toilets. I don't know for sure, I'm only surmising based on the absence of dug up front yards when building an addition.

You are an owner?

Can you explain why you’d prefer this? Seems that you’ve had a huge growth in property value over time…and now you’d prefer that someone build a six plex next door, with the accompanying cars, children, and dogs? And all without required off street parking?

I find this hard to believe unless you are just a masochist.

Yes, I am an owner. I will address your points in turn.

(1) Property value growth: I don't see how this decreases my property value. My house likely will be a teardown in any event (it's a perfectly nice house, that's just the way the wind is blowing). A developer will pay more to build more. And if I time the sale when a next-door neighbor sells, even better.

(2) Cars, children, dogs: Many of my current neighbors have more cars than people living in the house, despite the fact that my house is near public transportation. By contrast, a young couple who just moved into the neighborhood share a car. Young couples are the likelier demographic for multi-family, so I don't see there being vastly more cars. Only time will tell how Gen Z approaches parenthood (I can see 2 of my 3 children choosing to forgo parenthood), so the children aspect is a question mark. There will definitely be more dogs.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're taking into account what your property value could be in a neighborhood zoned exclusively for SFH versus a neighborhood zoned for MMH. Will your property value likely increase in either case? Yes. However, will your property value increase at the same rate under both zoning proposals? No, I don't think so. It's ok for you, personally, to accept the diminished return but I wouldn't expect your neighbors to be happy about it.

I’m not the PP, but some people just accept that they aren’t entitled to the level of appreciation we have seen in recent years if we are also in a housing shortage. We are fine with that. It’s just a different perspective.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

But a multiplex like that is covered because the neighborhood still has the features of originally being one with SFHs - trees, grass, fewer cars, neighbors, etc. If all the SFHs are gone then why wouldn’t one rather live in a condo with amenities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

But a multiplex like that is covered because the neighborhood still has the features of originally being one with SFHs - trees, grass, fewer cars, neighbors, etc. If all the SFHs are gone then why wouldn’t one rather live in a condo with amenities?

Why would they all be gone? I checked a couple of the sales price of a lot of the homes in the ARL now article and they were below 1M (which is criminally low, those people didn’t get what their lord were worth).

I can’t see a builder paying 1.4 and up for a lot that has a house with improvements. And they don’t even have to be very great improvements to go for 1.4…. It’s a math problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People and neighborhood groups did propose options--not just objections--but the board didn't listen, minds made up.

I too thought MM's intent and purpose was to build lower cost affordable town houses and condos in residential neighborhoods for families to PURCHASE not a bunch of rentals.

Wishful thinking and was never going to happen. I was sorry Roy didn't win the primary. I know her socially and she'd been talking about this fallacy for a long time and that, as a realtor, she knows a lot of developers who have told her MM is good for them but bad for neighborhoods. I think she'd have brought a good dose of reality to the board.

I think the boards suspects this. I also assume that’s why they are capping the annual number of building permits for EHOs. I don’t think anyone really knows what’s going to happen for sure.

The Board isn’t capping the annual number of permits because they suspect this will be bad for neighborhoods! They don’t care what happens with this housing or neighborhoods (there can never be too much density for them). The Board just wanted to be one of the first counties in the country to have MMH. They only put a cap to make it look like they were compromising with all the residents who were opposed to MMH. They also changed the name because everyone knows that this housing isn’t for middle class folks that can’t afford Arlington. They made very few concessions and are not worried in the least about parking, sewers, over crowded schools or tree canopy.

They put their own personal agendas before the good and needs of the community. At least two of them will be gone and hope the Board moving forward will be aligned with the residents of this county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

No offense, but you need to think about this more. Look at the two neighborhoods you listed...do they have a common denominator that you won't find in other areas of Arlington previously zoned exclusively for SFH? To point out the obvious: proximity to the Metro. Clarendon and Ballston are thriving areas with wonderful amenities nearby that simply won't be replicated across the county. Indeed, they're not even being replicated in other metro-adjacent neighborhoods.

Additionally, when you're talking about new builds or existing homes going for millions in these neighborhoods, how close are they to multi-family dwellings? Are we talking about homes that are on the same block? Right next door to multi-dwelling units? I think it's fairly obvious that isn't the case even if homes are selling in the same broader neighborhood for millions. Which, again, is not to say those homes will not appreciate in value. They will...but not at the same rate as homes removed from multi-dwelling units.

The point being this: it's completely fine to support MMH if you believe the pros outweigh the cons. But, can we stop pretending that the cons don't exist? Someone will absolutely lose if multi-dwelling units spread in non-metro adjacent neighborhoods across Arlington. It will almost certainly be existing SFH owners with units right next to new multi-family dwellings. If, from your perspective, the loss to the SFH owner is outweighed by the benefit of denser housing so be it. Let's just be honest in the assessment.

My problem with MMH isn't the potential impact on SFH owners in Arlington (of which, I am one). It's that no thought is being given to why additional density is desirable in Arlington in the first place let alone the potential impact on community services, infrastructure, and so forth. Additionally, if we are going to have greater density, I want a housing program that prioritizes current Arlington residents stay in place (e.g. help Arlington renters become Arlington homeowners) with a focus on lower-income residents. Multi-dwelling units, owned by a housing trust established by Arlington County, with first-time homebuyer assistance for Arlington residents that have lived in Arlington for 5+ years would be fantastic. If Arlington County doesn't have that authority...why isn't it fighting tooth and nail for it from the state government?

As it stands, Arlington's MMH program is a giveaway to developers that will achieve greater density without greater socio-economic diversity or even greater homeownership in Arlington. The County's answer to everything is "the market" will determine what happens...and this coming from Democrats that otherwise should know that the "market" will put profits over people every single time. As a Democrat, that alone is infuriating. Developers will tear down SFH and then replace them with 4-6plexes that will either be rented out at market rate or sold for more money than the average Arlingtonian can reasonably afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

No offense, but you need to think about this more. Look at the two neighborhoods you listed...do they have a common denominator that you won't find in other areas of Arlington previously zoned exclusively for SFH? To point out the obvious: proximity to the Metro. Clarendon and Ballston are thriving areas with wonderful amenities nearby that simply won't be replicated across the county. Indeed, they're not even being replicated in other metro-adjacent neighborhoods.

Additionally, when you're talking about new builds or existing homes going for millions in these neighborhoods, how close are they to multi-family dwellings? Are we talking about homes that are on the same block? Right next door to multi-dwelling units? I think it's fairly obvious that isn't the case even if homes are selling in the same broader neighborhood for millions. Which, again, is not to say those homes will not appreciate in value. They will...but not at the same rate as homes removed from multi-dwelling units.

The point being this: it's completely fine to support MMH if you believe the pros outweigh the cons. But, can we stop pretending that the cons don't exist? Someone will absolutely lose if multi-dwelling units spread in non-metro adjacent neighborhoods across Arlington. It will almost certainly be existing SFH owners with units right next to new multi-family dwellings. If, from your perspective, the loss to the SFH owner is outweighed by the benefit of denser housing so be it. Let's just be honest in the assessment.

My problem with MMH isn't the potential impact on SFH owners in Arlington (of which, I am one). It's that no thought is being given to why additional density is desirable in Arlington in the first place let alone the potential impact on community services, infrastructure, and so forth. Additionally, if we are going to have greater density, I want a housing program that prioritizes current Arlington residents stay in place (e.g. help Arlington renters become Arlington homeowners) with a focus on lower-income residents. Multi-dwelling units, owned by a housing trust established by Arlington County, with first-time homebuyer assistance for Arlington residents that have lived in Arlington for 5+ years would be fantastic. If Arlington County doesn't have that authority...why isn't it fighting tooth and nail for it from the state government?

As it stands, Arlington's MMH program is a giveaway to developers that will achieve greater density without greater socio-economic diversity or even greater homeownership in Arlington. The County's answer to everything is "the market" will determine what happens...and this coming from Democrats that otherwise should know that the "market" will put profits over people every single time. As a Democrat, that alone is infuriating. Developers will tear down SFH and then replace them with 4-6plexes that will either be rented out at market rate or sold for more money than the average Arlingtonian can reasonably afford.

I’m talking about a home that was across the street from an apartment (which is larger than a 6 plex) that sold for 2.7M in 24 hours. And there are other examples like this (maybe not the 24 hour part, but the price and the proximity to multi-family housing).

I agree that the amenities in orange line neighborhoods are fabulous and unlikely to be replicated farther out. But I also think that because those areas are less desirable, they won’t become neighborhoods of 4-6 plexes. And if a house here or there doesn’t appreciate as fast as other houses, so be it. We can’t craft policy based on what may (or may not) happen to a few homeowners.

[Anonymous]

^ Also, no offense taken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

No offense, but you need to think about this more. Look at the two neighborhoods you listed...do they have a common denominator that you won't find in other areas of Arlington previously zoned exclusively for SFH? To point out the obvious: proximity to the Metro. Clarendon and Ballston are thriving areas with wonderful amenities nearby that simply won't be replicated across the county. Indeed, they're not even being replicated in other metro-adjacent neighborhoods.

Additionally, when you're talking about new builds or existing homes going for millions in these neighborhoods, how close are they to multi-family dwellings? Are we talking about homes that are on the same block? Right next door to multi-dwelling units? I think it's fairly obvious that isn't the case even if homes are selling in the same broader neighborhood for millions. Which, again, is not to say those homes will not appreciate in value. They will...but not at the same rate as homes removed from multi-dwelling units.

The point being this: it's completely fine to support MMH if you believe the pros outweigh the cons. But, can we stop pretending that the cons don't exist? Someone will absolutely lose if multi-dwelling units spread in non-metro adjacent neighborhoods across Arlington. It will almost certainly be existing SFH owners with units right next to new multi-family dwellings. If, from your perspective, the loss to the SFH owner is outweighed by the benefit of denser housing so be it. Let's just be honest in the assessment.

My problem with MMH isn't the potential impact on SFH owners in Arlington (of which, I am one). It's that no thought is being given to why additional density is desirable in Arlington in the first place let alone the potential impact on community services, infrastructure, and so forth. Additionally, if we are going to have greater density, I want a housing program that prioritizes current Arlington residents stay in place (e.g. help Arlington renters become Arlington homeowners) with a focus on lower-income residents. Multi-dwelling units, owned by a housing trust established by Arlington County, with first-time homebuyer assistance for Arlington residents that have lived in Arlington for 5+ years would be fantastic. If Arlington County doesn't have that authority...why isn't it fighting tooth and nail for it from the state government?

As it stands, Arlington's MMH program is a giveaway to developers that will achieve greater density without greater socio-economic diversity or even greater homeownership in Arlington. The County's answer to everything is "the market" will determine what happens...and this coming from Democrats that otherwise should know that the "market" will put profits over people every single time. As a Democrat, that alone is infuriating. Developers will tear down SFH and then replace them with 4-6plexes that will either be rented out at market rate or sold for more money than the average Arlingtonian can reasonably afford.

Are you looking at the big picture, like the population growth that is expected in our region in the next 15 years? That means even more buyers at all levels, including SFHs. Arlington is an inner suburb. I wouldn’t worry too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

No offense, but you need to think about this more. Look at the two neighborhoods you listed...do they have a common denominator that you won't find in other areas of Arlington previously zoned exclusively for SFH? To point out the obvious: proximity to the Metro. Clarendon and Ballston are thriving areas with wonderful amenities nearby that simply won't be replicated across the county. Indeed, they're not even being replicated in other metro-adjacent neighborhoods.

Additionally, when you're talking about new builds or existing homes going for millions in these neighborhoods, how close are they to multi-family dwellings? Are we talking about homes that are on the same block? Right next door to multi-dwelling units? I think it's fairly obvious that isn't the case even if homes are selling in the same broader neighborhood for millions. Which, again, is not to say those homes will not appreciate in value. They will...but not at the same rate as homes removed from multi-dwelling units.

The point being this: it's completely fine to support MMH if you believe the pros outweigh the cons. But, can we stop pretending that the cons don't exist? Someone will absolutely lose if multi-dwelling units spread in non-metro adjacent neighborhoods across Arlington. It will almost certainly be existing SFH owners with units right next to new multi-family dwellings. If, from your perspective, the loss to the SFH owner is outweighed by the benefit of denser housing so be it. Let's just be honest in the assessment.

My problem with MMH isn't the potential impact on SFH owners in Arlington (of which, I am one). It's that no thought is being given to why additional density is desirable in Arlington in the first place let alone the potential impact on community services, infrastructure, and so forth. Additionally, if we are going to have greater density, I want a housing program that prioritizes current Arlington residents stay in place (e.g. help Arlington renters become Arlington homeowners) with a focus on lower-income residents. Multi-dwelling units, owned by a housing trust established by Arlington County, with first-time homebuyer assistance for Arlington residents that have lived in Arlington for 5+ years would be fantastic. If Arlington County doesn't have that authority...why isn't it fighting tooth and nail for it from the state government?

As it stands, Arlington's MMH program is a giveaway to developers that will achieve greater density without greater socio-economic diversity or even greater homeownership in Arlington. The County's answer to everything is "the market" will determine what happens...and this coming from Democrats that otherwise should know that the "market" will put profits over people every single time. As a Democrat, that alone is infuriating. Developers will tear down SFH and then replace them with 4-6plexes that will either be rented out at market rate or sold for more money than the average Arlingtonian can reasonably afford.

I’m talking about a home that was across the street from an apartment (which is larger than a 6 plex) that sold for 2.7M in 24 hours. And there are other examples like this (maybe not the 24 hour part, but the price and the proximity to multi-family housing).

I agree that the amenities in orange line neighborhoods are fabulous and unlikely to be replicated farther out. But I also think that because those areas are less desirable, they won’t become neighborhoods of 4-6 plexes. And if a house here or there doesn’t appreciate as fast as other houses, so be it. We can’t craft policy based on what may (or may not) happen to a few homeowners.

Here are a couple examples. First one backs to a Multifamily building and it sold above asking very quickly:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/907-N-Irving-St-Arlington-VA-22201/12086690_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare

Second one is 807 N Jackson. This lot sold for $1.3 million and the beautiful modern home, I’d guess between 6-7,000 sq ft must have been at least $2 million or more to build. It is next door three multi-family buildings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

No offense, but you need to think about this more. Look at the two neighborhoods you listed...do they have a common denominator that you won't find in other areas of Arlington previously zoned exclusively for SFH? To point out the obvious: proximity to the Metro. Clarendon and Ballston are thriving areas with wonderful amenities nearby that simply won't be replicated across the county. Indeed, they're not even being replicated in other metro-adjacent neighborhoods.

Additionally, when you're talking about new builds or existing homes going for millions in these neighborhoods, how close are they to multi-family dwellings? Are we talking about homes that are on the same block? Right next door to multi-dwelling units? I think it's fairly obvious that isn't the case even if homes are selling in the same broader neighborhood for millions. Which, again, is not to say those homes will not appreciate in value. They will...but not at the same rate as homes removed from multi-dwelling units.

The point being this: it's completely fine to support MMH if you believe the pros outweigh the cons. But, can we stop pretending that the cons don't exist? Someone will absolutely lose if multi-dwelling units spread in non-metro adjacent neighborhoods across Arlington. It will almost certainly be existing SFH owners with units right next to new multi-family dwellings. If, from your perspective, the loss to the SFH owner is outweighed by the benefit of denser housing so be it. Let's just be honest in the assessment.

My problem with MMH isn't the potential impact on SFH owners in Arlington (of which, I am one). It's that no thought is being given to why additional density is desirable in Arlington in the first place let alone the potential impact on community services, infrastructure, and so forth. Additionally, if we are going to have greater density, I want a housing program that prioritizes current Arlington residents stay in place (e.g. help Arlington renters become Arlington homeowners) with a focus on lower-income residents. Multi-dwelling units, owned by a housing trust established by Arlington County, with first-time homebuyer assistance for Arlington residents that have lived in Arlington for 5+ years would be fantastic. If Arlington County doesn't have that authority...why isn't it fighting tooth and nail for it from the state government?

As it stands, Arlington's MMH program is a giveaway to developers that will achieve greater density without greater socio-economic diversity or even greater homeownership in Arlington. The County's answer to everything is "the market" will determine what happens...and this coming from Democrats that otherwise should know that the "market" will put profits over people every single time. As a Democrat, that alone is infuriating. Developers will tear down SFH and then replace them with 4-6plexes that will either be rented out at market rate or sold for more money than the average Arlingtonian can reasonably afford.

Here are a couple examples. First one backs to a Multifamily building and it sold above asking very quickly:

https://www.zillow.com/ho...e=txtshare

Second one is 807 N Jackson. This lot sold for $1.3 million and the beautiful modern home, I’d guess between 6-7,000 sq ft must have been at least $2 million or more to build. It is next door three multi-family buildings.

Also, most of the permits submitted for missing middle housing construction were in neighborhoods like mine and others along the metro corridor. I think there is less of a demand for $900,000 condos in your neighborhood so you should be alright.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't move to a SFH within close distance to a 4-plex or 6-plex. If I wanted density, I wouldn't be choosing a SFH.

As someone who lives in Ashton Heights, we already have missing middle housing in parts of the neighborhood — particularly the blocks closer to Clarendon — and people are building new $3 million + houses and consistently buying homes in the $1.5 - 2.5 million right near these Multifamily building with 4-10 units. The same thing is happening in Lyon Park and Lyon Village. Honestly my guess is having to spend $1.25 - 1.5 million for a lot in these neighborhoods is going to lead to high end condos and rentals built in those new 6 plexes. Right now there are a number of terrible single family home rentals with loud 20 something’s partying and being very loud. My guess is the new neighbors “fit” in the neighborhood more and the end result is people will be happier. All of this is much ado about nothing. And to the poster that said people don’t move to Arlington for an urban experience, give me a break! Nearly 3/4 of our residents already live in Multifamily housing.

This. You may not want to live near a multiplex, but plenty of people don’t mind, and they are paying millions. We live next door to a world class city. The 20 somethings are probably about to be priced out from those group houses…

No offense, but you need to think about this more. Look at the two neighborhoods you listed...do they have a common denominator that you won't find in other areas of Arlington previously zoned exclusively for SFH? To point out the obvious: proximity to the Metro. Clarendon and Ballston are thriving areas with wonderful amenities nearby that simply won't be replicated across the county. Indeed, they're not even being replicated in other metro-adjacent neighborhoods.

Additionally, when you're talking about new builds or existing homes going for millions in these neighborhoods, how close are they to multi-family dwellings? Are we talking about homes that are on the same block? Right next door to multi-dwelling units? I think it's fairly obvious that isn't the case even if homes are selling in the same broader neighborhood for millions. Which, again, is not to say those homes will not appreciate in value. They will...but not at the same rate as homes removed from multi-dwelling units.

The point being this: it's completely fine to support MMH if you believe the pros outweigh the cons. But, can we stop pretending that the cons don't exist? Someone will absolutely lose if multi-dwelling units spread in non-metro adjacent neighborhoods across Arlington. It will almost certainly be existing SFH owners with units right next to new multi-family dwellings. If, from your perspective, the loss to the SFH owner is outweighed by the benefit of denser housing so be it. Let's just be honest in the assessment.

My problem with MMH isn't the potential impact on SFH owners in Arlington (of which, I am one). It's that no thought is being given to why additional density is desirable in Arlington in the first place let alone the potential impact on community services, infrastructure, and so forth. Additionally, if we are going to have greater density, I want a housing program that prioritizes current Arlington residents stay in place (e.g. help Arlington renters become Arlington homeowners) with a focus on lower-income residents. Multi-dwelling units, owned by a housing trust established by Arlington County, with first-time homebuyer assistance for Arlington residents that have lived in Arlington for 5+ years would be fantastic. If Arlington County doesn't have that authority...why isn't it fighting tooth and nail for it from the state government?

As it stands, Arlington's MMH program is a giveaway to developers that will achieve greater density without greater socio-economic diversity or even greater homeownership in Arlington. The County's answer to everything is "the market" will determine what happens...and this coming from Democrats that otherwise should know that the "market" will put profits over people every single time. As a Democrat, that alone is infuriating. Developers will tear down SFH and then replace them with 4-6plexes that will either be rented out at market rate or sold for more money than the average Arlingtonian can reasonably afford.

Here are a couple examples. First one backs to a Multifamily building and it sold above asking very quickly:

https://www.zillow.com/ho...e=txtshare

Second one is 807 N Jackson. This lot sold for $1.3 million and the beautiful modern home, I’d guess between 6-7,000 sq ft must have been at least $2 million or more to build. It is next door three multi-family buildings.

Also, most of the permits submitted for missing middle housing construction were in neighborhoods like mine and others along the metro corridor. I think there is less of a demand for $900,000 condos in your neighborhood so you should be alright.

One other point: you can’t both be worried about people being priced out of homes, i.e. saying homes that Arlingtonians can reasonably afford and be concerned about a potential hit to your property value. The most likely outcome of MMH is that it increases the price of single family homes, because land value increases even more than it already has. If you’d like to look at comparable places that have long had a mix of single family homes and MMH I would point you to Santa Monica and Cambridge. Both have incredibly expensive real estate and people that live in $5 million single family homes next to Multifamily houses. We live next door to the nations Capitol. Seems reasonable people would pay a lot to be here.