Everyone I ever met who went to Harvard Law School graduated from a college I've never heard of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know HLS grads who went to Harvard undergrad. And I know HLS grads who went to undergrad at TCU and UK (as in, the University of Kentucky) and SCU. Oh, and Lake Forest College, though he was old (and kind of a jerk TBH).

There is a continuum. If your undergrad is in the top 100 ish, or is your state flagship, you are in good shape as far as undergrad institution. You don't need a top 30. You do need a high GPA.

If someone theoretically had a perfect GPA & LSAT and was at an undergrad ranked #300, I’m sure they’d have good law school options.

But not Harvard. And major would matter, too. A dance major from App State with a 4.0 is not going to Harvard Law.

Yes they are if they have a 179 LSAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know HLS grads who went to Harvard undergrad. And I know HLS grads who went to undergrad at TCU and UK (as in, the University of Kentucky) and SCU. Oh, and Lake Forest College, though he was old (and kind of a jerk TBH).

There is a continuum. If your undergrad is in the top 100 ish, or is your state flagship, you are in good shape as far as undergrad institution. You don't need a top 30. You do need a high GPA.

If someone theoretically had a perfect GPA & LSAT and was at an undergrad ranked #300, I’m sure they’d have good law school options.

But not Harvard. And major would matter, too. A dance major from App State with a 4.0 is not going to Harvard Law.

Major & school are irrelevant as long as you have top GPA & LSAT. Most people at App State have neither and aren’t applying to law schools, so that’s why you see one App State grad at Harvard Law every century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know HLS grads who went to Harvard undergrad. And I know HLS grads who went to undergrad at TCU and UK (as in, the University of Kentucky) and SCU. Oh, and Lake Forest College, though he was old (and kind of a jerk TBH).

There is a continuum. If your undergrad is in the top 100 ish, or is your state flagship, you are in good shape as far as undergrad institution. You don't need a top 30. You do need a high GPA.

If someone theoretically had a perfect GPA & LSAT and was at an undergrad ranked #300, I’m sure they’d have good law school options.

But not Harvard. And major would matter, too. A dance major from App State with a 4.0 is not going to Harvard Law.

Wrong & wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

This is a completely wrong take.

Your GPA matters for HLS but the name of your undergrad institution does not. A 3.2 from a top 30 will not get you very far, much less HLS, unless you are several years out of undergrad and have a 95%ile test score or you have some kind of amazingly prestigious and relevant work experience.

And your undergrad institution has zero impact on a GRE, GMAT or LSAT score (except to the extent that competitive schools tend to rely on high SAT/ACT scores to weed out applicants, so the entering population is predisposed to have naturally good test-taking qualities). Good test scores can be taught and practiced - even at the 95%ile. You need to know how to study and some people will need more time and practice to get there.

Your friend with a DC at Elon may yet have the last laugh, snooty PP, if the Elon student does LSAT prep and has good recs and a relevant pitch for why X law school.

Love,
a long time test prep tutor and parent of an HLS student[/quote

I guess I was unclear. The Elon student already applied to 8 mediocre schools and two "top" ones. Guess which ones she was rejected from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

This is a completely wrong take.

Your GPA matters for HLS but the name of your undergrad institution does not. A 3.2 from a top 30 will not get you very far, much less HLS, unless you are several years out of undergrad and have a 95%ile test score or you have some kind of amazingly prestigious and relevant work experience.

And your undergrad institution has zero impact on a GRE, GMAT or LSAT score (except to the extent that competitive schools tend to rely on high SAT/ACT scores to weed out applicants, so the entering population is predisposed to have naturally good test-taking qualities). Good test scores can be taught and practiced - even at the 95%ile. You need to know how to study and some people will need more time and practice to get there.

Your friend with a DC at Elon may yet have the last laugh, snooty PP, if the Elon student does LSAT prep and has good recs and a relevant pitch for why X law school.

Love,
a long time test prep tutor and parent of an HLS student[/quote

I guess I was unclear. The Elon student already applied to 8 mediocre schools and two "top" ones. Guess which ones she was rejected from.

You haven’t stated her LSAT score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is that?

Where are you meeting all of these graduates from Harvard Law School?

If you work in the legal field in DC (as I do), or live in Bethesda (as I do), you will meet lots of HLS graduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

This is a completely wrong take.

Your GPA matters for HLS but the name of your undergrad institution does not. A 3.2 from a top 30 will not get you very far, much less HLS, unless you are several years out of undergrad and have a 95%ile test score or you have some kind of amazingly prestigious and relevant work experience.

And your undergrad institution has zero impact on a GRE, GMAT or LSAT score (except to the extent that competitive schools tend to rely on high SAT/ACT scores to weed out applicants, so the entering population is predisposed to have naturally good test-taking qualities). Good test scores can be taught and practiced - even at the 95%ile. You need to know how to study and some people will need more time and practice to get there.

Your friend with a DC at Elon may yet have the last laugh, snooty PP, if the Elon student does LSAT prep and has good recs and a relevant pitch for why X law school.

Love,
a long time test prep tutor and parent of an HLS student

I guess I was unclear. The Elon student already applied to 8 mediocre schools and two "top" ones. Guess which ones she was rejected from.

What was the Elon student's LSAT? (That is the reason they would not get into a top law school, not the undergrad being Elon.)

Over and over again, attorneys post in this forum about the relative unimportance of undergrad institution for top law school admission. Over and over again, high school seniors (and possibly their parents) post here trying to convince families otherwise - they are simply incorrect. GPA and LSAT are key. URM status is important. Work experience after college helps. Undergrad institution does not have special significance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is probably more about your familiarity with colleges than about Harvard law admissions.

+1 OP, name the schools you’ve never heard of. DH is a HLS alum, and he went to Williams. His closest law school friends went to UNC, Michigan, Yale, Carleton, Swarthmore, and Harvard undergrad. All well known schools for those who are familiar with top colleges.

Harvard law draws from about 174 different undergrads institutions. Quite possible someone not familiar with all the schools on the list. https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Nor is this unique. Look up any other elite law school and they will draw from around 100 colleges on up to the Harvard range, depending on size of the class.

They have one person from the no name schools and dozens from Harvard and dozens from Yale though.

I went to a T5 law school (then and now, according to US News) and there were 7 kids from Harvard, no other school had more than 4, and most were the lone representative from their college. Law schools value diversity of backgrounds more than dcum thinks they do.

Eh. They prefer you answer the phone for a Senator for four weeks than have a job for three years. One of these requires financial help. But if you don’t seem poor, they don’t value working a real job. They’re not as aware as they say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad as long as you get a 4.0, a high lsat, do all the meaningless “intern” jobs you can that fill your resume (better to stuff envelopes for a Senator than have a job in their eyes - one of the ways the rich are privileged in this process), and apply in November.

But for most people who only got into those mediocre schools to begin with, they won't get a high LSAT. And a 4.0 GPA from Elon with a high LSAT still won't get you even into UVA law, much less Harvard. Trust me. I have a friend who boasts about her DD's 4.0 from Elon and she'll be wasting her money on a mediocre law school next year. A 3.2 from a top 30 will trump a 4.0 from an average college every time.

This is a completely wrong take.

Your GPA matters for HLS but the name of your undergrad institution does not. A 3.2 from a top 30 will not get you very far, much less HLS, unless you are several years out of undergrad and have a 95%ile test score or you have some kind of amazingly prestigious and relevant work experience.

And your undergrad institution has zero impact on a GRE, GMAT or LSAT score (except to the extent that competitive schools tend to rely on high SAT/ACT scores to weed out applicants, so the entering population is predisposed to have naturally good test-taking qualities). Good test scores can be taught and practiced - even at the 95%ile. You need to know how to study and some people will need more time and practice to get there.

Your friend with a DC at Elon may yet have the last laugh, snooty PP, if the Elon student does LSAT prep and has good recs and a relevant pitch for why X law school.

Love,
a long time test prep tutor and parent of an HLS student

I guess I was unclear. The Elon student already applied to 8 mediocre schools and two "top" ones. Guess which ones she was rejected from.

What was the Elon student's LSAT? (That is the reason they would not get into a top law school, not the undergrad being Elon.)

Over and over again, attorneys post in this forum about the relative unimportance of undergrad institution for top law school admission. Over and over again, high school seniors (and possibly their parents) post here trying to convince families otherwise - they are simply incorrect. GPA and LSAT are key. URM status is important. Work experience after college helps. Undergrad institution does not have special significance.

And one thing these posters never mention is that you have to apply in November. They have rolling admissions so no matter how amazing your stats are, their classes are just full by February so your odds are significantly decreased with every passing month. And then there’s no point in applying next year because they already rejected or waitlisted you once. They don’t say “oh, but it was just because our class was full.” They say “what’s have you done lately? Nothing different. Pass again”

[Anonymous]

I went to Yale not Harvard for law school but I would not that the people from lesser known undergrads were usually top ranked in their class with high lsat and outstanding teacher recommendations; former military (YLs really wants veterans in every class); or had other really unique or interesting life experience (eg was a community activist, acclaimed author, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know HLS grads who went to Harvard undergrad. And I know HLS grads who went to undergrad at TCU and UK (as in, the University of Kentucky) and SCU. Oh, and Lake Forest College, though he was old (and kind of a jerk TBH).

There is a continuum. If your undergrad is in the top 100 ish, or is your state flagship, you are in good shape as far as undergrad institution. You don't need a top 30. You do need a high GPA.

If someone theoretically had a perfect GPA & LSAT and was at an undergrad ranked #300, I’m sure they’d have good law school options.

But not Harvard. And major would matter, too. A dance major from App State with a 4.0 is not going to Harvard Law.

Yes they are if they have a 179 LSAT.

No really, it’s not that simple. This is one of the big lies repeated on this board. They have a chance, yes. But stop telling people that a high lsat is all you need. Maybe this was true 20 or 40 years ago but it is absolutely not the case now.

I know a dual math and history major with a 4.0 in each degree, stellar recs, internships, ECs, leadership positions, and awards with a 175 who didn’t break top 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s because it’s way easier to get a high GPA at one of those colleges, and student gpa is a data point in the US News rankings for law schools, so law schools have an incentive to admit lots of students with high GPA’s.

Lol. The average undergrad GPA at Harvard is a 3.7

3.7 is not particularly high for law school admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know HLS grads who went to Harvard undergrad. And I know HLS grads who went to undergrad at TCU and UK (as in, the University of Kentucky) and SCU. Oh, and Lake Forest College, though he was old (and kind of a jerk TBH).

There is a continuum. If your undergrad is in the top 100 ish, or is your state flagship, you are in good shape as far as undergrad institution. You don't need a top 30. You do need a high GPA.

If someone theoretically had a perfect GPA & LSAT and was at an undergrad ranked #300, I’m sure they’d have good law school options.

But not Harvard. And major would matter, too. A dance major from App State with a 4.0 is not going to Harvard Law.

Yes they are if they have a 179 LSAT.

Totally agree with immediate PP—this applicant would be very competitive in law school admissions.

[Anonymous]

Really? I know a lot of HLS grads. They want to Harvard, Yale, Amherst and Swarthmore undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to Yale not Harvard for law school but I would not that the people from lesser known undergrads were usually top ranked in their class with high lsat and outstanding teacher recommendations; former military (YLs really wants veterans in every class); or had other really unique or interesting life experience (eg was a community activist, acclaimed author, etc.)

Np here and I’d add that in my experience the lesser known undergrad or “weaker” undergrad people almost always, when you dig deeper, went to their undergrad on a scholarship (oftentimes a merit full ride) meaning they probably could have gone to a higher ranked school if money was no object.