If you left Big Law…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, can you put more cash into the house to lower your mortgage? I find that I am personally more comfortable if I have more room in my monthly cash flow, so perhaps you are the same. If you can come close to paying off the house, then I think it would be pretty comfortable with the kids in public school. Another option is to see if your husband can work for a financial regulator where the salary will be substantially higher.

I did this when I left BigLaw, but I don't think it makes any sense when OP likely has a low interest mortgage from before. Keep the low interest mortgage and pay it as slowly as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you really are low spenders, then you should be fine if he gets a Gov job. But I'm questioning whether you really are low spenders. $2M in savings for someone earning 7 figures for 5 years, plus probably high six figures before that, seems kind of low. Seems like maybe you are spending more than you think. I think you need to realistically track spending for a while and see what you are truly spending.

Although you are right, there are other expenses that come into play: student loans, saving for down payments, early childcare.

Sure, there could be many reasons they aren't really low spenders. I'm not saying they are spendthrifts. But whatever the expenses are will not magically go away once he gets a government job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH has been a Big Law partner for five years now (one of the top grossing firms in the country). He makes 7 figures including his bonus. And he hates it. He’s miserable. He wants to take a government job for a few years and test it out- says he doesn’t want at the end of his life to say he never tried something else. He’s in a pretty specialized law section and has been successful so he’s pretty confident he would get hired by the government and go back to private if/when he needs.

My question is for anyone who did this- what was your financial cushion? We have about $800,000 equity in our $1.6 M house, with a $4500 monthly mortage. Three kids, one in private preschool and two in public schools in bethesda. Two cars paid for. No debt. Close to $2M in savings not counting house equity. Close to $700,000 in 529’s for the kids (also not counted toward savings). DH feels comfortable living below our means for a few years and draining some of our savings so he can have a job that brings him happiness for some time, knowing he could go back to private if need be. It makes me more anxious. (And I do stay at home, it was a choice we both made when our oldest child was born. I was a preschool teacher and the cost of a nanny or daycare would have been more than I made.). We don’t live extravagant lives- no country clubs, not much expensive travel, no second homes, only once a month cleaners, etc. I want him to be happy more than anything but I worry about whether we can afford to live off of one government salary, even for a few years.

OP: After reading both of your posts in this thread, I suspect that you are fabricating at least some of the "facts".

In your first post, you share that your husband "wants to take a government job for a few years and test it out-says he doesn't want at the end of his life to say he never tried anything else." Yet, in your second post, you assert that he has worked in government before for several years and loved it. Which is it ?

Also, the fact that your husband--a very experienced attorney who has achieved partnership status--has not discussed in-house or "of counsel" options.

The OP's posts seem contradictory is a couple of key areas.

OP here

Without going into too many details, DH worked at one branch of government prior and wants to work at another agency which he hasn’t and is his dream. This is what he means when he says at the end of his life he’d like to do something he’s always dreamed of.

And he’s absolutely considered going in house and could do so. And that’s something he is considering if financially he needs to leave the government again. But he would like to do a stint in the govt again first for a few years.

And for the other PP we are still in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, can you put more cash into the house to lower your mortgage? I find that I am personally more comfortable if I have more room in my monthly cash flow, so perhaps you are the same. If you can come close to paying off the house, then I think it would be pretty comfortable with the kids in public school. Another option is to see if your husband can work for a financial regulator where the salary will be substantially higher.

I did this when I left BigLaw, but I don't think it makes any sense when OP likely has a low interest mortgage from before. Keep the low interest mortgage and pay it as slowly as possible.

There is something called re-amortization, which allows you to pay a lump sum towards your loan and the bank will adjust your monthly payment down but it will not affect the terms of your loan. No need to refinance.

[Anonymous]

Just go for it. If my dh had that big desire I'd say let's look at what it will mean budget wise, how I can contribute and what month/ year would be ideal to finally make the transition or start applying. Infuse energy over anxiety to make things go smoother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH has been a Big Law partner for five years now (one of the top grossing firms in the country). He makes 7 figures including his bonus. And he hates it. He’s miserable. He wants to take a government job for a few years and test it out- says he doesn’t want at the end of his life to say he never tried something else. He’s in a pretty specialized law section and has been successful so he’s pretty confident he would get hired by the government and go back to private if/when he needs.

My question is for anyone who did this- what was your financial cushion? We have about $800,000 equity in our $1.6 M house, with a $4500 monthly mortage. Three kids, one in private preschool and two in public schools in bethesda. Two cars paid for. No debt. Close to $2M in savings not counting house equity. Close to $700,000 in 529’s for the kids (also not counted toward savings). DH feels comfortable living below our means for a few years and draining some of our savings so he can have a job that brings him happiness for some time, knowing he could go back to private if need be. It makes me more anxious. (And I do stay at home, it was a choice we both made when our oldest child was born. I was a preschool teacher and the cost of a nanny or daycare would have been more than I made.). We don’t live extravagant lives- no country clubs, not much expensive travel, no second homes, only once a month cleaners, etc. I want him to be happy more than anything but I worry about whether we can afford to live off of one government salary, even for a few years.

OP: After reading both of your posts in this thread, I suspect that you are fabricating at least some of the "facts".

In your first post, you share that your husband "wants to take a government job for a few years and test it out-says he doesn't want at the end of his life to say he never tried anything else." Yet, in your second post, you assert that he has worked in government before for several years and loved it. Which is it ?

Also, the fact that your husband--a very experienced attorney who has achieved partnership status--has not discussed in-house or "of counsel" options.

The OP's posts seem contradictory is a couple of key areas.

OP here

Without going into too many details, DH worked at one branch of government prior and wants to work at another agency which he hasn’t and is his dream. This is what he means when he says at the end of his life he’d like to do something he’s always dreamed of.

And he’s absolutely considered going in house and could do so. And that’s something he is considering if financially he needs to leave the government again. But he would like to do a stint in the govt again first for a few years.

And for the other PP we are still in the area.

What is your dream job, OP?

Can you train for that. It sounds like your DH will get his dream job and refuse to leave from there.

Listen to what he is telling you. This is probably not a temporary shift for him..
You need to make 160k work( it will not) or get your dream job so you are all happy.

You are so close to the life you want. Make it happen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

I'm a lawyer who works with a lot of BigLaw firms. I don't think most who make it to partner actually hate the work--most enjoy it to some extent or they wouldn't have gotten that far. I think most just hate the quantity of work and how it takes over all aspects of your life. Some hate their firm politics, but that is very firm dependant. Others seem to find colleagues they actually like, and that helps make it all feel more tolerable, even if never ending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

I'm a lawyer who works with a lot of BigLaw firms. I don't think most who make it to partner actually hate the work--most enjoy it to some extent or they wouldn't have gotten that far. I think most just hate the quantity of work and how it takes over all aspects of your life. Some hate their firm politics, but that is very firm dependant. Others seem to find colleagues they actually like, and that helps make it all feel more tolerable, even if never ending.

Yep. It's the quantity of work. They would love to do it 50 hours a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

I'm a lawyer who works with a lot of BigLaw firms. I don't think most who make it to partner actually hate the work--most enjoy it to some extent or they wouldn't have gotten that far. I think most just hate the quantity of work and how it takes over all aspects of your life. Some hate their firm politics, but that is very firm dependant. Others seem to find colleagues they actually like, and that helps make it all feel more tolerable, even if never ending.

Yep. It's the quantity of work. They would love to do it 50 hours a week.

And the fact that no vacation (or even weekend) is EVER just a vacation/weekend. There is always SOME work to do. Big Law partners do no vacation anywhere without reliable high speed internet and a place to get work done. I have heard this from countless partners. One literally travels with her own printer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

I'm a lawyer who works with a lot of BigLaw firms. I don't think most who make it to partner actually hate the work--most enjoy it to some extent or they wouldn't have gotten that far. I think most just hate the quantity of work and how it takes over all aspects of your life. Some hate their firm politics, but that is very firm dependant. Others seem to find colleagues they actually like, and that helps make it all feel more tolerable, even if never ending.

Yep. It's the quantity of work. They would love to do it 50 hours a week.

And the fact that no vacation (or even weekend) is EVER just a vacation/weekend. There is always SOME work to do. Big Law partners do no vacation anywhere without reliable high speed internet and a place to get work done. I have heard this from countless partners. One literally travels with her own printer.

Holy cow!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH has been a Big Law partner for five years now (one of the top grossing firms in the country). He makes 7 figures including his bonus. And he hates it. He’s miserable. He wants to take a government job for a few years and test it out- says he doesn’t want at the end of his life to say he never tried something else. He’s in a pretty specialized law section and has been successful so he’s pretty confident he would get hired by the government and go back to private if/when he needs.

My question is for anyone who did this- what was your financial cushion? We have about $800,000 equity in our $1.6 M house, with a $4500 monthly mortage. Three kids, one in private preschool and two in public schools in bethesda. Two cars paid for. No debt. Close to $2M in savings not counting house equity. Close to $700,000 in 529’s for the kids (also not counted toward savings). DH feels comfortable living below our means for a few years and draining some of our savings so he can have a job that brings him happiness for some time, knowing he could go back to private if need be. It makes me more anxious. (And I do stay at home, it was a choice we both made when our oldest child was born. I was a preschool teacher and the cost of a nanny or daycare would have been more than I made.). We don’t live extravagant lives- no country clubs, not much expensive travel, no second homes, only once a month cleaners, etc. I want him to be happy more than anything but I worry about whether we can afford to live off of one government salary, even for a few years.

Is he an equity partner currently? Sounds like no.

How old is he?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

I have worked in big law. You haven't. And it's bizarre that you, who only 'knows' people who work in big law, claim to know better.

You also don't know the legal market all that well. Depending on speciality, in house can mean just as long of hours as big law, but at far less pay.

A young partner going to 'of counsel' will not be well received.

[Anonymous]

Oof. I’m the spouse of your DH had he married an equal from an educational perspective. My DH won’t quit because he suspects he would be a miserable and hard working alpha anywhere and he might as well make money.

But I bring in enough to support him quitting tomorrow. And if I decided to SAHM, I could probably re-enter at minimum six figures.

I feel really sorry for him. You seem nice and well intentioned but not like a partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.

Have a very different experience re: the first bolded. Spouse and I both started careers in biglaw and most partners we know/knew are very unhappy. Being happy requires finding the right niche practice area and a special personality type.

That said, agree re: the second bolded. I'd absolutely recommend looking at in-house or Of Counsel arrangements. Should be able to find better income/happiness balance.

Yeah, DH is a lawyer and has done Big Law (two different firms), in house a few places, and is now a partner at a small firm. Most everyone he knows professionally is a lawyer. Almost none of the partners are happy except 1 or 2 notable exceptions who basically don't have to do legal work any more. One just develops work (and is amazing at it) and then hands it off, and the other is a firm managing partner so essentially runs the firm but doesn't service clients. All the other partners we know hate it. Many of them have made their peace and straight up said they are not willing to walk away from the money even if they are unhappy. They have big mortgages and private school bills to pay. Others did leave and are much happier, but those are the ones who were more prudent financially.

But until OP and her husband actually crunch numbers, which it does NOT sound like they have done, they have no clue if they can do what they are proposing. Given their relatively low savings, I suspect she spends much more than she realizes, even if its not on anything fancy. DH and I have determined we need about $225k annual income to what we call "keep the lights on." To us this means pay mortgage and utilities, taxes, maintenence, maximize retirement and college savings vehicles, pay for reasonable (but not fancy) kid activities and take non fancy vacations. This does NOT include purchasing new cars, major home renovations beyond maintenance, or fancy "special" vacations. So we pay for those with the money we make over $225k and those would all be cut if we suddently needed to live on $225k. How OP would do it on a Gov salary is beyond me.

+1

Former Big Law (part-time, left as Of Counsel after a dozen years), now in house.

Run the numbers based on the last 6 months or so, then figure out your “keep the lights on” amount and figure out how you can either reduce it or get to the right HHI if the Govt job doesn’t get him there. Do it together.

We’re considering something similar - seeing if my H can strike out in his own as a consultant vs being a gov’t contractor (retired Fed). Our HHI before taxes between his pension and my salary is ~$290K w/o my $50-60K annual bonus, includes health insurance, one kid in elementary school with a healthy 529, and a mortgage that’s lower that OP’s by almost $1k, more in long term savings/retirement and I’m a little nervous. We have to figure out our “keep the lights on” number ourselves…

“keep the lights on” PP do you mind sharing your rough numbers? I keep getting caught up in what if scenarios and having a hard time getting started, and would love a starting point!