what does 'flexible scheduling' for DC teachers mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers never seem to be aware of how benefits work outside of the teaching profession.

How much do teachers pay for their health insurance?

How much do teachers pay for their retirement? In DCPS, it is 8%.

What do teachers get for their retirement? Suppose a teacher worked from 25-65. They'd earn more than 75% of their salary as a defined benefit retirement package. Find me a private sector job in which you received 75% of your salary in retirement from just this one prong? (https://dcrb.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcrb/publication/attachments/SPD_Teachers_Plan_2017_Final_6-5-2018.pdf)

What does this have to do with the discussion on flexible scheduling?

Everything in life is tradeoffs. You cannot complain about a bad thing without properly judging it as penance for a good thing.

That data is from 2004. A LOT has changed in the past 20 years.
Yes, your schedule is inflexible. But it also includes relatively lavish retirement benefits, summers off, and other perks.

Likewise, cops and military can retire at 20 years with full benefits (instead of the more common 30 years). This isn't some perk-from-nowhere; it is compensation for a job in which they risk their lives and undergo physical hardship.

So, generous retirement has everything to do with inflexible daily schedules since a job is a package of attributes, not just some random things cobbled together without a connection to each other.

Considering teachers are not making it 10+ years in the field, maybe this retirement benefit isn't as big of a carrot as you think it is.

Au contraire: average number of years of teaching experience is about 15 years. See https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/ruraled/tables/tablea3_8.asp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers never seem to be aware of how benefits work outside of the teaching profession.

How much do teachers pay for their health insurance?

How much do teachers pay for their retirement? In DCPS, it is 8%.

What do teachers get for their retirement? Suppose a teacher worked from 25-65. They'd earn more than 75% of their salary as a defined benefit retirement package. Find me a private sector job in which you received 75% of your salary in retirement from just this one prong? (https://dcrb.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcrb/publication/attachments/SPD_Teachers_Plan_2017_Final_6-5-2018.pdf)

What does this have to do with the discussion on flexible scheduling?

Everything in life is tradeoffs. You cannot complain about a bad thing without properly judging it as penance for a good thing.

Yes, your schedule is inflexible. But it also includes relatively lavish retirement benefits, summers off, and other perks.

Likewise, cops and military can retire at 20 years with full benefits (instead of the more common 30 years). This isn't some perk-from-nowhere; it is compensation for a job in which they risk their lives and undergo physical hardship.

So, generous retirement has everything to do with inflexible daily schedules since a job is a package of attributes, not just some random things cobbled together without a connection to each other.

Considering teachers are not making it 10+ years in the field, maybe this retirement benefit isn't as big of a carrot as you think it is.

Au contraire: average number of years of teaching experience is about 15 years. See https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/ruraled/tables/tablea3_8.asp

That data is from 2004. I started my career in 03. This job is 3x harder now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers never seem to be aware of how benefits work outside of the teaching profession.

How much do teachers pay for their health insurance?

How much do teachers pay for their retirement? In DCPS, it is 8%.

What do teachers get for their retirement? Suppose a teacher worked from 25-65. They'd earn more than 75% of their salary as a defined benefit retirement package. Find me a private sector job in which you received 75% of your salary in retirement from just this one prong? (https://dcrb.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcrb/publication/attachments/SPD_Teachers_Plan_2017_Final_6-5-2018.pdf)

What does this have to do with the discussion on flexible scheduling?

Everything in life is tradeoffs. You cannot complain about a bad thing without properly judging it as penance for a good thing.

Yes, your schedule is inflexible. But it also includes relatively lavish retirement benefits, summers off, and other perks.

Likewise, cops and military can retire at 20 years with full benefits (instead of the more common 30 years). This isn't some perk-from-nowhere; it is compensation for a job in which they risk their lives and undergo physical hardship.

So, generous retirement has everything to do with inflexible daily schedules since a job is a package of attributes, not just some random things cobbled together without a connection to each other.

Considering teachers are not making it 10+ years in the field, maybe this retirement benefit isn't as big of a carrot as you think it is.

Au contraire: average number of years of teaching experience is about 15 years. See https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/ruraled/tables/tablea3_8.asp

That data is from 2004. I started my career in 03. This job is 3x harder now.

I’m curious how you’re able to post here during the workday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers never seem to be aware of how benefits work outside of the teaching profession.

How much do teachers pay for their health insurance?

How much do teachers pay for their retirement? In DCPS, it is 8%.

What do teachers get for their retirement? Suppose a teacher worked from 25-65. They'd earn more than 75% of their salary as a defined benefit retirement package. Find me a private sector job in which you received 75% of your salary in retirement from just this one prong? (https://dcrb.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcrb/publication/attachments/SPD_Teachers_Plan_2017_Final_6-5-2018.pdf)

What does this have to do with the discussion on flexible scheduling?

Everything in life is tradeoffs. You cannot complain about a bad thing without properly judging it as penance for a good thing.

Yes, your schedule is inflexible. But it also includes relatively lavish retirement benefits, summers off, and other perks.

Likewise, cops and military can retire at 20 years with full benefits (instead of the more common 30 years). This isn't some perk-from-nowhere; it is compensation for a job in which they risk their lives and undergo physical hardship.

So, generous retirement has everything to do with inflexible daily schedules since a job is a package of attributes, not just some random things cobbled together without a connection to each other.

Considering teachers are not making it 10+ years in the field, maybe this retirement benefit isn't as big of a carrot as you think it is.

Au contraire: average number of years of teaching experience is about 15 years. See https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/ruraled/tables/tablea3_8.asp

That data is from 2004. I started my career in 03. This job is 3x harder now.

Come on. Don't be so damn lazy. Did you look to see if the number is still accurate?

2012: yep, still accurate (https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass1112_2013314_t12n_003.asp)

2016: yep, still accurate (https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/who-average-us-teacher)

Dig deep and use those critical thinking skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers never seem to be aware of how benefits work outside of the teaching profession.

How much do teachers pay for their health insurance?

How much do teachers pay for their retirement? In DCPS, it is 8%.

What do teachers get for their retirement? Suppose a teacher worked from 25-65. They'd earn more than 75% of their salary as a defined benefit retirement package. Find me a private sector job in which you received 75% of your salary in retirement from just this one prong? (https://dcrb.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcrb/publication/attachments/SPD_Teachers_Plan_2017_Final_6-5-2018.pdf)

What does this have to do with the discussion on flexible scheduling?

Everything in life is tradeoffs. You cannot complain about a bad thing without properly judging it as penance for a good thing.

Yes, your schedule is inflexible. But it also includes relatively lavish retirement benefits, summers off, and other perks.

Likewise, cops and military can retire at 20 years with full benefits (instead of the more common 30 years). This isn't some perk-from-nowhere; it is compensation for a job in which they risk their lives and undergo physical hardship.

So, generous retirement has everything to do with inflexible daily schedules since a job is a package of attributes, not just some random things cobbled together without a connection to each other.

Considering teachers are not making it 10+ years in the field, maybe this retirement benefit isn't as big of a carrot as you think it is.

Au contraire: average number of years of teaching experience is about 15 years. See https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/ruraled/tables/tablea3_8.asp

That data is from 2004. I started my career in 03. This job is 3x harder now.

Come on. Don't be so damn lazy. Did you look to see if the number is still accurate?

2012: yep, still accurate (https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass1112_2013314_t12n_003.asp)

2016: yep, still accurate (https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/who-average-us-teacher)

Dig deep and use those critical thinking skills.

Now, let's look at Urbran Districts
https://teachereducation.steinhardt.nyu.edu/high-teacher-turnover/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.

No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.

Teaching is by its nature not a flexible job. And teachers are usually free by 3:15 and all summer … not to mention three weeks of break during the school year.

I’m so tired of hearing this. That simply means that at 3:15, I can pick my own time to do the extra 4 hours of work I still have to get done that day. (Kind of like weekends. I still have to work 10-12 hours, but I can actually pick which hours. Lucky me.) And summers? I figure that’s my break for the 60-70 hour weeks I’ve been working all year. Summer is the only time I can take care of my own needs: my own appointments, my rare chance to get to the gym, etc.

NP, but a former litigator, and yes, to all of the above, assaulted 4 times on the job in 3 years, always had to show up to work sick

Has teaching become less flexible since you began or are you jealous that work from home has become more popular recently?

I'm a legal aid lawyer, making $60,000 a year ( so no more than teachers). In some ways I have more flexibility than you (can work from home if I'm not in trial or meeting with clients). In other ways I have less flexibility (I have trials and client meetings year round and have to use limited PTO for winter and spring breaks). Like teachers, my clients don't always treat me well and I'm exposed to a lot of secondary trauma. But it's the job I chose and I'm not complaining. I don't understand why teachers see themselves as martyrs more than other professions.

You have all summer off and 3 weeks during the year. If you don’t like the schedule that’s fine, but unless schools are going to increase staff time or decrease instructional time, it’s not feasible to make the job “flexible.” Presumably you chose teaching for a reason rather than a desk job.

My reason was I wanted to teach, and I’m very, very good at it. I did not sign on to being a martyr, which we now expect of teachers.

I will be quitting, just like many of my coworkers. I shouldn’t be expected to work absurd hours because… summers off. Yes, there is a solution to this problem. Give me work time to get work done. Don’t demand the sacrifice of my nights and weekends.

Trying again without messing up the quotes.

Has teaching become less flexible since you began or are you jealous that work from home has become more popular recently?

I'm a legal aid lawyer, making $60,000 a year ( so no more than teachers). In some ways I have more flexibility than you (can work from home if I'm not in trial or meeting with clients). In other ways I have less flexibility (I have trials and client meetings year round and have to use limited PTO for winter and spring breaks). Like teachers, my clients don't always treat me well and I'm exposed to a lot of secondary trauma. But it's the job I chose and I'm not complaining. I don't understand why teachers see themselves as martyrs more than other professions.

Are your clients allowed to hit, kick, or spit on you without consequence?
Are you blamed for losing a case, to the point where your evaluation score gets docked so you may lose your job?
Do your clients miss appointments to brief and never make them up?
Does the building in which you work have mice/rats or roaches INSIDE?
Does your air/heat go out and take weeks or months to fix?
Are there gas leaks?
Do you have enough resources to make sure you can support your clients?
Can you take a sick day without being guilt tripped by your superior or facing backlash in your evaluation as a result?


I could go on but really I want to say STFU. No one ever said because teaching is hard that other professions cannot be difficult and unfair.
Schooling is legally required so the least DCPS could do is make sure job standards are competitive.

I am a special education teacher and I deserve to have summers off. The United States is behind and it's showing in our workforce and results. Get out with your 'pick yourself up by the bootstraps' mentality.

NP, but also a lawyer and yes to all of the above, assaulted 4 times in 3 years, no ability to take time off, even Sundays, at that point my salary was 75k. I am happy that you have summers off and you absolutely deserve that time, along with better staffing so you can make morning appointments and have time to plan, but less instruction time during the week is going to hurt kids and will result in more people choosing to enroll in other districts/private. And as far as I can see, 4 out of 5 options presented thus far result in less instruction time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.

No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.

Teaching is by its nature not a flexible job. And teachers are usually free by 3:15 and all summer … not to mention three weeks of break during the school year.

I’m so tired of hearing this. That simply means that at 3:15, I can pick my own time to do the extra 4 hours of work I still have to get done that day. (Kind of like weekends. I still have to work 10-12 hours, but I can actually pick which hours. Lucky me.) And summers? I figure that’s my break for the 60-70 hour weeks I’ve been working all year. Summer is the only time I can take care of my own needs: my own appointments, my rare chance to get to the gym, etc.

Has teaching become less flexible since you began or are you jealous that work from home has become more popular recently?

I'm a legal aid lawyer, making $60,000 a year ( so no more than teachers). In some ways I have more flexibility than you (can work from home if I'm not in trial or meeting with clients). In other ways I have less flexibility (I have trials and client meetings year round and have to use limited PTO for winter and spring breaks). Like teachers, my clients don't always treat me well and I'm exposed to a lot of secondary trauma. But it's the job I chose and I'm not complaining. I don't understand why teachers see themselves as martyrs more than other professions.

You have all summer off and 3 weeks during the year. If you don’t like the schedule that’s fine, but unless schools are going to increase staff time or decrease instructional time, it’s not feasible to make the job “flexible.” Presumably you chose teaching for a reason rather than a desk job.

My reason was I wanted to teach, and I’m very, very good at it. I did not sign on to being a martyr, which we now expect of teachers.

I will be quitting, just like many of my coworkers. I shouldn’t be expected to work absurd hours because… summers off. Yes, there is a solution to this problem. Give me work time to get work done. Don’t demand the sacrifice of my nights and weekends.

Trying again without messing up the quotes.

Has teaching become less flexible since you began or are you jealous that work from home has become more popular recently?

I'm a legal aid lawyer, making $60,000 a year ( so no more than teachers). In some ways I have more flexibility than you (can work from home if I'm not in trial or meeting with clients). In other ways I have less flexibility (I have trials and client meetings year round and have to use limited PTO for winter and spring breaks). Like teachers, my clients don't always treat me well and I'm exposed to a lot of secondary trauma. But it's the job I chose and I'm not complaining. I don't understand why teachers see themselves as martyrs more than other professions.

Are your clients allowed to hit, kick, or spit on you without consequence?
Are you blamed for losing a case, to the point where your evaluation score gets docked so you may lose your job?
Do your clients miss appointments to brief and never make them up?
Does the building in which you work have mice/rats or roaches INSIDE?
Does your air/heat go out and take weeks or months to fix?
Are there gas leaks?
Do you have enough resources to make sure you can support your clients?
Can you take a sick day without being guilt tripped by your superior or facing backlash in your evaluation as a result?


I could go on but really I want to say STFU. No one ever said because teaching is hard that other professions cannot be difficult and unfair.
Schooling is legally required so the least DCPS could do is make sure job standards are competitive.

I am a special education teacher and I deserve to have summers off. The United States is behind and it's showing in our workforce and results. Get out with your 'pick yourself up by the bootstraps' mentality.

LOL! Talk to a public defender and get back to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers never seem to be aware of how benefits work outside of the teaching profession.

How much do teachers pay for their health insurance?

How much do teachers pay for their retirement? In DCPS, it is 8%.

What do teachers get for their retirement? Suppose a teacher worked from 25-65. They'd earn more than 75% of their salary as a defined benefit retirement package. Find me a private sector job in which you received 75% of your salary in retirement from just this one prong? (https://dcrb.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcrb/publication/attachments/SPD_Teachers_Plan_2017_Final_6-5-2018.pdf)

What does this have to do with the discussion on flexible scheduling?

Everything in life is tradeoffs. You cannot complain about a bad thing without properly judging it as penance for a good thing.

Yes, your schedule is inflexible. But it also includes relatively lavish retirement benefits, summers off, and other perks.

Likewise, cops and military can retire at 20 years with full benefits (instead of the more common 30 years). This isn't some perk-from-nowhere; it is compensation for a job in which they risk their lives and undergo physical hardship.

So, generous retirement has everything to do with inflexible daily schedules since a job is a package of attributes, not just some random things cobbled together without a connection to each other.

Considering teachers are not making it 10+ years in the field, maybe this retirement benefit isn't as big of a carrot as you think it is.

Au contraire: average number of years of teaching experience is about 15 years. See https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/ruraled/tables/tablea3_8.asp

That data is from 2004. I started my career in 03. This job is 3x harder now.

Come on. Don't be so damn lazy. Did you look to see if the number is still accurate?

2012: yep, still accurate (https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass1112_2013314_t12n_003.asp)

2016: yep, still accurate (https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/who-average-us-teacher)

Dig deep and use those critical thinking skills.

Now, let's look at Urbran Districts
https://teachereducation.steinhardt.nyu.edu/high-teacher-turnover/

City is a separate break-out category in the data sources previously posted. Appears the same...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a report from a teacher advocacy group in DC that lists a lot of models for what flexible scheduling could look like: https://www.weareempowered.org/flexiblescheduling.html

I cannot believe the utter freakin’ nerve of that group. Four of their suggestions involve reducing instructional time for kids, when kids are still struggling to recover from the school closures. Seriously, stfu.

Nope. Sorry. It’s 2023. This tired, stale excuse is expired. Try again.

you don’t get to fiat it out of existence.

+1

There are reports coming out on the regular about how children in DC are still impacted by pandemic learning losses caused by s extended school closures. It’s embarrassing that people are ignoring this impact ON CHILDREN.

No one is ignoring this but do you think staffing shortages (teachers, social workers, speech pathologists, aides, etc) have zero impact on children?
We will never be able to fill a gap with staffing shortages or teachers who are so burnt out they aren't giving their best anymore.

You really can't sit here and say 'it's only about children,' because for school staff it is still a job. This is what teachers mean by we are not martyrs, we cannot help our students if we don't have the capacity or means to do so. You must also have known many school budgets were cut and now schools must excess 1-6 staff members.

It’s execrable that you are pulling this again. Stop holding kids hostage. Parents are in favor of more support for teachers, but NOT less classroom time for our kids. Come up with other solutions.

You didn't answer the question or comment on what I said.

How are you going to retain teachers or make up for staffing shortages?

If you don't think this is an issue, you don't care about children. You only care about pretending to be sanctimonious.

Also just an FYI many countries have less classroom time than we do and their schooling is better.
Some countries have much more than we do and STILL aren't doing any better.

I am also not for any remote or virtual days or a 4 days school week. That's not even on the table. But I am for one day a week ending the school day at 1:30pm or 2pm.

yeah, this is what I mean. STOP using classroom time as your bargaining chip. Do you not see how wrong that is? “We will all quit unless you agree to less education for your kid!”

there are other ways to get some flexibility without reducing classroom time. PPs have already caught you out on your lie that it is impossible to take a day off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.

No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.

Teaching is by its nature not a flexible job. And teachers are usually free by 3:15 and all summer … not to mention three weeks of break during the school year.

Teaching is a very flexible job. Summer off, tons of school holidays, nice winter and spring breaks. They finish the day early enough to run errands and do appointments after work. Plus the planning periods during the work day to catch up. Lots of flexibility and perks.

There are a lot of perks to teaching (and tons if hard work) but it is not flexible. It is one of the few jobs where you cannot take off without doing a ton of work to prepare for that absence (or deal with the consequences of your kids not learning and bring a mess for the sub). The summer off is great but I feel lucky my husband has a more flexible programming job. He winds up taking care of covering all sick kid days and random couple of hours off to meet plumber or similar things. It is really stressful to be absent as a teacher. We do have the school breaks but no flexibility in taking off. So yes- teachers get more days off than most but the job is not flexible.

What are you talking about? This is true of every white-collar job.

Really? When my programmer friends take off a day sick they are not expected to provide detailed plans for another unrelated person to continue writing their code. They just pick up where they left off when they returned. When my friends in HR take off they don’t need to leave detailed plans for a random person to read applications for them for the day. When my dentist is out sick my appointment is rescheduled. When I held a non-teaching admin job at my school I could take off and pick everything up the day I returned. I’m not saying there is no pressure not to take off in other jobs. I’m not saying you might not face scrutiny if you take off too much. I’m not saying it might not be hard to take off if you have a deadline looming. But what job do you need to put together detailed plans for someone you’ve never met to do your actual job for the day if you need to take a day off? And yes I know many teachers leave nothing or super crappy plans for the sub but let’s assume we are talking about a teacher trying to set up a decent day for their students.

So it sounds like teaching is a job that is less flexible (from 8-3) than some other jobs. So you need to accept that, or find flexibility in other ways compatible with the job duties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm very concerned that "flexible scheduling" means a 4-day week.

You should be. That was floated in the advocacy document.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers never seem to be aware of how benefits work outside of the teaching profession.

How much do teachers pay for their health insurance?

How much do teachers pay for their retirement? In DCPS, it is 8%.

What do teachers get for their retirement? Suppose a teacher worked from 25-65. They'd earn more than 75% of their salary as a defined benefit retirement package. Find me a private sector job in which you received 75% of your salary in retirement from just this one prong? (https://dcrb.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcrb/publication/attachments/SPD_Teachers_Plan_2017_Final_6-5-2018.pdf)

What does this have to do with the discussion on flexible scheduling?

Everything in life is tradeoffs. You cannot complain about a bad thing without properly judging it as penance for a good thing.

Yes, your schedule is inflexible. But it also includes relatively lavish retirement benefits, summers off, and other perks.

Likewise, cops and military can retire at 20 years with full benefits (instead of the more common 30 years). This isn't some perk-from-nowhere; it is compensation for a job in which they risk their lives and undergo physical hardship.

So, generous retirement has everything to do with inflexible daily schedules since a job is a package of attributes, not just some random things cobbled together without a connection to each other.

Considering teachers are not making it 10+ years in the field, maybe this retirement benefit isn't as big of a carrot as you think it is.

Au contraire: average number of years of teaching experience is about 15 years. See https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2007/ruraled/tables/tablea3_8.asp

That data is from 2004. I started my career in 03. This job is 3x harder now.

Come on. Don't be so damn lazy. Did you look to see if the number is still accurate?

2012: yep, still accurate (https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass1112_2013314_t12n_003.asp)

2016: yep, still accurate (https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/who-average-us-teacher)

Dig deep and use those critical thinking skills.

Let’s look at 2022 data. As long as you give old data, we have nothing to work with. A lot has changed in the past decade. The job doesn’t even resemble what it was just a few years ago.

My department has lost 80% of its teachers in the past 5 years… all leaving for other professions. The replacements also quit. This is not unique.

There’s a reason for the teacher shortage. The conditions are dreadful. You can choose not to believe it, or you can listen to those of us who remain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.

No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.

Teaching is by its nature not a flexible job. And teachers are usually free by 3:15 and all summer … not to mention three weeks of break during the school year.

Teaching is a very flexible job. Summer off, tons of school holidays, nice winter and spring breaks. They finish the day early enough to run errands and do appointments after work. Plus the planning periods during the work day to catch up. Lots of flexibility and perks.

There are a lot of perks to teaching (and tons if hard work) but it is not flexible. It is one of the few jobs where you cannot take off without doing a ton of work to prepare for that absence (or deal with the consequences of your kids not learning and bring a mess for the sub). The summer off is great but I feel lucky my husband has a more flexible programming job. He winds up taking care of covering all sick kid days and random couple of hours off to meet plumber or similar things. It is really stressful to be absent as a teacher. We do have the school breaks but no flexibility in taking off. So yes- teachers get more days off than most but the job is not flexible.

What are you talking about? This is true of every white-collar job.

Really? When my programmer friends take off a day sick they are not expected to provide detailed plans for another unrelated person to continue writing their code. They just pick up where they left off when they returned. When my friends in HR take off they don’t need to leave detailed plans for a random person to read applications for them for the day. When my dentist is out sick my appointment is rescheduled. When I held a non-teaching admin job at my school I could take off and pick everything up the day I returned. I’m not saying there is no pressure not to take off in other jobs. I’m not saying you might not face scrutiny if you take off too much. I’m not saying it might not be hard to take off if you have a deadline looming. But what job do you need to put together detailed plans for someone you’ve never met to do your actual job for the day if you need to take a day off? And yes I know many teachers leave nothing or super crappy plans for the sub but let’s assume we are talking about a teacher trying to set up a decent day for their students.

So it sounds like teaching is a job that is less flexible (from 8-3) than some other jobs. So you need to accept that, or find flexibility in other ways compatible with the job duties.

I think the point made at the beginning of this thread, is that its not the teachers that need to accept this or continue to be flexible. Teachers are making it pretty clear this is unsustainable from a QoL and all of the "My job is also hard" or "but you have summers off" or "retirement benefits" aren't going to sway them, regardless of your personal opinion.

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Anonymous wrote:This sounds like a nightmare for schools. How are they going to cover teachers regularly being out for half a day? My kid has an IEP and the teachers are legally required to be present for the meetings, and it's hard enough to coordinate coverage for that.

No
Ma’am. They are required to give input.
Schools had better start offering work settings that mirror the work from home perks.

Teaching is by its nature not a flexible job. And teachers are usually free by 3:15 and all summer … not to mention three weeks of break during the school year.

Teaching is a very flexible job. Summer off, tons of school holidays, nice winter and spring breaks. They finish the day early enough to run errands and do appointments after work. Plus the planning periods during the work day to catch up. Lots of flexibility and perks.

There are a lot of perks to teaching (and tons if hard work) but it is not flexible. It is one of the few jobs where you cannot take off without doing a ton of work to prepare for that absence (or deal with the consequences of your kids not learning and bring a mess for the sub). The summer off is great but I feel lucky my husband has a more flexible programming job. He winds up taking care of covering all sick kid days and random couple of hours off to meet plumber or similar things. It is really stressful to be absent as a teacher. We do have the school breaks but no flexibility in taking off. So yes- teachers get more days off than most but the job is not flexible.

What are you talking about? This is true of every white-collar job.

Really? When my programmer friends take off a day sick they are not expected to provide detailed plans for another unrelated person to continue writing their code. They just pick up where they left off when they returned. When my friends in HR take off they don’t need to leave detailed plans for a random person to read applications for them for the day. When my dentist is out sick my appointment is rescheduled. When I held a non-teaching admin job at my school I could take off and pick everything up the day I returned. I’m not saying there is no pressure not to take off in other jobs. I’m not saying you might not face scrutiny if you take off too much. I’m not saying it might not be hard to take off if you have a deadline looming. But what job do you need to put together detailed plans for someone you’ve never met to do your actual job for the day if you need to take a day off? And yes I know many teachers leave nothing or super crappy plans for the sub but let’s assume we are talking about a teacher trying to set up a decent day for their students.

So it sounds like teaching is a job that is less flexible (from 8-3) than some other jobs. So you need to accept that, or find flexibility in other ways compatible with the job duties.

I think the point made at the beginning of this thread, is that its not the teachers that need to accept this or continue to be flexible. Teachers are making it pretty clear this is unsustainable from a QoL and all of the "My job is also hard" or "but you have summers off" or "retirement benefits" aren't going to sway them, regardless of your personal opinion.

They should take another job. Just to show I'm not a jerk, I'll support an 18-month hire-back guarantee. Clocks starts when the decide to take me up on it. They're first lesson will be "jesus christ, it's hard to find a job nowadays."

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Anonymous wrote:Here's a report from a teacher advocacy group in DC that lists a lot of models for what flexible scheduling could look like: https://www.weareempowered.org/flexiblescheduling.html

I cannot believe the utter freakin’ nerve of that group. Four of their suggestions involve reducing instructional time for kids, when kids are still struggling to recover from the school closures. Seriously, stfu.

Nope. Sorry. It’s 2023. This tired, stale excuse is expired. Try again.

you don’t get to fiat it out of existence.

+1

There are reports coming out on the regular about how children in DC are still impacted by pandemic learning losses caused by s extended school closures. It’s embarrassing that people are ignoring this impact ON CHILDREN.

No one is ignoring this but do you think staffing shortages (teachers, social workers, speech pathologists, aides, etc) have zero impact on children?
We will never be able to fill a gap with staffing shortages or teachers who are so burnt out they aren't giving their best anymore.

You really can't sit here and say 'it's only about children,' because for school staff it is still a job. This is what teachers mean by we are not martyrs, we cannot help our students if we don't have the capacity or means to do so. You must also have known many school budgets were cut and now schools must excess 1-6 staff members.

It’s execrable that you are pulling this again. Stop holding kids hostage. Parents are in favor of more support for teachers, but NOT less classroom time for our kids. Come up with other solutions.

You didn't answer the question or comment on what I said.

How are you going to retain teachers or make up for staffing shortages?

If you don't think this is an issue, you don't care about children. You only care about pretending to be sanctimonious.

Also just an FYI many countries have less classroom time than we do and their schooling is better.
Some countries have much more than we do and STILL aren't doing any better.

I am also not for any remote or virtual days or a 4 days school week. That's not even on the table. But I am for one day a week ending the school day at 1:30pm or 2pm.

yeah, this is what I mean. STOP using classroom time as your bargaining chip. Do you not see how wrong that is? “We will all quit unless you agree to less education for your kid!”

there are other ways to get some flexibility without reducing classroom time. PPs have already caught you out on your lie that it is impossible to take a day off.

The honest answer- coming from a non-teacher who has plenty of family and friends who are teachers- is more teachers and more aides. There need to be PRN teachers- gen ed educated and educated in classroom management- who can cover classrooms throughout the day. Something like 1 PRN teacher per 250 kids, which is my suggestion but I know there are people in analytics who could come up with a more precise number. Each teacher should have 1 aide- again trained and educated in classroom management- per 10 kids, exclusive of SN/IEP status, which is separate. Teachers would be contractually limited to 4 classes AND 3 preps in the same course/topic or 2 preps with different courses/topics. For example, if a science teacher is needed for 4 classes, 3 biology, and 1 physics they would be limited to those 2 preps but still teaching 4 classes. Conversely, a foreign language teacher with 4 classes in the same language could have 3 different preps including AP.

If teachers could get back their planning periods, have coverage to see their kid for a Christmas concert or volunteer in their classrooms, etc. there would be a LOT more satisfaction with teaching. Schools need better ratios. There need to be multiple reading specialists and counselors in each school.