Why do donut hole families

[Anonymous]

It’s really irritating that you have to pay $80k a year and there is no way it actually costs $80k a year. You are subsidizing all the kids who pay less than $80k a year. There is no way I can afford to pay $80k a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's because it just feels unfair to people that if they were richer or poorer, their kids might have more options. It isn't necessarily unfair, or maybe it is, but this is how people feel. I also think that many donut hole families have parents who attended top private universities at a time when they were more affordable and it is a shock that their kids can't do the same, even though they have been saving for years. We are not a donut hole family, so this is just my guess as to how people feel.

But the "poor people have more options" thing is a myth.

I think that people who complain about being a "donut hole" family are implying that things are better on the other side of the hole. But in reality, it isn't. And continuing to use the term when that's been pointed out, is basically a dog whistle, because once you know how college financial aid works, complaining about being a donut hole family means that you think that actual middle class (not DCUM middle class) and low income families don't deserve what you deserve, which is affordable college choices for their kids.

Now, if you want to complaining that EFC's are unrealistic for many families. Or that college costs too much. Yes! Those are very valid complaints, and things worth advocating around. But the idea that college is only a financial burden for some subset of kinda rich but not very rich people is simply untrue.

I am in the donut hole and I had more options for college with parents who made today's equivalent of $55k HHI. I went to a private school on academic & need based scholarships, pell grants, part time employment, and a total of $28k student loans that was easy to pay off because they were federally subsidized.

My kids are fortunate and I'm sure will do fine, but it would be foolish to pretend their options aren't limited financially. Our oldest is probably going to start at NOVA for 2 years and transition to an in-state university. We are lucky that as VA residents we have such a strong community college with this kind of option. Where I grew up, community college was a dead end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

I actually agree with you. So background, we have $250k HHI, $3M investment portfolio, house paid off.

Yeah, we can afford any college. Probably. For three kids though??

And is private or out of state worth it? No, I don't think so.

If we made $600k, that would be a different story. If we had $6M in stocks instead of $3M, that would also be different.

So I think we've made decent choices along the way about cars and houses and whatnot. But I consider us donut hole because we're too wealthy for financial aid, but not wealthy enough for a $350k undergraduate degree to be a drop in the bucket.

Once again, it's about choices. You choose to have 3 kids. We looked at the full cost of raising kids when we decided to stop at 2, with college costs being a huge reason. Our kids are 4 years apart, so only 1 would likely be in college at the same time.

If you truly want your kid to attend a T20, you have the money and could redirect it that way. I agree---I would not spend that much in your financial situation. I'd have the kid go instate or search out private schools that offer merit (you can find this in the 30-100 rankings, if you search). You have decided that ~$40-50K/instate costs is what you are willing to spend, and that is OKAY (and a smart choice). You choose to have 3 kids, so you are looking at $600K all in for in-state---if you only had 2 kids, you might choose to spend the same $600K and send them to $80K schools.
But in grand scheme, you and your kids are extremely privileged. You are in the top 1-2%.

All of this but also who are these storied families for whom $350k is a “drop in the bucket”? No one ever said the expectation is that you should only have to be full pay if you wouldn’t even notice the expense. The expectation is actually that it takes sacrifice to send your kids to school. Low income families are struggling to come up with the plane ticket price. Full pay families are certainly pinched by COA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

“You have nearly two decades to save” - what?? Two decades ago, no one thought colleges would cost $90K/year. No one saved at that rate PER KID back then, if they were also paying off student loans, buying a house, etc.

Yes, you have nearly two decades to save. People have been complaining about the rising college costs for far far longer. It has been an annual news story since the 1970’s. Ignorance is not an excuse. People have been prioritizing saving for college for generations. You don’t have to pay $90k per year. There are PLENTY of excellent much lower cost options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s because they’re downwardly mobile. They themselves sent to the best school they could get into but they can’t afford to do the same for their kids. This feels unfair so they complain.

This is not downwardly mobile. They are in a position to send their kids to college debt free. You don't have to go to a top 20 school to be successful in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s really irritating that you have to pay $80k a year and there is no way it actually costs $80k a year. You are subsidizing all the kids who pay less than $80k a year. There is no way I can afford to pay $80k a year.

Luckily, you don’t have to pay $80k a year. No one has to pay $80k a year, there are tons of lower cost options available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because $25K+ a year for tuition room and board is an awful lot of money even for families that make a good living. Especially if you have multiple kids.

This is true, but I think OP is referring to families that can afford $60k/year, but not $90k/year.

That’s not a donut hole family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Complain about being a donut hole family? When there are thousands of colleges that could work between in state options and merit aid at lower tier privates and other oos public’s?l is it bc ivies and top 25 are not options?

Its because their kids don't get judged on their ability but on their parental assets and can't attend schools they are eligible for or want to attend. Unless parents are willing to sacrifice their hard earned savings and risk retirement , kids often can't afford anything but community college or some regional state campus with merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

Not all colleges. There are plenty of excellent colleges that are much cheaper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really irritating that you have to pay $80k a year and there is no way it actually costs $80k a year. You are subsidizing all the kids who pay less than $80k a year. There is no way I can afford to pay $80k a year.

Luckily, you don’t have to pay $80k a year. No one has to pay $80k a year, there are tons of lower cost options available.

Then why won't financial aid families send their kids to those colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

I'm sorry but this statement is out of touch (and I'm not donut hole). How can you lump everyone (people you do not know) into a category that assumes they recklessly indulged. Sure, there are people like this - but to assume anyone without resources to pay for college is in this category is ludicrous. Most of this country cannot afford to pay for private universities without taking out loans.

This the way it has always been. Now people think they are entitled to it.

This! My parents couldn’t afford a T50 private school when I graduated HS in 2005. I also didn’t get anywhere approaching a full ride anywhere. So I went to a state school. So freaking what??

Same for me in 1994. Got a decent scholarship for an out of state flagship that brought tuition down below instate. Guess where I went? Not the T25 schools that I desperately wanted. My parents were hardcore savers, but not high earners and had other kids to think about, too. That’s just how it goes.

[Anonymous]

College costs are too high without scholarships or financial aid. Its like healthcare, unless you have good insurance or are poor enough for charity, its too expensive to receive care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

Not all colleges. There are plenty of excellent colleges that are much cheaper.

Name an excellent college for a Virginia resident that's comparable to what a Florida resident would pay for UF

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.