Why is there always some kind of issue/concern/problem with TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The students who shared the test questions did break the rules.

Parents and students sign a statement that says they will not discuss the test. Ever. The stated penalty for breaking that rule is admissions will be withdrawn or removed from TJ.

None of this happened.

Cheating in the school (before the pandemic) is a big problem but students are not expelled for it.

By your logic, it doesn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

Actually, Asians do not speak up enough and do not protest enough. Many times, Asians just grin and bear. This is the reason that most anti Asian hate crimes go unreported. Actually, Asians should learn from the 'preferred group' regarding how to demonstrate, protest, complain, form advocacy groups and otherwise create mayhem to draw attention to this 'victimhood' you have mentioned. Maybe the main stream media (as opposed to local media) would start covering horrific violence committed against Asians every single day if the victims actually made sure that the media would pay some attention if enough mayhem was created.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Actually, there are just as many if not more studies that show the value of tests such as SAT to be valuable and even more so if combined with GPAs. The primary reason for eliminating the objective tests is to give further advantage to this 'preferred minority group' at the expense of other groups such as Asians and whites.

In addition, how do you know whether I was born in the US or which country I am from if I was not born in this country? Furthermore, politicians and school boards are the ones in positions to take advantage of anything to take advantage of not the Asians in this country.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

Caltech is one of few top 20 universities that have eliminated, legacy, affirmative action etc. but kept and will keep test scores as one of the main citerion for admission decisions. The testing is not an inherent advantage for any particular group just like GPAs are not an inherent advantage for any particular group. However, systematically removing objective measures that the 'preferred minority group' is performing poorly at would be another evidence that the 'preferred minority group' is indeed enjoying this 'preferred status' at the expense of the disfavored group lacking political influence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

The above situation certainly equates to collateral damage and discrimination based on race which is illegal in this country although it may be legal where yo come from and for your community.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

This really comes across as if you're exorcising your personal demons at the expense of many others who played by the rules and deserved to be recognized for their achievements, but were turned away because folks like you decided TJ was too intense and had too many Asian kids.

And there's just no acknowledgment of the fact that what is now replacing the tests that you consider so marginal to future success is ripe with the potential for even more abuse in the hands of people incentivized to please their political masters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

The previous pp is resentful because they don’t present as gifted themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

I think the poster to whom you're responded also perfected the skill of making arguments that appeal to those on the left who simply want to diversify TJ for the sake of diversification and need someone to come up with rationales that sound superficially sophisticated for doing so. That's why they loaded up their posts with references to terms like "market inefficiencies" and implied that scoring high on tests is overwhelmingly an acquired skill that's not in any way related to real-life demands. Thanks for exposing the sophistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

Because changing it to an Academy would only serve a larger number of students if you rebuilt about 2/3 of the present school building at an enormous cost.

This seems like a made up assertion. Even if, for example, kids weren’t taking gym at an Academy program, the gym could still be retained and made available for local community use.

Maybe but wish they'd go back to the older process where we could just buy access to the admission test. It was so much better.

Do you have any evidence that anyone could buy TJ test in past? Can you point to an article?

DP but you have heard of Curie, right?

So you know for certain that test center had access to test questions or you heard it here? There has to be some sort of evidence/article pointing to it right?

Yes. TJ students who actually attended Curie have said it repeatedly, using their real names on Facebook. And they were on the lists that Curie published.

Now, had this been a prep center that exclusively catered to Black students instead of catering exclusively to Indian students, I guarantee you that Asra Nomani and Harry Jackson would have been all over it and there would be a New York Post article about it. But the left doesn't have the same people with the same free time, connections, and personal wealth to pursue reporting on the matter, and Curie has since scrubbed its Facebook page of the infamous "lists".

So were these students expelled from TJ since they rig the system?

What they did wasn't against any rules - which is why there can't really be a meaningful investigation into the matter. They simply exposed a major problem with the admissions process as previously constructed, and at least in part inspired some long-needed changes.

The students who shared the test questions did break the rules.

Parents and students sign a statement that says they will not discuss the test. Ever. The stated penalty for breaking that rule is admissions will be withdrawn or removed from TJ.

None of this happened.

No one knows who shared the questions - that's the problem. And I highly doubt that Curie is about to publicly identify the kids who made them millions of dollars by doing so. It's unclear whether or not any of the kids who shared the questions actually got into TJ or AOS or AET.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

I think the poster to whom you're responded also perfected the skill of making arguments that appeal to those on the left who simply want to diversify TJ for the sake of diversification and need someone to come up with rationales that sound superficially sophisticated for doing so. That's why they loaded up their posts with references to terms like "market inefficiencies" and implied that scoring high on tests is overwhelmingly an acquired skill that's not in any way related to real-life demands. Thanks for exposing the sophistry.

It is. I know because I acquired it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

I think the poster to whom you're responded also perfected the skill of making arguments that appeal to those on the left who simply want to diversify TJ for the sake of diversification and need someone to come up with rationales that sound superficially sophisticated for doing so. That's why they loaded up their posts with references to terms like "market inefficiencies" and implied that scoring high on tests is overwhelmingly an acquired skill that's not in any way related to real-life demands. Thanks for exposing the sophistry.

It is. I know because I acquired it.

I'm sure your self-loathing puts you in good stead with the anti-merit brigade. For everyone else, it's rather tiring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

I think the poster to whom you're responded also perfected the skill of making arguments that appeal to those on the left who simply want to diversify TJ for the sake of diversification and need someone to come up with rationales that sound superficially sophisticated for doing so. That's why they loaded up their posts with references to terms like "market inefficiencies" and implied that scoring high on tests is overwhelmingly an acquired skill that's not in any way related to real-life demands. Thanks for exposing the sophistry.

It is. I know because I acquired it.

I'm sure your self-loathing puts you in good stead with the anti-merit brigade. For everyone else, it's rather tiring.

How does buying test answers equate to merit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

I think the poster to whom you're responded also perfected the skill of making arguments that appeal to those on the left who simply want to diversify TJ for the sake of diversification and need someone to come up with rationales that sound superficially sophisticated for doing so. That's why they loaded up their posts with references to terms like "market inefficiencies" and implied that scoring high on tests is overwhelmingly an acquired skill that's not in any way related to real-life demands. Thanks for exposing the sophistry.

It is. I know because I acquired it.

I'm sure your self-loathing puts you in good stead with the anti-merit brigade. For everyone else, it's rather tiring.

How does buying test answers equate to merit?

Ever hear of throwing the baby out with the bath water?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

I think the poster to whom you're responded also perfected the skill of making arguments that appeal to those on the left who simply want to diversify TJ for the sake of diversification and need someone to come up with rationales that sound superficially sophisticated for doing so. That's why they loaded up their posts with references to terms like "market inefficiencies" and implied that scoring high on tests is overwhelmingly an acquired skill that's not in any way related to real-life demands. Thanks for exposing the sophistry.

It is. I know because I acquired it.

I'm sure your self-loathing puts you in good stead with the anti-merit brigade. For everyone else, it's rather tiring.

How does buying test answers equate to merit?

Nobody bought the test answers. It has been explained ad nauseam to you, and yet you keep spewing the same garbage on every thread. You're also most likely the "backdoor" poster on the AAP threads. Either you're a troll, or you're a complete idiot. Just stop and go away. The adults here want to have a productive discussion that isn't constantly interrupted by your nonsense.

[Anonymous]

People will constantly kvetch that someone else has an unfair advantage when it comes to getting into TJ.

One group will complain about test-prepped kids and the need for “equity.”

Another will point out the absurdity of funneling the most advanced kids into AAP centers and then treating non-AAP centers the same as AAP centers when allocating TJ seats.

Reid is big on saying “imagine the possibilities” and the one many of us would like to imagine is a school system that wasn’t so preoccupied with one school in a county with 200 schools.

[Anonymous]

The time for TJ had passed. Just shut it down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BECAUSE Asian Americans are collateral damage for the benefit of preferred minority group.

This victimhood narrative is so tiresome.

You deserve credit for recognizing that there was a market inefficiency in elite college admissions - standardized test scores. They were overvalued by many of the most prestigious institutions both in your countries of origin and here in the US for many years, and so you designed your parenting and educational philosophy around taking advantage of that market inefficiency.

Institutions like Caltech - through years of research - have determined that standardized test scores are NOT a predictive measure of future success or competency and can indeed be an occluding factor in a selection process, and so they've moved away from using that metric. This advancement in research has removed an advantage for you and your community as a consequence.

That does NOT equate to collateral damage. And it does NOT equate to discrimination of any kind. We're just not using the metric that you're best at anymore because it selects the wrong kids.

Of all the funniest things posted on this forum, the suggestion that FCPS - an overwhelmed, declining school system - can bring the same analytical rigor to bear as an institution like CalTech when trying to evaluate applications without the benefit of objective metrics - may be the most hilarious.

You just want to discriminate against Asians and find a way to justify it. The joke will be on you, however, as those very kids whose families you resent so much for their commitment to education are the ones that led to TJ's top ranking. Without them, TJ's reputation will decline and it will simply be a better alternative for kids attending the county's worst high schools and an increasingly unattractive option for those attending the county's handful of remaining high-quality high schools.

Ehh. I don't resent them for their commitment to education at all. Far from it.

What I resent is their persistent belief that they have a monopoly on a commitment to education and the very narrow view that they have of what in the educational process is actually important to creating adults who are prepared to contribute to society. I reject the idea that test-taking ability is of some great value for any endeavor other than school admissions, and I strongly reject the notion that only students who are excellent test-takers belong in outstanding educational environments.

Test-taking is a skill - one that I learned at a very early age and that is largely responsible for my admission to TJ. It isn't that hard to learn how to be good at taking tests without necessarily having the content knowledge to succeed on them. But it does not have relevance to the real world outside of the process of getting admitted to selective schools or other institutions.

Where I will agree with you is that those same students are absolutely responsible for TJ's high rankings over the years - explicitly because of an inappropriate over-reliance on test scores in high school ranking algorithms. Those algorithms did nothing to determine whether or not a school was doing anything to educate its students - they merely determined how good the school was at cobbling together a core group of great test takers. Asians prioritize the development of test taking skills because they know that it used to be the secret to educational prestige through presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were.

Unfortunately your argument completely falls apart when you consider that the Asians you are referring to are literally the core group of people at the cutting edge of research into science, tech, and engineering. Yep, it's that group of people that companies can't find enough of and need to do whatever it takes to pull to the US to fill these jobs, all because most people in this country aren't even remotely close to being qualified. So if you really want to go there and talk about "presenting students as more gifted/bright/intelligent than they actually were", please go take a look at any research or engineering positions and tell us who is filling the overwhelming majority of those spots.

The previous pp is resentful because they don’t present as gifted themselves.

When a fairly average kid preps to give the illusion of giftedness is it really any different than being truly gifted?