Why is there always some kind of issue/concern/problem with TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS created the definition of a scarce good when it created TJ so it’s a case study in supply-induced demand. Fights ensue.

That - plus it’s a testament to the hypocrisy of the current School Board that they constantly blather about “equity” but spend a disproportionate amount of time tinkering with processes at a school that is only attended by 3% of FCPS students in high school. The last thing in the world they actually care about are equal outcomes; they just want preferential outcomes distributed in a way that benefits them at the polls.

First of all, they don't spend a disproportionate amount of time tinkering with the process. The TJ Admissions Office does that - because it's their job.

The School Board would love nothing more than to stop talking about TJ and its admissions process, but a small group of parents looking to make a quick buck or launch their political careers continue to make an issue out of it.

Such BS on your part. Obviously you are happy with what you think the new process is at TJ, but you're delusional if you think TJ would just hum merrily along but for a "small group of parents."

Scott Brabrand was losing his support among the School Board for his overall incompetence when he seized upon the idea of changing TJ admissions as a way to work himself back into the good graces of the School Board. The School Board then spent countless hours in work sessions debating the TJ admissions change, and a TON of staff time was required to try and map out what the potential impacts of different options might be. Meanwhile other pressing issues in FCPS - learning loss due to Covid, severe overcrowding at some schools - went entirely unaddressed. All because people always see TJ as a vehicle to demonstrate their political chops and bona fides.

You folks want to claim the controversy all started with the Coalition for TJ and Asra Nomani, but it long predates that. Before the Coalition for TJ, there was the Fairfax NAACP filing a complaint with the federal Department of Education demanding an investigation into TJ's admissions practices. And before that there were other challenges. It's always something, and people will still be finding things to fight about over TJ as long as it's a selective magnet, and long after the Coalition for TJ and Asra Nomani have moved on to something else.

I thought they changed the process to counter the rampant cheating that was unfairly skewing admission to wealthy families who invested heavily in prep to buy test access.

+1

If that was the reason, it wasn't articulated at the time by, you know, the people like Brabrand and Corbett Sanders who actually pushed for the changes. For Brabrand, it was about "George Floyd" and for Corbett Sanders it was about "not enough kids at TJ from my district."

There were lots of reasons to change the admissions process. Why are you singling out those?

Because they were the reasons articulated by the school officials actually responsible for the decision, as opposed to after-the-fact justifications that a few DCUM posters came up with and spout incessantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS created the definition of a scarce good when it created TJ so it’s a case study in supply-induced demand. Fights ensue.

That - plus it’s a testament to the hypocrisy of the current School Board that they constantly blather about “equity” but spend a disproportionate amount of time tinkering with processes at a school that is only attended by 3% of FCPS students in high school. The last thing in the world they actually care about are equal outcomes; they just want preferential outcomes distributed in a way that benefits them at the polls.

First of all, they don't spend a disproportionate amount of time tinkering with the process. The TJ Admissions Office does that - because it's their job.

The School Board would love nothing more than to stop talking about TJ and its admissions process, but a small group of parents looking to make a quick buck or launch their political careers continue to make an issue out of it.

Such BS on your part. Obviously you are happy with what you think the new process is at TJ, but you're delusional if you think TJ would just hum merrily along but for a "small group of parents."

Scott Brabrand was losing his support among the School Board for his overall incompetence when he seized upon the idea of changing TJ admissions as a way to work himself back into the good graces of the School Board. The School Board then spent countless hours in work sessions debating the TJ admissions change, and a TON of staff time was required to try and map out what the potential impacts of different options might be. Meanwhile other pressing issues in FCPS - learning loss due to Covid, severe overcrowding at some schools - went entirely unaddressed. All because people always see TJ as a vehicle to demonstrate their political chops and bona fides.

You folks want to claim the controversy all started with the Coalition for TJ and Asra Nomani, but it long predates that. Before the Coalition for TJ, there was the Fairfax NAACP filing a complaint with the federal Department of Education demanding an investigation into TJ's admissions practices. And before that there were other challenges. It's always something, and people will still be finding things to fight about over TJ as long as it's a selective magnet, and long after the Coalition for TJ and Asra Nomani have moved on to something else.

I thought they changed the process to counter the rampant cheating that was unfairly skewing admission to wealthy families who invested heavily in prep to buy test access.

+1

If that was the reason, it wasn't articulated at the time by, you know, the people like Brabrand and Corbett Sanders who actually pushed for the changes. For Brabrand, it was about "George Floyd" and for Corbett Sanders it was about "not enough kids at TJ from my district."

There were lots of reasons to change the admissions process. Why are you singling out those?

Because they were the reasons articulated by the school officials actually responsible for the decision, as opposed to after-the-fact justifications that a few DCUM posters came up with and spout incessantly.

These are before-the-fact reasons, fwiw. How long have you been following the issues at TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS created the definition of a scarce good when it created TJ so it’s a case study in supply-induced demand. Fights ensue.

That - plus it’s a testament to the hypocrisy of the current School Board that they constantly blather about “equity” but spend a disproportionate amount of time tinkering with processes at a school that is only attended by 3% of FCPS students in high school. The last thing in the world they actually care about are equal outcomes; they just want preferential outcomes distributed in a way that benefits them at the polls.

First of all, they don't spend a disproportionate amount of time tinkering with the process. The TJ Admissions Office does that - because it's their job.

The School Board would love nothing more than to stop talking about TJ and its admissions process, but a small group of parents looking to make a quick buck or launch their political careers continue to make an issue out of it.

Such BS on your part. Obviously you are happy with what you think the new process is at TJ, but you're delusional if you think TJ would just hum merrily along but for a "small group of parents."

Scott Brabrand was losing his support among the School Board for his overall incompetence when he seized upon the idea of changing TJ admissions as a way to work himself back into the good graces of the School Board. The School Board then spent countless hours in work sessions debating the TJ admissions change, and a TON of staff time was required to try and map out what the potential impacts of different options might be. Meanwhile other pressing issues in FCPS - learning loss due to Covid, severe overcrowding at some schools - went entirely unaddressed. All because people always see TJ as a vehicle to demonstrate their political chops and bona fides.

You folks want to claim the controversy all started with the Coalition for TJ and Asra Nomani, but it long predates that. Before the Coalition for TJ, there was the Fairfax NAACP filing a complaint with the federal Department of Education demanding an investigation into TJ's admissions practices. And before that there were other challenges. It's always something, and people will still be finding things to fight about over TJ as long as it's a selective magnet, and long after the Coalition for TJ and Asra Nomani have moved on to something else.

So many issues with this response.

1) Regardless of any political preferences, it was not an option to use the old process for the selection of the Class of 2025. Administering an in-person exam for the number of students required would not have been feasible in any way during a part of the pandemic when it was manifestly unsafe to put kids in school together, and there would have been no way to administer the exam online without introducing a huge possibility of cheating. Assessing the free-response Student Information Sheet was possible because of the subjective nature of its evaluation, but doing the Quant-Q or ACT Aspire exams was not. Therefore, inarguably, they were going to have to come up with a different process and the extreme interest of certain groups in TJ meant that that process was going to be fraught no matter how they went about it. So much for that point.

2) Agree with you that many people do see TJ as a vehicle to demonstrate their political chops. Suparna Dutta certainly did as much before her nomination to the Virginia BOE was rejected yesterday - thank goodness. Harry Jackson is trying to do as much but is getting roundly rejected by voters in his own district... too bad, so sad.

3) The NAACP filed several complaints. None of them went anywhere. I'm not even sure an actual investigation took place. A lot of people demand things in this part of the world but that doesn't mean they actually happen.

4) If the Coalition and Asra are going to move on to something else, would they mind very much just going ahead and doing it already? It's hard to see them pulling together enough School Board votes to make a change, and Dr. Reid certainly doesn't seem in any rush to move on the current process.

There are just as many issues with your response.

1) Whatever shortcuts were adopted for the Class of 2025 due to Covid-related exigencies, they would not have become permanent features of a new admissions process unless a group of highly motivated, left wing politicians and their allies saw Covid not as a crisis, but instead as an opportunity to effect longer-term changes to TJ admissions.

2) Dutta and Jackson are two examples of Republican activists who have centered their activism around objections to the TJ admissions changes; there are just as many on the left (Vanessa Hall, Jorge Torrico, Makya Little, Sujatha Hampton, Karen Keys Gamarra) who have centered their activism and sought to raise their profiles by rallying behind the changes. The original point is that the controversy never ends, and that those who simply wish for that to be case because they are happy with the current state of play are engaging in wishful thinking of the highest order.

3) The Fairfax NAACP complaints led to a federal DOE investigation in 2012, but not to adverse findings. https://patch.com/virginia/fallschurch/education-dept-investigating-discrimination-complaint62b6e496cf Subsequently, the Fairfax NAACP renewed its complaints. All this predated the 2020 changes to TJ's admissions policies and the lawsuits filed in state and federal court by the Coalition for TJ and affiliated groups. Again, TJ has been a political hot potato for many years, and there's no indication this will cease.

4) The groups like the Coalition for TJ are not counting on the FCPS School Board to change the new/current TJ admissions policy. They are looking to get a few members on the board in the fall 2023 elections who can publicly rail against the other members for not reinstituting a more rigorous TJ admissions process, but looking to the federal courts to overturn the policy adopted by the School Board in 2020. They may be tilting at windmills insofar as the courts are concerned, but for sure they will see what can be mined from the upcoming Supreme Court decisions in the cases involving Harvard and UNC, which are expected by most observers to uphold the plaintiffs' claims of anti-Asian discrimination, that might support their own lawsuit. It's totally disingenuous to suggest they should walk away now with their tails between their legs just because the current School Board and Michelle Reid are mum for now.

So, again, as long as there is a single magnet STEM school in FCPS, various groups will always be fighting over the spoils. The only difference now is that the partisans are harsher in their rhetoric towards each other, and they have more social media platforms to express themselves. But the school itself has been highly divisive from its inception, and always will be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

3) The NAACP filed several complaints. None of them went anywhere. I'm not even sure an actual investigation took place. A lot of people demand things in this part of the world but that doesn't mean they actually happen.

AG investigated Loudoun for more than just magnet admissions and made a finding of discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS created the definition of a scarce good when it created TJ so it’s a case study in supply-induced demand. Fights ensue.

That - plus it’s a testament to the hypocrisy of the current School Board that they constantly blather about “equity” but spend a disproportionate amount of time tinkering with processes at a school that is only attended by 3% of FCPS students in high school. The last thing in the world they actually care about are equal outcomes; they just want preferential outcomes distributed in a way that benefits them at the polls.

First of all, they don't spend a disproportionate amount of time tinkering with the process. The TJ Admissions Office does that - because it's their job.

The School Board would love nothing more than to stop talking about TJ and its admissions process, but a small group of parents looking to make a quick buck or launch their political careers continue to make an issue out of it.

Such BS on your part. Obviously you are happy with what you think the new process is at TJ, but you're delusional if you think TJ would just hum merrily along but for a "small group of parents."

Scott Brabrand was losing his support among the School Board for his overall incompetence when he seized upon the idea of changing TJ admissions as a way to work himself back into the good graces of the School Board. The School Board then spent countless hours in work sessions debating the TJ admissions change, and a TON of staff time was required to try and map out what the potential impacts of different options might be. Meanwhile other pressing issues in FCPS - learning loss due to Covid, severe overcrowding at some schools - went entirely unaddressed. All because people always see TJ as a vehicle to demonstrate their political chops and bona fides.

You folks want to claim the controversy all started with the Coalition for TJ and Asra Nomani, but it long predates that. Before the Coalition for TJ, there was the Fairfax NAACP filing a complaint with the federal Department of Education demanding an investigation into TJ's admissions practices. And before that there were other challenges. It's always something, and people will still be finding things to fight about over TJ as long as it's a selective magnet, and long after the Coalition for TJ and Asra Nomani have moved on to something else.

I thought they changed the process to counter the rampant cheating that was unfairly skewing admission to wealthy families who invested heavily in prep to buy test access.

It sure did not help when it came out in the summer of 2020 that 133 members of the class of 2024 were from one prep company. And then Tj kids started spilling on the FB Group TJ Vents that they had seen the a very similar test (Quant Q was supposed to be secure) ahead of time.

TJ, FCPS and the general public then had the first and last names of the kids that prepped and could see how much the prep was playing into admission.

[Anonymous]

Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because it's the crown jewel of FCPS and was once considered the best school in the country. It's one of the later remainders of the once-sterling reputation FCPS had for being one of the best school districts in the country back in the 1980s.

It's also a school that attracts a hugely disproportionate number of kids from Type A, high SES, tiger mom folks who get super pissed when they perceive their kids' chances of getting into a top 10 college might be even remotely threatened.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

Split the baby? No, thank you, Solomon, we don't want that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

Totally agree, but it's clear the current School Board is more interested in a TJ photo op in a few years showing a more "diverse" group of graduates than in expanding access generally to courses and facilities that are unique to TJ. It's not about serving the most students; it's about demonstrating that more Black and Brown kids can be part of the elite group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

The class size has been expanded. But TJ is a magnet high school, not an academy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

The class size has been expanded. But TJ is a magnet high school, not an academy.

This is a very weak argument. It is a magnet high school because it is a magnet high school.

Okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

The class size has been expanded. But TJ is a magnet high school, not an academy.

This is a very weak argument. It is a magnet high school because it is a magnet high school.

Okay.

The other governor's school that I know of is Maggie Walker. Do you want to turn it into an Academy? No, that wouldn't work. Nor would it work for TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

The class size has been expanded. But TJ is a magnet high school, not an academy.

This is a very weak argument. It is a magnet high school because it is a magnet high school.

Okay.

The other governor's school that I know of is Maggie Walker. Do you want to turn it into an Academy? No, that wouldn't work. Nor would it work for TJ.

Okay, now I understand why your reasoning was so poor.

Google and critical thinking are your friends. There are 19 Governor Schools in Virginia. Most of them operate as Academies or similar to how LCPS runs their magnet programs.

There’s nothing magical about how TJ is currently set up. Just change it and allow more students access to the classes that are only available at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

The class size has been expanded. But TJ is a magnet high school, not an academy.

This is a very weak argument. It is a magnet high school because it is a magnet high school.

Okay.

The other governor's school that I know of is Maggie Walker. Do you want to turn it into an Academy? No, that wouldn't work. Nor would it work for TJ.

Okay, now I understand why your reasoning was so poor.

Google and critical thinking are your friends. There are 19 Governor Schools in Virginia. Most of them operate as Academies or similar to how LCPS runs their magnet programs.

There’s nothing magical about how TJ is currently set up. Just change it and allow more students access to the classes that are only available at TJ.

And you'll be dismantling Maggie Walker next, I assume?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why has there never been a serious discussion about changing TJ to an Academy where any student can take classes?

Or even follow the LCPS model of 1/2 base school and 1/2 magnet program? It makes so much more sense to spread out a limited resource.

The class size has been expanded. But TJ is a magnet high school, not an academy.

This is a very weak argument. It is a magnet high school because it is a magnet high school.

Okay.

The other governor's school that I know of is Maggie Walker. Do you want to turn it into an Academy? No, that wouldn't work. Nor would it work for TJ.

Okay, now I understand why your reasoning was so poor.

Google and critical thinking are your friends. There are 19 Governor Schools in Virginia. Most of them operate as Academies or similar to how LCPS runs their magnet programs.

There’s nothing magical about how TJ is currently set up. Just change it and allow more students access to the classes that are only available at TJ.

+1

And some of the other Govenors Schools are only for students in grades 10-12 or 11-12.