Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are not all the same. This year our teachers are so wonderful we would be willing to sacrifice over the moon for them to be retained, but there have been years when we were eager for our kids to move on from their class.

All reasonable people know that teaching is an extremely difficult job. Many, perhaps most, teachers are overworked. No question.

The fact that people complain so often about bad teachers speaks to what important work teachers do. Most of us can point to one or two amazing teachers in our lives to had a lasting impact on us. Unfortunately, the same can also be true of really bad teachers. When our kids have bad teachers, that puts more stress on us, making us more impatient and judgmental of the entire profession than we should be. Any discussion of the teaching profession has to acknowledge that there are as many duds as stars, just like every other profession. If the discussion begins by characterizing every teacher as a selfless hero, pushback is inevitable. The same applies to other government employees, nurses, or other professions.

Also, I often wonder whether some DCUM posts defending teachers are from real people or trolls looking to cause problems. There is a vocal faction of posters who insist that the responsibility for a kid's education falls entirely on the parents. It doesn't matter what happens in school, whether there is any control in the classroom, how often the teacher is absent, whether they grade before the end of the marking period, answer emails, or provide feedback, etc. We should constantly assess and supplement to ensure our kids are progressing appropriately.

If that is true, we parents must manage our own jobs and do teachers' jobs every step of the way, subject to conditions we have no control over (and often, no information about). If parents are held to higher standards than those getting paid to teach their kids, it's a lot to ask. Maybe it's unfair, but I have definitely felt that way at times, crushed between my professional responsibilities and the consequences of less than desirable situations for my kids at school.

[Anonymous]

I acknowledge it. They are overworked. However, so I am I. I work for DOJ. My salary is somewhat higher than a teacher's, but I am not highly paid, and have to work many weekends and nights (I understand that many teachers work weekends and nights too). Yes, teachers have a very hard job. Yes, they are not paid enough. Yes, I try not to complain about minor things. Yes, kids are difficult. However, teachers are not the only ones who are working a difficult job that is demanding for not that much money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

If you started after 2014 you’re on the hybrid plan and the pension is more like 30%

And in other lines of work it is 0%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

My son graduated from college two years ago. He already makes more than I do as a teacher in year 15.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

My son graduated from college two years ago. He already makes more than I do as a teacher in year 15.

Is he a government employee?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

My son graduated from college two years ago. He already makes more than I do as a teacher in year 15.

You’re leaving out basically every relevant detail, including his school, degree, hours, and leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are not all the same. This year our teachers are so wonderful we would be willing to sacrifice over the moon for them to be retained, but there have been years when we were eager for our kids to move on from their class.

All reasonable people know that teaching is an extremely difficult job. Many, perhaps most, teachers are overworked. No question.

The fact that people complain so often about bad teachers speaks to what important work teachers do. Most of us can point to one or two amazing teachers in our lives to had a lasting impact on us. Unfortunately, the same can also be true of really bad teachers. When our kids have bad teachers, that puts more stress on us, making us more impatient and judgmental of the entire profession than we should be. Any discussion of the teaching profession has to acknowledge that there are as many duds as stars, just like every other profession. If the discussion begins by characterizing every teacher as a selfless hero, pushback is inevitable. The same applies to other government employees, nurses, or other professions.

Also, I often wonder whether some DCUM posts defending teachers are from real people or trolls looking to cause problems. There is a vocal faction of posters who insist that the responsibility for a kid's education falls entirely on the parents. It doesn't matter what happens in school, whether there is any control in the classroom, how often the teacher is absent, whether they grade before the end of the marking period, answer emails, or provide feedback, etc. We should constantly assess and supplement to ensure our kids are progressing appropriately.

If that is true, we parents must manage our own jobs and do teachers' jobs every step of the way, subject to conditions we have no control over (and often, no information about). If parents are held to higher standards than those getting paid to teach their kids, it's a lot to ask. Maybe it's unfair, but I have definitely felt that way at times, crushed between my professional responsibilities and the consequences of less than desirable situations for my kids at school.

Yes, we should stop treating every teacher the same, focus on bringing in administrators who do a good job of recruiting, training, evaluating, and retaining good teachers, drop the expectation that all teachers should or will be the up to a minimum standard as well as every unnecessary meeting or piece of paperwork trying to get at some kind of impossible reassurance that they will be. Similarly, I think we should have a way to have the not good teachers move on. It’ll be better for everyone including students, colleagues, administrators, parents and even the not good teachers themselves, who are probably very unhappy. We left public for a private run this way. It’s not perfect, but generally lovely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

My son graduated from college two years ago. He already makes more than I do as a teacher in year 15.

You’re leaving out basically every relevant detail, including his school, degree, hours, and leave.

Duquesne, supply chain management, 40 hrs/week, leave is standard two weeks per year as far as I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

My son graduated from college two years ago. He already makes more than I do as a teacher in year 15.

You’re leaving out basically every relevant detail, including his school, degree, hours, and leave.

Duquesne, supply chain management, 40 hrs/week, leave is standard two weeks per year as far as I know.

And he works in the private sector?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont' think the problem is the hours or the days off. For me, the biggest issue is that we as teachers are constantly held responsible for things that are out of our control. COVID and the reaction of schools being the latest thing on that list. Before COVID it was poverty, children who don't speak English expected to perform at the same levels as children whose parents constantly seek outside tutoring.

We are held responsible for behaviors from children that are insane, curriculum issues etc etc. We are the ones held responsible for all these factors when we have no control over them.
It has to stop. We get little support for these things and are typically told we are to blame and to be more reflective in our teaching to get better results.
It is a trauma bond at a certain level and that is what is causing the burn out.

Our school’s reaction to Covid was directly controlled and held hostage by our teachers unions. I will always hold them responsible for a significant portion of our kids learning loss. Always. Many in our state only went back into the classroom because the governor mandated it and said virtual learning would not count as learning hours.

We are always responsible for learning loss. Always. Even when kids aren't in the classroom because everything shut down. Even when we are told by our district not to contact children or record us reading a book to them because it could be a copyright issue.

We are always responsible even when their parents are in the same house and we are on a screen. WE are ALWAYS responsible for learning loss.

Why do you think this is a new angle, you are just angry, we were always held responsible. Now it is just more obvious how we didn't cause covid, but we are still responsible. So I shrug. I took an academic leave of absence covid year because I thought teaching young children virtually was reprehensible. Guess what? You are still holding me responsible for your kids learning loss in your head, even though the only thing I could do was say no and not teach that way. I am STILL responsible. Do you see how ridiculous this reasoning is?

We get it. We understand so much that many of us are leaving because it has gotten abusive. If you have zero control, you can't have full responsibility without feeling despondent.

Great points. Thanks for your perspective. You are right - it isn't fair to hold teachers solely accountable for learning loss.

Interestingly, I recently read a study that teachers working remotely during the pandemic were more stressed and had worse mental health than healthcare workers working in person, who were at the highest risk of contracting COVID. Isolation and uncertainty played a part - the same concerns parents expressed for themselves and their kids.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2022/11/17/teachers-more-stressed-than-healthcare-workers-during-pandemic-study-says/?sh=2dc4bef559fc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

My son graduated from college two years ago. He already makes more than I do as a teacher in year 15.

You’re leaving out basically every relevant detail, including his school, degree, hours, and leave.

Duquesne, supply chain management, 40 hrs/week, leave is standard two weeks per year as far as I know.

I really really doubt it’s 40 hours a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

My son graduated from college two years ago. He already makes more than I do as a teacher in year 15.

You’re leaving out basically every relevant detail, including his school, degree, hours, and leave.

Duquesne, supply chain management, 40 hrs/week, leave is standard two weeks per year as far as I know.

And he works in the private sector?

And what is the relative COL in the two places you both live?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one has really talked about the impact of teachers getting a pension. I don’t know DC or MD but in VA teachers will get about 50 percent of their salary after retiring. If a teacher started mid 20s, they are looking at a lifetime benefit starting in 50s. This is something private sector doesn’t get anymore anywhere.

This point doesn’t really speak to the overworked part but does speak to the underpaid part. The total lifetime compensation package of being a public sector employee (you can usually also continue to get health insurance until Medicare kicks in) is significant.

I think there is no question teachers work hard and do amazing work under stressful conditions. They are also some of the most thanked and appreciated professionals I’ve ever seen. Which is deserved. But reality check, not many other professions are getting the constant stream of gifts, accolades, weeks and days in their honor. Maybe nurses?. I just don’t see it as a profession that lacks respect and appreciation. I’m sure teachers deal with some asshats. We all do at work.

Dcum posts aside, I don’t think that many people think teachers with seniority are underpaid. At least, not as a whole. But starting salaries are a problem, particularly given the situation we’re in with higher-education funding and student loans. And the workload is a problem.

MCPS teachers start at between ~$52K and $60K, depending on their education level. Their compensation package includes excellent healthcare coverage and other benefits.

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/salary_schedule_current.pdf

How is this different from average starting salaries for other recent college graduates?

It isn't. Also it is in line with (or perhaps higher than) Fed jobs with a BA and little experience.

My son graduated from college two years ago. He already makes more than I do as a teacher in year 15.

You’re leaving out basically every relevant detail, including his school, degree, hours, and leave.

Duquesne, supply chain management, 40 hrs/week, leave is standard two weeks per year as far as I know.

I really really doubt it’s 40 hours a week.

It could be 40 hours a week. But there are already many variables to could account for why her son makes more than her. Those include: 1) where each lives; 2) private v public sector, 3) different amounts of leave; 4) different benefits (retirement being a biggie); 5) relative demand for each position in the area in which each job is. I'm actually sure there are more. It's basically a bad comparison.