What does "we meet 100% of demonstrated need" really look like in numbers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are getting away with some very fuzzy wording, in may mind. Their idea of "demonstrated need" involves loans, definitely. Then they come away feeling good about themselves, but meanwhile they have saddled my child with loans she will have for year to come! I will say that the FAFSA calculator is pretty darn eye opening as to what they think we as parents are supposed to be able to contribute. I don't know how they think it's gonna happen, but for us with a combined income of just over 200K and another child in college, they expect us to contribute $30K per year for our rising college student. And they offered her $1K in work study and $5K in student loans. Total BS.

Right, but then won't your older kid's drop too? Sounds like your efc is 60k, now halved for each kid when #2 enters because #1 is still in school, right?

This is actually a great deal, but it may not last. The new college finance bill the passed congress a few years ago will go into effect next year, and Lamar Alexander added a clause that eliminates this siblings at the same time benefit. For many schools, you may see that 30k double.

My #2 will be applying next year, and I hope some css schools will keep that provision even if FAFSA calculations drop it.

But at 200k annual, 60k efc is not bad and 30k is excellent. You should have some money saved, right?

So Lamar is the one responsible for this horrendous change. PP, DYK why he did this? Who stands to benefit? Private loan companies?

I can't really imagine he was motivated by an equity argument. I think this is going to blow up and sadly can't see Congress being able to fix it.

We have kids one year apart and our EFC right now is about 60k. 120k would not be doable without draining retirement savings. Ironically, I think we'll push them towards CSS schools because the change is only for fafsa

An expectation that the applicant's family drains their retirement, mortgages their house, takes out loans, and spends tuition set aside for a siblings is not "meeting 100% of demonstrated need." These schools are too costly for those who are neither high income nor low income.

Then, if you choose not to save and want your kids at these schools, you either figure it out or send them to a school you can afford. If you choose a nicer lifestyle vs. saving for college, you don't need the aid, you want the aid so you can spend your money on other things. We've taken at best 3 vacations (not expensive ones) for a week or so at a time and that's it. We live in a crummy small house so we can save. We drive our cars till they die (and one is a 98). And, at best we can pay for a state college and graduate school. We are thankful we can do that without debt. So, zero empathy to someone in a million dollar house, taking vacations, etc. and not saving.

So you spend no money in order to send your kids to school debt free; do you expect your kids to do the same for your grand kids? Does the cycle just continue indefinitely?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are getting away with some very fuzzy wording, in may mind. Their idea of "demonstrated need" involves loans, definitely. Then they come away feeling good about themselves, but meanwhile they have saddled my child with loans she will have for year to come! I will say that the FAFSA calculator is pretty darn eye opening as to what they think we as parents are supposed to be able to contribute. I don't know how they think it's gonna happen, but for us with a combined income of just over 200K and another child in college, they expect us to contribute $30K per year for our rising college student. And they offered her $1K in work study and $5K in student loans. Total BS.

You actually sound awful. Why didn’t you save more for college? 30k a year on a 200k HHI seems like a bargain. I don’t care if you have 3 kids in college. You decided to have the number of kids you did and how to space them out. Now you are complaining that you have to pay for college?

Ever heard of having unplanned multiples?

No kids are unplanned. If you had sex, you know the risk of having a child. If you are trying to have kids, you know multiples are a possibility. And, all the more reason to save. You have to be realistic and send them to a state school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are getting away with some very fuzzy wording, in may mind. Their idea of "demonstrated need" involves loans, definitely. Then they come away feeling good about themselves, but meanwhile they have saddled my child with loans she will have for year to come! I will say that the FAFSA calculator is pretty darn eye opening as to what they think we as parents are supposed to be able to contribute. I don't know how they think it's gonna happen, but for us with a combined income of just over 200K and another child in college, they expect us to contribute $30K per year for our rising college student. And they offered her $1K in work study and $5K in student loans. Total BS.

Right, but then won't your older kid's drop too? Sounds like your efc is 60k, now halved for each kid when #2 enters because #1 is still in school, right?

This is actually a great deal, but it may not last. The new college finance bill the passed congress a few years ago will go into effect next year, and Lamar Alexander added a clause that eliminates this siblings at the same time benefit. For many schools, you may see that 30k double.

My #2 will be applying next year, and I hope some css schools will keep that provision even if FAFSA calculations drop it.

But at 200k annual, 60k efc is not bad and 30k is excellent. You should have some money saved, right?

So Lamar is the one responsible for this horrendous change. PP, DYK why he did this? Who stands to benefit? Private loan companies?

I can't really imagine he was motivated by an equity argument. I think this is going to blow up and sadly can't see Congress being able to fix it.

Because he's a libertarian ass. He was like "they chose to have kids and should have planned." (Paraphrased quote).

Jerk move.

Strange. I worked for him at the Department of Education. He certainly isn't a Libertarian. . Also, he can't push through a change in law like this without the vote of his entire committee.

Here is the NYT article on it from a while ago.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/29/your-money/fafsa-changes-college-aid.html

Ok, I was wrong about libertarian. But, he's a total gamer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are getting away with some very fuzzy wording, in may mind. Their idea of "demonstrated need" involves loans, definitely. Then they come away feeling good about themselves, but meanwhile they have saddled my child with loans she will have for year to come! I will say that the FAFSA calculator is pretty darn eye opening as to what they think we as parents are supposed to be able to contribute. I don't know how they think it's gonna happen, but for us with a combined income of just over 200K and another child in college, they expect us to contribute $30K per year for our rising college student. And they offered her $1K in work study and $5K in student loans. Total BS.

You actually sound awful. Why didn’t you save more for college? 30k a year on a 200k HHI seems like a bargain. I don’t care if you have 3 kids in college. You decided to have the number of kids you did and how to space them out. Now you are complaining that you have to pay for college?

Ever heard of having unplanned multiples?

LOL I was thinking the same thing. No, I didn't exactly get the opportunity to plan them out.

Selective reduction and abortion are options. You may not have planned it, but you made the CHOICE to continue with your pregnancy.

Totally. Should have killed one off to afford that $80K college tuition. Without that, you sealed their fate of becoming a failure, anyway, so might as well not even have been born. Life without T-10 is not a life worth living.

PP you quoted here.

Well I don't believe that at all. I'm actually pro-life. But the majority wants CHOICE, and with the option of CHOICE, you need to bear the consequences of that choice.

The majority wants choice AND wants our taxes to support meaningful things that help our lives like higher education so that it's actually affordable rather than an ever-expanding military and low corporate tax rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are getting away with some very fuzzy wording, in may mind. Their idea of "demonstrated need" involves loans, definitely. Then they come away feeling good about themselves, but meanwhile they have saddled my child with loans she will have for year to come! I will say that the FAFSA calculator is pretty darn eye opening as to what they think we as parents are supposed to be able to contribute. I don't know how they think it's gonna happen, but for us with a combined income of just over 200K and another child in college, they expect us to contribute $30K per year for our rising college student. And they offered her $1K in work study and $5K in student loans. Total BS.

You actually sound awful. Why didn’t you save more for college? 30k a year on a 200k HHI seems like a bargain. I don’t care if you have 3 kids in college. You decided to have the number of kids you did and how to space them out. Now you are complaining that you have to pay for college?

Ever heard of having unplanned multiples?

LOL I was thinking the same thing. No, I didn't exactly get the opportunity to plan them out.

Selective reduction and abortion are options. You may not have planned it, but you made the CHOICE to continue with your pregnancy.

Totally. Should have killed one off to afford that $80K college tuition. Without that, you sealed their fate of becoming a failure, anyway, so might as well not even have been born. Life without T-10 is not a life worth living.

PP you quoted here.

Well I don't believe that at all. I'm actually pro-life. But the majority wants CHOICE, and with the option of CHOICE, you need to bear the consequences of that choice.

The majority wants choice AND wants our taxes to support meaningful things that help our lives like higher education so that it's actually affordable rather than an ever-expanding military and low corporate tax rates.

Military has seen huge reductions, not increases and enlisted are paid very poorly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are getting away with some very fuzzy wording, in may mind. Their idea of "demonstrated need" involves loans, definitely. Then they come away feeling good about themselves, but meanwhile they have saddled my child with loans she will have for year to come! I will say that the FAFSA calculator is pretty darn eye opening as to what they think we as parents are supposed to be able to contribute. I don't know how they think it's gonna happen, but for us with a combined income of just over 200K and another child in college, they expect us to contribute $30K per year for our rising college student. And they offered her $1K in work study and $5K in student loans. Total BS.

Right, but then won't your older kid's drop too? Sounds like your efc is 60k, now halved for each kid when #2 enters because #1 is still in school, right?

This is actually a great deal, but it may not last. The new college finance bill the passed congress a few years ago will go into effect next year, and Lamar Alexander added a clause that eliminates this siblings at the same time benefit. For many schools, you may see that 30k double.

My #2 will be applying next year, and I hope some css schools will keep that provision even if FAFSA calculations drop it.

But at 200k annual, 60k efc is not bad and 30k is excellent. You should have some money saved, right?

So Lamar is the one responsible for this horrendous change. PP, DYK why he did this? Who stands to benefit? Private loan companies?

I can't really imagine he was motivated by an equity argument. I think this is going to blow up and sadly can't see Congress being able to fix it.

We have kids one year apart and our EFC right now is about 60k. 120k would not be doable without draining retirement savings. Ironically, I think we'll push them towards CSS schools because the change is only for fafsa

An expectation that the applicant's family drains their retirement, mortgages their house, takes out loans, and spends tuition set aside for a siblings is not "meeting 100% of demonstrated need." These schools are too costly for those who are neither high income nor low income.

Then, if you choose not to save and want your kids at these schools, you either figure it out or send them to a school you can afford. If you choose a nicer lifestyle vs. saving for college, you don't need the aid, you want the aid so you can spend your money on other things. We've taken at best 3 vacations (not expensive ones) for a week or so at a time and that's it. We live in a crummy small house so we can save. We drive our cars till they die (and one is a 98). And, at best we can pay for a state college and graduate school. We are thankful we can do that without debt. So, zero empathy to someone in a million dollar house, taking vacations, etc. and not saving.

So you spend no money in order to send your kids to school debt free; do you expect your kids to do the same for your grand kids? Does the cycle just continue indefinitely?

We spend money on things important like activities for the kids. Yes, I will do what ever it takes to make sure my kids are debt free. A debt free education is the best gift you can give your kids. I hope they will do the same for their kids but I also hope we are in a position to help. My grandparents paid for a good chunk of my college and graduate school. My parents are too stingy to help despite plenty of money. I got my education debt free, my husband didn't get his till his 30's because he didn't have the money to go. We don't want our kids to struggle like he did when we can make "sacrifices" and pay for it. Our kids know we have the money to live nicer but also know we want to pay for their college and graduate school and know they will go to a state school in less we can find more money (we could pull from retirement if there is a good reason) or aid, which we aren't counting on at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It means you should have saved more if you are expecting $50K in financial aid.

I don't get responses like this. Saving for college is a burden, even at that range. I don't get why this country accepts that colleges should cost that much money for anyone. I work hard for my money and was "first gen" and worked my way out of poverty. Yeah, I make a fair amount but I was a late starter to saving for retirement, buying a home, etc. Saving earlier wasn't exactly possible.

And don't say "go somewhere else." This is theoretical for us at this point, but why should DC have to do that after working his/her tail off for 4 years just because other people will get aid and they won't? It's bull---t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are getting away with some very fuzzy wording, in may mind. Their idea of "demonstrated need" involves loans, definitely. Then they come away feeling good about themselves, but meanwhile they have saddled my child with loans she will have for year to come! I will say that the FAFSA calculator is pretty darn eye opening as to what they think we as parents are supposed to be able to contribute. I don't know how they think it's gonna happen, but for us with a combined income of just over 200K and another child in college, they expect us to contribute $30K per year for our rising college student. And they offered her $1K in work study and $5K in student loans. Total BS.

Right, but then won't your older kid's drop too? Sounds like your efc is 60k, now halved for each kid when #2 enters because #1 is still in school, right?

This is actually a great deal, but it may not last. The new college finance bill the passed congress a few years ago will go into effect next year, and Lamar Alexander added a clause that eliminates this siblings at the same time benefit. For many schools, you may see that 30k double.

My #2 will be applying next year, and I hope some css schools will keep that provision even if FAFSA calculations drop it.

But at 200k annual, 60k efc is not bad and 30k is excellent. You should have some money saved, right?

So Lamar is the one responsible for this horrendous change. PP, DYK why he did this? Who stands to benefit? Private loan companies?

I can't really imagine he was motivated by an equity argument. I think this is going to blow up and sadly can't see Congress being able to fix it.

We have kids one year apart and our EFC right now is about 60k. 120k would not be doable without draining retirement savings. Ironically, I think we'll push them towards CSS schools because the change is only for fafsa

An expectation that the applicant's family drains their retirement, mortgages their house, takes out loans, and spends tuition set aside for a siblings is not "meeting 100% of demonstrated need." These schools are too costly for those who are neither high income nor low income.

Then, if you choose not to save and want your kids at these schools, you either figure it out or send them to a school you can afford. If you choose a nicer lifestyle vs. saving for college, you don't need the aid, you want the aid so you can spend your money on other things. We've taken at best 3 vacations (not expensive ones) for a week or so at a time and that's it. We live in a crummy small house so we can save. We drive our cars till they die (and one is a 98). And, at best we can pay for a state college and graduate school. We are thankful we can do that without debt. So, zero empathy to someone in a million dollar house, taking vacations, etc. and not saving.

So you spend no money in order to send your kids to school debt free; do you expect your kids to do the same for your grand kids? Does the cycle just continue indefinitely?

We spend money on things important like activities for the kids. Yes, I will do what ever it takes to make sure my kids are debt free. A debt free education is the best gift you can give your kids. I hope they will do the same for their kids but I also hope we are in a position to help. My grandparents paid for a good chunk of my college and graduate school. My parents are too stingy to help despite plenty of money. I got my education debt free, my husband didn't get his till his 30's because he didn't have the money to go. We don't want our kids to struggle like he did when we can make "sacrifices" and pay for it. Our kids know we have the money to live nicer but also know we want to pay for their college and graduate school and know they will go to a state school in less we can find more money (we could pull from retirement if there is a good reason) or aid, which we aren't counting on at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means you should have saved more if you are expecting $50K in financial aid.

I don't get responses like this. Saving for college is a burden, even at that range. I don't get why this country accepts that colleges should cost that much money for anyone. I work hard for my money and was "first gen" and worked my way out of poverty. Yeah, I make a fair amount but I was a late starter to saving for retirement, buying a home, etc. Saving earlier wasn't exactly possible.

And don't say "go somewhere else." This is theoretical for us at this point, but why should DC have to do that after working his/her tail off for 4 years just because other people will get aid and they won't? It's bull---t.

I am with you. I don't accept it, but I also don't know what I personally can do about it, besides steer kids to in-state schools that are still probably more costly than they should be. By paying or borrowing the money for these "elite" schools, arent' you feeding into it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did it ever occur to the "WHY DIDN'T YOU SAAVVVEE??!!!" harpies that some people have modest houses that are paid off b/c they were purchased within a budget? And drive old cars without car payments? That not everyone chooses an extravagant home and then expects aid?

Also, just because they make $200-300K now doesn't mean they always have. We didn't. We were very late to saving for retirement, having reliable cars that were not used and 100 years old and breaking down, having reliable healthcare, a home, etc. That EFC doesn't tell the whole story, rather, only a snapshot in time. We saved aggressively for college in the time that we could and it is increasingly apparent that it will not be enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They’ll give 100% of what the form says you need.

Most schools don’t, so you get your aid package and then have to find some more money on your own to fill the gap.

Of course there are people who think their need is more than the forms say.

Importantly, "they'll give you 100%..." could mean different things at different universities.

I worked for a couple of years at a private college.

Unmet need, per the FAFSA (or other calc. used by the school) of $4000 could be MET with a $2000 campus work study job and a $2000 subsidized loan. OR it could be met with a $4000 grant. Or some mix of all and other sources. If your student is awarded scholarships outside of the college (e.g., a local garden club award), that too could factor into lessening the unmet need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did it ever occur to the "WHY DIDN'T YOU SAAVVVEE??!!!" harpies that some people have modest houses that are paid off b/c they were purchased within a budget? And drive old cars without car payments? That not everyone chooses an extravagant home and then expects aid?

You can have a modest million dollar home or a modest $300-400K home. Or, you can consider your $2 million dollar home modest. And, your budget probably looks very different than ours.

Please show me all of these 300k homes in decent school districts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’ll give 100% of what the form says you need.

Most schools don’t, so you get your aid package and then have to find some more money on your own to fill the gap.

Of course there are people who think their need is more than the forms say.

Importantly, "they'll give you 100%..." could mean different things at different universities.

I worked for a couple of years at a private college.

Unmet need, per the FAFSA (or other calc. used by the school) of $4000 could be MET with a $2000 campus work study job and a $2000 subsidized loan. OR it could be met with a $4000 grant. Or some mix of all and other sources. If your student is awarded scholarships outside of the college (e.g., a local garden club award), that too could factor into lessening the unmet need.

And this is how the best colleges like Amherst are pulling away. 100% of need met through grants without the requirement for work study is starting be the standard for elite schools. Just like 100% of need met, this standard will spread to the schools that have the endowments to support it. Those that don't will slip a little bit more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are getting away with some very fuzzy wording, in may mind. Their idea of "demonstrated need" involves loans, definitely. Then they come away feeling good about themselves, but meanwhile they have saddled my child with loans she will have for year to come! I will say that the FAFSA calculator is pretty darn eye opening as to what they think we as parents are supposed to be able to contribute. I don't know how they think it's gonna happen, but for us with a combined income of just over 200K and another child in college, they expect us to contribute $30K per year for our rising college student. And they offered her $1K in work study and $5K in student loans. Total BS.

You actually sound awful. Why didn’t you save more for college? 30k a year on a 200k HHI seems like a bargain. I don’t care if you have 3 kids in college. You decided to have the number of kids you did and how to space them out. Now you are complaining that you have to pay for college?

Ever heard of having unplanned multiples?

LOL I was thinking the same thing. No, I didn't exactly get the opportunity to plan them out.

Selective reduction and abortion are options. You may not have planned it, but you made the CHOICE to continue with your pregnancy.

Totally. Should have killed one off to afford that $80K college tuition. Without that, you sealed their fate of becoming a failure, anyway, so might as well not even have been born. Life without T-10 is not a life worth living.

PP you quoted here.

Well I don't believe that at all. I'm actually pro-life. But the majority wants CHOICE, and with the option of CHOICE, you need to bear the consequences of that choice.

The majority wants choice AND wants our taxes to support meaningful things that help our lives like higher education so that it's actually affordable rather than an ever-expanding military and low corporate tax rates.

Military has seen huge reductions, not increases and enlisted are paid very poorly.

Not to pull the thread off-track, but nope:
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/military-spending-defense-budget
And it's still far higher than many other large countries combined:
https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison

[Anonymous]

Getting back to the OP's question -- OP, if you are talking about "elite" schools that don't give merit aid, plug your numbers into the net price calculator on the school's website, which will give you an estimate of what you will be expected to pay. This will give you a general idea.

You mentioned merit aid in your post. Lots of schools do give merit aid. Check online to see what most get. Some state universities will have a chart that breaks it down by ACT/SAT score and GPA. This can be "automatic" merit aid -- If your GPA is X and your ACT is X, you will get X dollars.