Why we're still fascinated by college rankings

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

True prestige matters for majors like business but especially if you are going to major in some mediocre stuff, make sure to do it at prestigious schools.

I would say in general HYPS STEM > T50ish STEM > HYPS mediocre majors >>>>>> mediocre majors at mediocre schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

My DS who is a senior at a T20 studying Applied Math and Data Science already has a job lined up in a large consulting firm to start in Sept. 2023.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

My DS who is a senior at a T20 studying Applied Math and Data Science already has a job lined up in a large consulting firm to start in Sept. 2023.

And there are undoubtedly plenty of Ohio State seniors in the same boat. Anecdotal evidence doesn't carry much weight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

My DS who is a senior at a T20 studying Applied Math and Data Science already has a job lined up in a large consulting firm to start in Sept. 2023.

Essentially one of the the best combinations.
T20 + Applied Math & DS

$150K starting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

The differentiation of just having a college degree has diminished because so many more are college educated. And of course the top colleges are more selective. But among those who are college educated, I think top students are less concentrated at a small number of schools than 50 years ago. And 50 years ago they were less concentrated than 50 years before that. It’s because of a number of factors, but the net result is that people are less inclined to assume a particular school brand on the diploma is either a necessary or sufficient condition for a capable and well prepared individual among the educated, imo.

I went to a very selective private high school. Over half that class went to top 10 universities. Decades later, my child went to the same high school. Their class’s test scores are higher and their ECs better. The school itself more selective. Maybe 10% go to those same colleges now. I think today’s students are more likely than those from my era to conclude “there are many great students at many colleges, a lot of the process has to do with things beyond a student’s performance” than the students from my time.

+1 Thank you for saving my fingers a few keystrokes! Here's some hard data regarding where people in desirable jobs did their studies to support what you say.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/12/

Sorry PP, but the way you've been spamming this board with a link to a website that is literally titled "Less HS Stress" is annoying as hell.

It matters where you go to undergrad. Full stop. No argument there (unless you're pre-med or pre-law).

So we should believe your random-poster-who-provides-no-evidence-on-an-anonymous-forum opinion vs. the opinions of others who provide links to data that supports their argument? No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

True prestige matters for majors like business but especially if you are going to major in some mediocre stuff, make sure to do it at prestigious schools.

I would say in general HYPS STEM > T50ish STEM > HYPS mediocre majors >>>>>> mediocre majors at mediocre schools

There are definitely other undergrad schools I would recommend to my kid for certain STEM degrees before Yale and Harvard.

Obviously both are incredible schools my kid would be fortunate to attend. But there are way more than four schools that might be the best choice for a randomly chosen but qualified student, even if they somehow had a golden ticket to go anywhere. The circumstances that let a student achieve the most they are capable of will vary.

I can see a person having incentive to argue the opposite to boost the brand value of their or their kid’s diploma. But that shouldn’t be necessary, it’s not true, and it clearly contributes to an unhealthy obsession that leads to eventual disappointment, not only among those rejected, but even among many fortunate enough to be admitted.

One of best indicators of long term satisfaction with a school is alumni giving. It’s interesting only one of those four are in the top 30 of combined colleges for giving rate. Perhaps not fair to hold public colleges to that same metric, but for private schools it’s a pretty level field. Hard to be as impressed by wealthy alumni when despite that greater affluence they find reason not to give to their college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

The differentiation of just having a college degree has diminished because so many more are college educated. And of course the top colleges are more selective. But among those who are college educated, I think top students are less concentrated at a small number of schools than 50 years ago. And 50 years ago they were less concentrated than 50 years before that. It’s because of a number of factors, but the net result is that people are less inclined to assume a particular school brand on the diploma is either a necessary or sufficient condition for a capable and well prepared individual among the educated, imo.

I went to a very selective private high school. Over half that class went to top 10 universities. Decades later, my child went to the same high school. Their class’s test scores are higher and their ECs better. The school itself more selective. Maybe 10% go to those same colleges now. I think today’s students are more likely than those from my era to conclude “there are many great students at many colleges, a lot of the process has to do with things beyond a student’s performance” than the students from my time.

+1 Thank you for saving my fingers a few keystrokes! Here's some hard data regarding where people in desirable jobs did their studies to support what you say.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/12/

Was thinking similar thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

The differentiation of just having a college degree has diminished because so many more are college educated. And of course the top colleges are more selective. But among those who are college educated, I think top students are less concentrated at a small number of schools than 50 years ago. And 50 years ago they were less concentrated than 50 years before that. It’s because of a number of factors, but the net result is that people are less inclined to assume a particular school brand on the diploma is either a necessary or sufficient condition for a capable and well prepared individual among the educated, imo.

I went to a very selective private high school. Over half that class went to top 10 universities. Decades later, my child went to the same high school. Their class’s test scores are higher and their ECs better. The school itself more selective. Maybe 10% go to those same colleges now. I think today’s students are more likely than those from my era to conclude “there are many great students at many colleges, a lot of the process has to do with things beyond a student’s performance” than the students from my time.

+1 Thank you for saving my fingers a few keystrokes! Here's some hard data regarding where people in desirable jobs did their studies to support what you say.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/12/

Sorry PP, but the way you've been spamming this board with a link to a website that is literally titled "Less HS Stress" is annoying as hell.

It matters where you go to undergrad. Full stop. No argument there (unless you're pre-med or pre-law).

So we should believe your random-poster-who-provides-no-evidence-on-an-anonymous-forum opinion vs. the opinions of others who provide links to data that supports their argument? No thanks.

+1002

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

My DS who is a senior at a T20 studying Applied Math and Data Science already has a job lined up in a large consulting firm to start in Sept. 2023.

And there are undoubtedly plenty of Ohio State seniors in the same boat. Anecdotal evidence doesn't carry much weight.

Hahaha. You clearly never went through consulting recruiting. Infinitely easier from a T20 than from Ohio State. Sorry, but MBB isn't recruiting at Ohio State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

My DS who is a senior at a T20 studying Applied Math and Data Science already has a job lined up in a large consulting firm to start in Sept. 2023.

And there are undoubtedly plenty of Ohio State seniors in the same boat. Anecdotal evidence doesn't carry much weight.

Hahaha. You clearly never went through consulting recruiting. Infinitely easier from a T20 than from Ohio State. Sorry, but MBB isn't recruiting at Ohio State.

But there are Ohio State students (and from any other flagship university) who are smart enough to apply despite the lack of recruiters on campus, and who have achieved highly enough that they can't be ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

really? top 50-100 will offer same opportunity as top 10? you believe that?

There was an academic study that showed that people who had the same qualifications as top ranked college students when entering college (i.e. they were accepted to a top school but chose to go elsewhere) had the same average outcomes post college as the kids graduating from the top ranked colleges.

+1 It's an important study to be familiar with if you're going to enter a discussion about college ROI. It's a longitudinal study done by Krueger and Dale done over several decades now, and no one has come close to refuting the findings. Here's a link to the abstract.....

https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159

“ We also estimate the return to college selectivity for the 1976 cohort of students, but over a longer time horizon (from 1983 through 2007) using administrative data..”


In 1976, when the Krueger and Dale cohort entered the job market, having any kind of a college degree was a big deal. The value of a college degree has been diluted a great deal since then, making the name brand of the school more important in recruiting.

+1000

Going to an HYPS for undergrad matters immensely if you want to work right out of undergrad and not go to med/law school.

I think major in CS or cerntain engineering at like #20-#60 something matter more than HYPS or T20 humanites or alike if you want to work right out of undergrad

+ 1001

No doubt about it, but an HYPS STEM major will have job opportunities available that, say, an Ohio State grad will not.

Also, if I were a humanities or social science major, I would much rather be at an Ivy than at a state flagship ranked #50.

True prestige matters for majors like business but especially if you are going to major in some mediocre stuff, make sure to do it at prestigious schools.

I would say in general HYPS STEM > T50ish STEM > HYPS mediocre majors >>>>>> mediocre majors at mediocre schools

There are definitely other undergrad schools I would recommend to my kid for certain STEM degrees before Yale and Harvard.

Obviously both are incredible schools my kid would be fortunate to attend. But there are way more than four schools that might be the best choice for a randomly chosen but qualified student, even if they somehow had a golden ticket to go anywhere. The circumstances that let a student achieve the most they are capable of will vary.

I can see a person having incentive to argue the opposite to boost the brand value of their or their kid’s diploma. But that shouldn’t be necessary, it’s not true, and it clearly contributes to an unhealthy obsession that leads to eventual disappointment, not only among those rejected, but even among many fortunate enough to be admitted.

One of best indicators of long term satisfaction with a school is alumni giving. It’s interesting only one of those four are in the top 30 of combined colleges for giving rate. Perhaps not fair to hold public colleges to that same metric, but for private schools it’s a pretty level field. Hard to be as impressed by wealthy alumni when despite that greater affluence they find reason not to give to their college.

They rank high for national universities.