Why we're still fascinated by college rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious Question: How do you define "fit" in the college selection process ?

After all, applicants' greatest control is in deciding to which schools to apply. Many applicants are admitted to selective schools because hat applicant is NOT a fit and, therefore, should add diversity to the college community.

The reality is that affordability is more important than any notion of fit--simply because "fit" is unaffordable.

“Fit” is how well a college matches your individual interests and needs.

Affordability is absolutely part of fit.

Picking a school somehow different from what you are used to can also be part of fit if those differences are something you value greater exposure to (and the reverse is true too when colleges are selecting applicants.)

What’s not fit? Prioritizing what’s supposedly best for the mythological “typical” applicant (prestige) or, worse, exclusivity above all other considerations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious Question: How do you define "fit" in the college selection process ?

After all, applicants' greatest control is in deciding to which schools to apply. Many applicants are admitted to selective schools because hat applicant is NOT a fit and, therefore, should add diversity to the college community.

The reality is that affordability is more important than any notion of fit--simply because "fit" is unaffordable.

“Fit” is how well a college matches your individual interests and needs.

Affordability is absolutely part of fit.

Picking a school somehow different from what you are used to can also be part of fit if those differences are something you value greater exposure to (and the reverse is true too when colleges are selecting applicants.)

What’s not fit? Prioritizing what’s supposedly best for the mythological “typical” applicant (prestige) or, worse, exclusivity above all other considerations.

Agree in general. My kids wanted to get out of suburban VA and prefered urban setting environments.

Howver fit is also finding the right level of school where it has equally or slightly more intelligent student body.
You learn a lot from the environment.
I woudn't send my 1540 SAT kid to a 1250 SAT school. Not the right fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious Question: How do you define "fit" in the college selection process ?

After all, applicants' greatest control is in deciding to which schools to apply. Many applicants are admitted to selective schools because hat applicant is NOT a fit and, therefore, should add diversity to the college community.

The reality is that affordability is more important than any notion of fit--simply because "fit" is unaffordable.

“Fit” is how well a college matches your individual interests and needs.

Affordability is absolutely part of fit.

Picking a school somehow different from what you are used to can also be part of fit if those differences are something you value greater exposure to (and the reverse is true too when colleges are selecting applicants.)

What’s not fit? Prioritizing what’s supposedly best for the mythological “typical” applicant (prestige) or, worse, exclusivity above all other considerations.

Agree in general. My kids wanted to get out of suburban VA and prefered urban setting environments.

Howver fit is also finding the right level of school where it has equally or slightly more intelligent student body.
You learn a lot from the environment.
I woudn't send my 1540 SAT kid to a 1250 SAT school. Not the right fit.

NP--And I agree in general with what you say.

But you might find that 1250 school to be a fine fit if finances mattered to you, or if keeping your kid close to home is important b/c they have medical issues that you want attended to by their current doctors, or if there were a limited number of schools that offered their preferred major, or if they had an anxiety disorder that made a competitive environment a really bad idea, etc. U Arizona, Delaware, Florida State, etc. are all capable of educating a 1540 kid very well. Maybe not the best fit for most, but it would work if you needed it to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

That's a load of BS. Where you go does not matter much, it's what you do with it/onceyou are there. Unless you are high power finance or law, just look around at your colleagues and at least 75%+ (likely much higher) did not attend an elite school. An engineering or CS degree from anywhere gives you just as many opportunities. FAANG hires outside of the T20 schools. Majority of those I've worked with in last 30+ years did not attend elite universities. Then again, once you get your first jobs, nobody cares/talks about it. It's how you do your actual job that matters---and the connections you build on the job. I went to a T10 university, yet never needed to use any university connections to get a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

This may be true for certain STEM majors, but it definitely is not true for business (except data science & accounting) or humanities majors. Of course, there are exceptions and there are special super honors programs that may yield similar opportunities.

Not true for business undergrad really and for humanities majors. Kids at schools ranked 100+ still get great jobs with a business degree, and go onto get MBAs at top notch universities (and for MBA where you get it does matter much more)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious Question: How do you define "fit" in the college selection process ?

After all, applicants' greatest control is in deciding to which schools to apply. Many applicants are admitted to selective schools because hat applicant is NOT a fit and, therefore, should add diversity to the college community.

The reality is that affordability is more important than any notion of fit--simply because "fit" is unaffordable.

“Fit” is how well a college matches your individual interests and needs.

Affordability is absolutely part of fit.

Picking a school somehow different from what you are used to can also be part of fit if those differences are something you value greater exposure to (and the reverse is true too when colleges are selecting applicants.)

What’s not fit? Prioritizing what’s supposedly best for the mythological “typical” applicant (prestige) or, worse, exclusivity above all other considerations.

Agree in general. My kids wanted to get out of suburban VA and prefered urban setting environments.

Howver fit is also finding the right level of school where it has equally or slightly more intelligent student body.
You learn a lot from the environment.
I woudn't send my 1540 SAT kid to a 1250 SAT school. Not the right fit.

But the honors program at a 1250 SAT school could be a "right fit" for your 1540 kid. There are plenty of places for smart kids to fit in. But if your 1540 sat kid can only get afford a 1250 School, they will be just fine. There will be plenty of opportunities to work with other smart, motivated kids. I'd argue it might be a better fit for many than a "1550 sat school"

1540 is 98%
1350 is 90%
1250 is 84%

So there will be plenty of kids at the 85%+ at a 1250 school. Plenty of dedicated, smart people will still be at a school like that. In some ways, it can give your kid more opportunities---research, jobs, advancement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious Question: How do you define "fit" in the college selection process ?

After all, applicants' greatest control is in deciding to which schools to apply. Many applicants are admitted to selective schools because hat applicant is NOT a fit and, therefore, should add diversity to the college community.

The reality is that affordability is more important than any notion of fit--simply because "fit" is unaffordable.

“Fit” is how well a college matches your individual interests and needs.

Affordability is absolutely part of fit.

Picking a school somehow different from what you are used to can also be part of fit if those differences are something you value greater exposure to (and the reverse is true too when colleges are selecting applicants.)

What’s not fit? Prioritizing what’s supposedly best for the mythological “typical” applicant (prestige) or, worse, exclusivity above all other considerations.

Agree in general. My kids wanted to get out of suburban VA and prefered urban setting environments.

Howver fit is also finding the right level of school where it has equally or slightly more intelligent student body.
You learn a lot from the environment.
I woudn't send my 1540 SAT kid to a 1250 SAT school. Not the right fit.

But the honors program at a 1250 SAT school could be a "right fit" for your 1540 kid. There are plenty of places for smart kids to fit in. But if your 1540 sat kid can only get afford a 1250 School, they will be just fine. There will be plenty of opportunities to work with other smart, motivated kids. I'd argue it might be a better fit for many than a "1550 sat school"

1540 is 98%
1350 is 90%
1250 is 84%

So there will be plenty of kids at the 85%+ at a 1250 school. Plenty of dedicated, smart people will still be at a school like that. In some ways, it can give your kid more opportunities---research, jobs, advancement.

Or even just within certain majors at those lower mean stat universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious Question: How do you define "fit" in the college selection process ?

After all, applicants' greatest control is in deciding to which schools to apply. Many applicants are admitted to selective schools because hat applicant is NOT a fit and, therefore, should add diversity to the college community.

The reality is that affordability is more important than any notion of fit--simply because "fit" is unaffordable.

“Fit” is how well a college matches your individual interests and needs.

Affordability is absolutely part of fit.

Picking a school somehow different from what you are used to can also be part of fit if those differences are something you value greater exposure to (and the reverse is true too when colleges are selecting applicants.)

What’s not fit? Prioritizing what’s supposedly best for the mythological “typical” applicant (prestige) or, worse, exclusivity above all other considerations.

Agree in general. My kids wanted to get out of suburban VA and prefered urban setting environments.

Howver fit is also finding the right level of school where it has equally or slightly more intelligent student body.
You learn a lot from the environment.
I woudn't send my 1540 SAT kid to a 1250 SAT school. Not the right fit.

But the honors program at a 1250 SAT school could be a "right fit" for your 1540 kid. There are plenty of places for smart kids to fit in. But if your 1540 sat kid can only get afford a 1250 School, they will be just fine. There will be plenty of opportunities to work with other smart, motivated kids. I'd argue it might be a better fit for many than a "1550 sat school"

1540 is 98%
1350 is 90%
1250 is 84%

So there will be plenty of kids at the 85%+ at a 1250 school. Plenty of dedicated, smart people will still be at a school like that. In some ways, it can give your kid more opportunities---research, jobs, advancement.

This. Most student will be better off being in the top tier of the student body than in the middle or bottom of a higher ranked school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

This may be true for certain STEM majors, but it definitely is not true for business (except data science & accounting) or humanities majors. Of course, there are exceptions and there are special super honors programs that may yield similar opportunities.

Not true for business undergrad really and for humanities majors. Kids at schools ranked 100+ still get great jobs with a business degree, and go onto get MBAs at top notch universities (and for MBA where you get it does matter much more)

Well, we disagree. For example, many high profile, prestigious companies interview at only the top ranked schools for rotational management positions. Of course, there are exceptions based on location as corporate HQ want to maintain good relations with the local community.

For humanities majors, I have difficulty accepting your statement. Could you please provide an example or two ? (I am not trying to be argumentative; I am genuinely curious about this.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

If you take full advantage of what's offered, career opportunities are the same regardless of whether you attend a school ranked in the top 10 or one ranked 50-100.

This may be true for certain STEM majors, but it definitely is not true for business (except data science & accounting) or humanities majors. Of course, there are exceptions and there are special super honors programs that may yield similar opportunities.

Not true for business undergrad really and for humanities majors. Kids at schools ranked 100+ still get great jobs with a business degree, and go onto get MBAs at top notch universities (and for MBA where you get it does matter much more)

Well, we disagree. For example, many high profile, prestigious companies interview at only the top ranked schools for rotational management positions. Of course, there are exceptions based on location as corporate HQ want to maintain good relations with the local community.

For humanities majors, I have difficulty accepting your statement. Could you please provide an example or two ? (I am not trying to be argumentative; I am genuinely curious about this.)

Companies that interview only at elite universities do so because it's more efficient, not because they aren't interested in hiring excellent applicants from other schools. They'd be foolish to ignore superstars just because of where they studied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM loafers above are already showing their better than thou attitudes.

No, fit is not overrated - just wait till one of your kids is miserable and depressed at the wrong school.

Yes, super smart kids often attend the most party heavy schools.

People focus on fit when their kid can't get into a top 20 school. Sorry. Poor people say money can't buy you happiness. Of course it does. Vacations, nice restaurants, etc. It buys experiences which has been shown to be linked to happiness. I don't have enough money so I am not happy as I could be. I have some but not enough.

People focus on rankings more than fit when the care about their own egos more than their kids' well-being.

Or maybe when they care about career opportunities ?

That's a load of BS. Where you go does not matter much, it's what you do with it/onceyou are there. Unless you are high power finance or law, just look around at your colleagues and at least 75%+ (likely much higher) did not attend an elite school. An engineering or CS degree from anywhere gives you just as many opportunities. FAANG hires outside of the T20 schools. Majority of those I've worked with in last 30+ years did not attend elite universities. Then again, once you get your first jobs, nobody cares/talks about it. It's how you do your actual job that matters---and the connections you build on the job. I went to a T10 university, yet never needed to use any university connections to get a job.

Exactly. Your success is because of who you are, not because of where you went to college. Based on the lists below, though, I'd argue that UNDERGRAD school (haven't seen anything about MBA/law school) doesn't matter for power finance or law, either.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/law/

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/wall-street/

[Anonymous]

People are motivated not to believe that where go to college doesn’t matter all that much, at least within the top 150-200 or so. Parents who have been carefully curating their kids lives with “the right” schools, suburban/country club sports, like fencing, swim, tennis, golf, squash, LAX, etc. and math enrichment since 4th grade, all geared to getting into that coveted T20, do not want to hear it won’t make that much difference in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are motivated not to believe that where go to college doesn’t matter all that much, at least within the top 150-200 or so. Parents who have been carefully curating their kids lives with “the right” schools, suburban/country club sports, like fencing, swim, tennis, golf, squash, LAX, etc. and math enrichment since 4th grade, all geared to getting into that coveted T20, do not want to hear it won’t make that much difference in the long run.

+1 Important insight into the thinking of some who argue the most vociferously here.

[Anonymous]

All good points. Its a personal matter, and no two persons are same.
Perfectly fine trying to get in prestigious(whatever the definition is) school that is a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are motivated not to believe that where go to college doesn’t matter all that much, at least within the top 150-200 or so. Parents who have been carefully curating their kids lives with “the right” schools, suburban/country club sports, like fencing, swim, tennis, golf, squash, LAX, etc. and math enrichment since 4th grade, all geared to getting into that coveted T20, do not want to hear it won’t make that much difference in the long run.

It all depends. You can't be sure of anything in life. Just do your thing at a given moment.
If all things are equal and doesn't matter, I would like to go to a #15 ranked school rather than #189