Canceling $10k of student loan debt is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it as part of a larger trend toward coddling grown adults so they don't have to be responsible adults making good on their obligations. It's along the same line as people shouting "cancel rent!" I mean, come on. It's time to grow up all the way.

I mean, in the nostalgic past to which you are referring, most people did not go to college and if they did, loans were not available to them at all. You could actually work your way through a public college in 4 years with a relatively low paying job (waiting tables, retail, etc.).

I do actually think that young people today are immature and expect things to be easy. But ask yourself why that is true. Is it something inherent to this generation? No, it's how they were raised. We've created a culture where kids feel entitled to an education, but also feel pressured to get one. Where we have replaced expectations of independence (supporting yourself and your family) at a relatively young age with an amorphous expectation of "success" (impressive degrees, owning a home) at a relatively young age. The expectations for young people today are often shallow and nonsensical, but they are being pushed not by peers but by THEIR PARENTS. You think kids get expensive graduate degrees because their friends are doing it? No, they do it because their families have expectations of a certain kind of success and class status, and graduate school has been presented as a way to get there.

This is a mess of our own making. The idea that young people independently decided to start going to college and graduate school in bigger numbers, decided on their own to take out loans (which didn't used to even be available like this!), and are now struggling with the consequences of their own choices is silly -- this is a Boomer problem and it needs Boomers to help solve it. Yup, that might mean some loan forgiveness. The whole situation is dumb but it wasn't created by 18 yo kids making bad choices. It was created by their parents.

If we want social mobility, then kids should feel entitled to higher education. Independence at 18 usually means a crappy minimum wage job with no future prospects. This isn't 1960 where you can leave high school, join at local factory and have a great union job until you are ready to retire with a nice pension

I'm actually one of the people who believe community colleges should be free. However, I don't believe kids are entitled to an *expensive* education studying a subject that has limited earning potential, paid for by other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it as part of a larger trend toward coddling grown adults so they don't have to be responsible adults making good on their obligations. It's along the same line as people shouting "cancel rent!" I mean, come on. It's time to grow up all the way.

I mean, in the nostalgic past to which you are referring, most people did not go to college and if they did, loans were not available to them at all. You could actually work your way through a public college in 4 years with a relatively low paying job (waiting tables, retail, etc.).

I do actually think that young people today are immature and expect things to be easy. But ask yourself why that is true. Is it something inherent to this generation? No, it's how they were raised. We've created a culture where kids feel entitled to an education, but also feel pressured to get one. Where we have replaced expectations of independence (supporting yourself and your family) at a relatively young age with an amorphous expectation of "success" (impressive degrees, owning a home) at a relatively young age. The expectations for young people today are often shallow and nonsensical, but they are being pushed not by peers but by THEIR PARENTS. You think kids get expensive graduate degrees because their friends are doing it? No, they do it because their families have expectations of a certain kind of success and class status, and graduate school has been presented as a way to get there.

This is a mess of our own making. The idea that young people independently decided to start going to college and graduate school in bigger numbers, decided on their own to take out loans (which didn't used to even be available like this!), and are now struggling with the consequences of their own choices is silly -- this is a Boomer problem and it needs Boomers to help solve it. Yup, that might mean some loan forgiveness. The whole situation is dumb but it wasn't created by 18 yo kids making bad choices. It was created by their parents.

If we want social mobility, then kids should feel entitled to higher education. Independence at 18 usually means a crappy minimum wage job with no future prospects. This isn't 1960 where you can leave high school, join at local factory and have a great union job until you are ready to retire with a nice pension

Exactly -- this is the attitude of most Boomer and Gen X parents I know. But a college education now costs somewhere between 80-300k (and that 80k is increasingly hard to find). Some parents obviously save for this but many, many don't, or can't afford to do it for all of their kids. Schools offer less aid than they used to, especially as a percentage of actual costs, which go up every year.

Our society (and our parents) tell kids that they MUST get a college education to even have a chance at a middle class lifestyle for themselves and their kids. But that education is expensive and loans are presented as the de facto method for paying for it. This is what we've done for 40 years -- tell young people that anything less than a college degree is a failure, and then charge them increasing amounts for that degree while freely lending them money to pay for it. And now people act like the student loan crisis emerged because greedy 18 yo kids wanted "fancy" college degrees in art history and didn't think it through? No. We created this system and now it's blowing up in our faces, and our kids are the ones (literally) paying for it.

They don't have to. "For Virginia community colleges, the average tuition is approximately $3,736 per year for in-state students". That's about $15k for four years.

Yeah but then they are going to say "every child has a right to attend their dream school". It's just never ending BS.

Well, we are under no obligation to pay for other kid's BS dreams. Social services always provide for a baseline - individuals can choose to improve upon that, but on their own dime.

[Anonymous]

I am 100 percent forgiving any amount of student loan debt.

However make it zero percent interest or extend the time to repay maybe but principal should be paid back

[Anonymous]

Five colleges alone have $160,000,000,000 in savings.

Harvard University ($42 billion), Yale University ($31 billion), The University of Texas ($31 billion), Stanford University ($29 billion) and Princeton University ($26 billion)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it as part of a larger trend toward coddling grown adults so they don't have to be responsible adults making good on their obligations. It's along the same line as people shouting "cancel rent!" I mean, come on. It's time to grow up all the way.

It's part of a trend in things that are affordable in the rest of the developed world becoming increasingly unaffordable here. I do love grandma telling the kids how they waited table to pay their way through undergrad with no debt

Go look at the "affordable education" in the rest of the world. Some of it's affordable, but not accessible - the affordable colleges/universities are only available to a select few students. The US is in fact one of the few places where local community colleges provide an accessible and affordable college education. But no, most people don't want a community college degree. They are looking for a luxurious cocoon for 4 years to affirm their self-image and identity, on other people's dime.

Or they're looking for a four year degree because that's what most decent jobs require. I'd happily trade our system for one the bases the access to higher education on merit instead of money

Citation needed. This is a baseless assertion.

It's laughable you think that merit can be measured without considering the effects of having or not having money.

[Anonymous]

I went to college for free. I had financial aid based on my moms very low income.

I could not afford to go away to school so went local, drove a $200 car that was falling apart on side streets to school as unsafe on a highway. I graduated debt free.

I then got a job that paid for part time MBA and did that over 4 years for free.

Same deal everyone has right now if they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canceling any debt is stupid. You borrowed, you pay.

I agree, we should eliminate bankruptcy and bring back debtors prisons. Maybe airline executives would do a better job with that incentive. Or are you only talking about 18 year old kids being forced to make life altering decisions?

I agree that Student loans should be allowed to be discharged in bankruptcy like any other debt. Maybe filing for bankruptcy shouldn’t be so easy. And maybe people should Munro allowed to take out so much student debt. Where are the caps that an 18-22 year old can incur $100-200k in debt without a recognized means to pay it back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Five colleges alone have $160,000,000,000 in savings.

Harvard University ($42 billion), Yale University ($31 billion), The University of Texas ($31 billion), Stanford University ($29 billion) and Princeton University ($26 billion)

It's easy to point to these schools, but the argument falls flat. It would be very unlikely for a graduate of any of these schools to experience difficulty paying back their student loans. These schools give generous tuition relief to kids who cannot afford their full tuition. If you do happen to find the isolated cases where one of the grads are in heavy debt that they can't hope to pay off with their employment, it's just that: an isolated edge case of individual circumstances, rather than demonstrations of a systemic issue.

The problem is not with these rigorous schools, but rather the non-ranked "liberal arts" schools that charge substantial tuition, and whose financial aid office provides loan application support rather than tuition relief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it as part of a larger trend toward coddling grown adults so they don't have to be responsible adults making good on their obligations. It's along the same line as people shouting "cancel rent!" I mean, come on. It's time to grow up all the way.

It's part of a trend in things that are affordable in the rest of the developed world becoming increasingly unaffordable here. I do love grandma telling the kids how they waited table to pay their way through undergrad with no debt

Go look at the "affordable education" in the rest of the world. Some of it's affordable, but not accessible - the affordable colleges/universities are only available to a select few students. The US is in fact one of the few places where local community colleges provide an accessible and affordable college education. But no, most people don't want a community college degree. They are looking for a luxurious cocoon for 4 years to affirm their self-image and identity, on other people's dime.

Or they're looking for a four year degree because that's what most decent jobs require. I'd happily trade our system for one the bases the access to higher education on merit instead of money

Citation needed. This is a baseless assertion.

It's laughable you think that merit can be measured without considering the effects of having or not having money.

https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2018/data-on-display/education-pays.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it as part of a larger trend toward coddling grown adults so they don't have to be responsible adults making good on their obligations. It's along the same line as people shouting "cancel rent!" I mean, come on. It's time to grow up all the way.

It's part of a trend in things that are affordable in the rest of the developed world becoming increasingly unaffordable here. I do love grandma telling the kids how they waited table to pay their way through undergrad with no debt

Go look at the "affordable education" in the rest of the world. Some of it's affordable, but not accessible - the affordable colleges/universities are only available to a select few students. The US is in fact one of the few places where local community colleges provide an accessible and affordable college education. But no, most people don't want a community college degree. They are looking for a luxurious cocoon for 4 years to affirm their self-image and identity, on other people's dime.

Or they're looking for a four year degree because that's what most decent jobs require. I'd happily trade our system for one the bases the access to higher education on merit instead of money

Citation needed. This is a baseless assertion.

It's laughable you think that merit can be measured without considering the effects of having or not having money.

https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2018/data-on-display/education-pays.htm

This link just indicates that higher education is linked to higher pay, it does not show that "most decent jobs require" a four-year degree. Again, citation needed, or just admit that you were wrong to make that claim.

[Anonymous]

what is point of it? To look koowool? Get a high five? I'm not understanding what much a mere 10k of forgiveness would meaningfully do for anyone's day to day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it as part of a larger trend toward coddling grown adults so they don't have to be responsible adults making good on their obligations. It's along the same line as people shouting "cancel rent!" I mean, come on. It's time to grow up all the way.

It's part of a trend in things that are affordable in the rest of the developed world becoming increasingly unaffordable here. I do love grandma telling the kids how they waited table to pay their way through undergrad with no debt

Go look at the "affordable education" in the rest of the world. Some of it's affordable, but not accessible - the affordable colleges/universities are only available to a select few students. The US is in fact one of the few places where local community colleges provide an accessible and affordable college education. But no, most people don't want a community college degree. They are looking for a luxurious cocoon for 4 years to affirm their self-image and identity, on other people's dime.

Or they're looking for a four year degree because that's what most decent jobs require. I'd happily trade our system for one the bases the access to higher education on merit instead of money

Citation needed. This is a baseless assertion.

It's laughable you think that merit can be measured without considering the effects of having or not having money.

https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2018/data-on-display/education-pays.htm

This link just indicates that higher education is linked to higher pay, it does not show that "most decent jobs require" a four-year degree. Again, citation needed, or just admit that you were wrong to make that claim.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/occupation-finder.htm?pay=%2480%2C000+or+more&education=&training=&newjobs=&growth=&submit=GO

11 jobs paying over 80k do not require a degree (that's questionable given that commercial airline pilot is one of those jobs), 3 require an associates degree, 63 a bachelors, and another 57 require post secondary degrees

[Anonymous]

Any these proposals is there anything on the Tax treatment ? Forgiven debt is taxable income

[Anonymous]

There’s an episode of Throughline on NPR about the history of college debt. It’s very germane to this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see it as part of a larger trend toward coddling grown adults so they don't have to be responsible adults making good on their obligations. It's along the same line as people shouting "cancel rent!" I mean, come on. It's time to grow up all the way.

It's part of a trend in things that are affordable in the rest of the developed world becoming increasingly unaffordable here. I do love grandma telling the kids how they waited table to pay their way through undergrad with no debt

Go look at the "affordable education" in the rest of the world. Some of it's affordable, but not accessible - the affordable colleges/universities are only available to a select few students. The US is in fact one of the few places where local community colleges provide an accessible and affordable college education. But no, most people don't want a community college degree. They are looking for a luxurious cocoon for 4 years to affirm their self-image and identity, on other people's dime.

Or they're looking for a four year degree because that's what most decent jobs require. I'd happily trade our system for one the bases the access to higher education on merit instead of money

Citation needed. This is a baseless assertion.

It's laughable you think that merit can be measured without considering the effects of having or not having money.

https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2018/data-on-display/education-pays.htm

This link just indicates that higher education is linked to higher pay, it does not show that "most decent jobs require" a four-year degree. Again, citation needed, or just admit that you were wrong to make that claim.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/occupation-finder.htm?pay=%2480%2C000+or+more&education=&training=&newjobs=&growth=&submit=GO

11 jobs paying over 80k do not require a degree (that's questionable given that commercial airline pilot is one of those jobs), 3 require an associates degree, 63 a bachelors, and another 57 require post secondary degrees

You are going to have to cite authoritative sources to indicate that these are the only "decent" jobs out there.