Financial aid is a scam

[Anonymous]

Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So income factors into this highly, but what about expenses? Lets say your income is substantial, your house is worth 1 mil or more, but you have little equity in the house and a high mortgage payment. You also have car payments for expensive, newer model cars. And a lake or beach house (also mortgaged). Compare that to a family with the same income with a modest house that is paid off, so no mortgage payment, and no car payments, either, because they have older cars that are also paid off. The first family demonstrates more need on paper so likely has less EFC but lives much "larger" by choice than family #2.

Just look at the FAFSA formulas, it does not ask about monthly expenses, so, no. For CSS the questions re real estate are purchase price and date, current value, monthly payment. How the school processes that is their prerogative. Some schools don’t use it, some have extra info they collect.

My favorite is schools with a supplemental form, “What do you expect to pay?” One DC got one of these from Smith, the other from Macalester.

This is correct. People who choose to "live large" in having large monthly expenses do NOT benefit under the FAFSA in the calculation of their EFC.

Actually, they would, wouldn't they, if they are not saving for college and have no money available in accessible accounts? Whereas Family B may have saved hundreds of thousands for college and is expected to use it all, Family A may qualify for financial aid.

This is going in circles. Maybe the confusion, is just fantasy about how much financial aid is available. The FAFSA, calculates a number that your family is expected to pay. But that's just a number, there's no promise a family like yours *can* pay it, just that it was calculated in the same way for every family. In fact most people find the number much too high and discover available aid has not kept up with the cost of attendance at all. E.g. an awful lot of families have an EFC that is higher than the cost of attendance at their state school.

So you can blow 100K on a European vacation the year before filing, and the EFC will come in 6K lower, but that's still above full pay. Now you need to find a way to pay 28K a year, AND you have no savings. Or you could have had $100K in medical expenses, same thing, you still might be full pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So income factors into this highly, but what about expenses? Lets say your income is substantial, your house is worth 1 mil or more, but you have little equity in the house and a high mortgage payment. You also have car payments for expensive, newer model cars. And a lake or beach house (also mortgaged). Compare that to a family with the same income with a modest house that is paid off, so no mortgage payment, and no car payments, either, because they have older cars that are also paid off. The first family demonstrates more need on paper so likely has less EFC but lives much "larger" by choice than family #2.

Just look at the FAFSA formulas, it does not ask about monthly expenses, so, no. For CSS the questions re real estate are purchase price and date, current value, monthly payment. How the school processes that is their prerogative. Some schools don’t use it, some have extra info they collect.

My favorite is schools with a supplemental form, “What do you expect to pay?” One DC got one of these from Smith, the other from Macalester.

This is correct. People who choose to "live large" in having large monthly expenses do NOT benefit under the FAFSA in the calculation of their EFC.

Actually, they would, wouldn't they, if they are not saving for college and have no money available in accessible accounts? Whereas Family B may have saved hundreds of thousands for college and is expected to use it all, Family A may qualify for financial aid.

This is going in circles. Maybe the confusion, is just fantasy about how much financial aid is available. The FAFSA, calculates a number that your family is expected to pay. But that's just a number, there's no promise a family like yours *can* pay it, just that it was calculated in the same way for every family. In fact most people find the number much too high and discover available aid has not kept up with the cost of attendance at all. E.g. an awful lot of families have an EFC that is higher than the cost of attendance at their state school.

So you can blow 100K on a European vacation the year before filing, and the EFC will come in 6K lower, but that's still above full pay. Now you need to find a way to pay 28K a year, AND you have no savings. Or you could have had $100K in medical expenses, same thing, you still might be full pay.

Exactly. If your income is high enough (and we're not talking THAT high), you'll be full pay for a state school even if you have no savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

This is a really important consideration. It occurred to me to run net price calculators that ask about siblings in college both with and without the sibling (we have 2 kids, 2 years apart so for 2 years we'll be paying for both). Oldest is at a VA state school. Youngest is a rising senior and we're working on her list, looking for schools that have potential to fit our budget, beyond our VA public options. Several schools seem like they could be close on first running the calculator. But take out the sibling and then they balloon up to full pay $70-$80k. That is definitely not in the budget!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So income factors into this highly, but what about expenses? Lets say your income is substantial, your house is worth 1 mil or more, but you have little equity in the house and a high mortgage payment. You also have car payments for expensive, newer model cars. And a lake or beach house (also mortgaged). Compare that to a family with the same income with a modest house that is paid off, so no mortgage payment, and no car payments, either, because they have older cars that are also paid off. The first family demonstrates more need on paper so likely has less EFC but lives much "larger" by choice than family #2.

Just look at the FAFSA formulas, it does not ask about monthly expenses, so, no. For CSS the questions re real estate are purchase price and date, current value, monthly payment. How the school processes that is their prerogative. Some schools don’t use it, some have extra info they collect.

My favorite is schools with a supplemental form, “What do you expect to pay?” One DC got one of these from Smith, the other from Macalester.

This is correct. People who choose to "live large" in having large monthly expenses do NOT benefit under the FAFSA in the calculation of their EFC.

Actually, they would, wouldn't they, if they are not saving for college and have no money available in accessible accounts? Whereas Family B may have saved hundreds of thousands for college and is expected to use it all, Family A may qualify for financial aid.

This is going in circles. Maybe the confusion, is just fantasy about how much financial aid is available. The FAFSA, calculates a number that your family is expected to pay. But that's just a number, there's no promise a family like yours *can* pay it, just that it was calculated in the same way for every family. In fact most people find the number much too high and discover available aid has not kept up with the cost of attendance at all. E.g. an awful lot of families have an EFC that is higher than the cost of attendance at their state school.

So you can blow 100K on a European vacation the year before filing, and the EFC will come in 6K lower, but that's still above full pay. Now you need to find a way to pay 28K a year, AND you have no savings. Or you could have had $100K in medical expenses, same thing, you still might be full pay.

Exactly. If your income is high enough (and we're not talking THAT high), you'll be full pay for a state school even if you have no savings.

I wasn't talking about state schools; I was talking about schools that use CSS (yes, I know that some state schools use CSS, too).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

This is a really important consideration. It occurred to me to run net price calculators that ask about siblings in college both with and without the sibling (we have 2 kids, 2 years apart so for 2 years we'll be paying for both). Oldest is at a VA state school. Youngest is a rising senior and we're working on her list, looking for schools that have potential to fit our budget, beyond our VA public options. Several schools seem like they could be close on first running the calculator. But take out the sibling and then they balloon up to full pay $70-$80k. That is definitely not in the budget!

Well, this sux. I will have 3 in college at once and another likely in grad school at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing conflicting info as to whether: (1) equity in primary home, and (2) retirement savings such as IRAs and 401Ks raise your EFC.

Does anyone know the answer?? And whether the # of kids in a family is considered?

Some schools include primary home value in calculations, some don't. I don't think anyone includes 401K. That only factors in in terms of the contributions you made during the year which need to be included in your income for that year, but I have never seen a college factor in the 401K savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

This is a really important consideration. It occurred to me to run net price calculators that ask about siblings in college both with and without the sibling (we have 2 kids, 2 years apart so for 2 years we'll be paying for both). Oldest is at a VA state school. Youngest is a rising senior and we're working on her list, looking for schools that have potential to fit our budget, beyond our VA public options. Several schools seem like they could be close on first running the calculator. But take out the sibling and then they balloon up to full pay $70-$80k. That is definitely not in the budget!

Well, this sux. I will have 3 in college at once and another likely in grad school at the same time.

It has been delayed a bit. Hoping for further delays as I will have 2 in college in 2024, Thanks Lamar Alexander. This was his big idea saying that families chose to have kids close together and should not get a break. He added that nasty jab to the bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So income factors into this highly, but what about expenses? Lets say your income is substantial, your house is worth 1 mil or more, but you have little equity in the house and a high mortgage payment. You also have car payments for expensive, newer model cars. And a lake or beach house (also mortgaged). Compare that to a family with the same income with a modest house that is paid off, so no mortgage payment, and no car payments, either, because they have older cars that are also paid off. The first family demonstrates more need on paper so likely has less EFC but lives much "larger" by choice than family #2.

Just look at the FAFSA formulas, it does not ask about monthly expenses, so, no. For CSS the questions re real estate are purchase price and date, current value, monthly payment. How the school processes that is their prerogative. Some schools don’t use it, some have extra info they collect.

My favorite is schools with a supplemental form, “What do you expect to pay?” One DC got one of these from Smith, the other from Macalester.

This is correct. People who choose to "live large" in having large monthly expenses do NOT benefit under the FAFSA in the calculation of their EFC.

Actually, they would, wouldn't they, if they are not saving for college and have no money available in accessible accounts? Whereas Family B may have saved hundreds of thousands for college and is expected to use it all, Family A may qualify for financial aid.

This is going in circles. Maybe the confusion, is just fantasy about how much financial aid is available. The FAFSA, calculates a number that your family is expected to pay. But that's just a number, there's no promise a family like yours *can* pay it, just that it was calculated in the same way for every family. In fact most people find the number much too high and discover available aid has not kept up with the cost of attendance at all. E.g. an awful lot of families have an EFC that is higher than the cost of attendance at their state school.

So you can blow 100K on a European vacation the year before filing, and the EFC will come in 6K lower, but that's still above full pay. Now you need to find a way to pay 28K a year, AND you have no savings. Or you could have had $100K in medical expenses, same thing, you still might be full pay.

Exactly. If your income is high enough (and we're not talking THAT high), you'll be full pay for a state school even if you have no savings.

I wasn't talking about state schools; I was talking about schools that use CSS (yes, I know that some state schools use CSS, too).

So at best it’s about the same calculation but the baseline is much higher. That’s not a deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

This is a really important consideration. It occurred to me to run net price calculators that ask about siblings in college both with and without the sibling (we have 2 kids, 2 years apart so for 2 years we'll be paying for both). Oldest is at a VA state school. Youngest is a rising senior and we're working on her list, looking for schools that have potential to fit our budget, beyond our VA public options. Several schools seem like they could be close on first running the calculator. But take out the sibling and then they balloon up to full pay $70-$80k. That is definitely not in the budget!

Well, this sux. I will have 3 in college at once and another likely in grad school at the same time.

It has been delayed a bit. Hoping for further delays as I will have 2 in college in 2024, Thanks Lamar Alexander. This was his big idea saying that families chose to have kids close together and should not get a break. He added that nasty jab to the bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

This is a really important consideration. It occurred to me to run net price calculators that ask about siblings in college both with and without the sibling (we have 2 kids, 2 years apart so for 2 years we'll be paying for both). Oldest is at a VA state school. Youngest is a rising senior and we're working on her list, looking for schools that have potential to fit our budget, beyond our VA public options. Several schools seem like they could be close on first running the calculator. But take out the sibling and then they balloon up to full pay $70-$80k. That is definitely not in the budget!

Well, this sux. I will have 3 in college at once and another likely in grad school at the same time.

It has been delayed a bit. Hoping for further delays as I will have 2 in college in 2024, Thanks Lamar Alexander. This was his big idea saying that families chose to have kids close together and should not get a break. He added that nasty jab to the bill.

Wow, what about people with multiples? I suppose they chose to have them rather than abort them, so it was their choice? No, no fertility treatments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

This is a really important consideration. It occurred to me to run net price calculators that ask about siblings in college both with and without the sibling (we have 2 kids, 2 years apart so for 2 years we'll be paying for both). Oldest is at a VA state school. Youngest is a rising senior and we're working on her list, looking for schools that have potential to fit our budget, beyond our VA public options. Several schools seem like they could be close on first running the calculator. But take out the sibling and then they balloon up to full pay $70-$80k. That is definitely not in the budget!

Well, this sux. I will have 3 in college at once and another likely in grad school at the same time.

It has been delayed a bit. Hoping for further delays as I will have 2 in college in 2024, Thanks Lamar Alexander. This was his big idea saying that families chose to have kids close together and should not get a break. He added that nasty jab to the bill.

Wow, what about people with multiples? I suppose they chose to have them rather than abort them, so it was their choice? No, no fertility treatments.

You choose to have kids. I don't think people with more kids should get more financial aid than someone with fewer kids. They need to save and plan.

[Anonymous]

Right now multiple students brings down the FAFSA EFC some, but not many schools meet that to begin with. This is our only year with overlap. Neither school is meeting the EFC. DC1’s private is a little lower this year (about 2K), DC2’s in-state public is full pay and over EFC. Only $800 in aid, I assume is nearly automatic, certainly not sibling related. I guess it can be worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

This is a really important consideration. It occurred to me to run net price calculators that ask about siblings in college both with and without the sibling (we have 2 kids, 2 years apart so for 2 years we'll be paying for both). Oldest is at a VA state school. Youngest is a rising senior and we're working on her list, looking for schools that have potential to fit our budget, beyond our VA public options. Several schools seem like they could be close on first running the calculator. But take out the sibling and then they balloon up to full pay $70-$80k. That is definitely not in the budget!

Well, this sux. I will have 3 in college at once and another likely in grad school at the same time.

It has been delayed a bit. Hoping for further delays as I will have 2 in college in 2024, Thanks Lamar Alexander. This was his big idea saying that families chose to have kids close together and should not get a break. He added that nasty jab to the bill.

Wow, what about people with multiples? I suppose they chose to have them rather than abort them, so it was their choice? No, no fertility treatments.

You choose to have kids. I don't think people with more kids should get more financial aid than someone with fewer kids. They need to save and plan.

I don't think someone w 1-2 kids should be able to get financial aid at all, as there is no reason why they can't save and plan accordingly with such a minimal drain on their resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beginning in 2023, FASFA will use a “new formula for determining the “Expected Family Contribution” (EFC) — which will be renamed the “Student Aid Index” (SAI). The new FAFSA will still request information on the number of children in your household, but the SAI will no longer provide a discount for multiple children in college at the same time.”

This is a really important consideration. It occurred to me to run net price calculators that ask about siblings in college both with and without the sibling (we have 2 kids, 2 years apart so for 2 years we'll be paying for both). Oldest is at a VA state school. Youngest is a rising senior and we're working on her list, looking for schools that have potential to fit our budget, beyond our VA public options. Several schools seem like they could be close on first running the calculator. But take out the sibling and then they balloon up to full pay $70-$80k. That is definitely not in the budget!

Well, this sux. I will have 3 in college at once and another likely in grad school at the same time.

It has been delayed a bit. Hoping for further delays as I will have 2 in college in 2024, Thanks Lamar Alexander. This was his big idea saying that families chose to have kids close together and should not get a break. He added that nasty jab to the bill.

Wow, what about people with multiples? I suppose they chose to have them rather than abort them, so it was their choice? No, no fertility treatments.

You choose to have kids. I don't think people with more kids should get more financial aid than someone with fewer kids. They need to save and plan.

+1