Financial aid is a scam

[Anonymous]

OP I'm not sure I understand what the real difference is between what you expected vs reality?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

I think people are jarred by EFC not because they don't have the money, but because they didn't expect to be asked to spend it. I get it, it's a sticker shock, but if you don't want to spend down the assets you have, you can't expect to send your kids to a college that isn't otherwise a compromise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

I think people are jarred by EFC not because they don't have the money, but because they didn't expect to be asked to spend it. I get it, it's a sticker shock, but if you don't want to spend down the assets you have, you can't expect to send your kids to a college that isn't otherwise a compromise.

I get this on one level. At the same time though, this has been a key part of our retirement strategy, that is assets in non-retirement accounts. It does feel unfair that a family that has more income but less assets is expected pay less than a family that has less income but more assets because we will not be able to replace those assets in the same way that a higher income family will be able to build their assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I tell parents to have their children apply to 20 schools that all fall in a similar category. I did this with each of my kids (pissed off our FCPS guidance department) but the results were insane.

Oldest. Applied broadly and ended up at Wellesley which ended up costing us 10K a year less than in-state at UVA. She was fine with a women's college fwiw

Second, applied broadly and landed a full ride at Wash U. Also, fine with it (wanted STEM and though hopkins and CMU were a fit. Oddly got less money at Tech or "lesser" schools fwiw). We negotiated among these schools and Wash U basically bit itself up to a full ride.

Third -- pulled a full ride at Malacaster. same story.

PP, can you say more about this? Did you negotiate price among the schools that had offered admission to your kids once they were in? Did you pick the top school and go back to them with a request for more aid based on what was offered elsewhere?

It is a crazy hustle but only a month of nuttiness so worth it.

In late March to early May each college sent their aid packages. We immediately asked for more/reconsideration and expressed interest in attending the school if the aid situation made it feasible (no hard numbers). A lot of schools didn't care (NYU) but others really opened their wallets or we willing to have calls to discuss. For the latter, we had phone meetings that my kid AND BOTH PARENTS attended together. Expressed interest, asked for more funding, etc.

During late April, we took all of our peer schools (so schools that fell around each other in rankings etc) and if they were willing to match an offer. most didn't just match but exceeded them. The kid then picked.

You have to divorce the idea of a perfect college once you get beyond a general approach and be very flexible but for the money all three of my kids were willing to do this.

ALL OF THIS endlessly pissed off FCPS guidance and admin fwiw. Like my kids got a metric ton of shit requesting so many applications letters from guidance but whatever. Half of the apps were fee waivers, fwiw. We got them automatically or just asked and were given them in the fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD received full ride scholarship to the school she will attend this fall (Clemson). We have high EFC and the our EFC was more that the COA for the school she is attending but she was selected for a unique scholarship opportunity only presented to four students that covered full tuition room and board for all 4 years. She also received over $100k in outside scholarships that she will be able to get a refunds each semester due to overages on her account. So basically she is getting paid to go to school. Point is there is merit money available at the schools and outside school that does not even take your income into account.

But as you indicated, there are not many "full ride" merit scholarships at most schools, especially higher ranked schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

I think people are jarred by EFC not because they don't have the money, but because they didn't expect to be asked to spend it. I get it, it's a sticker shock, but if you don't want to spend down the assets you have, you can't expect to send your kids to a college that isn't otherwise a compromise.

I get this on one level. At the same time though, this has been a key part of our retirement strategy, that is assets in non-retirement accounts. It does feel unfair that a family that has more income but less assets is expected pay less than a family that has less income but more assets because we will not be able to replace those assets in the same way that a higher income family will be able to build their assets.

Whatever benefit you got from that strategy, now this result. Hopefully it was more than the delta between what you could have gotten in aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

House paid off. Honest question: Do they expect people to mortgage their house and dip into IRAs and 401Ks to pay for college? Am I better off upgrading my house, getting a mortgage, and having a car payment? While I live modestly and refrain from purchases and upgrades, I'm being charged more for college tuition, I guess. I pay for younger kids' private school tuition, but they don't seem to take that into consideration, just whether I am paying for other college tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

I think people are jarred by EFC not because they don't have the money, but because they didn't expect to be asked to spend it. I get it, it's a sticker shock, but if you don't want to spend down the assets you have, you can't expect to send your kids to a college that isn't otherwise a compromise.

I get this on one level. At the same time though, this has been a key part of our retirement strategy, that is assets in non-retirement accounts. It does feel unfair that a family that has more income but less assets is expected pay less than a family that has less income but more assets because we will not be able to replace those assets in the same way that a higher income family will be able to build their assets.

Right. Seems to reward consumerism. Guess I should have vacationed more and bought that SUV like everyone else did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

I think people are jarred by EFC not because they don't have the money, but because they didn't expect to be asked to spend it. I get it, it's a sticker shock, but if you don't want to spend down the assets you have, you can't expect to send your kids to a college that isn't otherwise a compromise.

I get this on one level. At the same time though, this has been a key part of our retirement strategy, that is assets in non-retirement accounts. It does feel unfair that a family that has more income but less assets is expected pay less than a family that has less income but more assets because we will not be able to replace those assets in the same way that a higher income family will be able to build their assets.

Right. Seems to reward consumerism. Guess I should have vacationed more and bought that SUV like everyone else did.

Given the full-pay admissions advantage, maybe not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

I think people are jarred by EFC not because they don't have the money, but because they didn't expect to be asked to spend it. I get it, it's a sticker shock, but if you don't want to spend down the assets you have, you can't expect to send your kids to a college that isn't otherwise a compromise.

And when you hear about others living in McMansions with the latest and greatest of everything talk about FAFSA and how much they are getting when you get 0....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

I think people are jarred by EFC not because they don't have the money, but because they didn't expect to be asked to spend it. I get it, it's a sticker shock, but if you don't want to spend down the assets you have, you can't expect to send your kids to a college that isn't otherwise a compromise.

And when you hear about others living in McMansions with the latest and greatest of everything talk about FAFSA and how much they are getting when you get 0....

I mean if you're so good with money and they spend it all, I assume you plan to have a comfortable retirement and they won't? I assume the difference is FAR more than just college tuition?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I tell parents to have their children apply to 20 schools that all fall in a similar category. I did this with each of my kids (pissed off our FCPS guidance department) but the results were insane.

Oldest. Applied broadly and ended up at Wellesley which ended up costing us 10K a year less than in-state at UVA. She was fine with a women's college fwiw

Second, applied broadly and landed a full ride at Wash U. Also, fine with it (wanted STEM and though hopkins and CMU were a fit. Oddly got less money at Tech or "lesser" schools fwiw). We negotiated among these schools and Wash U basically bit itself up to a full ride.

Third -- pulled a full ride at Malacaster. same story.

PP, can you say more about this? Did you negotiate price among the schools that had offered admission to your kids once they were in? Did you pick the top school and go back to them with a request for more aid based on what was offered elsewhere?

It is a crazy hustle but only a month of nuttiness so worth it.

In late March to early May each college sent their aid packages. We immediately asked for more/reconsideration and expressed interest in attending the school if the aid situation made it feasible (no hard numbers). A lot of schools didn't care (NYU) but others really opened their wallets or we willing to have calls to discuss. For the latter, we had phone meetings that my kid AND BOTH PARENTS attended together. Expressed interest, asked for more funding, etc.

During late April, we took all of our peer schools (so schools that fell around each other in rankings etc) and if they were willing to match an offer. most didn't just match but exceeded them. The kid then picked.

You have to divorce the idea of a perfect college once you get beyond a general approach and be very flexible but for the money all three of my kids were willing to do this.

ALL OF THIS endlessly pissed off FCPS guidance and admin fwiw. Like my kids got a metric ton of shit requesting so many applications letters from guidance but whatever. Half of the apps were fee waivers, fwiw. We got them automatically or just asked and were given them in the fall.

Did any schools not offer more?

[Anonymous]

I'm seeing conflicting info as to whether: (1) equity in primary home, and (2) retirement savings such as IRAs and 401Ks raise your EFC.

Does anyone know the answer?? And whether the # of kids in a family is considered?

[Anonymous]

From Harvard:

Assessing Your Need

Once you're admitted, the Financial Aid Committee will assess your family’s financial need and offer you an award to meet it. We determine need based on your family’s income, assets, and overall financial circumstances. You'll never be required to take on loans, and we don't factor in home equity or retirement savings when crafting your aid package. Most importantly, your financial situation will not affect your chances of admission to Harvard College.

We know that each student's financial circumstances are unique. Your financial aid officer will work with you all four years to understand your needs and take the stress out of affording Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re middle of the road, you don’t get much.

We are middle of the road income. Paid approximately $100,000 for an ivy degree. Of that amount, I subtract room and board. Less than half went to tuition.

What do you consider middle of the road income?

$150,000

Wow, what year did you pay $25K / year at an Ivy? My EFC was a lot higher, yet income wasn't much more.

Suspect I may be dinged for having modest house paid off and driving old cars that are paid off and worth nothing. Not sure they care that I am paying tuition for younger kids' private school, either, though they do ask if I will be paying college tuition for anyone else.

You must have had assets - investment, house equity, etc.

I think people are jarred by EFC not because they don't have the money, but because they didn't expect to be asked to spend it. I get it, it's a sticker shock, but if you don't want to spend down the assets you have, you can't expect to send your kids to a college that isn't otherwise a compromise.

And when you hear about others living in McMansions with the latest and greatest of everything talk about FAFSA and how much they are getting when you get 0....

I mean if you're so good with money and they spend it all, I assume you plan to have a comfortable retirement and they won't? I assume the difference is FAR more than just college tuition?

No, bc their retirement assets (probably greater than mine) won't affect their aid.