Association of your values with Devil / Satan: is it offensive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

I’m not atheist so let me flip this in order to answer. If an atheist told me that I’m a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food, etc, then no I won’t be offended. I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

If you want to flip the question, let's add some fictitious background. The atheists were in charge of the world and they prosecuted you for your beliefs throughout the history. You could be imprisoned, tortured, and / or burned alive because your beliefs. After millennia of prosecution, you are finally free to talk about your God and practice your religion. But there are still those people who call you a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food. Would that offend you?

No. As I said, I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

Can you see why an atheist might be offended by association with the Devil though?

At some point, you have to care only about yourself and your own beliefs and not care what other people think. People are different and have different beliefs. We can’t control other people’s beliefs: we just have to live our own lives the way we choose.

You may be able to live your life the way you choose, but not everyone can. Do you remember the fight to keep religion out of science classes? There is a supermajority of religious nuts on the supreme court who started ruling based on their religious beliefs. It is easy to suggest that everyone can live their lives the way they choose when that is clearly not an option.

Not thinking and worrying about what other people think of you has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. You can’t change other people’s beliefs, just as they can’t change yours. Not everyone is going to like you or agree with you and you are not going to like or agree with everyone else. It is life and you can’t go around getting upset that everyone else is not exact Like you or the other way around.

That is not true. I never thought that the position of the furniture in the room mattered. Then I heard about Feng Shui and I started to place my furniture accordingly. After a while I figured out what a nonsense I believed in and I stopped paying attention to the way I arrange my furniture. People change their beliefs all the time.

You changed your own belief. Someone else didn’t somehow go into your mind and change your beliefs.

I disagree. People who described Feng Shui on Internet made me aware of the practice. Initially it made sense that orienting your bed according to the Earth's poles may make a difference in your well-being. Without those people, I wouldn't have acquired that belief. It lasted for a while until I started reading opinions stating the opposite. It took a while to realize that my belief in Feng Shui was not supported by any type of evidence. It was these other people who convinced me that my belief in Feng Shui doesn't make sense. It's all about educating yourself and using critical thinking to acquire new beliefs or change the old ones. You just need the flexibility to change your mind based on the evidence that is available to you. I would not be comfortable being stuck in my own beliefs in spite of all the evidence that I am wrong.

You took your own action to change your mind about something. No one charged your mind for you. You did your own research and made decisions for yourself based on that research. No one did that for you or to you. No one can change your inner beliefs except you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an atheist. I guess it would annoy me/offend me in same way if you compared me to any mythological or fictional villain. Like the Joker, a skinwalker, Loki, or the boogeyman.

I do get offended when my values are compared to real evils like the Holocaust.

I think the performance of the regimes forcing atheism on people: USSR, China, North Korea and Khmer Rouge give us plenty of examples of "real evils."

Or we can look to the crusades or missionaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an atheist. I guess it would annoy me/offend me in same way if you compared me to any mythological or fictional villain. Like the Joker, a skinwalker, Loki, or the boogeyman.

I do get offended when my values are compared to real evils like the Holocaust.

I think the performance of the regimes forcing atheism on people: USSR, China, North Korea and Khmer Rouge give us plenty of examples of "real evils."

Or we can look to the crusades or missionaries.

The crusades were 1000 years ago. Not Christianity’s best moment, but then again, the Byzantine emperor was facing muslim invasion and asked the west to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

I’m not atheist so let me flip this in order to answer. If an atheist told me that I’m a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food, etc, then no I won’t be offended. I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

If you want to flip the question, let's add some fictitious background. The atheists were in charge of the world and they prosecuted you for your beliefs throughout the history. You could be imprisoned, tortured, and / or burned alive because your beliefs. After millennia of prosecution, you are finally free to talk about your God and practice your religion. But there are still those people who call you a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food. Would that offend you?

No. As I said, I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

Can you see why an atheist might be offended by association with the Devil though?

At some point, you have to care only about yourself and your own beliefs and not care what other people think. People are different and have different beliefs. We can’t control other people’s beliefs: we just have to live our own lives the way we choose.

You may be able to live your life the way you choose, but not everyone can. Do you remember the fight to keep religion out of science classes? There is a supermajority of religious nuts on the supreme court who started ruling based on their religious beliefs. It is easy to suggest that everyone can live their lives the way they choose when that is clearly not an option.

Not thinking and worrying about what other people think of you has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. You can’t change other people’s beliefs, just as they can’t change yours. Not everyone is going to like you or agree with you and you are not going to like or agree with everyone else. It is life and you can’t go around getting upset that everyone else is not exact Like you or the other way around.

That is not true. I never thought that the position of the furniture in the room mattered. Then I heard about Feng Shui and I started to place my furniture accordingly. After a while I figured out what a nonsense I believed in and I stopped paying attention to the way I arrange my furniture. People change their beliefs all the time.

You changed your own belief. Someone else didn’t somehow go into your mind and change your beliefs.

I disagree. People who described Feng Shui on Internet made me aware of the practice. Initially it made sense that orienting your bed according to the Earth's poles may make a difference in your well-being. Without those people, I wouldn't have acquired that belief. It lasted for a while until I started reading opinions stating the opposite. It took a while to realize that my belief in Feng Shui was not supported by any type of evidence. It was these other people who convinced me that my belief in Feng Shui doesn't make sense. It's all about educating yourself and using critical thinking to acquire new beliefs or change the old ones. You just need the flexibility to change your mind based on the evidence that is available to you. I would not be comfortable being stuck in my own beliefs in spite of all the evidence that I am wrong.

You took your own action to change your mind about something. No one charged your mind for you. You did your own research and made decisions for yourself based on that research. No one did that for you or to you. No one can change your inner beliefs except you.

In olden times, openly changing your mind about religion was punishable by death

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an atheist. I guess it would annoy me/offend me in same way if you compared me to any mythological or fictional villain. Like the Joker, a skinwalker, Loki, or the boogeyman.

I do get offended when my values are compared to real evils like the Holocaust.

I think the performance of the regimes forcing atheism on people: USSR, China, North Korea and Khmer Rouge give us plenty of examples of "real evils."

Or we can look to the crusades or missionaries.

The crusades were 1000 years ago. Not Christianity’s best moment, but then again, the Byzantine emperor was facing muslim invasion and asked the west to help.

Sounds like you're justifying the crusades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an atheist. I guess it would annoy me/offend me in same way if you compared me to any mythological or fictional villain. Like the Joker, a skinwalker, Loki, or the boogeyman.

I do get offended when my values are compared to real evils like the Holocaust.

I think the performance of the regimes forcing atheism on people: USSR, China, North Korea and Khmer Rouge give us plenty of examples of "real evils."

Or we can look to the crusades or missionaries.

The crusades were 1000 years ago. Not Christianity’s best moment, but then again, the Byzantine emperor was facing muslim invasion and asked the west to help.

Sounds like you're justifying the crusades.

and not addressing the missionaries, which still exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

I’m not atheist so let me flip this in order to answer. If an atheist told me that I’m a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food, etc, then no I won’t be offended. I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

If you want to flip the question, let's add some fictitious background. The atheists were in charge of the world and they prosecuted you for your beliefs throughout the history. You could be imprisoned, tortured, and / or burned alive because your beliefs. After millennia of prosecution, you are finally free to talk about your God and practice your religion. But there are still those people who call you a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food. Would that offend you?

No. As I said, I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

Can you see why an atheist might be offended by association with the Devil though?

At some point, you have to care only about yourself and your own beliefs and not care what other people think. People are different and have different beliefs. We can’t control other people’s beliefs: we just have to live our own lives the way we choose.

You may be able to live your life the way you choose, but not everyone can. Do you remember the fight to keep religion out of science classes? There is a supermajority of religious nuts on the supreme court who started ruling based on their religious beliefs. It is easy to suggest that everyone can live their lives the way they choose when that is clearly not an option.

Not thinking and worrying about what other people think of you has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. You can’t change other people’s beliefs, just as they can’t change yours. Not everyone is going to like you or agree with you and you are not going to like or agree with everyone else. It is life and you can’t go around getting upset that everyone else is not exact Like you or the other way around.

That is not true. I never thought that the position of the furniture in the room mattered. Then I heard about Feng Shui and I started to place my furniture accordingly. After a while I figured out what a nonsense I believed in and I stopped paying attention to the way I arrange my furniture. People change their beliefs all the time.

You changed your own belief. Someone else didn’t somehow go into your mind and change your beliefs.

I disagree. People who described Feng Shui on Internet made me aware of the practice. Initially it made sense that orienting your bed according to the Earth's poles may make a difference in your well-being. Without those people, I wouldn't have acquired that belief. It lasted for a while until I started reading opinions stating the opposite. It took a while to realize that my belief in Feng Shui was not supported by any type of evidence. It was these other people who convinced me that my belief in Feng Shui doesn't make sense. It's all about educating yourself and using critical thinking to acquire new beliefs or change the old ones. You just need the flexibility to change your mind based on the evidence that is available to you. I would not be comfortable being stuck in my own beliefs in spite of all the evidence that I am wrong.

You took your own action to change your mind about something. No one charged your mind for you. You did your own research and made decisions for yourself based on that research. No one did that for you or to you. No one can change your inner beliefs except you.

pp was affected by information available to them - some pro Feng shui, some con Feng shui. pp analyzed the info and came to a conclusion. The information changed app's inner beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

I’m not atheist so let me flip this in order to answer. If an atheist told me that I’m a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food, etc, then no I won’t be offended. I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

If you want to flip the question, let's add some fictitious background. The atheists were in charge of the world and they prosecuted you for your beliefs throughout the history. You could be imprisoned, tortured, and / or burned alive because your beliefs. After millennia of prosecution, you are finally free to talk about your God and practice your religion. But there are still those people who call you a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food. Would that offend you?

No. As I said, I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

Can you see why an atheist might be offended by association with the Devil though?

At some point, you have to care only about yourself and your own beliefs and not care what other people think. People are different and have different beliefs. We can’t control other people’s beliefs: we just have to live our own lives the way we choose.

You may be able to live your life the way you choose, but not everyone can. Do you remember the fight to keep religion out of science classes? There is a supermajority of religious nuts on the supreme court who started ruling based on their religious beliefs. It is easy to suggest that everyone can live their lives the way they choose when that is clearly not an option.

Not thinking and worrying about what other people think of you has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. You can’t change other people’s beliefs, just as they can’t change yours. Not everyone is going to like you or agree with you and you are not going to like or agree with everyone else. It is life and you can’t go around getting upset that everyone else is not exact Like you or the other way around.

That is not true. I never thought that the position of the furniture in the room mattered. Then I heard about Feng Shui and I started to place my furniture accordingly. After a while I figured out what a nonsense I believed in and I stopped paying attention to the way I arrange my furniture. People change their beliefs all the time.

You changed your own belief. Someone else didn’t somehow go into your mind and change your beliefs.

Feng shui pp and everyone -- including you -- are influenced by other people and other things. Sometimes change occurs because of these influences and sometimes it does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

I’m not atheist so let me flip this in order to answer. If an atheist told me that I’m a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food, etc, then no I won’t be offended. I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

If you want to flip the question, let's add some fictitious background. The atheists were in charge of the world and they prosecuted you for your beliefs throughout the history. You could be imprisoned, tortured, and / or burned alive because your beliefs. After millennia of prosecution, you are finally free to talk about your God and practice your religion. But there are still those people who call you a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food. Would that offend you?

No. As I said, I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

Can you see why an atheist might be offended by association with the Devil though?

At some point, you have to care only about yourself and your own beliefs and not care what other people think. People are different and have different beliefs. We can’t control other people’s beliefs: we just have to live our own lives the way we choose.

You may be able to live your life the way you choose, but not everyone can. Do you remember the fight to keep religion out of science classes? There is a supermajority of religious nuts on the supreme court who started ruling based on their religious beliefs. It is easy to suggest that everyone can live their lives the way they choose when that is clearly not an option.

Not thinking and worrying about what other people think of you has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. You can’t change other people’s beliefs, just as they can’t change yours. Not everyone is going to like you or agree with you and you are not going to like or agree with everyone else. It is life and you can’t go around getting upset that everyone else is not exact Like you or the other way around.

That is not true. I never thought that the position of the furniture in the room mattered. Then I heard about Feng Shui and I started to place my furniture accordingly. After a while I figured out what a nonsense I believed in and I stopped paying attention to the way I arrange my furniture. People change their beliefs all the time.

You changed your own belief. Someone else didn’t somehow go into your mind and change your beliefs.

I disagree. People who described Feng Shui on Internet made me aware of the practice. Initially it made sense that orienting your bed according to the Earth's poles may make a difference in your well-being. Without those people, I wouldn't have acquired that belief. It lasted for a while until I started reading opinions stating the opposite. It took a while to realize that my belief in Feng Shui was not supported by any type of evidence. It was these other people who convinced me that my belief in Feng Shui doesn't make sense. It's all about educating yourself and using critical thinking to acquire new beliefs or change the old ones. You just need the flexibility to change your mind based on the evidence that is available to you. I would not be comfortable being stuck in my own beliefs in spite of all the evidence that I am wrong.

You took your own action to change your mind about something. No one charged your mind for you. You did your own research and made decisions for yourself based on that research. No one did that for you or to you. No one can change your inner beliefs except you.

pp was affected by information available to them - some pro Feng shui, some con Feng shui. pp analyzed the info and came to a conclusion. The information changed app's inner beliefs.

Yes, pp took action with researched information and changed their own inner beliefs. No one forced a change of inner beliefs on the pp. We can all change our inner beliefs if we choose to when we acquire new information, but no one can force us to change our inner beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

I’m not atheist so let me flip this in order to answer. If an atheist told me that I’m a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food, etc, then no I won’t be offended. I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

If you want to flip the question, let's add some fictitious background. The atheists were in charge of the world and they prosecuted you for your beliefs throughout the history. You could be imprisoned, tortured, and / or burned alive because your beliefs. After millennia of prosecution, you are finally free to talk about your God and practice your religion. But there are still those people who call you a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food. Would that offend you?

No. As I said, I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

Can you see why an atheist might be offended by association with the Devil though?

At some point, you have to care only about yourself and your own beliefs and not care what other people think. People are different and have different beliefs. We can’t control other people’s beliefs: we just have to live our own lives the way we choose.

You may be able to live your life the way you choose, but not everyone can. Do you remember the fight to keep religion out of science classes? There is a supermajority of religious nuts on the supreme court who started ruling based on their religious beliefs. It is easy to suggest that everyone can live their lives the way they choose when that is clearly not an option.

Not thinking and worrying about what other people think of you has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. You can’t change other people’s beliefs, just as they can’t change yours. Not everyone is going to like you or agree with you and you are not going to like or agree with everyone else. It is life and you can’t go around getting upset that everyone else is not exact Like you or the other way around.

That is not true. I never thought that the position of the furniture in the room mattered. Then I heard about Feng Shui and I started to place my furniture accordingly. After a while I figured out what a nonsense I believed in and I stopped paying attention to the way I arrange my furniture. People change their beliefs all the time.

You changed your own belief. Someone else didn’t somehow go into your mind and change your beliefs.

I disagree. People who described Feng Shui on Internet made me aware of the practice. Initially it made sense that orienting your bed according to the Earth's poles may make a difference in your well-being. Without those people, I wouldn't have acquired that belief. It lasted for a while until I started reading opinions stating the opposite. It took a while to realize that my belief in Feng Shui was not supported by any type of evidence. It was these other people who convinced me that my belief in Feng Shui doesn't make sense. It's all about educating yourself and using critical thinking to acquire new beliefs or change the old ones. You just need the flexibility to change your mind based on the evidence that is available to you. I would not be comfortable being stuck in my own beliefs in spite of all the evidence that I am wrong.

You took your own action to change your mind about something. No one charged your mind for you. You did your own research and made decisions for yourself based on that research. No one did that for you or to you. No one can change your inner beliefs except you.

pp was affected by information available to them - some pro Feng shui, some con Feng shui. pp analyzed the info and came to a conclusion. The information changed app's inner beliefs.

Yes, pp took action with researched information and changed their own inner beliefs. No one forced a change of inner beliefs on the pp. We can all change our inner beliefs if we choose to when we acquire new information, but no one can force us to change our inner beliefs.

What is an "inner" belief?

Is there such a thing as an "outer" belief?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

I’m not atheist so let me flip this in order to answer. If an atheist told me that I’m a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food, etc, then no I won’t be offended. I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

If you want to flip the question, let's add some fictitious background. The atheists were in charge of the world and they prosecuted you for your beliefs throughout the history. You could be imprisoned, tortured, and / or burned alive because your beliefs. After millennia of prosecution, you are finally free to talk about your God and practice your religion. But there are still those people who call you a moron for believing in God, that there is no God, God ruins the world, my afterlife is just being worm food. Would that offend you?

No. As I said, I don’t care - you can believe what you want. I’m happy and am assured with my faith.

Can you see why an atheist might be offended by association with the Devil though?

At some point, you have to care only about yourself and your own beliefs and not care what other people think. People are different and have different beliefs. We can’t control other people’s beliefs: we just have to live our own lives the way we choose.

You may be able to live your life the way you choose, but not everyone can. Do you remember the fight to keep religion out of science classes? There is a supermajority of religious nuts on the supreme court who started ruling based on their religious beliefs. It is easy to suggest that everyone can live their lives the way they choose when that is clearly not an option.

Not thinking and worrying about what other people think of you has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. You can’t change other people’s beliefs, just as they can’t change yours. Not everyone is going to like you or agree with you and you are not going to like or agree with everyone else. It is life and you can’t go around getting upset that everyone else is not exact Like you or the other way around.

That is not true. I never thought that the position of the furniture in the room mattered. Then I heard about Feng Shui and I started to place my furniture accordingly. After a while I figured out what a nonsense I believed in and I stopped paying attention to the way I arrange my furniture. People change their beliefs all the time.

You changed your own belief. Someone else didn’t somehow go into your mind and change your beliefs.

Feng shui pp and everyone -- including you -- are influenced by other people and other things. Sometimes change occurs because of these influences and sometimes it does not.

Exactly. We all take in our own information from the outside world and sometimes use that outside information to change our own individual inner beliefs. No one can force a change in inner beliefs on us.

[Anonymous]

I'm an atheist. Why would I care what someone who believes in fictional stories thinks about me? Doesn't insult me, doesn't offend me in the slightest.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

As I tried to explain, your morals are literally offensive to many religions. It doesn't matter that your morals overlap theirs to some extent. You hold them for the wrong reasons. Lucky for you, you live in a country that tolerates religious, including none, diversity. But whether it offends you, is up to you.

Well, they were forced to change their attitude in time. And they will have to continue changing their attitude to keep up with the times. You have quite a few options:
1. You can sit back and pretend that it's just freedom of speech and you can't do anything about it.
2. You can pretend that you have no idea what they mean when they associate you with the devil.
3. You can pretend that you are above all this and their devil is just another comic book character.
4. You can point out that their attitude is hateful and force them to change.

So, your argument is basically, I am an atheist, therefore I am right. People must accept and admit that I am right.

FYI, forcing people to change never works.

Do you still believe that religious people were right when they were imprisoning, torturing, burning, and killing atheists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez, are you the same poster who went on and on about feeling duped by that Shen Yun show? Atheist here, and I think you need to get a grip and let it go. Who the heck cares whether your belief system is associated with the devil in some people’s religions? Since I don’t believe in it, whatever, it’s like being associated with the tooth fairy or something.

They 100% are. And for those that are confused, no one in OP’s thread in the Entertainment forum said he didn’t have morals. You do not need to be religious to have morals. Otherwise we wouldn’t have millions of stories of religious men acting without morals.

Thank you for admitting the bolded part. I never claimed anything about what was said on the other thread. I just wanted to separate this discussion from that thread because there were several people saying that atheists should not be offended by any association with the Devil (because the Devil doesn't exist for them). It happens that I personally don't agree with that line of thought.

DP. From a religious point of view, your morals are meaningless. They likely have a teological origin rooted in observations and outcomes. In most, I hesitate to say all because I am not familiar with every religion, morals are derived from a divine source, either through enlightenment or direct communication with their Supreme Being. This deontological origin is troubling to some, because there is no why. It's just the rules that your religion asks you to follow. From a religious point of view, if your morals don't come from God, the only other choice is the hubris of man. To believe you can know the mind of God is sacrilegious in many religions.

Thank you for the additional background. Now back to the original question: should an atheist feel offended by the association with the Devil, or this association is just a tenderhearted, compassionate compliment?

As I tried to explain, your morals are literally offensive to many religions. It doesn't matter that your morals overlap theirs to some extent. You hold them for the wrong reasons. Lucky for you, you live in a country that tolerates religious, including none, diversity. But whether it offends you, is up to you.

Well, they were forced to change their attitude in time. And they will have to continue changing their attitude to keep up with the times. You have quite a few options:
1. You can sit back and pretend that it's just freedom of speech and you can't do anything about it.
2. You can pretend that you have no idea what they mean when they associate you with the devil.
3. You can pretend that you are above all this and their devil is just another comic book character.
4. You can point out that their attitude is hateful and force them to change.

So, your argument is basically, I am an atheist, therefore I am right. People must accept and admit that I am right.

FYI, forcing people to change never works.

Sorry, pp, but you got it wrong. Previous pp is expressing various options available to people. Only one option, #6, involves forcing, without saying how that would happen.

Probably education would work the best when it comes about changing beliefs. Maybe religious people don't understand that associating atheism with Devil / Satan is practically hate speech. You as a religious person, declare that my identity is the absolutely worst thing that you can think of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an atheist. I guess it would annoy me/offend me in same way if you compared me to any mythological or fictional villain. Like the Joker, a skinwalker, Loki, or the boogeyman.

I do get offended when my values are compared to real evils like the Holocaust.

I think the performance of the regimes forcing atheism on people: USSR, China, North Korea and Khmer Rouge give us plenty of examples of "real evils."

Would you suggest that atheists should be all held accountable because some autocrats like Stalin, Mao, and Kim Il-sung decided to kill their own people?