What are the real facts about MCPS inequities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

Wheaton has a new building, two excellent STEM magnets, and an AP participation rate much higher than 2%.

Yes. For Wheaton's class of '21, 61% took at least one AP exam.

Wheaton also had only 84.4% graduation rate and 10.3% dropout. And yes, only 63.2% met Maryland College entrance requirements. (and it's 76.6% FARMS, not 50%).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04782.pdf

Blair has similar stats. 62.9% college ready, 86.1% graduation rate, and an 8.8% dropout rate.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf

I would cite both schools as examples of what happens when you have an overachiever group or "haves" mixed in with kids that don't see a future in learning Calculus and the have not's. Having brainiac magnet kids doesn't help the 40% aren't even going to make it into college, nor did it help the 10% that check out of school altogether.

This is where MCPS fails the kids. They push the only-college mantra versus trade programs (technical schools, trade schools, small business programs, etc.) for that 40% so at least a kid can make a living. If State social programs had kicked in back in Elementary School, maybe the kids would have a chance, but by Middle School it's a declining academic path for many of them.

MCPS has multiple trade programs. Its up to the parents to sign up their kids. They have very good programs.

The trade programs are pretty good. However as a teacher in one of these programs it is important the kids are motivated. If a kid is doing nothing in his classes, signing up for a trade program won't usually change much. Poor grades will eventually cause that kid to get ejected from the program.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As far as athletics at a W school, I am often in sticker shock as to what parents are expected to pay so our child can participate on a team and the range of expense per sport. Cheer was about $500 with uniforms, bows, shoes, etc. Football was $350 but that included pregame meals but didn’t include equipment costs that were an additional $200. Banquet tickets were always extra and were usually $100 per parent.

We do have a small portion of section 8 families in our school, so I often wonder if they feel discouraged to participate because of the high cost to participate.

My DC was in the selective All-County Chorus. Students were instructed to wear their choral "uniforms" from their home school. I have to admit - I was impressed that the male Whitman singers wore tails! I don't begrudge them this, but I am sure that they are expensive and not economically accessible to students from many other MCPS schools. I loved hearing our students sing together, however.

In the choral arts, I did notice a difference in the choral arts. I believe that Whitman has 5 different choral groups. My DCC school has 2, with one of them really struggling to find members (despite having an excellent teacher). My belief is that a 'W' school simply has more families who value the arts/ make time for the arts/ can afford private instruction in the arts (at least, choral arts). Whitman even has a scholarship fund for its singers who can't afford private voice lessons.

Here is the link to the Whitman Tux with Tails: https://www.uniformalwearhouse.com/mens_comfort_poly_tailcoat_package

I suspect this too as the majority of the students our child goes to orchestra with are from W schools and its a huge financial and time commitment between the required weekly private lessons and orchestra. No idea how much we really spend but its probably thousands.

Enter Woodward with performing arts magnet. Those types of high-end programs should be available to everyone in the county.

I'm really not clear why they want admissions to these programs to resemble the hunger games. Any kid who is interested and can handle the work should have the opportunity. I know it's a radical idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a DCC high school but is involved in a youth group with friends who go to "W" schools and other schools in wealthier neighborhoods. She is constantly saying things like "yeah, they have better uniforms because they go to a rich school," "they don't have bugs because they go to a rich school" etc. She loves her high school, but thinks that it is under-resourced in every way and that it is unfair that her friends schools have more because they're rich.

I don't really know any different - I don't have friends in that area and our kids have always been in DCC schools. My younger DC is bussed to a special needs program in a wealthier community but I don't see much difference but we aren't really involved in that community. Of course I have read and heard about the boundary issues, the racial disparities, etc. BUT, I don't feel like I can have an educated conversation with my kid or adults about the actual fiscal reality. Does MCPS actually provide more funding to certain schools? Is it taxes? Is it parent contributions to things like booster club that results in the sports and arts programs more wealthy and therefore better resourced? I know that the PTSA's can contribute to those programs, but not the actual academic programs (teacher salaries, school buildings and facilities, etc.), correct?

Is it all of the above?

I'm not trying to stir up debate, I just want to know the actual facts so that I can not only spew ideology but actually have an educated conversation. Of course DCUM will not be my only source for facts, but I am sure some will weigh in with information that will get me started.

Sorry but any post that brings up something controversial like this and then says sorry I don't mean to stir up debate will have that exact effect so I will always wonder if that sentiment is genuine.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Staff salaries are the same from school to school. Facilities are obviously in a wide range of conditions across the county, and there are examples of run-down schools in wealthier areas and brand-new schools in less wealthy areas, and vice versa.

Sadly the academic programs in these schools widely differ as well which is what concerns to most parents.

One example of differing academics involves foreign language. My child at an ECC high school has a choice of taking Spanish and French, while some W schools offer half of dozen langauges, ranging from Spanish, French, Italian, Chinese, Latin, Farsi, Japanese, to American Sign Language.

I've seen comments on this forum saying there just isn't enough interest in the ECC and DCC to have a lot of languages, but I do wish that students at all schools had the opportunity to take any of the languages offered in MCPS, possibly through some sort of centralized program. This is true of some AP courses, as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Achievement and intelligence are highly genetic, and genes aren’t distributed equitably.

Citation needed. Recent studies suggest the genetic component has been significantly overestimated. Socio-environmental factors account for a lot of variance in educational attainment (and possibly intelligence as it is typically measured). See this write-up on a recent study for example: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-05-international-siblings-nature-genetics-disease.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Staff salaries are the same from school to school. Facilities are obviously in a wide range of conditions across the county, and there are examples of run-down schools in wealthier areas and brand-new schools in less wealthy areas, and vice versa.

Sadly the academic programs in these schools widely differ as well which is what concerns to most parents.

One example of differing academics involves foreign language. My child at an ECC high school has a choice of taking Spanish and French, while some W schools offer half of dozen langauges, ranging from Spanish, French, Italian, Chinese, Latin, Farsi, Japanese, to American Sign Language.

I've seen comments on this forum saying there just isn't enough interest in the ECC and DCC to have a lot of languages, but I do wish that students at all schools had the opportunity to take any of the languages offered in MCPS, possibly through some sort of centralized program. This is true of some AP courses, as well.

What is ECC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

It is not just a few kids — you clearly have no idea about this school. It was overwhelmingly impressive. The school has had an incredible rise in the US News rankings (this would be test scores and graduation rates) and has some of the happiest teachers in MCPS, not like other schools where they are leaving in droves. Sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but it has been an incredible surprise from day one and the matriculation list was truly amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, some wealthier PTA’s give hundreds of dollars to teachers to purchase supplies, have grants for larger purchases, support teachers with food, messages, awards etc. The boosters make sure the sports teams and music programs have the best equipment and uniforms. I don’t think there is much difference in teaching overall, but anything outside of the classroom has a big difference between wealthy and poor schools. Over time staff end up gravitating to schools easier to commute to more than anything else. Poorer neighborhoods don’t have a lot of good overall housing/location for teachers. If a poor school is getting more money it is going to special programs and staffing that high most achieving students are not part of.

At our elementary the PTA built a planetarium and the parents run a space curriculum because the teachers by policy can't support it. It culminates at a space night where various physics and space clubs from the feeder middle and high schools come in set up while various space professionals come in and give presentations serviced by a line of food trucks. I was blown away by how cool it was for my kids and while definitely a perk that requires money many schools have unique charms like pools or theater programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

The AP participation rate at Wheaton High School is 63%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

It is not just a few kids — you clearly have no idea about this school. It was overwhelmingly impressive. The school has had an incredible rise in the US News rankings (this would be test scores and graduation rates) and has some of the happiest teachers in MCPS, not like other schools where they are leaving in droves. Sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but it has been an incredible surprise from day one and the matriculation list was truly amazing.

Its easy to rise when you are at the bottom of the county

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

It is not just a few kids — you clearly have no idea about this school. It was overwhelmingly impressive. The school has had an incredible rise in the US News rankings (this would be test scores and graduation rates) and has some of the happiest teachers in MCPS, not like other schools where they are leaving in droves. Sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but it has been an incredible surprise from day one and the matriculation list was truly amazing.

Its easy to rise when you are at the bottom of the county

You sound really insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

It is not just a few kids — you clearly have no idea about this school. It was overwhelmingly impressive. The school has had an incredible rise in the US News rankings (this would be test scores and graduation rates) and has some of the happiest teachers in MCPS, not like other schools where they are leaving in droves. Sorry to sound like a cheerleader, but it has been an incredible surprise from day one and the matriculation list was truly amazing.

Its easy to rise when you are at the bottom of the county

You sound really insecure.

They feel threatened by schools that are improving. It surfaces the shift that has been happening for decades. The truth is these programs like Wheaton Engineering are among the best the county has to offer and any non-magnet high school isn't a close second.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Staff salaries are the same from school to school. Facilities are obviously in a wide range of conditions across the county, and there are examples of run-down schools in wealthier areas and brand-new schools in less wealthy areas, and vice versa.

Sadly the academic programs in these schools widely differ as well which is what concerns to most parents.

One example of differing academics involves foreign language. My child at an ECC high school has a choice of taking Spanish and French, while some W schools offer half of dozen langauges, ranging from Spanish, French, Italian, Chinese, Latin, Farsi, Japanese, to American Sign Language.

I've seen comments on this forum saying there just isn't enough interest in the ECC and DCC to have a lot of languages, but I do wish that students at all schools had the opportunity to take any of the languages offered in MCPS, possibly through some sort of centralized program. This is true of some AP courses, as well.

What is ECC?

Likely a typo or auto-correct but guessing they meant DCC.

[Anonymous]

Take a ride by Wheaton. DS has soccer over there. You will be impressed with the campus, I assure you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:One more domain of inequity is awareness of and access to services for various health needs (disruptive behavior disorders, vision/hearing problems, etc.), especially early in childhood. Such disparities are likely to have impact at both the individual and classroom level.

Some of these things are parenting responsibilities, not MCPS. Health needs are not MCPS concern, they are parents.

And yet our gov't, from the top down, expects schools to take care of all sorts of things for kids beyond just educating them.

Time to try being a parent. No, parents like you expect it, not the government. I want the school to tell me my child is having an issue and I'll take them for a hearing/vision test.

No, parents like me - with a special needs child (now a young adult) - have been covering tens of thousands of dollars in services that insurance doesn't cover for a couple decades now, and likely will for the rest of my life.

Many parents are not able to provide that level of support. To help their kids, our country provides a lot of childhood services - primarily health and nutrition - through schools. Don't like it? Find a different country.