What are the real facts about MCPS inequities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One more domain of inequity is awareness of and access to services for various health needs (disruptive behavior disorders, vision/hearing problems, etc.), especially early in childhood. Such disparities are likely to have impact at both the individual and classroom level.

Some of these things are parenting responsibilities, not MCPS. Health needs are not MCPS concern, they are parents.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Make no mistake, MCPS talks a big game about equity but they cave a lot to the squeakiest wheels which are wealthy white parents.

This is hysterical [NOT], as my children are at a W, and we get ignored by MCPS and the BOE. They cave to everything for TP/SS. If we want something done, we have to fund it ourselves, which are fortunate to be able to do. But it has nothing to do with MCPS caving to us, and everything to do with parents spending money on things that should have been provided.

Please describe the things that MCPS should have provided, that the parents provided instead.

I'd like to see the response to this as well. I was PTA president at a non-W/ non-Title I school and there were quite a few things that the county was supposed to provide, and would have provided, had the principal been willing to push hard enough. But MCPS makes it so hard to get certain materials and services that it's easier to just have the PTA/parents fund it so they can get it done quicker and circumvent the system. I'm not saying this is always the case but I saw it happen over and over again at my kids' school. We had a good fundraising program in place so the money wasn't an issue but it's hard to convince the school administration to fight with the central office when the PTA is willing/able to be an ATM.

Okay. Can you describe the items or services that MCPS should have provided to your school, that the PTA did instead?

Paper towels, disinfecting wipes, landscaping supplies/mulch/groundskeeping labor. Off the top of my head.

My kid is at a FOCUS school in the DCC and the PTA also has to dredge up money for these things. As well as playground balls and after school programs and all sorts of other things that you probably take for granted will be paid for by your PTA or otherwise provided.

MCPS is required to provide certain things to the schools. Unfortunately, "extra" classroom supplies are often not provided and teachers go into their own pockets if the PTA doesn't step in. Ditto some of the other things they see as "extra." Now, this is a problem! But these are not things-- again, unfortunately-- that they are required to provide, and it is not an issue that disproportionately affects wealthier schools.

What is not happening (for the most part) is that things MCPS is actually required to provide are being provided to poorer schools and not wealthier ones, except where the requirements for different schools differ based on county policy for things like FARMS rates (e.g., more teachers to keep smaller class sizes).

So poor schools don't get art teachers for free from MCPS, but rich schools have to raise money to pay an art teacher. Poor schools don't get beautiful new desks every 3 years, but rich schools have to raise money for them.

The difference is that, for the things MCPS doesn't have to provide, the poor schools mostly go without. The rich schools have them, but have to pay for them out of pocket.

For the things MCPS does have to provide to all schools, the rich schools are more likely to receive them in a timely manner than the poor schools IME, because of the parents' greater political and economic influence.

For things MCPS has to provide specifically to poor schools, sure, poor schools are more likely to have them. Oh, well.

Your post makes zero sense. PTA's cannot pay for teacher salaries at any school in MCPS. They can pay for after school activities but all schools can offer that. No one needs new desks every three years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as athletics at a W school, I am often in sticker shock as to what parents are expected to pay so our child can participate on a team and the range of expense per sport. Cheer was about $500 with uniforms, bows, shoes, etc. Football was $350 but that included pregame meals but didn’t include equipment costs that were an additional $200. Banquet tickets were always extra and were usually $100 per parent.

We do have a small portion of section 8 families in our school, so I often wonder if they feel discouraged to participate because of the high cost to participate.

My DC was in the selective All-County Chorus. Students were instructed to wear their choral "uniforms" from their home school. I have to admit - I was impressed that the male Whitman singers wore tails! I don't begrudge them this, but I am sure that they are expensive and not economically accessible to students from many other MCPS schools. I loved hearing our students sing together, however.

In the choral arts, I did notice a difference in the choral arts. I believe that Whitman has 5 different choral groups. My DCC school has 2, with one of them really struggling to find members (despite having an excellent teacher). My belief is that a 'W' school simply has more families who value the arts/ make time for the arts/ can afford private instruction in the arts (at least, choral arts). Whitman even has a scholarship fund for its singers who can't afford private voice lessons.

Here is the link to the Whitman Tux with Tails: https://www.uniformalwearhouse.com/mens_comfort_poly_tailcoat_package

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

Wheaton has a new building, two excellent STEM magnets, and an AP participation rate much higher than 2%.

Yes. For Wheaton's class of '21, 61% took at least one AP exam.

Wheaton also had only 84.4% graduation rate and 10.3% dropout. And yes, only 63.2% met Maryland College entrance requirements. (and it's 76.6% FARMS, not 50%).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04782.pdf

Blair has similar stats. 62.9% college ready, 86.1% graduation rate, and an 8.8% dropout rate.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf

I would cite both schools as examples of what happens when you have an overachiever group or "haves" mixed in with kids that don't see a future in learning Calculus and the have not's. Having brainiac magnet kids doesn't help the 40% aren't even going to make it into college, nor did it help the 10% that check out of school altogether.

This is where MCPS fails the kids. They push the only-college mantra versus trade programs (technical schools, trade schools, small business programs, etc.) for that 40% so at least a kid can make a living. If State social programs had kicked in back in Elementary School, maybe the kids would have a chance, but by Middle School it's a declining academic path for many of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as athletics at a W school, I am often in sticker shock as to what parents are expected to pay so our child can participate on a team and the range of expense per sport. Cheer was about $500 with uniforms, bows, shoes, etc. Football was $350 but that included pregame meals but didn’t include equipment costs that were an additional $200. Banquet tickets were always extra and were usually $100 per parent.

We do have a small portion of section 8 families in our school, so I often wonder if they feel discouraged to participate because of the high cost to participate.

My DC was in the selective All-County Chorus. Students were instructed to wear their choral "uniforms" from their home school. I have to admit - I was impressed that the male Whitman singers wore tails! I don't begrudge them this, but I am sure that they are expensive and not economically accessible to students from many other MCPS schools. I loved hearing our students sing together, however.

In the choral arts, I did notice a difference in the choral arts. I believe that Whitman has 5 different choral groups. My DCC school has 2, with one of them really struggling to find members (despite having an excellent teacher). My belief is that a 'W' school simply has more families who value the arts/ make time for the arts/ can afford private instruction in the arts (at least, choral arts). Whitman even has a scholarship fund for its singers who can't afford private voice lessons.

Here is the link to the Whitman Tux with Tails: https://www.uniformalwearhouse.com/mens_comfort_poly_tailcoat_package

I suspect this too as the majority of the students our child goes to orchestra with are from W schools and its a huge financial and time commitment between the required weekly private lessons and orchestra. No idea how much we really spend but its probably thousands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

Wheaton has a new building, two excellent STEM magnets, and an AP participation rate much higher than 2%.

Yes. For Wheaton's class of '21, 61% took at least one AP exam.

Wheaton also had only 84.4% graduation rate and 10.3% dropout. And yes, only 63.2% met Maryland College entrance requirements. (and it's 76.6% FARMS, not 50%).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04782.pdf

Blair has similar stats. 62.9% college ready, 86.1% graduation rate, and an 8.8% dropout rate.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf

I would cite both schools as examples of what happens when you have an overachiever group or "haves" mixed in with kids that don't see a future in learning Calculus and the have not's. Having brainiac magnet kids doesn't help the 40% aren't even going to make it into college, nor did it help the 10% that check out of school altogether.

This is where MCPS fails the kids. They push the only-college mantra versus trade programs (technical schools, trade schools, small business programs, etc.) for that 40% so at least a kid can make a living. If State social programs had kicked in back in Elementary School, maybe the kids would have a chance, but by Middle School it's a declining academic path for many of them.

MCPS has multiple trade programs. Its up to the parents to sign up their kids. They have very good programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more domain of inequity is awareness of and access to services for various health needs (disruptive behavior disorders, vision/hearing problems, etc.), especially early in childhood. Such disparities are likely to have impact at both the individual and classroom level.

Some of these things are parenting responsibilities, not MCPS. Health needs are not MCPS concern, they are parents.

And yet our gov't, from the top down, expects schools to take care of all sorts of things for kids beyond just educating them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

Wheaton has a new building, two excellent STEM magnets, and an AP participation rate much higher than 2%.

Yes. For Wheaton's class of '21, 61% took at least one AP exam.

Wheaton also had only 84.4% graduation rate and 10.3% dropout. And yes, only 63.2% met Maryland College entrance requirements. (and it's 76.6% FARMS, not 50%).

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04782.pdf

Blair has similar stats. 62.9% college ready, 86.1% graduation rate, and an 8.8% dropout rate.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf

I would cite both schools as examples of what happens when you have an overachiever group or "haves" mixed in with kids that don't see a future in learning Calculus and the have not's. Having brainiac magnet kids doesn't help the 40% aren't even going to make it into college, nor did it help the 10% that check out of school altogether.

This is where MCPS fails the kids. They push the only-college mantra versus trade programs (technical schools, trade schools, small business programs, etc.) for that 40% so at least a kid can make a living. If State social programs had kicked in back in Elementary School, maybe the kids would have a chance, but by Middle School it's a declining academic path for many of them.

False. The document you linked to shows its FARMS rate at 48%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more domain of inequity is awareness of and access to services for various health needs (disruptive behavior disorders, vision/hearing problems, etc.), especially early in childhood. Such disparities are likely to have impact at both the individual and classroom level.

Some of these things are parenting responsibilities, not MCPS. Health needs are not MCPS concern, they are parents.

And yet our gov't, from the top down, expects schools to take care of all sorts of things for kids beyond just educating them.

Time to try being a parent. No, parents like you expect it, not the government. I want the school to tell me my child is having an issue and I'll take them for a hearing/vision test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more domain of inequity is awareness of and access to services for various health needs (disruptive behavior disorders, vision/hearing problems, etc.), especially early in childhood. Such disparities are likely to have impact at both the individual and classroom level.

Some of these things are parenting responsibilities, not MCPS. Health needs are not MCPS concern, they are parents.

Never said it was MCPS's responsibility, only listed a source of disparity. But dismissing them as parenting responsibilities is weak. There's plenty of data on how parental education and income impacts awareness and access to interventions. Anecdotally, I've seen MD and PhD colleagues navigate some of these issues with their preschool/kindergarten kids - pushing back on diagnoses, getting second opinions, temporarily moving their kids to smaller private programs, etc. I don't see how all parents can be expected to respond at that level. This is an area where the county or state will need to step in.

[Anonymous]

Achievement and intelligence are highly genetic, and genes aren’t distributed equitably.

[Anonymous]

There are private organizations that pay/paid to improve sports fields at some high schools. For example, baseball at Kennedy HS (I think). Turf at Gaithersburg etc. these donations are enormously expensive and are a huge benefit to the schools as well as the community. Much more so than any booster club.

There is a difference in activity levels of the PTAs, boosters etc. maybe if each school has a sister school to collaborate with. The ptas I’ve seen are so incredibly organized and well-run with manuals prepared to share with new members coming in. Or would that just offend? The county level pta has had its share of issues, they could do better.

[Anonymous]

There are supposed to be really nice wellness facilities at Kennedy as well. They don’t have those at every school, arguably they could all use them. As at least one PP mentioned, Wheaton HS is incredibly impressive. Take a ride over and take a look at what they’ve done there with the campus, fields, engineering and trade. Seriously the planners need to win an award for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as athletics at a W school, I am often in sticker shock as to what parents are expected to pay so our child can participate on a team and the range of expense per sport. Cheer was about $500 with uniforms, bows, shoes, etc. Football was $350 but that included pregame meals but didn’t include equipment costs that were an additional $200. Banquet tickets were always extra and were usually $100 per parent.

We do have a small portion of section 8 families in our school, so I often wonder if they feel discouraged to participate because of the high cost to participate.

My DC was in the selective All-County Chorus. Students were instructed to wear their choral "uniforms" from their home school. I have to admit - I was impressed that the male Whitman singers wore tails! I don't begrudge them this, but I am sure that they are expensive and not economically accessible to students from many other MCPS schools. I loved hearing our students sing together, however.

In the choral arts, I did notice a difference in the choral arts. I believe that Whitman has 5 different choral groups. My DCC school has 2, with one of them really struggling to find members (despite having an excellent teacher). My belief is that a 'W' school simply has more families who value the arts/ make time for the arts/ can afford private instruction in the arts (at least, choral arts). Whitman even has a scholarship fund for its singers who can't afford private voice lessons.

Here is the link to the Whitman Tux with Tails: https://www.uniformalwearhouse.com/mens_comfort_poly_tailcoat_package

I suspect this too as the majority of the students our child goes to orchestra with are from W schools and its a huge financial and time commitment between the required weekly private lessons and orchestra. No idea how much we really spend but its probably thousands.

Enter Woodward with performing arts magnet. Those types of high-end programs should be available to everyone in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are supposed to be really nice wellness facilities at Kennedy as well. They don’t have those at every school, arguably they could all use them. As at least one PP mentioned, Wheaton HS is incredibly impressive. Take a ride over and take a look at what they’ve done there with the campus, fields, engineering and trade. Seriously the planners need to win an award for that.

I believe they recently announced new funding for wellness centers at all high schools that don't have one already.