Things are not harder - it’s the same as it always was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference is that people who feel they are entitled to those spots for their kids after paying for tutoring/SAT prep/expensive ECs are being disappointed that they are not getting in everywhere as they assumed they would.

People who make a reasonable list focused on fit, including some safeties they really like are doing fine.

Ahh - the everyone is taking expensive prep so that is why they get a spot. No. Find another story line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is harder today than it used to be before the common app. That said, grade inflation makes it appear tougher than it really is. The reality is that many school districts graduate 20-50 percent of their classes with 3.9/4.0 unweighted. The issue is the school has to send in a profile that shows what percentage of the class had similar grades. Kids are not smarter or harder working today than they used to be. Top grades are easier to get. If your child goes to a school that graduates only 4-7 percent of its class with uw 4.0, that shows a more rigorous standard for grading. Colleges know if a 4.0 uw gpa is a dime a dozen.

If child’s school has a record of grade inflation, it is then necessary to do 4-5 years of every core subject taking the most rigorous courses offered to stand out. Electives can’t be fluff and 3 years of any core subject no longer suffices to stand out. It has to be 4 or more.

I think the schools also look to see where you came from in the sense that if you are from an affluent area, born on third base, you need to prove you are willing to work hard and just getting As in hard classes isn’t enough. Does the student do that and have a job and play sports/instrument and volunteer?

Kids coming from more challenging circumstances have to work and do well in school with far fewer supports. When they do well, it shows willingness to work hard through the circumstances. I am glad the schools are beginning to see the value in these kids.

So tired of hearing grade inflation! My DC at a magnet school has no grade inflation. Instead, grade deflation, and every excuses the teachers can use not to give an A. So this pandemic really hurt kids who are not good at online classes, and guess what, not all smart kids are good at online, but all diligent kids are. So, are the diligent ones more worthy of top schools? I guess. Maybe they are more desirable because those tend to be students who work hard and complain less.

The problem is that there are both types of schools, schools that saw previously-uncharacteristic inflation of grades, and ones that saw more deflation of grades. In theory, this should be noted by admissions officers looking at the high schools' School Profile documents if the document includes a rough breakdown of GPAs by quartile or decile. There is an unfortunate, constant sense that grades are treated as standardized even though everyone agrees they are not. And on top of all that variation, virtual learning was a significantly negative experience for some subset of kids and did affect grades. Nothing in the admission process seems to account for that aspect.

Pre-covid, scores were one way to help determine reaches, matches, and safeties. That approach is not so useful anymore.

[Anonymous]

Check SCHEV

WM last year: median GPA 4.3/ 75% ACT 34
Ten years ago: 4.1/32

UVA: was 4.24/ 32 ten years
Now: 4.39/34

To get around the SAT argument.

Yes. In-state is getting harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is missing from these posts is that there was significant grade inflation for the class of 2022 with their junior year online. Junior year is where the rubber meets the road and kids can do well in 5-6 APs or they don't. If everyone did well there is nothing to distinguish someone who got a 4.0 because of online and cheating vs. hard work and intelligence. Now put all these kids with similar GPAs together, with or without tests, and the highest applicant numbers in history and this is what happens. I hope it works itself out for next year!

YES!

I don't even have a dog in this fight but am a teacher. Let's say in a normal year 10% of kids got straight As. Last year it was like 70% at our school. We were told to be super lenient. The district I teach in (DCPS) did not even give out grades lower than a B. So kids who did the work (in any way, shape or form) got As. The rest (who did nothing) got Bs.
Extrapolate this to an entire district of kids and you have a lot of A students. Thousands.

I wonder if universities looked more closely at AP scores if students submitted them. If you got an A in an AP course but a 2 on related the AP exam, maybe that said something?

DP: Normally, I would say yes, but this year's class only reports last two years of AP scores by admission time, and many schools didn't get through the AP material last year (not the kid's fault), so you can get an A on the material covered in class, but bomb the stuff your teacher didn't get to, and you had to self-study. Also, the AP testing format was on line for some but not others, and rather a mess. Not as useful as it usually is, and not apples to apples across schools for this class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High stats kids are getting rejected from VT and UVA, OP. Probably W&M, too. Results just aren’t out yet.

I don't know a single high stats kid that has gotten rejected from VT. They are waitlisted because VT thinks they are using it as a safety. If they stay on the waitlist they will get in because VT keeps space on the waitlist for this.

VT puts everyone on the waitlist because they are just terrible at predicting yield. Like, worst in the nation bad. Yes, it could be like last year where a bunch of kids were admitted from the WL. Or, it could be like a few years ago where they massively overenrolled and the entire WL was shut out. They never have a normal WL year. Either they are taking hundreds of kids. Or none. Add to That the fact that they are aiming for 40% disadvantaged and using the common app for the first time this year. You are giving them way to much credit if you think they are using the WL straigically, vs as a holding pen because their yield predictions suck. No one can tell you how their waitlist will go. Even they have no clue.

I do know that DD had a bunch of kids deferred in EA and they were denied or WL in RD. As in, most of he robotics team. None got in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is missing from these posts is that there was significant grade inflation for the class of 2022 with their junior year online. Junior year is where the rubber meets the road and kids can do well in 5-6 APs or they don't. If everyone did well there is nothing to distinguish someone who got a 4.0 because of online and cheating vs. hard work and intelligence. Now put all these kids with similar GPAs together, with or without tests, and the highest applicant numbers in history and this is what happens. I hope it works itself out for next year!

YES!

I don't even have a dog in this fight but am a teacher. Let's say in a normal year 10% of kids got straight As. Last year it was like 70% at our school. We were told to be super lenient. The district I teach in (DCPS) did not even give out grades lower than a B. So kids who did the work (in any way, shape or form) got As. The rest (who did nothing) got Bs.
Extrapolate this to an entire district of kids and you have a lot of A students. Thousands.

I wonder if universities looked more closely at AP scores if students submitted them. If you got an A in an AP course but a 2 on related the AP exam, maybe that said something?

DD’s sophomore grades were a mess for COVID shutdown reasons (and problems o her own making, like not getting work in). Junior year, As and a B. But, she had 3 5s and 1 3 on her APs. She definately sent those in to validate her junior grades. The A in English looks a lot better with a 5 on AP Lang.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Disagree with OP.

At our school, the high performing kids are getting shut out at Ivys, NESCAC and other top tier private schools. They are lucky to get into flagships and "second tier" SLACs.

That is pushing the next rung of kids "down" and so on.

There are simply too many top GPA, top SAT/ACT high EC kids applying to the same 50-75 schools.

The numbers bare this out. 14,000 kids applying to Amherst for the same 400 seats. 85,000 kids applying to Michigan for the same 8000 seats. If you are out of state wanting to go to Michigan, the percentage is about the same as many of the very elite schools.

10 years ago, Michigan was a 30% school OOS. 25 years ago, it was a 50% school OOS.

+10. No more foreign students!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With over 25% more students graduating from US high schools than in the year 2000 and hundreds of thousands more international students applying than back then, it is IMPOSSIBLE that things are the same as they always were. This explains the US part of it well....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/

This.

There consistently have been more kids who go to college each year since the 1970s. A large segment of that growth was from young women. It isn't possible for it to be the same because the number of applicants grew exponentially but spaces in school grew much more slowly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference is that people who feel they are entitled to those spots for their kids after paying for tutoring/SAT prep/expensive ECs are being disappointed that they are not getting in everywhere as they assumed they would.

People who make a reasonable list focused on fit, including some safeties they really like are doing fine.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High stats kids are getting rejected from VT and UVA, OP. Probably W&M, too. Results just aren’t out yet.

I don't know a single high stats kid that has gotten rejected from VT. They are waitlisted because VT thinks they are using it as a safety. If they stay on the waitlist they will get in because VT keeps space on the waitlist for this.

VT puts everyone on the waitlist because they are just terrible at predicting yield. Like, worst in the nation bad. Yes, it could be like last year where a bunch of kids were admitted from the WL. Or, it could be like a few years ago where they massively overenrolled and the entire WL was shut out. They never have a normal WL year. Either they are taking hundreds of kids. Or none. Add to That the fact that they are aiming for 40% disadvantaged and using the common app for the first time this year. You are giving them way to much credit if you think they are using the WL straigically, vs as a holding pen because their yield predictions suck. No one can tell you how their waitlist will go. Even they have no clue.

I do know that DD had a bunch of kids deferred in EA and they were denied or WL in RD. As in, most of he robotics team. None got in.

This is not VTs first year on the Common App, they were on it last year. It was, however, JMUs first year on Common App and they seem to be waitlisting more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel so bad for high stats kids in CA - applying to UC schools. 2022 is a nightmare for high stat kids in CA. UC only looks at grade 10 and 11 grade (no SAT). Most kids get pass/fail grade in public school in Grade 10. Grade 11 is easy grading - students who put in some efforts get A. Kids may take a bunch of AP classes with A's but do not take the test. UC doesn't look at AP exams. It is a lottery in CA this year. Many of my DD friends are rejected or waitlisted at UC. They came from tough private high school. Get accepted EA into Umich, Prudue, Georiga Tech computer science or engineering but rejected from all the UCs.

I’m in CA. My kid’s school (private) had real classes, real tests and real grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference is that people who feel they are entitled to those spots for their kids after paying for tutoring/SAT prep/expensive ECs are being disappointed that they are not getting in everywhere as they assumed they would.

People who make a reasonable list focused on fit, including some safeties they really like are doing fine.

Ahh - the everyone is taking expensive prep so that is why they get a spot. No. Find another story line.

No, everyone who is taking expensive prep thinks that they deserve a spot so they complain loudly when reality does not meet their inflated expectations.

[Anonymous]

This whole string is making me nervous… 4.8 wgpa, 1560 SAT ,captain of a varsity sport , 500+ hours ssl and summer job. Will she get into unc chapel hill? Emory? Duke?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More unqualified kids applying doesn’t make the school actually harder for qualified kids to obtain admissions. I agree with the original poster.

Oh stop. The bottom line is that schools are looking past stats to build Noah’s Ark so they can highlight it in their glossies. Test optional allows schools to dive down into lesser qualified applicants so the Ark can be full.

Yes, it’s all about allowing colleges to engage in social engineering and nothing having to do everything but gpa or traditional testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High stats kids are getting rejected from VT and UVA, OP. Probably W&M, too. Results just aren’t out yet.

I don't know a single high stats kid that has gotten rejected from VT. They are waitlisted because VT thinks they are using it as a safety. If they stay on the waitlist they will get in because VT keeps space on the waitlist for this.

VT puts everyone on the waitlist because they are just terrible at predicting yield. Like, worst in the nation bad. Yes, it could be like last year where a bunch of kids were admitted from the WL. Or, it could be like a few years ago where they massively overenrolled and the entire WL was shut out. They never have a normal WL year. Either they are taking hundreds of kids. Or none. Add to That the fact that they are aiming for 40% disadvantaged and using the common app for the first time this year. You are giving them way to much credit if you think they are using the WL straigically, vs as a holding pen because their yield predictions suck. No one can tell you how their waitlist will go. Even they have no clue.

I do know that DD had a bunch of kids deferred in EA and they were denied or WL in RD. As in, most of he robotics team. None got in.

This is not VTs first year on the Common App, they were on it last year. It was, however, JMUs first year on Common App and they seem to be waitlisting more.

2nd year on CA then. I have a 2020 grad and they were coalition only then