Things are not harder - it’s the same as it always was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is missing from these posts is that there was significant grade inflation for the class of 2022 with their junior year online. Junior year is where the rubber meets the road and kids can do well in 5-6 APs or they don't. If everyone did well there is nothing to distinguish someone who got a 4.0 because of online and cheating vs. hard work and intelligence. Now put all these kids with similar GPAs together, with or without tests, and the highest applicant numbers in history and this is what happens. I hope it works itself out for next year!

YES!

I don't even have a dog in this fight but am a teacher. Let's say in a normal year 10% of kids got straight As. Last year it was like 70% at our school. We were told to be super lenient. The district I teach in (DCPS) did not even give out grades lower than a B. So kids who did the work (in any way, shape or form) got As. The rest (who did nothing) got Bs.
Extrapolate this to an entire district of kids and you have a lot of A students. Thousands.

I wonder if universities looked more closely at AP scores if students submitted them. If you got an A in an AP course but a 2 on related the AP exam, maybe that said something?

Having a kid in process, I think you should have to submit AP scores if you take AP classes. Only feels fair to get credit for taking a rigorous class you should have to do well on the exam.

A lot of (Most?) high schools only fully fund AP exams for kids who qualify for free meals. All the other kids have to pay $89+ per exam. So I’m not on board with requiring the exams unless they’re free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check SCHEV

WM last year: median GPA 4.3/ 75% ACT 34
Ten years ago: 4.1/32

UVA: was 4.24/ 32 ten years
Now: 4.39/34

To get around the SAT argument.

Yes. In-state is getting harder.

Average high school GPAs have been going up. Rampant grade inflation.

Source?

You can look at the sources in this article. Average high school GPA was 2.68 in 1990, rising to 3.38 in 2016. I believe it has continued to rise since then. Grade inflation is most significant in more affluent areas. Most common grade in high school is now an A.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/08/24/class-grade-inflation-high-school-teacher/8185250002/

I take issue with this claim. The average SAT scores for the entire graduating classes at schools like Langley & Whitman are in the 1280+ range (80th percentile nationally). Of course those high schools are going to have pretty high average GPAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check SCHEV

WM last year: median GPA 4.3/ 75% ACT 34
Ten years ago: 4.1/32

UVA: was 4.24/ 32 ten years
Now: 4.39/34

To get around the SAT argument.

Yes. In-state is getting harder.

Average high school GPAs have been going up. Rampant grade inflation.

Source?

You can look at the sources in this article. Average high school GPA was 2.68 in 1990, rising to 3.38 in 2016. I believe it has continued to rise since then. Grade inflation is most significant in more affluent areas. Most common grade in high school is now an A.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/08/24/class-grade-inflation-high-school-teacher/8185250002/

I take issue with this claim. The average SAT scores for the entire graduating classes at schools like Langley & Whitman are in the 1280+ range (80th percentile nationally). Of course those high schools are going to have pretty high average GPAs.

Statistical analysis shows that it is correct. Grade inflation is most significant at more affluent schools. Grade inflation simply means average grades are rising over time.

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/research/grade-inflation-high-schools-2005-2016

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check SCHEV

WM last year: median GPA 4.3/ 75% ACT 34
Ten years ago: 4.1/32

UVA: was 4.24/ 32 ten years
Now: 4.39/34

To get around the SAT argument.

Yes. In-state is getting harder.

Average high school GPAs have been going up. Rampant grade inflation.

Source?

You can look at the sources in this article. Average high school GPA was 2.68 in 1990, rising to 3.38 in 2016. I believe it has continued to rise since then. Grade inflation is most significant in more affluent areas. Most common grade in high school is now an A.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/08/24/class-grade-inflation-high-school-teacher/8185250002/

I take issue with this claim. The average SAT scores for the entire graduating classes at schools like Langley & Whitman are in the 1280+ range (80th percentile nationally). Of course those high schools are going to have pretty high average GPAs.

Statistical analysis shows that it is correct. Grade inflation is most significant at more affluent schools. Grade inflation simply means average grades are rising over time.

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/research/grade-inflation-high-schools-2005-2016

Just to clarify, more affluent school districts have higher average GPAs than less affluent school districts, AND the average GPAs at the more affluent school districts have been rising more over time than at less affluent school districts.

[Anonymous]

My mid tier MCPS graduating class in late 80’s sent 4 to Brown, 2 UPenn, one each to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell and 5 to Georgetown (including myself). No way does that happen today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mid tier MCPS graduating class in late 80’s sent 4 to Brown, 2 UPenn, one each to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell and 5 to Georgetown (including myself). No way does that happen today.

Help me understand please.

So it is "harder" for kids who went to your HS in the 80s.

Care to explain why that is?

Please also explain why that matters.

And lastly, please explain how if those colleges admit the same number of students, and there is a similar number of students in the whole college cohort, equates "harder" overall.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

[Anonymous]

My point is that 35 years ago, you study hard get good but not perfect grades, high (but not that high) test scores and have a few extracurricular activities and you had excellent chance at Ivy and slam dunk at top20. There literally wasn’t that much competition. That is not the case today. I am refuting OP’s claim that it is the same landscape today as it has always been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My point is that 35 years ago, you study hard get good but not perfect grades, high (but not that high) test scores and have a few extracurricular activities and you had excellent chance at Ivy and slam dunk at top20. There literally wasn’t that much competition. That is not the case today. I am refuting OP’s claim that it is the same landscape today as it has always been.

There was no competition from women, International students and immigrant offspring. It was a slam dunk for White males and some females. The secret is out now and everyone wants a pie of America higher ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mid tier MCPS graduating class in late 80’s sent 4 to Brown, 2 UPenn, one each to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell and 5 to Georgetown (including myself). No way does that happen today.

Help me understand please.

So it is "harder" for kids who went to your HS in the 80s.

Care to explain why that is?

Please also explain why that matters.

And lastly, please explain how if those colleges admit the same number of students, and there is a similar number of students in the whole college cohort, equates "harder" overall.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

DP

If in the 80’s a college received 15000 applications for 5000 spots and today it receives 50000 applications for the same number of spots, how could that not be harder to get in? Even if those numbers don’t represent all competitive students, there’s still going to be a rise in the number of competitive students.

It’s math. 1/3 chance vs 1/10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mid tier MCPS graduating class in late 80’s sent 4 to Brown, 2 UPenn, one each to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell and 5 to Georgetown (including myself). No way does that happen today.

Help me understand please.

So it is "harder" for kids who went to your HS in the 80s.

Care to explain why that is?

Please also explain why that matters.

And lastly, please explain how if those colleges admit the same number of students, and there is a similar number of students in the whole college cohort, equates "harder" overall.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

DP

If in the 80’s a college received 15000 applications for 5000 spots and today it receives 50000 applications for the same number of spots, how could that not be harder to get in? Even if those numbers don’t represent all competitive students, there’s still going to be a rise in the number of competitive students.

It’s math. 1/3 chance vs 1/10.

You use the term “spots.” Colleges do not have 100% yield. Kids apply to tons of colleges today and colleges accept more kids than their “spots.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mid tier MCPS graduating class in late 80’s sent 4 to Brown, 2 UPenn, one each to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell and 5 to Georgetown (including myself). No way does that happen today.

Help me understand please.

So it is "harder" for kids who went to your HS in the 80s.

Care to explain why that is?

Please also explain why that matters.

And lastly, please explain how if those colleges admit the same number of students, and there is a similar number of students in the whole college cohort, equates "harder" overall.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

DP

If in the 80’s a college received 15000 applications for 5000 spots and today it receives 50000 applications for the same number of spots, how could that not be harder to get in? Even if those numbers don’t represent all competitive students, there’s still going to be a rise in the number of competitive students.

It’s math. 1/3 chance vs 1/10.

Yes a bit. But the same top students are all distributed across the same top spots at the end of the day. Maybe with the ease of the common app, they apply to 20 schools each instead of 5 or 7 or 9, but each student can only attend one. And we are approaching a demographic cliff where the number of college age students will decrease starting in 2025.

[Anonymous]

The good news is that previously “meh” public universities (academically) are being pretty high quality due to spillover. UGA, UMD, and VT for example have become more competitive and desirable, and as public universities you could go to them later on through transferring from a CC if you have your heart set on one of those schools. Harvard and the like have no public or social mandate to accept you as a transfer student from a CC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Check SCHEV

WM last year: median GPA 4.3/ 75% ACT 34
Ten years ago: 4.1/32

UVA: was 4.24/ 32 ten years
Now: 4.39/34

To get around the SAT argument.

Yes. In-state is getting harder.

Average high school GPAs have been going up. Rampant grade inflation.

Source?

You can look at the sources in this article. Average high school GPA was 2.68 in 1990, rising to 3.38 in 2016. I believe it has continued to rise since then. Grade inflation is most significant in more affluent areas. Most common grade in high school is now an A.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/08/24/class-grade-inflation-high-school-teacher/8185250002/

I take issue with this claim. The average SAT scores for the entire graduating classes at schools like Langley & Whitman are in the 1280+ range (80th percentile nationally). Of course those high schools are going to have pretty high average GPAs.

Statistical analysis shows that it is correct. Grade inflation is most significant at more affluent schools. Grade inflation simply means average grades are rising over time.

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/research/grade-inflation-high-schools-2005-2016

Just to clarify, more affluent school districts have higher average GPAs than less affluent school districts AND the average GPAs at the more affluent school districts have been rising more over time than at less affluent school districts.

But have standardized test scores risen more over time at more affluent districts than at less affluent districts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My point is that 35 years ago, you study hard get good but not perfect grades, high (but not that high) test scores and have a few extracurricular activities and you had excellent chance at Ivy and slam dunk at top20. There literally wasn’t that much competition. That is not the case today. I am refuting OP’s claim that it is the same landscape today as it has always been.

There was no competition from women, International students and immigrant offspring. It was a slam dunk for White males and some females. The secret is out now and everyone wants a pie of America higher ed.

+1 Want to get WFH desk job with air conditioning? There’s a good chance you need college for that.

Now, I think it’s a shame that there are hundreds of colleges that can’t even fill their dorms or make use of their land.

[Anonymous]

My public HS class in the early 80s (250 in graduating class, Long Island): 2 to Brown, 1 to Harvard, 1 to Columbia, 1 or 2 to Cornell, 4 to RPI (the most to any one school, with the exception of community college).

I was accepted to Syracuse College of Engineering with an 86 average an an 1110 SAT score (I didn't attend there)

Lately from that same HS, maybe one or two Ivy Leaguers per class, most often none. The graduating class size is now over 350.