APS Most Likely Moving to Standards-Based Grading/Grading for Equity Next School Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS actually moving to standards based grading?

I didn't see that proposal in the slides but I didn't watch the work session.

Did they say during the work session that they want to move to standards based grading system wide?

They want the SB to vote for this six months from now, and put it in effect next fall.

Third to last slide: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C7XLVB557627/$file/101421%20School%20Board%20Work%20Session%20-%20Grading%20%26%20Homework.pdf

Yes this is the schedule but I don't see anything about it moving to Standards based grading. Where are you getting that from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS actually moving to standards based grading?

I didn't see that proposal in the slides but I didn't watch the work session.

Did they say during the work session that they want to move to standards based grading system wide?

They want the SB to vote for this six months from now, and put it in effect next fall.

Third to last slide: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C7XLVB557627/$file/101421%20School%20Board%20Work%20Session%20-%20Grading%20%26%20Homework.pdf

Note, the third to last slide says nothing about public comment. They’re hoping the SB will just rubber stamp it I guess

I agree -- they know that there will be mass outcry if they put it out for comment. My youngest is in 6th grade and has yet to receive a letter grade in school. Elementary adopted standards-based grading when she was in grade 3. And now she won't get any letter grades until high school. She gets "M"s which means she meets the bare minimum standard set by the state of VA. To me, that should equal a grade of "C". The whole point of this is for you not to know how well your kid is being taught an to only identify the most direly struggling children. Which sure, they should get additional support. Average and better kids in APS are left to their own devices.

Yes, the point of this is to make everyone feel successful and to not distinguish outstanding students from average students because you don't want the average student to feel bad. This is the way to to make the goal for everyone the equivalent of "meets expectations" or "average" -- whatever those mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS and the School Board last night had their first working session to discuss setting a new grading policy by the end of this school year, with changes driven by equity concerns (based off of the book "Grading for Equity" by Joe Feldman, which 100+ at APS are reading right now and every SB member received a copy of last night).

Some proposals include:
a) Eliminating late penalties for turning in homework late
b) Allowing retakes of tests
c) Eliminating extra credit
d) Having more ungraded formative assessments (and presumably less graded homework, classwork and labs)

Here are the board slides:
https://rb.gy/cl2icr

And the working session video:
https://www.apsva.us/school-board-meetings/school-board-work-sessions-meetings/

Thoughts? Anyone know about empirical results? Downsides?

See TC Williams/Alexandria High School.

That will give you all the "results" you need on these kind of policies.

Up until just a few years ago, they had a rule if a student did nothing, nothing at all, no homework, no participation, no tests, they would still get a a grade of 50%. So let's say a student did one assignment, the teacher could give them enough points to get their grade to a D and viola they passed! The new rule was the student didn't automatically get a grade of 50%. And parents and students complained it was 'unfair". So you can see the kind of mindset that settles in after a years of low expectations.

I thought this applied to Arlington, too. I'm sure my kid mentioned not being allowed to be given less than a 50% grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS and the School Board last night had their first working session to discuss setting a new grading policy by the end of this school year, with changes driven by equity concerns (based off of the book "Grading for Equity" by Joe Feldman, which 100+ at APS are reading right now and every SB member received a copy of last night).

Some proposals include:
a) Eliminating late penalties for turning in homework late
b) Allowing retakes of tests
c) Eliminating extra credit
d) Having more ungraded formative assessments (and presumably less graded homework, classwork and labs)

Here are the board slides:
https://rb.gy/cl2icr

And the working session video:
https://www.apsva.us/school-board-meetings/school-board-work-sessions-meetings/

Thoughts? Anyone know about empirical results? Downsides?

Honest question here: What is the problem they think they need to fix? I'm not sure I understand. Is there a teacher on this forum who can help me follow this?

Not a teacher, but it sounds like APS is concerned about consistency across schools and maybe even within schools. Seems like a reasonable concern.

Consistency is a good thing; but it can be "fixed" without this ridiculous system. The argument is that SBG takes the bias of teachers out of the equation and makes grading less arbitrary. But everything I hear and read gives me the impression SBG is actually more arbitrary than clear cut grade cutoffs like 90,80, etc. The inconsistencies are in judging how good a writer someone is - that depends on personal opinion and tastes and preferences - and in policies around retaking exams and late penalties. Those things can be made consistent by establishing the same rules across APS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS and the School Board last night had their first working session to discuss setting a new grading policy by the end of this school year, with changes driven by equity concerns (based off of the book "Grading for Equity" by Joe Feldman, which 100+ at APS are reading right now and every SB member received a copy of last night).

Some proposals include:
a) Eliminating late penalties for turning in homework late
b) Allowing retakes of tests
c) Eliminating extra credit
d) Having more ungraded formative assessments (and presumably less graded homework, classwork and labs)

Here are the board slides:
https://rb.gy/cl2icr

And the working session video:
https://www.apsva.us/school-board-meetings/school-board-work-sessions-meetings/

Thoughts? Anyone know about empirical results? Downsides?

See TC Williams/Alexandria High School.

That will give you all the "results" you need on these kind of policies.

Up until just a few years ago, they had a rule if a student did nothing, nothing at all, no homework, no participation, no tests, they would still get a a grade of 50%. So let's say a student did one assignment, the teacher could give them enough points to get their grade to a D and viola they passed! The new rule was the student didn't automatically get a grade of 50%. And parents and students complained it was 'unfair". So you can see the kind of mindset that settles in after a years of low expectations.

I thought this applied to Arlington, too. I'm sure my kid mentioned not being allowed to be given less than a 50% grade.

Yup. I’m a teacher, and they’re to push that on us. I refuse. I am very flexible and fair, but I’m not giving a kid 50% for zero work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS and the School Board last night had their first working session to discuss setting a new grading policy by the end of this school year, with changes driven by equity concerns (based off of the book "Grading for Equity" by Joe Feldman, which 100+ at APS are reading right now and every SB member received a copy of last night).

Some proposals include:
a) Eliminating late penalties for turning in homework late
b) Allowing retakes of tests
c) Eliminating extra credit
d) Having more ungraded formative assessments (and presumably less graded homework, classwork and labs)

Here are the board slides:
https://rb.gy/cl2icr

And the working session video:
https://www.apsva.us/school-board-meetings/school-board-work-sessions-meetings/

Thoughts? Anyone know about empirical results? Downsides?

See TC Williams/Alexandria High School.

That will give you all the "results" you need on these kind of policies.

Up until just a few years ago, they had a rule if a student did nothing, nothing at all, no homework, no participation, no tests, they would still get a a grade of 50%. So let's say a student did one assignment, the teacher could give them enough points to get their grade to a D and viola they passed! The new rule was the student didn't automatically get a grade of 50%. And parents and students complained it was 'unfair". So you can see the kind of mindset that settles in after a years of low expectations.

I thought this applied to Arlington, too. I'm sure my kid mentioned not being allowed to be given less than a 50% grade.

Yup. I’m a teacher, and they’re to push that on us. I refuse. I am very flexible and fair, but I’m not giving a kid 50% for zero work. [/quote

I meant, they’re trying to push that on us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's insane that a kid can earn an A and then another kid that never turns in homework on-time, repeatedly gets a bad grade and gets to turn that assignment or correct that test OVER AND OVER again will end up with the same GPA. WTF?

I am so glad I pulled both my kids from APS after middle school. One 8th grader left.

Our private HS teaches consequences and instills work habits that they will need in college and for life. It sucks, but that's life. Getting downgraded and having it effect your course grade, is a consequence of not doing the work. And, if the course is too challenging you need to drop down or get help after school.

Why is it insane? The purpose of school is to learn the material, not to ration grades.

Because everyone will half-ass it, duh. Low standards always results in low performance and effort in the aggregate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS actually moving to standards based grading?

I didn't see that proposal in the slides but I didn't watch the work session.

Did they say during the work session that they want to move to standards based grading system wide?

They want the SB to vote for this six months from now, and put it in effect next fall.

Third to last slide: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C7XLVB557627/$file/101421%20School%20Board%20Work%20Session%20-%20Grading%20%26%20Homework.pdf

Note, the third to last slide says nothing about public comment. They’re hoping the SB will just rubber stamp it I guess

I agree -- they know that there will be mass outcry if they put it out for comment. My youngest is in 6th grade and has yet to receive a letter grade in school. Elementary adopted standards-based grading when she was in grade 3. And now she won't get any letter grades until high school. She gets "M"s which means she meets the bare minimum standard set by the state of VA. To me, that should equal a grade of "C". The whole point of this is for you not to know how well your kid is being taught an to only identify the most direly struggling children. Which sure, they should get additional support. Average and better kids in APS are left to their own devices.

Yes, the point of this is to make everyone feel successful and to not distinguish outstanding students from average students because you don't want the average student to feel bad. This is the way to to make the goal for everyone the equivalent of "meets expectations" or "average" -- whatever those mean.

Um, isn't that the purpose of the diploma? Q) What do you call the guy that finished last in his med school? A) Doctor

[Anonymous]

The elimination of extra credit. That must be designed to say, no more freebies for wealthy/UMC families who have the time and resources to complete those projects. On this point, I applaud you, leaders of APS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is APS actually moving to standards based grading?

I didn't see that proposal in the slides but I didn't watch the work session.

Did they say during the work session that they want to move to standards based grading system wide?

They want the SB to vote for this six months from now, and put it in effect next fall.

Third to last slide: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/arlington/Board.nsf/files/C7XLVB557627/$file/101421%20School%20Board%20Work%20Session%20-%20Grading%20%26%20Homework.pdf

Note, the third to last slide says nothing about public comment. They’re hoping the SB will just rubber stamp it I guess

I agree -- they know that there will be mass outcry if they put it out for comment. My youngest is in 6th grade and has yet to receive a letter grade in school. Elementary adopted standards-based grading when she was in grade 3. And now she won't get any letter grades until high school. She gets "M"s which means she meets the bare minimum standard set by the state of VA. To me, that should equal a grade of "C". The whole point of this is for you not to know how well your kid is being taught an to only identify the most direly struggling children. Which sure, they should get additional support. Average and better kids in APS are left to their own devices.

Yes, the point of this is to make everyone feel successful and to not distinguish outstanding students from average students because you don't want the average student to feel bad. This is the way to to make the goal for everyone the equivalent of "meets expectations" or "average" -- whatever those mean.

Um, isn't that the purpose of the diploma? Q) What do you call the guy that finished last in his med school? A) Doctor

DP. I’d call that guy a moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ranking and comparing others is fundamental to the upper middle class focus on “meritocracy.” This plan really hits that where it hurts.

No it doesn’t. It just hurts APS and APS students. The rest of the world will continue to focus on work done, grades earned, and tests passed. Because they measure ability, even though no one wants that to be true. This is a fad that will pass, but not before damaging effects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ranking and comparing others is fundamental to the upper middle class focus on “meritocracy.” This plan really hits that where it hurts.

No it doesn’t. It just hurts APS and APS students. The rest of the world will continue to focus on work done, grades earned, and tests passed. Because they measure ability, even though no one wants that to be true. This is a fad that will pass, but not before damaging effects.

Not really seeing where you’ve refuted my point.

[Anonymous]

I struggle to understand this school system at times. At one point, it looks like a school board member asks whether high schools there assign class rank. Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see where she received a clear answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ranking and comparing others is fundamental to the upper middle class focus on “meritocracy.” This plan really hits that where it hurts.

No it doesn’t. It just hurts APS and APS students. The rest of the world will continue to focus on work done, grades earned, and tests passed. Because they measure ability, even though no one wants that to be true. This is a fad that will pass, but not before damaging effects.

Not really seeing where you’ve refuted my point.

Your point seems to be that the “meritocracy” is some sham that UMC people can turn off like a light switch and make everything hunky dory for people that don’t do well in school or won’t try. Nope. It’s simply a reality that UMC are more attuned to than others. This effort to not play the game is just a head in the sand move. The earth still revolves around the sun, and real grades still matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's insane that a kid can earn an A and then another kid that never turns in homework on-time, repeatedly gets a bad grade and gets to turn that assignment or correct that test OVER AND OVER again will end up with the same GPA. WTF?

I am so glad I pulled both my kids from APS after middle school. One 8th grader left.

Our private HS teaches consequences and instills work habits that they will need in college and for life. It sucks, but that's life. Getting downgraded and having it effect your course grade, is a consequence of not doing the work. And, if the course is too challenging you need to drop down or get help after school.

Why is it insane? The purpose of school is to learn the material, not to ration grades.

Because everyone will half-ass it, duh. Low standards always results in low performance and effort in the aggregate.

+1 My son had a math class in middle school that allowed retakes. He quickly figured out that the retake was the "real" test. So, he never studied for the 1st one. He's really good at math so sometimes he got lucky and did well without studying but if not, he just studied for the 2nd one. By the time DD got to the same teacher she no longer allowed retakes because so many students had learned to approach it that way and she was having to waste class time on all those retakes.