Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Where are you getting info that the pilot was "confused" -- how could he not see the plane he was literally flying toward for most of the end of its flight path?

I agree about the bad flight path and the overcrowding of the airport, but this made up narrative makes not sense in this situation.

Because on the ATC recording, they ask the helicopter if he sees the plane approaching and he says yes. Unfortunately ATC and the helicopter were not referring to the same plane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why helicopters are allowed to fly at all anywhere around busy landing paths.

This was a military aircraft that was on orders. They don't have a choice.

We don’t know if they actually followed orders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

The helo was flying too high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden and their administration signed off on the added flights a year ago. Again the blame game doesn't work. This is a tragedy some changes will need to happen like making sure helos and airplanes are on the same frequency , this could have happened with a police or even news chopper.

The number of flights wasn't the issue here. Helicopter routes shouldn't be so close to the runway approach. Especially at night.

Why was the helicopter so close to the plane

It didn’t see it approaching. There were a couple other close by planes they were visualizing and when ATC asked them if they say it, it wasn’t clear which plane they were referring to

how do you know this? why wouldn't it be looking/seeing the plane that was directly in front of them?

Unlike jets, helicopters can fly straight up and down. While I don’t know, it is my thought that since the helicopter thought ATC was talking about another plane, it was visualizing that one. The plane they hit was not in their forward or peripheral visual field, rather it was directly above or below the helicopter and they ended up flying directly down or up into it.

+1. Both direction and altitude of the help were changing. Would have bumped down or up on the plane

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Where are you getting info that the pilot was "confused" -- how could he not see the plane he was literally flying toward for most of the end of its flight path?

I agree about the bad flight path and the overcrowding of the airport, but this made up narrative makes not sense in this situation.

Because on the ATC recording, they ask the helicopter if he sees the plane approaching and he says yes. Unfortunately ATC and the helicopter were not referring to the same plane.

We don’t know that for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Where are you getting info that the pilot was "confused" -- how could he not see the plane he was literally flying toward for most of the end of its flight path?

I agree about the bad flight path and the overcrowding of the airport, but this made up narrative makes not sense in this situation.

DP. Sounds like the helicopter had visual contact with the other plane taking off that is seen in the crash video. They likely hit the plane at the wing so the airline pilots had no idea it was coming and no time to react.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why helicopters are allowed to fly at all anywhere around busy landing paths.

This was a military aircraft that was on orders. They don't have a choice.

Hegseth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listening to the scanner app. This is horrible. Just wait until President Musk shuts down the FAA.

Please keep the hate elsewhere.

Okay. Let’s talk instead about how unelected oligarch Musk attacked the FAA repeatedly because he didn’t like them fining SpaceX, and then demanded the head resign one year into his five year term. And so he did! On January 20. Well done, Elon. We totally don’t need government to function!

I just googled this to confirm, and it’s true, he quit 9 days earlier.

OMG I’m terrified who Trump might install. Between this and the military being at fault, it is 100% on them. Let’s see some leadership today to instill confidence that Americans are safe flying and that they’re taking this seriously.

I think of how Musk has run Twitter/X, firing these people and turning off that feature, deleting this code and changing that code. Over time, X has worked less and less well.

Now he's doing that with the federal government, and 70 people are dead.

Truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listening to the scanner app. This is horrible. Just wait until President Musk shuts down the FAA.

Please keep the hate elsewhere.

Okay. Let’s talk instead about how unelected oligarch Musk attacked the FAA repeatedly because he didn’t like them fining SpaceX, and then demanded the head resign one year into his five year term. And so he did! On January 20. Well done, Elon. We totally don’t need government to function!

I just googled this to confirm, and it’s true, he quit 9 days earlier.

OMG I’m terrified who Trump might install. Between this and the military being at fault, it is 100% on them. Let’s see some leadership today to instill confidence that Americans are safe flying and that they’re taking this seriously.

Musk’s recklessness is already creating tragic consequences.

What? This crash didn’t have anything to do with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s zero reason for so many helicopters in DC, let alone “training flights.” They fly too low over residential areas and seem to just be doing it as a lark. They should train elsewhere.

They were returning to fort Belvior. Called it a training flight bc they probably flipped pilot and copilot. Not a big deal.

Hate their route, wish they left later.

We don’t know for sure if they flipped pilots, do we?

If they called it a Training flight they put the pilot with the fewest hours in the driver driver seat. That’s all. Could have been a 500 or 1000 hrs one knowledgeable on DC altitude rules, or not. Same for copilot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The media is certainly not publicizing the "VIP flight" aspect.

Who was dropped off at Langley and why was this flight necessary in the first place?

Ehh, prob not a primary issue or an issue here. If they needed to get the BH back, it was probably offered up and then continued back to original FB base.

The issue is that there are too many VIP flights in the airspace surrounding DCA. And it's gotten worse in the last two weeks.

Just doing visual confirmation doesn't work when you flood a small airspace with too many commercial flights + heavy increase in VIP helos. Too many simultaneous moving pieces. The system finally broke.

DCA ATC needs to take control of the airspace and do visual + verbal positioning. VIP mil flights need to be dramatically reduced. Every two-bit under sec, deputy, and Congress committee chair is a VIP. They need to have their butts in a vehicle if they need to go to Langley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Where are you getting info that the pilot was "confused" -- how could he not see the plane he was literally flying toward for most of the end of its flight path?

I agree about the bad flight path and the overcrowding of the airport, but this made up narrative makes not sense in this situation.

Because on the ATC recording, they ask the helicopter if he sees the plane approaching and he says yes. Unfortunately ATC and the helicopter were not referring to the same plane.

I asked a pilot and he said no way, the other plane was too far away for this error.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP. It is the helicopter but mistakes happen. The issue is not allowing human error to impact devastatingly. Do you can't let pilots take the responsibility of hopefully seeing everything that may impede their flights. You need to ensure other safety measures like providing them with specific 411 on where the prob may be and/or tech to help do same. Europe does not allow these incidents to happen for example.

There's never been a crash in Europe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listening to the scanner app. This is horrible. Just wait until President Musk shuts down the FAA.

Please keep the hate elsewhere.

Okay. Let’s talk instead about how unelected oligarch Musk attacked the FAA repeatedly because he didn’t like them fining SpaceX, and then demanded the head resign one year into his five year term. And so he did! On January 20. Well done, Elon. We totally don’t need government to function!

I just googled this to confirm, and it’s true, he quit 9 days earlier.

OMG I’m terrified who Trump might install. Between this and the military being at fault, it is 100% on them. Let’s see some leadership today to instill confidence that Americans are safe flying and that they’re taking this seriously.

Instead we have a frightened president who sends out messages like an 85 year old grandma on Facebook. There is no leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know whether helicopters crossing are supposed to wait for an affirmative okay to cross from the ATC, or whether they can cross unless told NOT to cross by ATC?

This does seem like a crazy intersection to me.

Military missions have different rules. They also are on different frequencies (although monitoring tower.) This is their normal route. It intersects the circle to land pattern for the short runway. It’s a dumb as crap situation and has been a disaster waiting to happen for years. Has nothing to do with how many flights there are at DCA or politics. The scopes are out and show this was a developing situation that ATC didn’t deconflict. And the helo pilot didn’t maintain visual separation. This was completely avoidable and while claiming trump or musk might feel good this one isn’t their fault.

It has everything to do with more flights. The helicopter pilot was confused because there were three planes up there with him. He thought he was visualizing the one ATC asked about. But oops! There was another plane up there he couldn’t see! The industry knew this was just a matter of time, but they wanted to keep adding new flights to the busiest runway in the nation.

https://www.protectregionalairports.com/2024/01/26/dca-is-still-the-busiest-runway-in-the-nation/

Where are you getting info that the pilot was "confused" -- how could he not see the plane he was literally flying toward for most of the end of its flight path?

I agree about the bad flight path and the overcrowding of the airport, but this made up narrative makes not sense in this situation.

Because on the ATC recording, they ask the helicopter if he sees the plane approaching and he says yes. Unfortunately ATC and the helicopter were not referring to the same plane.

I asked a pilot and he said no way, the other plane was too far away for this error.

And PP's speculation makes no sense anyway.