Why is there a teacher shortage?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is teachers are treated like unpro crap and blamed for society's ills while being paid peanuts and getting no support from the admin or union.

That’s the reason. I can’t think of another profession requiring a specialized degree and license that pays so little

I can’t think of any other profession that gets over 3 months off per year.

Me neither since it's more like two months. Even that doesn't help. There is a shortage and it will get worse. Nobody seems to care to do anything about it. Eventually, schools will go to a model that already exists in places. One certified teacher will teach online while many classrooms will watch. They will employ monitors to watch the kids in person in the classrooms.

Summer alone is 2.5 months. There are lot more days/weeks off and vacations during the school year. It is a lot of time off

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HELP THOUGH, DOES IT? If these benefits are so awesome, people should be flocking to fill these positions but they aren't. We've had vacancies for over a year and not one person has even applied to most of them.

So…teachers should get paid a lot more for working a lot less?

Let’s be very, very clear about this:
Apparently these glorious summers aren’t a huge perk. WE ARE ALL STILL LEAVING. If you think these amazing summers are worth it, then apply to work as a teacher.

You clearly know the workload and the pay AREN’T worth it, because I don’t see you lining up for an interview. I don’t see anybody lining up for an interview!

I’m so sick of hearing “but you get all this time off.” I work 7 days a week. Yes, 7. I am never caught up. I spend my glorious unpaid summers you seem to crave in classes that I PAY FOR in order to keep my certification.

So just stop with the “all the time off” nonsense. Frankly, it’s very insulting.

Teachers haters irrationally hate teachers. There is literally nothing that you can explain to them that will help them understand.

No one hates teachers, but let’s not claim teachers are working 8+ hrs per day 7 days per week and 365 days per year. They don’t. In fact, it’s been discussed to pay teachers more and have them be year round employee and many teachers chimed in stating there isn’t enough work for them to do. No other profession gets as many vacation days as teachers do. Some people want to make a lot of money and seek a job that pays as such, but you’d be lucky to get. Some people would rather make less and have more time off and a schedule more closely aligned to the days off their children have. Short of taking FMLA leave, no other employee could take the same number of (unpaid) days off a teacher has without getting fired. The avg American only gets 11-15 paid vacation days, of which most people don’t even take for various reasons. That is comparable to the paid time off teachers get as well.

Teachers don’t get paid time off. They work 180 days and get paid got those 180 days.

My kids have 6 teachers/6 classes daily. There seems to be a least one sub per week in a class, sometimes more. Does this get deducted from their 180 days of paid working days?

Most teachers get 8-10 days of leave a year. So those teachers lost a day of leave, yes.

I think the PP is trying to point out that the days teachers don’t work (summer break, spring break, etc) aren’t actually leave. Teachers contracts are for 180-190 days a year. Breaks aren’t “leave”. They just aren’t work days. Teachers aren’t paid for them.

(And they often are work days. When I taught public school, my family was very mad at me for grading on thanksgiving. I had no choice. It had to get done.)

So teachers do get paid time off in addition to the unpaid breaks

Do you think of your weekends as “unpaid breaks”? I suspect you don’t.

So 10 days of leave for 190 days of work. That’s not a lot.

My husband gets 45 days of personal leave a year, including 2 additional weeks at Christmas. He also gets paid about three times more than a teacher and doesn’t work 40 hours a week. He can take just 1 hour of leave and doesn’t have to do anything to prepare for it. He has true flexibility.

I think you are trying to make the argument that teachers have it so good. They don’t. Period. That’s why the teacher shortage exists.

Teachers make average pay, for average work. They have decent benefits, some of which are very unique and many find helpful for their lifestyle (having holidays, snow days, and summers mostly off). It isn’t the best job, but it is far from the worst. I find the constant complaining and demands for respect exhausted. Many many people have harder and more demanding jobs with less benefits. I’m sure we all could find a million complaints about our current jobs. Leave if you don’t like it, doesn’t bother me a bit.

Can you think of another profession that requires a degree, specialized course work, and a license and pays similarly?

Social work? Many of those working in government employment make similarly low salaries, including attorneys working as prosecutors and public defenders, make even less than teachers with less flexibility for work/life balance.

Nurses

Classic pink collar scale. Traditional female jobs (teacher, librarian, nurses, medical technology, dental hygienist) all have a lower pay scale than other jobs that require similar levels of education or experience. Traditionally, women were considered lower class professionals and were paid accordingly. These careers have not caught up, despite the fact that many men now enter these fields.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Most teachers I know like the schedule because it allows them to be there for their kids for much of the summer. On the other hand, it’s not such a perk that it’s keeping them from leaving.

+1, I also know teachers without kids who like it because it allows them to take longer vacations in the summer. I have a friend who teaches and she does foreign travel every summer. She's considered changing fields because there are things about teaching she doesn't like, but she's really reluctant to give up the ability to go abroad for a full month -- if you love foreign travel but don't have a ton of money, it's a much more economical way to do it because you only buy the plane tickets once and then you can visit multiple countries and cities.

So in her case, I guess sit is a perk that keeps her from leaving. She's also a 15 yr veteran in a district that pays well though, and has a good pension. I think the teacher shortage is really most acute places where teachers are paid poorly. Teachers in most DMV districts actually make pretty good money, especially if they put in some years to reach the highest pay step, and/or are willing to work in Title 1 schools, which many are. I know teachers in this area who make around 140k plus will qualify for a full pension in their 50s. Even in a high COL area like this, that's really not bad at all. Especially if you are married to someone with a similar or better income.

I get why teachers quit, it's a tough job and doesn't get enough respect. It's also my impression that many schools and districts are just incredibly poorly run, and no matter what field you're in, working for dysfunctional organizations wears you down over time. It's my impression that at least in the DMV, job dissatisfaction among teachers is driven by stuff like hating curriculum changes or bad administration, much more so than low pay or annoying parents. The pay is not that low and, tbh, if you are in the DMV at a school where the parents are involved enough to be annoying, you probably recognize that the alternative is a school with little to know parental involvement, which is generally a lot harder.

Those areas were facing teacher shortages before the pandemic.

The DC area is facing increasingly worse teacher shortages since the pandemic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/09/dc-area-schools-teacher-resignations/

In most D.C.-area districts, more teachers resigned during the 2022-2023 school year than in the term prior, data shows. Alexandria saw 325 teachers leave last year, compared with 212 in 2021-2022. More than 500 teachers left Loudoun County Public Schools last year, up from 339 in the school year prior. In Prince George’s County, officials counted 1,126 resignations between July 2022 and this July — the district last year reported losing 989 teachers between June 2021 and July 2022.
In Maryland’s largest school system — Montgomery County Public Schools — 625 teachers have resigned since the start of the 2022-2023 school year, which is about 2.4 percent of the total workforce. In 2021-2022, 576 teachers resigned their positions, The Washington Post previously reported.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1108-8.html
> Teachers reported better well-being in January 2023 than in 2021 and 2022, and rates of job-related stress have returned to pre-pandemic levels. However, teachers continue to report worse well-being than the general population of working adults.

> Twenty-three percent of teachers said that they were likely to leave their job by the end of the 2022–2023 school year. Of these teachers, those who reported poor well-being were more likely than their counterparts to say that they intended to leave. Stress and disappointment of the job, salary, and number of working hours were the top reasons teachers intended to leave.

> Among the 77 percent of teachers who were unlikely to leave their job by the end of the 2022–2023 school year, their ability to positively affect students and positive relationships with students and other teachers were the top reasons they intended to stay.


Takeaway: be nice to the teachers who are staying because they are there for your kids

You just said that it'sabout pay, not parents. So it doesn't matter if parents are 'nice' or not.

DC surveys of why teachers leave cite bad management, new curriculum things, hours, etc.

"Bad parenting" is just a cudgel that has no use for actual change. It's just people on this board who I suspect as being deeply misogynist using it as cover.

Maybe you’re confusing posters. I didn’t say it’s about pay or anything about bad parenting.

If you want teachers to stay, listen to them. And, as a start, stop disparaging them on DCUM.

Your quote was: "Takeaway: be nice to the teachers". Although I do admit that your posts don't mention pay.

Please also stop disparaging parents on DCUM. Saying that 80% of the problem of teachers leaving is bad parenting (like three pages ago) isn't winning parents to the side of teachers. Plus it's not even correct, if you look at actual studies of why teachers are leaving the profession.

Being nice or not to teachers, in the sense of smiling at them or other trivialities (pizza party, anyone?), isn't going to do anything to get teachers to stay or not. It's silly to say so.

As a parent, I'm very comfortable saying that there are many parents who are terrible to teachers, especially on DCUM. For example, treating teachers as if they are on a different "side" is a crappy attitude. It may not be enough to get teachers to stay, but the very least you can do to be kind to teachers. Not everyone is doing that.

My other point earlier was: listen to teachers. On this thread. From the survey I posted. At your kid's school. PPs should stop trying to mansplain how teachers have it so good because they have summers "off" and actually listen to teacher's concerns.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is teachers are treated like unpro crap and blamed for society's ills while being paid peanuts and getting no support from the admin or union.

That’s the reason. I can’t think of another profession requiring a specialized degree and license that pays so little

I can’t think of any other profession that gets over 3 months off per year.

Me neither since it's more like two months. Even that doesn't help. There is a shortage and it will get worse. Nobody seems to care to do anything about it. Eventually, schools will go to a model that already exists in places. One certified teacher will teach online while many classrooms will watch. They will employ monitors to watch the kids in person in the classrooms.

Summer alone is 2.5 months. There are lot more days/weeks off and vacations during the school year. It is a lot of time off

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HELP THOUGH, DOES IT? If these benefits are so awesome, people should be flocking to fill these positions but they aren't. We've had vacancies for over a year and not one person has even applied to most of them.

So…teachers should get paid a lot more for working a lot less?

Let’s be very, very clear about this:
Apparently these glorious summers aren’t a huge perk. WE ARE ALL STILL LEAVING. If you think these amazing summers are worth it, then apply to work as a teacher.

You clearly know the workload and the pay AREN’T worth it, because I don’t see you lining up for an interview. I don’t see anybody lining up for an interview!

I’m so sick of hearing “but you get all this time off.” I work 7 days a week. Yes, 7. I am never caught up. I spend my glorious unpaid summers you seem to crave in classes that I PAY FOR in order to keep my certification.

So just stop with the “all the time off” nonsense. Frankly, it’s very insulting.

Teachers haters irrationally hate teachers. There is literally nothing that you can explain to them that will help them understand.

No one hates teachers, but let’s not claim teachers are working 8+ hrs per day 7 days per week and 365 days per year. They don’t. In fact, it’s been discussed to pay teachers more and have them be year round employee and many teachers chimed in stating there isn’t enough work for them to do. No other profession gets as many vacation days as teachers do. Some people want to make a lot of money and seek a job that pays as such, but you’d be lucky to get. Some people would rather make less and have more time off and a schedule more closely aligned to the days off their children have. Short of taking FMLA leave, no other employee could take the same number of (unpaid) days off a teacher has without getting fired. The avg American only gets 11-15 paid vacation days, of which most people don’t even take for various reasons. That is comparable to the paid time off teachers get as well.

Teachers don’t get paid time off. They work 180 days and get paid got those 180 days.

My kids have 6 teachers/6 classes daily. There seems to be a least one sub per week in a class, sometimes more. Does this get deducted from their 180 days of paid working days?

Most teachers get 8-10 days of leave a year. So those teachers lost a day of leave, yes.

I think the PP is trying to point out that the days teachers don’t work (summer break, spring break, etc) aren’t actually leave. Teachers contracts are for 180-190 days a year. Breaks aren’t “leave”. They just aren’t work days. Teachers aren’t paid for them.

(And they often are work days. When I taught public school, my family was very mad at me for grading on thanksgiving. I had no choice. It had to get done.)

So teachers do get paid time off in addition to the unpaid breaks

Do you think of your weekends as “unpaid breaks”? I suspect you don’t.

So 10 days of leave for 190 days of work. That’s not a lot.

My husband gets 45 days of personal leave a year, including 2 additional weeks at Christmas. He also gets paid about three times more than a teacher and doesn’t work 40 hours a week. He can take just 1 hour of leave and doesn’t have to do anything to prepare for it. He has true flexibility.

I think you are trying to make the argument that teachers have it so good. They don’t. Period. That’s why the teacher shortage exists.

Teachers make average pay, for average work. They have decent benefits, some of which are very unique and many find helpful for their lifestyle (having holidays, snow days, and summers mostly off). It isn’t the best job, but it is far from the worst. I find the constant complaining and demands for respect exhausted. Many many people have harder and more demanding jobs with less benefits. I’m sure we all could find a million complaints about our current jobs. Leave if you don’t like it, doesn’t bother me a bit.

Can you think of another profession that requires a degree, specialized course work, and a license and pays similarly?

Social work? Many of those working in government employment make similarly low salaries, including attorneys working as prosecutors and public defenders, make even less than teachers with less flexibility for work/life balance.

Nurses

Are nurses poorly paid these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is teachers are treated like unpro crap and blamed for society's ills while being paid peanuts and getting no support from the admin or union.

That’s the reason. I can’t think of another profession requiring a specialized degree and license that pays so little

I can’t think of any other profession that gets over 3 months off per year.

Me neither since it's more like two months. Even that doesn't help. There is a shortage and it will get worse. Nobody seems to care to do anything about it. Eventually, schools will go to a model that already exists in places. One certified teacher will teach online while many classrooms will watch. They will employ monitors to watch the kids in person in the classrooms.

Summer alone is 2.5 months. There are lot more days/weeks off and vacations during the school year. It is a lot of time off

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HELP THOUGH, DOES IT? If these benefits are so awesome, people should be flocking to fill these positions but they aren't. We've had vacancies for over a year and not one person has even applied to most of them.

So…teachers should get paid a lot more for working a lot less?

Let’s be very, very clear about this:
Apparently these glorious summers aren’t a huge perk. WE ARE ALL STILL LEAVING. If you think these amazing summers are worth it, then apply to work as a teacher.

You clearly know the workload and the pay AREN’T worth it, because I don’t see you lining up for an interview. I don’t see anybody lining up for an interview!

I’m so sick of hearing “but you get all this time off.” I work 7 days a week. Yes, 7. I am never caught up. I spend my glorious unpaid summers you seem to crave in classes that I PAY FOR in order to keep my certification.

So just stop with the “all the time off” nonsense. Frankly, it’s very insulting.

Teachers haters irrationally hate teachers. There is literally nothing that you can explain to them that will help them understand.

No one hates teachers, but let’s not claim teachers are working 8+ hrs per day 7 days per week and 365 days per year. They don’t. In fact, it’s been discussed to pay teachers more and have them be year round employee and many teachers chimed in stating there isn’t enough work for them to do. No other profession gets as many vacation days as teachers do. Some people want to make a lot of money and seek a job that pays as such, but you’d be lucky to get. Some people would rather make less and have more time off and a schedule more closely aligned to the days off their children have. Short of taking FMLA leave, no other employee could take the same number of (unpaid) days off a teacher has without getting fired. The avg American only gets 11-15 paid vacation days, of which most people don’t even take for various reasons. That is comparable to the paid time off teachers get as well.

Teachers don’t get paid time off. They work 180 days and get paid got those 180 days.

My kids have 6 teachers/6 classes daily. There seems to be a least one sub per week in a class, sometimes more. Does this get deducted from their 180 days of paid working days?

Most teachers get 8-10 days of leave a year. So those teachers lost a day of leave, yes.

I think the PP is trying to point out that the days teachers don’t work (summer break, spring break, etc) aren’t actually leave. Teachers contracts are for 180-190 days a year. Breaks aren’t “leave”. They just aren’t work days. Teachers aren’t paid for them.

(And they often are work days. When I taught public school, my family was very mad at me for grading on thanksgiving. I had no choice. It had to get done.)

So teachers do get paid time off in addition to the unpaid breaks

Do you think of your weekends as “unpaid breaks”? I suspect you don’t.

So 10 days of leave for 190 days of work. That’s not a lot.

My husband gets 45 days of personal leave a year, including 2 additional weeks at Christmas. He also gets paid about three times more than a teacher and doesn’t work 40 hours a week. He can take just 1 hour of leave and doesn’t have to do anything to prepare for it. He has true flexibility.

I think you are trying to make the argument that teachers have it so good. They don’t. Period. That’s why the teacher shortage exists.

Teachers make average pay, for average work. They have decent benefits, some of which are very unique and many find helpful for their lifestyle (having holidays, snow days, and summers mostly off). It isn’t the best job, but it is far from the worst. I find the constant complaining and demands for respect exhausted. Many many people have harder and more demanding jobs with less benefits. I’m sure we all could find a million complaints about our current jobs. Leave if you don’t like it, doesn’t bother me a bit.

Can you think of another profession that requires a degree, specialized course work, and a license and pays similarly?

Social work? Many of those working in government employment make similarly low salaries, including attorneys working as prosecutors and public defenders, make even less than teachers with less flexibility for work/life balance.

Nurses

Are nurses poorly paid these days?

Your average in-patient hospital employed nurse isnt a high paying job. Yet you are mandated to work holidays, nights, can only take x amount of days off consecutively, get abused at work by patients and their family, have to work in understaffed unsafe conditions that jeopardize your license.

[Anonymous]

Everyone gets caught up in why there is a shortage, but that's also been discussed ad nauseam. An equally pressing question is "what are school systems doing to recruit enough teachers to fully staff schools next year?" Because leaving that question until May is far too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets caught up in why there is a shortage, but that's also been discussed ad nauseam. An equally pressing question is "what are school systems doing to recruit enough teachers to fully staff schools next year?" Because leaving that question until May is far too late.

They aren't doing anything except looking outside of the US. If they want to know what to do, they should be doing exit interviews and making the changes that they can make right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets caught up in why there is a shortage, but that's also been discussed ad nauseam. An equally pressing question is "what are school systems doing to recruit enough teachers to fully staff schools next year?" Because leaving that question until May is far too late.

Nothing because paying a teacher like an accountant would bankrupt school districts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets caught up in why there is a shortage, but that's also been discussed ad nauseam. An equally pressing question is "what are school systems doing to recruit enough teachers to fully staff schools next year?" Because leaving that question until May is far too late.

There aren’t enough teachers coming out of universities. Simply put: there will be vacancies nationwide, even more so than there are now.

A poster above said that there are other hard jobs. Nobody is arguing that. When you have a mass departure like we’re seeing in education, though, perhaps it’s time to slow down and look at why. It isn’t the pay. It’s the pay PLUS the hours PLUS the “go-go-go” day with no down time PLUS the lack of respect PLUS the never ending demands on teachers’ time, emotions, and patience PLUS the verbal and possibly physical abuse PLUS the legal issues regarding unmet 504s and IEPs (which are almost always out of the teacher’s control anyway).

I just sat down for the first time since 7:40am, 8 hours ago. I presented for 5 hours to 120 students. I attended 2 meetings and led another one. I have 24 emails to respond to before tomorrow. I have a stack of papers 5 inches high I have to comment on by Friday.

I had 32 unscheduled minutes to myself today. I spent it chasing down a counselor about an immediate student concern. I didn’t eat lunch.

Today was a normal day.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is teachers are treated like unpro crap and blamed for society's ills while being paid peanuts and getting no support from the admin or union.

That’s the reason. I can’t think of another profession requiring a specialized degree and license that pays so little

I can’t think of any other profession that gets over 3 months off per year.

Me neither since it's more like two months. Even that doesn't help. There is a shortage and it will get worse. Nobody seems to care to do anything about it. Eventually, schools will go to a model that already exists in places. One certified teacher will teach online while many classrooms will watch. They will employ monitors to watch the kids in person in the classrooms.

Summer alone is 2.5 months. There are lot more days/weeks off and vacations during the school year. It is a lot of time off

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HELP THOUGH, DOES IT? If these benefits are so awesome, people should be flocking to fill these positions but they aren't. We've had vacancies for over a year and not one person has even applied to most of them.

So…teachers should get paid a lot more for working a lot less?

Let’s be very, very clear about this:
Apparently these glorious summers aren’t a huge perk. WE ARE ALL STILL LEAVING. If you think these amazing summers are worth it, then apply to work as a teacher.

You clearly know the workload and the pay AREN’T worth it, because I don’t see you lining up for an interview. I don’t see anybody lining up for an interview!

I’m so sick of hearing “but you get all this time off.” I work 7 days a week. Yes, 7. I am never caught up. I spend my glorious unpaid summers you seem to crave in classes that I PAY FOR in order to keep my certification.

So just stop with the “all the time off” nonsense. Frankly, it’s very insulting.

Teachers haters irrationally hate teachers. There is literally nothing that you can explain to them that will help them understand.

No one hates teachers, but let’s not claim teachers are working 8+ hrs per day 7 days per week and 365 days per year. They don’t. In fact, it’s been discussed to pay teachers more and have them be year round employee and many teachers chimed in stating there isn’t enough work for them to do. No other profession gets as many vacation days as teachers do. Some people want to make a lot of money and seek a job that pays as such, but you’d be lucky to get. Some people would rather make less and have more time off and a schedule more closely aligned to the days off their children have. Short of taking FMLA leave, no other employee could take the same number of (unpaid) days off a teacher has without getting fired. The avg American only gets 11-15 paid vacation days, of which most people don’t even take for various reasons. That is comparable to the paid time off teachers get as well.

Teachers don’t get paid time off. They work 180 days and get paid got those 180 days.

My kids have 6 teachers/6 classes daily. There seems to be a least one sub per week in a class, sometimes more. Does this get deducted from their 180 days of paid working days?

Most teachers get 8-10 days of leave a year. So those teachers lost a day of leave, yes.

I think the PP is trying to point out that the days teachers don’t work (summer break, spring break, etc) aren’t actually leave. Teachers contracts are for 180-190 days a year. Breaks aren’t “leave”. They just aren’t work days. Teachers aren’t paid for them.

(And they often are work days. When I taught public school, my family was very mad at me for grading on thanksgiving. I had no choice. It had to get done.)

So teachers do get paid time off in addition to the unpaid breaks

Do you think of your weekends as “unpaid breaks”? I suspect you don’t.

So 10 days of leave for 190 days of work. That’s not a lot.

My husband gets 45 days of personal leave a year, including 2 additional weeks at Christmas. He also gets paid about three times more than a teacher and doesn’t work 40 hours a week. He can take just 1 hour of leave and doesn’t have to do anything to prepare for it. He has true flexibility.

I think you are trying to make the argument that teachers have it so good. They don’t. Period. That’s why the teacher shortage exists.

THIS!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is teachers are treated like unpro crap and blamed for society's ills while being paid peanuts and getting no support from the admin or union.

That’s the reason. I can’t think of another profession requiring a specialized degree and license that pays so little

I can’t think of any other profession that gets over 3 months off per year.

Me neither since it's more like two months. Even that doesn't help. There is a shortage and it will get worse. Nobody seems to care to do anything about it. Eventually, schools will go to a model that already exists in places. One certified teacher will teach online while many classrooms will watch. They will employ monitors to watch the kids in person in the classrooms.

Summer alone is 2.5 months. There are lot more days/weeks off and vacations during the school year. It is a lot of time off

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HELP THOUGH, DOES IT? If these benefits are so awesome, people should be flocking to fill these positions but they aren't. We've had vacancies for over a year and not one person has even applied to most of them.

So…teachers should get paid a lot more for working a lot less?

Let’s be very, very clear about this:
Apparently these glorious summers aren’t a huge perk. WE ARE ALL STILL LEAVING. If you think these amazing summers are worth it, then apply to work as a teacher.

You clearly know the workload and the pay AREN’T worth it, because I don’t see you lining up for an interview. I don’t see anybody lining up for an interview!

I’m so sick of hearing “but you get all this time off.” I work 7 days a week. Yes, 7. I am never caught up. I spend my glorious unpaid summers you seem to crave in classes that I PAY FOR in order to keep my certification.

So just stop with the “all the time off” nonsense. Frankly, it’s very insulting.

Teachers haters irrationally hate teachers. There is literally nothing that you can explain to them that will help them understand.

No one hates teachers, but let’s not claim teachers are working 8+ hrs per day 7 days per week and 365 days per year. They don’t. In fact, it’s been discussed to pay teachers more and have them be year round employee and many teachers chimed in stating there isn’t enough work for them to do. No other profession gets as many vacation days as teachers do. Some people want to make a lot of money and seek a job that pays as such, but you’d be lucky to get. Some people would rather make less and have more time off and a schedule more closely aligned to the days off their children have. Short of taking FMLA leave, no other employee could take the same number of (unpaid) days off a teacher has without getting fired. The avg American only gets 11-15 paid vacation days, of which most people don’t even take for various reasons. That is comparable to the paid time off teachers get as well.

Teachers don’t get paid time off. They work 180 days and get paid got those 180 days.

My kids have 6 teachers/6 classes daily. There seems to be a least one sub per week in a class, sometimes more. Does this get deducted from their 180 days of paid working days?

Most teachers get 8-10 days of leave a year. So those teachers lost a day of leave, yes.

I think the PP is trying to point out that the days teachers don’t work (summer break, spring break, etc) aren’t actually leave. Teachers contracts are for 180-190 days a year. Breaks aren’t “leave”. They just aren’t work days. Teachers aren’t paid for them.

(And they often are work days. When I taught public school, my family was very mad at me for grading on thanksgiving. I had no choice. It had to get done.)

So teachers do get paid time off in addition to the unpaid breaks

Do you think of your weekends as “unpaid breaks”? I suspect you don’t.

So 10 days of leave for 190 days of work. That’s not a lot.

My husband gets 45 days of personal leave a year, including 2 additional weeks at Christmas. He also gets paid about three times more than a teacher and doesn’t work 40 hours a week. He can take just 1 hour of leave and doesn’t have to do anything to prepare for it. He has true flexibility.

I think you are trying to make the argument that teachers have it so good. They don’t. Period. That’s why the teacher shortage exists.

DP. No, teachers don't have it "so good," but we should be clear about what are and are not problems. Given salary levels, combined with the ability to make more money over the summer, pay isn't a major problem for teachers in the area. Limited personal leave is a challenge, mitigated by some of the breaks. But every decent teacher I know is always regularly up late working on grading or lesson plans.

This is why pay is the least of my concerns. You could double my pay and I still won’t stay.

It’s the demands of the job. It’s being “on stage” most of my day. It’s managing 150 people, many of whom don’t want to be managed, and then being held accountable for how they do. It’s grading! Grading at 4pm, 9pm, 11pm, and 6am on Saturdays. It’s nonstop emails that I don’t have time to respond to. It’s giving every opportunity to a student, and then having a parent tear me apart when all of my efforts fail. It’s covering for other teachers because they quit mid-year, meaning I get less time to do my own work. It’s administrators who create work for me to justify their own jobs.

Pay me three times more and I will still quit. It isn’t worth it.

++++++1

This! It's too much and such a disrespected profession-who needs this kind of stress....I did not go back this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is teachers are treated like unpro crap and blamed for society's ills while being paid peanuts and getting no support from the admin or union.

That’s the reason. I can’t think of another profession requiring a specialized degree and license that pays so little

I can’t think of any other profession that gets over 3 months off per year.

Me neither since it's more like two months. Even that doesn't help. There is a shortage and it will get worse. Nobody seems to care to do anything about it. Eventually, schools will go to a model that already exists in places. One certified teacher will teach online while many classrooms will watch. They will employ monitors to watch the kids in person in the classrooms.

Summer alone is 2.5 months. There are lot more days/weeks off and vacations during the school year. It is a lot of time off

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HELP THOUGH, DOES IT? If these benefits are so awesome, people should be flocking to fill these positions but they aren't. We've had vacancies for over a year and not one person has even applied to most of them.

So…teachers should get paid a lot more for working a lot less?

Let’s be very, very clear about this:
Apparently these glorious summers aren’t a huge perk. WE ARE ALL STILL LEAVING. If you think these amazing summers are worth it, then apply to work as a teacher.

You clearly know the workload and the pay AREN’T worth it, because I don’t see you lining up for an interview. I don’t see anybody lining up for an interview!

I’m so sick of hearing “but you get all this time off.” I work 7 days a week. Yes, 7. I am never caught up. I spend my glorious unpaid summers you seem to crave in classes that I PAY FOR in order to keep my certification.

So just stop with the “all the time off” nonsense. Frankly, it’s very insulting.

Teachers haters irrationally hate teachers. There is literally nothing that you can explain to them that will help them understand.

No one hates teachers, but let’s not claim teachers are working 8+ hrs per day 7 days per week and 365 days per year. They don’t. In fact, it’s been discussed to pay teachers more and have them be year round employee and many teachers chimed in stating there isn’t enough work for them to do. No other profession gets as many vacation days as teachers do. Some people want to make a lot of money and seek a job that pays as such, but you’d be lucky to get. Some people would rather make less and have more time off and a schedule more closely aligned to the days off their children have. Short of taking FMLA leave, no other employee could take the same number of (unpaid) days off a teacher has without getting fired. The avg American only gets 11-15 paid vacation days, of which most people don’t even take for various reasons. That is comparable to the paid time off teachers get as well.

Teachers don’t get paid time off. They work 180 days and get paid got those 180 days.

My kids have 6 teachers/6 classes daily. There seems to be a least one sub per week in a class, sometimes more. Does this get deducted from their 180 days of paid working days?

Most teachers get 8-10 days of leave a year. So those teachers lost a day of leave, yes.

I think the PP is trying to point out that the days teachers don’t work (summer break, spring break, etc) aren’t actually leave. Teachers contracts are for 180-190 days a year. Breaks aren’t “leave”. They just aren’t work days. Teachers aren’t paid for them.

(And they often are work days. When I taught public school, my family was very mad at me for grading on thanksgiving. I had no choice. It had to get done.)

So teachers do get paid time off in addition to the unpaid breaks

Do you think of your weekends as “unpaid breaks”? I suspect you don’t.

So 10 days of leave for 190 days of work. That’s not a lot.

My husband gets 45 days of personal leave a year, including 2 additional weeks at Christmas. He also gets paid about three times more than a teacher and doesn’t work 40 hours a week. He can take just 1 hour of leave and doesn’t have to do anything to prepare for it. He has true flexibility.

I think you are trying to make the argument that teachers have it so good. They don’t. Period. That’s why the teacher shortage exists.

THIS!!!

+1


In September, I took a half day for a reoccurring doctor appointment and couldn’t get a sub. I was told to take a full day next time. Couple weeks ago, I took a full day although I had a 1 pm appointment. At 6:45, I got a call asking me to come in for a half a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets caught up in why there is a shortage, but that's also been discussed ad nauseam. An equally pressing question is "what are school systems doing to recruit enough teachers to fully staff schools next year?" Because leaving that question until May is far too late.

There aren’t enough teachers coming out of universities. Simply put: there will be vacancies nationwide, even more so than there are now.

A poster above said that there are other hard jobs. Nobody is arguing that. When you have a mass departure like we’re seeing in education, though, perhaps it’s time to slow down and look at why. It isn’t the pay. It’s the pay PLUS the hours PLUS the “go-go-go” day with no down time PLUS the lack of respect PLUS the never ending demands on teachers’ time, emotions, and patience PLUS the verbal and possibly physical abuse PLUS the legal issues regarding unmet 504s and IEPs (which are almost always out of the teacher’s control anyway).

I just sat down for the first time since 7:40am, 8 hours ago. I presented for 5 hours to 120 students. I attended 2 meetings and led another one. I have 24 emails to respond to before tomorrow. I have a stack of papers 5 inches high I have to comment on by Friday.

I had 32 unscheduled minutes to myself today. I spent it chasing down a counselor about an immediate student concern. I didn’t eat lunch.

Today was a normal day.

This. Yes, there are other jobs that experience X or Y. But nurses and teachers experience ALL of the above, AND require a degree. These people have options and they are exercising them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is teachers are treated like unpro crap and blamed for society's ills while being paid peanuts and getting no support from the admin or union.

That’s the reason. I can’t think of another profession requiring a specialized degree and license that pays so little

I can’t think of any other profession that gets over 3 months off per year.

Me neither since it's more like two months. Even that doesn't help. There is a shortage and it will get worse. Nobody seems to care to do anything about it. Eventually, schools will go to a model that already exists in places. One certified teacher will teach online while many classrooms will watch. They will employ monitors to watch the kids in person in the classrooms.

Summer alone is 2.5 months. There are lot more days/weeks off and vacations during the school year. It is a lot of time off

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HELP THOUGH, DOES IT? If these benefits are so awesome, people should be flocking to fill these positions but they aren't. We've had vacancies for over a year and not one person has even applied to most of them.

So…teachers should get paid a lot more for working a lot less?

Let’s be very, very clear about this:
Apparently these glorious summers aren’t a huge perk. WE ARE ALL STILL LEAVING. If you think these amazing summers are worth it, then apply to work as a teacher.

You clearly know the workload and the pay AREN’T worth it, because I don’t see you lining up for an interview. I don’t see anybody lining up for an interview!

I’m so sick of hearing “but you get all this time off.” I work 7 days a week. Yes, 7. I am never caught up. I spend my glorious unpaid summers you seem to crave in classes that I PAY FOR in order to keep my certification.

So just stop with the “all the time off” nonsense. Frankly, it’s very insulting.

Teachers haters irrationally hate teachers. There is literally nothing that you can explain to them that will help them understand.

No one hates teachers, but let’s not claim teachers are working 8+ hrs per day 7 days per week and 365 days per year. They don’t. In fact, it’s been discussed to pay teachers more and have them be year round employee and many teachers chimed in stating there isn’t enough work for them to do. No other profession gets as many vacation days as teachers do. Some people want to make a lot of money and seek a job that pays as such, but you’d be lucky to get. Some people would rather make less and have more time off and a schedule more closely aligned to the days off their children have. Short of taking FMLA leave, no other employee could take the same number of (unpaid) days off a teacher has without getting fired. The avg American only gets 11-15 paid vacation days, of which most people don’t even take for various reasons. That is comparable to the paid time off teachers get as well.

Teachers don’t get paid time off. They work 180 days and get paid got those 180 days.

My kids have 6 teachers/6 classes daily. There seems to be a least one sub per week in a class, sometimes more. Does this get deducted from their 180 days of paid working days?

Most teachers get 8-10 days of leave a year. So those teachers lost a day of leave, yes.

I think the PP is trying to point out that the days teachers don’t work (summer break, spring break, etc) aren’t actually leave. Teachers contracts are for 180-190 days a year. Breaks aren’t “leave”. They just aren’t work days. Teachers aren’t paid for them.

(And they often are work days. When I taught public school, my family was very mad at me for grading on thanksgiving. I had no choice. It had to get done.)

So teachers do get paid time off in addition to the unpaid breaks

Do you think of your weekends as “unpaid breaks”? I suspect you don’t.

So 10 days of leave for 190 days of work. That’s not a lot.

My husband gets 45 days of personal leave a year, including 2 additional weeks at Christmas. He also gets paid about three times more than a teacher and doesn’t work 40 hours a week. He can take just 1 hour of leave and doesn’t have to do anything to prepare for it. He has true flexibility.

I think you are trying to make the argument that teachers have it so good. They don’t. Period. That’s why the teacher shortage exists.

THIS!!!

+1


In September, I took a half day for a reoccurring doctor appointment and couldn’t get a sub. I was told to take a full day next time. Couple weeks ago, I took a full day although I had a 1 pm appointment. At 6:45, I got a call asking me to come in for a half a day.

It’s the shortages that are doing this to us. I now cover a coworker’s class 3-4 times a week. That’s where my planning time goes. It also means that I lose my time to sit in quiet, answering emails and collecting my thoughts.

One day I’m going to have a job that gives me the luxury to experience quiet. I’m also looking forward to going to the bathroom when I want, and getting to leave 20 minutes early without having to take 4 hours of leave and submit plans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple answer is teachers are treated like unpro crap and blamed for society's ills while being paid peanuts and getting no support from the admin or union.

That’s the reason. I can’t think of another profession requiring a specialized degree and license that pays so little

I can’t think of any other profession that gets over 3 months off per year.

Me neither since it's more like two months. Even that doesn't help. There is a shortage and it will get worse. Nobody seems to care to do anything about it. Eventually, schools will go to a model that already exists in places. One certified teacher will teach online while many classrooms will watch. They will employ monitors to watch the kids in person in the classrooms.

Summer alone is 2.5 months. There are lot more days/weeks off and vacations during the school year. It is a lot of time off

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO HELP THOUGH, DOES IT? If these benefits are so awesome, people should be flocking to fill these positions but they aren't. We've had vacancies for over a year and not one person has even applied to most of them.

So…teachers should get paid a lot more for working a lot less?

Let’s be very, very clear about this:
Apparently these glorious summers aren’t a huge perk. WE ARE ALL STILL LEAVING. If you think these amazing summers are worth it, then apply to work as a teacher.

You clearly know the workload and the pay AREN’T worth it, because I don’t see you lining up for an interview. I don’t see anybody lining up for an interview!

I’m so sick of hearing “but you get all this time off.” I work 7 days a week. Yes, 7. I am never caught up. I spend my glorious unpaid summers you seem to crave in classes that I PAY FOR in order to keep my certification.

So just stop with the “all the time off” nonsense. Frankly, it’s very insulting.

Teachers haters irrationally hate teachers. There is literally nothing that you can explain to them that will help them understand.

No one hates teachers, but let’s not claim teachers are working 8+ hrs per day 7 days per week and 365 days per year. They don’t. In fact, it’s been discussed to pay teachers more and have them be year round employee and many teachers chimed in stating there isn’t enough work for them to do. No other profession gets as many vacation days as teachers do. Some people want to make a lot of money and seek a job that pays as such, but you’d be lucky to get. Some people would rather make less and have more time off and a schedule more closely aligned to the days off their children have. Short of taking FMLA leave, no other employee could take the same number of (unpaid) days off a teacher has without getting fired. The avg American only gets 11-15 paid vacation days, of which most people don’t even take for various reasons. That is comparable to the paid time off teachers get as well.

Teachers don’t get paid time off. They work 180 days and get paid got those 180 days.

My kids have 6 teachers/6 classes daily. There seems to be a least one sub per week in a class, sometimes more. Does this get deducted from their 180 days of paid working days?

Most teachers get 8-10 days of leave a year. So those teachers lost a day of leave, yes.

I think the PP is trying to point out that the days teachers don’t work (summer break, spring break, etc) aren’t actually leave. Teachers contracts are for 180-190 days a year. Breaks aren’t “leave”. They just aren’t work days. Teachers aren’t paid for them.

(And they often are work days. When I taught public school, my family was very mad at me for grading on thanksgiving. I had no choice. It had to get done.)

So teachers do get paid time off in addition to the unpaid breaks

Do you think of your weekends as “unpaid breaks”? I suspect you don’t.

So 10 days of leave for 190 days of work. That’s not a lot.

My husband gets 45 days of personal leave a year, including 2 additional weeks at Christmas. He also gets paid about three times more than a teacher and doesn’t work 40 hours a week. He can take just 1 hour of leave and doesn’t have to do anything to prepare for it. He has true flexibility.

I think you are trying to make the argument that teachers have it so good. They don’t. Period. That’s why the teacher shortage exists.

Teachers make average pay, for average work. They have decent benefits, some of which are very unique and many find helpful for their lifestyle (having holidays, snow days, and summers mostly off). It isn’t the best job, but it is far from the worst. I find the constant complaining and demands for respect exhausted. Many many people have harder and more demanding jobs with less benefits. I’m sure we all could find a million complaints about our current jobs. Leave if you don’t like it, doesn’t bother me a bit.

Then why are you commenting on this thread?

Cause they want to be nasty. They don't have kids because any parent who cares education cares about the shortage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets caught up in why there is a shortage, but that's also been discussed ad nauseam. An equally pressing question is "what are school systems doing to recruit enough teachers to fully staff schools next year?" Because leaving that question until May is far too late.

They aren't doing anything except looking outside of the US. If they want to know what to do, they should be doing exit interviews and making the changes that they can make right now.

Bring in temporary workers? Interesting idea.