So how many IB are going to really be at Hardy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Math is hard for you.

There aren't enough IB families to justify building a brand new MS (or resurrecting a zombie one) in Ward 2. Either go to Hardy, go to Latin/Basis/DCI, go private, or move. There will be no "Special Snowflake MS" WOTP. Get used to it.

No, PP. Math is hard for you.

There are enough IB families to fill an new MS in Ward 2. They're just not interested in sending their kids to a "good enough" city-wide pseudo-magnet arts school masquerading as a neighborhood school to prove the point.

The IB numbers at Hardy are edging up. Hardy has a reasonable shot at being 70 to 80% IB in the next few years.

If the IB takeover of Hardy should fail, IB families will enlist their aid of their ANCs and councilmember to change DCPS policy at Hardy or to open a new MS. (Remember Mary Cheh's proposal a few years back?)

Either way, IB families will get a neighborhood "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP.

Mary Cheh's proposal was more recent than a few years back -- she made it in the past two years, and knows the pressure has not gone away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

[Anonymous]

If the IB takeover of Hardy should fail, IB families will enlist their aid of their ANCs and councilmember to change DCPS policy at Hardy or to open a new MS. (Remember Mary Cheh's proposal a few years back?)

Either way, IB families will get a neighborhood "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP.


Mary Cheh's proposal was more recent than a few years back -- she made it in the past two years, and knows the pressure has not gone away.

If anything the pressure has gotten worse. There's a baby boom across her ward and public school IB enrollment is up. Deal has gotten even more crowded. On top of that, Oyster and J. Eaton are being moved out of the Deal feeder, and Woodley Pk and Cleveland Park/McLean Gardens folks aren't happy about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Math is hard for you.

There aren't enough IB families to justify building a brand new MS (or resurrecting a zombie one) in Ward 2. Either go to Hardy, go to Latin/Basis/DCI, go private, or move. There will be no "Special Snowflake MS" WOTP. Get used to it.

No, PP. Math is hard for you.

There are enough IB families to fill an new MS in Ward 2. They're just not interested in sending their kids to a "good enough" city-wide pseudo-magnet arts school masquerading as a neighborhood school to prove the point.

The IB numbers at Hardy are edging up. Hardy has a reasonable shot at being 70 to 80% IB in the next few years.

If the IB takeover of Hardy should fail, IB families will enlist their aid of their ANCs and councilmember to change DCPS policy at Hardy or to open a new MS. (Remember Mary Cheh's proposal a few years back?)

Either way, IB families will get a neighborhood "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP.

It's scary how hard this is for you.

The reality is that as long as Hardy isn't full of IB kids, there is no justification for a new MS WotP. It. won't. happen.

Mary Cheh can propose all the legislation she wants but she's not the Mayor, never will be, and the rest of DC doesn't look like Ward 3. Try to imagine ANY other councilmember having to face his/her voters after supporting a vote for a new MS WotP. If you don't realize it's impossible, then you're not imagining hard enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course she's right. There is no room, no thought, no plan in the system whereby poor or OOB children are to be kept out of a school. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. And when maybe half of them overall can read on grade level? Nor should there be.

You need to get it into your heads that if you want to build a moat around your snowflake, then send him to private school. DCPS absolutely will not keep those bad OOB kids away from him. DCPSs job is educate everybody, and considering how badly they do that job, don't think for a second that DCPS is going to keep kids out of Hardy just for you.

I fully appreciate that DCPS will not for a second alter its plans to meet the educational needs of my DCs, PP. That's why I've given up on DCPS for MS and switched to a HRCS.

It seems like you are defining your DCs needs solely as "don't be near poor people." There is no reason DCPS can't educate the children of poor people and your snowflake together - in fact, if you see previous post, re: the experience of IB families at Hardy, they do that just fine. But no, DCPS won't and shouldn't isolate your child from whatever you think the ill-effects are of being around students that are not as wealthy or as white as your child.

Also, not to be tedious, but Hardy is in fact altering plans to meet the needs of IB families - they are adding extra differentiation, honors classes, and the SEM program. So again, the fact that you are ignoring these effforts makes it appear as if the only issue you care about is the "problem" of your snowflake rubbing elbows with poor brown kids.

As I posted earlier, my "snowflake" is at an HRCS for MS and thus rubs elbows with almost as many "poor brown kids" as the IB kids at Hardy. Is there an HRCS MS in DC without a large number of "poor brown kids," PP?

We did not choose HRCS because of demographics. We chose it for a number of other reasons, including our assessment that HRCS does not suffer from curriculum dilution or diminished expectations:

A combination of peer, parent and teacher influences works a fourth kind of pedagogical
deprivation at high-poverty schools, namely a dilution of the curriculum. Because it is the
curriculum that drives learning and should promote academic achievement, this is
potentially the most damaging aspect of the causal link between high-poverty schools and
inadequate outcomes. An inadequate curriculum undercuts even the bright, motivated
student who happens to attend a high-poverty school. All Together Now at 75 n.120
(citing Rebecca Barr and Robert Dreeben, How Schools Work (University of Chicago
Press 1983) and Christopher Jencks, A Reappraisal of the Most Controversial Education
Document of Our Time in New York Times Magazine (November, 1972)).

Over and above eroding teacher quality, diminished teacher expectations has its own
deleterious effect on the curriculum of high-poverty schools. Concentrated Poverty and
Educational Achievement at 6. From the outset, the bar is set lower for these students.
Educator Deborah Meier has found that "whether schools are public or private, the social
class of the students has been and continues to be the single most significant factor in
determining how a school works and the intellectual values it promotes." All Together
Now at 72. Schoolwork graded as a "C" in a low-poverty school would earn an "A" in a
high-poverty school. Students in low-poverty schools are more likely to be rewarded for
academic excellence; students in high-poverty schools for attendance. Id. at 72-73, 75
n.115. See generally Prospects at 84-91; Michael S. Knapp and Patrick M. Shields,
Reconceiving Academic Instruction for the Children of Poverty (Eisenhower Nat'l
Clearinghouse 1990) ("Reconceiving Academic Instruction").

Does Hardy suffer from these problems? I suspect that is does ("Hardy Middle School shines its brightest, however, with a music and art program that is unparalleled at the middle school level throughout the Washington, DC metro region."), but appreciate that other parents feel differently.

Ah yes, the old Hardy double standard. Strong music and arts programs at places like Deal, prestigious privates, etc? A great example of how these are wonderful schools catering to every aspect of successful and talented kids.

Strong music and arts programs at Hardy? Must mean that the school has a terrible academic program....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Does Hardy suffer from these problems? I suspect that is does ("Hardy Middle School shines its brightest, however, with a music and art program that is unparalleled at the middle school level throughout the Washington, DC metro region."), but appreciate that other parents feel differently.

Ah yes, the old Hardy double standard. Strong music and arts programs at places like Deal, prestigious privates, etc? A great example of how these are wonderful schools catering to every aspect of successful and talented kids.

Strong music and arts programs at Hardy? Must mean that the school has a terrible academic program....

Come on, PP. It's the strong music and arts program coupled with lackluster DC CAS results that's telling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Does Hardy suffer from these problems? I suspect that is does ("Hardy Middle School shines its brightest, however, with a music and art program that is unparalleled at the middle school level throughout the Washington, DC metro region."), but appreciate that other parents feel differently.

Ah yes, the old Hardy double standard. Strong music and arts programs at places like Deal, prestigious privates, etc? A great example of how these are wonderful schools catering to every aspect of successful and talented kids.

Strong music and arts programs at Hardy? Must mean that the school has a terrible academic program....

Come on, PP. It's the strong music and arts program coupled with lackluster DC CAS results that's telling.

Except that wasn't the point made by the PP - the point he or she was trying to make was that its strong music and arts program was ipso facto proof of a weak academic program. Hence, the Hardy double standard, where kids in uniforms that are good at music are presented as irrefutable proof that IB students can't get a good education there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

Unlikely. Parts of the catchment are too wealthy to ever consider Hardy. They either don't have children or their children attend private school. Whatever is left would be better served at Latin/Basis/DCI.

The demographics are staring you in the face and laughing. The real estate around Hardy is simply too expensive for the kind of young families that chose public middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Math is hard for you.

There aren't enough IB families to justify building a brand new MS (or resurrecting a zombie one) in Ward 2. Either go to Hardy, go to Latin/Basis/DCI, go private, or move. There will be no "Special Snowflake MS" WOTP. Get used to it.

No, PP. Math is hard for you.

There are enough IB families to fill an new MS in Ward 2. They're just not interested in sending their kids to a "good enough" city-wide pseudo-magnet arts school masquerading as a neighborhood school to prove the point.

The IB numbers at Hardy are edging up. Hardy has a reasonable shot at being 70 to 80% IB in the next few years.

If the IB takeover of Hardy should fail, IB families will enlist their aid of their ANCs and councilmember to change DCPS policy at Hardy or to open a new MS. (Remember Mary Cheh's proposal a few years back?)

Either way, IB families will get a neighborhood "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP.

It's scary how hard this is for you.

The reality is that as long as Hardy isn't full of IB kids, there is no justification for a new MS WotP. It. won't. happen.

Mary Cheh can propose all the legislation she wants but she's not the Mayor, never will be, and the rest of DC doesn't look like Ward 3. Try to imagine ANY other councilmember having to face his/her voters after supporting a vote for a new MS WotP. If you don't realize it's impossible, then you're not imagining hard enough.

You didn't read my post very well, PP. The "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP will in all likelihood be Hardy itself. However, should DCPS insist on keeping it's city-wide pseudo-magnet arts MS program at Hardy, then they will have to build a new "Special Snowflake" MS somewhere else.

Running a city-wide pseudo-magnet arts program out of the Hardy building and calling it a neighborhood school is getting old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Does Hardy suffer from these problems? I suspect that is does ("Hardy Middle School shines its brightest, however, with a music and art program that is unparalleled at the middle school level throughout the Washington, DC metro region."), but appreciate that other parents feel differently.

Ah yes, the old Hardy double standard. Strong music and arts programs at places like Deal, prestigious privates, etc? A great example of how these are wonderful schools catering to every aspect of successful and talented kids.

Strong music and arts programs at Hardy? Must mean that the school has a terrible academic program....

Come on, PP. It's the strong music and arts program coupled with lackluster DC CAS results that's telling.

And is the flowery, overly boosterish, tries-to-hard language (Hardy .... shines at its brightest" with a "unaparalleled" program).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

Math is hard for you.

There aren't enough IB families to justify building a brand new MS (or resurrecting a zombie one) in Ward 2. Either go to Hardy, go to Latin/Basis/DCI, go private, or move. There will be no "Special Snowflake MS" WOTP. Get used to it.

No, PP. Math is hard for you.

There are enough IB families to fill an new MS in Ward 2. They're just not interested in sending their kids to a "good enough" city-wide pseudo-magnet arts school masquerading as a neighborhood school to prove the point.

The IB numbers at Hardy are edging up. Hardy has a reasonable shot at being 70 to 80% IB in the next few years.

If the IB takeover of Hardy should fail, IB families will enlist their aid of their ANCs and councilmember to change DCPS policy at Hardy or to open a new MS. (Remember Mary Cheh's proposal a few years back?)

Either way, IB families will get a neighborhood "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP.

It's scary how hard this is for you.

The reality is that as long as Hardy isn't full of IB kids, there is no justification for a new MS WotP. It. won't. happen.

Mary Cheh can propose all the legislation she wants but she's not the Mayor, never will be, and the rest of DC doesn't look like Ward 3. Try to imagine ANY other councilmember having to face his/her voters after supporting a vote for a new MS WotP. If you don't realize it's impossible, then you're not imagining hard enough.

You didn't read my post very well, PP. The "Special Snowflake" MS WOTP will in all likelihood be Hardy itself. However, should DCPS insist on keeping it's city-wide pseudo-magnet arts MS program at Hardy, then they will have to build a new "Special Snowflake" MS somewhere else.

Running a city-wide pseudo-magnet arts program out of the Hardy building and calling it a neighborhood school is getting old.

Don't dare try to move the pseudo-magnet arts program out of the Hardy building. Just like with Duke Ellington, the Georgetown location is hallowed ground. Peggy Cafritz would never allow it to happen!

[Anonymous]

You idiots obviously haven't visited the school recently. The music and arts programs have been significantly deemphasized in recent years. They used to be requirements, but now they are not.*

This was done at the behest of IB parents - another example of a specific action taken by Hardy to appeal to IB parents that IB parents are now ignoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that a few years ago Hardy almost became the Coretta Scott King middle school of the arts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082001476.html

Back then Hardy was on a fast-track to becoming a city-wide magnet arts middle school -- an Ellington feeder. Things might have actually worked out better if that effort had been successful and the pretext of a neighborhood school had been dropped. Then DCPS would have had to do something for the in-boundary families, and everyone would have been happy.

This rehashing of old and irrelevent history doesn't do a thing to solve whatever problems current IB families have with Hardy. Not one thing.

Yes, we've done that one to death. Please let's not revive it in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So - we got an IB charter school parent complaining hardy is not good enough for the IB families, vs someone arguing it should not be for IB families.

In a thread asking HOW MANY IB are actually going - and the data we have so far - the best till count day - indicates a big increase in IB families (by either definition) - Hardy is well on its way to overcoming the prisoners' dilemma.

Do arguments always lag data? Is it that people get stuck in modes of arguing?

Who will be more unhappy when Hardy has flipped - the folks defending the idea that Hardy is "meant" to be a mostly OOB school, or the charter families defending their decision?

IB charter parent here. I will be very happy if/when Hardy flips. Our younger DC could attend the new and improved Hardy if the change is fast enough.

Even if Hardy doesn't flip in time for younger DC, a new and improved Hardy would probably increase the value of our house.

Unlikely. Parts of the catchment are too wealthy to ever consider Hardy. They either don't have children or their children attend private school. Whatever is left would be better served at Latin/Basis/DCI.

The demographics are staring you in the face and laughing. The real estate around Hardy is simply too expensive for the kind of young families that chose public middle schools.

Maybe the best solution is to let Hardy fulfill its desire to be the DC-wide magnet arts middle school, with a pipeline to Ellington. Then move the general academic track middle school back to an expanded, modernized on Foxhall Rd. where it once . That way, you avoid the political football of having three general purpose middle schools WOTP yet serve what are clearly identified needs.