Biden wants RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The government also has an interest in running well, which surpasses DC’s interests. As it should. Federal employees are not going to turn around CRE. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Private sector is hiring and figuring out ways to deal with the labor market that exists. The government needs to follow their lead if they want to retain or hire. Commercial real estate investors can pivot to the burbs. Everyone else did.

+ My private sector DH and neighbors are all still full time WAH. And they make a lot more than me. Making GS level employees like me go into DC even a few days a week isn’t going to save CRE or failing businesses. We don’t collectively make enough to keep DC afloat and the government risks losing good employees to private sector jobs. Even if they land in a private sector job that requires in office days, they’ll make more $ to counteract the commute.

WAH is basically the reason I’m at my job as a working mom of 3. This literally could be the difference of whether I stay in government, possibly even the workforce. (Before you ask, my kids were in daycare before the pandemic so commuting wasn’t as bad). But now that they are school age and their school has an extended day waitlist we haven’t been able to make it off for 3 years (employee shortage due to the post-COVID labor market) and they have early activities beginning around 5 pm, I have really come to rely on WAH. (DH also WAH but can’t start/end his day early like me). I know I’m not alone and collectively the government could lose a lot of qualified employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, if I need to subsidize DC with my income, you’re going to have to give me an incentive to do so. Flexible work hours or higher pay. No one cares about dry cleaners in DC. Those businesses left, many of them moved to the suburbs anyway. People shifted a WHILE ago. Business creation is UP. Just not in cities. The economy is actually doing great right now, even without people commuting in DC on the daily.

I think we are talking past eachother.

This sounds harsh, but your incentive to do so is that your job requires you to be in a certain place for a certain amount of time. You are free to spend the money or not.

Several banks DID fail and several banks are at risk in part due to CRE. The closure of multiple small businesses in a concentrated area WILL have secondary effects, and immediate effects on those business owners. A reduction in overall tax revenue in major downtown areas including DC will also have impacts over time. The economy is a lot more complex than many are making it out to be.

And again, I am certainly in favor of flexible working hours and minimal onsite presence. I'm just not blind to all of the factors at play or myopic about it. It isn't only about whether I personally buy a sandwich or get my own personal tasks done well at home.

You have an extremely narrow view of what my options are. If my job requires it, I will leave. See? This is what the issue is right now.

The businesses closed already. They aren’t coming back.

Oh of course you can leave! Certainly.

But I’m talking about what considerations the govt has to weigh in setting overall broad policy. You have an individual choice and they set broad policy that takes into account a lot of interests. The he fact that many in the workforce would be disengaged, disgruntled, or leave is one of the many things they need to take into account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, if I need to subsidize DC with my income, you’re going to have to give me an incentive to do so. Flexible work hours or higher pay. No one cares about dry cleaners in DC. Those businesses left, many of them moved to the suburbs anyway. People shifted a WHILE ago. Business creation is UP. Just not in cities. The economy is actually doing great right now, even without people commuting in DC on the daily.

I think we are talking past eachother.

This sounds harsh, but your incentive to do so is that your job requires you to be in a certain place for a certain amount of time. You are free to spend the money or not.

Several banks DID fail and several banks are at risk in part due to CRE. The closure of multiple small businesses in a concentrated area WILL have secondary effects, and immediate effects on those business owners. A reduction in overall tax revenue in major downtown areas including DC will also have impacts over time. The economy is a lot more complex than many are making it out to be.

And again, I am certainly in favor of flexible working hours and minimal onsite presence. I'm just not blind to all of the factors at play or myopic about it. It isn't only about whether I personally buy a sandwich or get my own personal tasks done well at home.

You have an extremely narrow view of what my options are. If my job requires it, I will leave. See? This is what the issue is right now.

The businesses closed already. They aren’t coming back.

Oh of course you can leave! Certainly.

But I’m talking about what considerations the govt has to weigh in setting overall broad policy. You have an individual choice and they set broad policy that takes into account a lot of interests. The he fact that many in the workforce would be disengaged, disgruntled, or leave is one of the many things they need to take into account.

I can't disagree with what you said. Just don't imply it's fed govt workers job to fix local govts' issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The government also has an interest in running well, which surpasses DC’s interests. As it should. Federal employees are not going to turn around CRE. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Private sector is hiring and figuring out ways to deal with the labor market that exists. The government needs to follow their lead if they want to retain or hire. Commercial real estate investors can pivot to the burbs. Everyone else did.

+ My private sector DH and neighbors are all still full time WAH. And they make a lot more than me. Making GS level employees like me go into DC even a few days a week isn’t going to save CRE or failing businesses. We don’t collectively make enough to keep DC afloat and the government risks losing good employees to private sector jobs. Even if they land in a private sector job that requires in office days, they’ll make more $ to counteract the commute.

WAH is basically the reason I’m at my job as a working mom of 3. This literally could be the difference of whether I stay in government, possibly even the workforce. (Before you ask, my kids were in daycare before the pandemic so commuting wasn’t as bad). But now that they are school age and their school has an extended day waitlist we haven’t been able to make it off for 3 years (employee shortage due to the post-COVID labor market) and they have early activities beginning around 5 pm, I have really come to rely on WAH. (DH also WAH but can’t start/end his day early like me). I know I’m not alone and collectively the government could lose a lot of qualified employees.

Someone else would happily do your job. None of us are owed or entitled to federal employment.

[Anonymous]

Whatever your thoughts on this issue, stop being so cavalier about what’s happening downtown. Lots of small business owners going out of business. Our beloved dry cleaner had to close. Small lunch counters closed. Optometrist struggling. These are human beings trying to make a living like all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, if I need to subsidize DC with my income, you’re going to have to give me an incentive to do so. Flexible work hours or higher pay. No one cares about dry cleaners in DC. Those businesses left, many of them moved to the suburbs anyway. People shifted a WHILE ago. Business creation is UP. Just not in cities. The economy is actually doing great right now, even without people commuting in DC on the daily.

I think we are talking past eachother.

This sounds harsh, but your incentive to do so is that your job requires you to be in a certain place for a certain amount of time. You are free to spend the money or not.

Several banks DID fail and several banks are at risk in part due to CRE. The closure of multiple small businesses in a concentrated area WILL have secondary effects, and immediate effects on those business owners. A reduction in overall tax revenue in major downtown areas including DC will also have impacts over time. The economy is a lot more complex than many are making it out to be.

And again, I am certainly in favor of flexible working hours and minimal onsite presence. I'm just not blind to all of the factors at play or myopic about it. It isn't only about whether I personally buy a sandwich or get my own personal tasks done well at home.

Noone is blind or myopic about it. People just don't agree it's their job to fix the problem.

It is the government’s job. And one thing in their power, a lever they have to pull, is the overall location both permanently and on a day-to-day basis of where federal employees do their work.

Govt sets policy, employees have a variety of choices to make in light of that policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, if I need to subsidize DC with my income, you’re going to have to give me an incentive to do so. Flexible work hours or higher pay. No one cares about dry cleaners in DC. Those businesses left, many of them moved to the suburbs anyway. People shifted a WHILE ago. Business creation is UP. Just not in cities. The economy is actually doing great right now, even without people commuting in DC on the daily.

I think we are talking past eachother.

This sounds harsh, but your incentive to do so is that your job requires you to be in a certain place for a certain amount of time. You are free to spend the money or not.

Several banks DID fail and several banks are at risk in part due to CRE. The closure of multiple small businesses in a concentrated area WILL have secondary effects, and immediate effects on those business owners. A reduction in overall tax revenue in major downtown areas including DC will also have impacts over time. The economy is a lot more complex than many are making it out to be.

And again, I am certainly in favor of flexible working hours and minimal onsite presence. I'm just not blind to all of the factors at play or myopic about it. It isn't only about whether I personally buy a sandwich or get my own personal tasks done well at home.

You have an extremely narrow view of what my options are. If my job requires it, I will leave. See? This is what the issue is right now.

The businesses closed already. They aren’t coming back.

Oh of course you can leave! Certainly.

But I’m talking about what considerations the govt has to weigh in setting overall broad policy. You have an individual choice and they set broad policy that takes into account a lot of interests. The he fact that many in the workforce would be disengaged, disgruntled, or leave is one of the many things they need to take into account.

I can't disagree with what you said. Just don't imply it's fed govt workers job to fix local govts' issues.

My first post on this topic explicitly said it was not individual workers’ duty to fix it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever your thoughts on this issue, stop being so cavalier about what’s happening downtown. Lots of small business owners going out of business. Our beloved dry cleaner had to close. Small lunch counters closed. Optometrist struggling. These are human beings trying to make a living like all of us.

That's how economy works though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever your thoughts on this issue, stop being so cavalier about what’s happening downtown. Lots of small business owners going out of business. Our beloved dry cleaner had to close. Small lunch counters closed. Optometrist struggling. These are human beings trying to make a living like all of us.

That's how economy works though.

True. But another aspect of how it works is the government propping people and businesses up. During the pandemic the government provided direct funds to small businesses and even checks to individuals to keep everybody afloat. In this case, they would just be making policy totally within their control to adjust incentives. Seems like a much smaller intervention than many that the public at large has been willing to accept in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The government also has an interest in running well, which surpasses DC’s interests. As it should. Federal employees are not going to turn around CRE. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Private sector is hiring and figuring out ways to deal with the labor market that exists. The government needs to follow their lead if they want to retain or hire. Commercial real estate investors can pivot to the burbs. Everyone else did.

+ My private sector DH and neighbors are all still full time WAH. And they make a lot more than me. Making GS level employees like me go into DC even a few days a week isn’t going to save CRE or failing businesses. We don’t collectively make enough to keep DC afloat and the government risks losing good employees to private sector jobs. Even if they land in a private sector job that requires in office days, they’ll make more $ to counteract the commute.

WAH is basically the reason I’m at my job as a working mom of 3. This literally could be the difference of whether I stay in government, possibly even the workforce. (Before you ask, my kids were in daycare before the pandemic so commuting wasn’t as bad). But now that they are school age and their school has an extended day waitlist we haven’t been able to make it off for 3 years (employee shortage due to the post-COVID labor market) and they have early activities beginning around 5 pm, I have really come to rely on WAH. (DH also WAH but can’t start/end his day early like me). I know I’m not alone and collectively the government could lose a lot of qualified employees.

Someone else would happily do your job. None of us are owed or entitled to federal employment.

You are absolutely wrong about this. Yes, someone without my qualifications and experience would be happy to have the money. But they can’t do the job. So there’s the rub.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The government also has an interest in running well, which surpasses DC’s interests. As it should. Federal employees are not going to turn around CRE. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Private sector is hiring and figuring out ways to deal with the labor market that exists. The government needs to follow their lead if they want to retain or hire. Commercial real estate investors can pivot to the burbs. Everyone else did.

+ My private sector DH and neighbors are all still full time WAH. And they make a lot more than me. Making GS level employees like me go into DC even a few days a week isn’t going to save CRE or failing businesses. We don’t collectively make enough to keep DC afloat and the government risks losing good employees to private sector jobs. Even if they land in a private sector job that requires in office days, they’ll make more $ to counteract the commute.

WAH is basically the reason I’m at my job as a working mom of 3. This literally could be the difference of whether I stay in government, possibly even the workforce. (Before you ask, my kids were in daycare before the pandemic so commuting wasn’t as bad). But now that they are school age and their school has an extended day waitlist we haven’t been able to make it off for 3 years (employee shortage due to the post-COVID labor market) and they have early activities beginning around 5 pm, I have really come to rely on WAH. (DH also WAH but can’t start/end his day early like me). I know I’m not alone and collectively the government could lose a lot of qualified employees.

Someone else would happily do your job. None of us are owed or entitled to federal employment.

You are absolutely wrong about this. Yes, someone without my qualifications and experience would be happy to have the money. But they can’t do the job. So there’s the rub.

So move on, if you don’t like the federal government coming back to the office in DC please go do something else. Many of us are glad to be back in the office and think this is good policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever your thoughts on this issue, stop being so cavalier about what’s happening downtown. Lots of small business owners going out of business. Our beloved dry cleaner had to close. Small lunch counters closed. Optometrist struggling. These are human beings trying to make a living like all of us.

Fake business sucking off govt dollars, no sympathy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The government also has an interest in running well, which surpasses DC’s interests. As it should. Federal employees are not going to turn around CRE. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Private sector is hiring and figuring out ways to deal with the labor market that exists. The government needs to follow their lead if they want to retain or hire. Commercial real estate investors can pivot to the burbs. Everyone else did.

+ My private sector DH and neighbors are all still full time WAH. And they make a lot more than me. Making GS level employees like me go into DC even a few days a week isn’t going to save CRE or failing businesses. We don’t collectively make enough to keep DC afloat and the government risks losing good employees to private sector jobs. Even if they land in a private sector job that requires in office days, they’ll make more $ to counteract the commute.

WAH is basically the reason I’m at my job as a working mom of 3. This literally could be the difference of whether I stay in government, possibly even the workforce. (Before you ask, my kids were in daycare before the pandemic so commuting wasn’t as bad). But now that they are school age and their school has an extended day waitlist we haven’t been able to make it off for 3 years (employee shortage due to the post-COVID labor market) and they have early activities beginning around 5 pm, I have really come to rely on WAH. (DH also WAH but can’t start/end his day early like me). I know I’m not alone and collectively the government could lose a lot of qualified employees.

Someone else would happily do your job. None of us are owed or entitled to federal employment.

You are absolutely wrong about this. Yes, someone without my qualifications and experience would be happy to have the money. But they can’t do the job. So there’s the rub.

There is truth to this. We are struggling to hire already because by the time our byzantine hiring process allows us to make an offer, most of the qualified candidates have already taken other jobs. The most qualified candidates are people with graduate degrees and experience who often aren't willing to move to DC for a GS-11 or 12 salary. If you require more than the current minimum of in-office time, you're going to have to replace those experienced people making weekly trips from other locations with people just out of school who don't need to worry about dual careers or the costs that come with having a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The government also has an interest in running well, which surpasses DC’s interests. As it should. Federal employees are not going to turn around CRE. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Private sector is hiring and figuring out ways to deal with the labor market that exists. The government needs to follow their lead if they want to retain or hire. Commercial real estate investors can pivot to the burbs. Everyone else did.

+ My private sector DH and neighbors are all still full time WAH. And they make a lot more than me. Making GS level employees like me go into DC even a few days a week isn’t going to save CRE or failing businesses. We don’t collectively make enough to keep DC afloat and the government risks losing good employees to private sector jobs. Even if they land in a private sector job that requires in office days, they’ll make more $ to counteract the commute.

WAH is basically the reason I’m at my job as a working mom of 3. This literally could be the difference of whether I stay in government, possibly even the workforce. (Before you ask, my kids were in daycare before the pandemic so commuting wasn’t as bad). But now that they are school age and their school has an extended day waitlist we haven’t been able to make it off for 3 years (employee shortage due to the post-COVID labor market) and they have early activities beginning around 5 pm, I have really come to rely on WAH. (DH also WAH but can’t start/end his day early like me). I know I’m not alone and collectively the government could lose a lot of qualified employees.

Someone else would happily do your job. None of us are owed or entitled to federal employment.

You are absolutely wrong about this. Yes, someone without my qualifications and experience would be happy to have the money. But they can’t do the job. So there’s the rub.

So move on, if you don’t like the federal government coming back to the office in DC please go do something else. Many of us are glad to be back in the office and think this is good policy.

I will. As Will others. And then you e got a massive problem. Stop putting your head in the sand. A one size fits all solution — everybody back 6 days a PP— is not going to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The government also has an interest in running well, which surpasses DC’s interests. As it should. Federal employees are not going to turn around CRE. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Private sector is hiring and figuring out ways to deal with the labor market that exists. The government needs to follow their lead if they want to retain or hire. Commercial real estate investors can pivot to the burbs. Everyone else did.

+ My private sector DH and neighbors are all still full time WAH. And they make a lot more than me. Making GS level employees like me go into DC even a few days a week isn’t going to save CRE or failing businesses. We don’t collectively make enough to keep DC afloat and the government risks losing good employees to private sector jobs. Even if they land in a private sector job that requires in office days, they’ll make more $ to counteract the commute.

WAH is basically the reason I’m at my job as a working mom of 3. This literally could be the difference of whether I stay in government, possibly even the workforce. (Before you ask, my kids were in daycare before the pandemic so commuting wasn’t as bad). But now that they are school age and their school has an extended day waitlist we haven’t been able to make it off for 3 years (employee shortage due to the post-COVID labor market) and they have early activities beginning around 5 pm, I have really come to rely on WAH. (DH also WAH but can’t start/end his day early like me). I know I’m not alone and collectively the government could lose a lot of qualified employees.

Someone else would happily do your job. None of us are owed or entitled to federal employment.

You are absolutely wrong about this. Yes, someone without my qualifications and experience would be happy to have the money. But they can’t do the job. So there’s the rub.

There is truth to this. We are struggling to hire already because by the time our byzantine hiring process allows us to make an offer, most of the qualified candidates have already taken other jobs. The most qualified candidates are people with graduate degrees and experience who often aren't willing to move to DC for a GS-11 or 12 salary. If you require more than the current minimum of in-office time, you're going to have to replace those experienced people making weekly trips from other locations with people just out of school who don't need to worry about dual careers or the costs that come with having a family.

I agree that recruitment and retention is a challenge with RTO. I also think that the federal government has entire agencies that have all of the data on federal employment, private employment, job markets, and trends. They look at the aggregate and across a lot of dimensions. They know, at least better than all of us, what the impact has been and will be. It isn’t like they aren’t aware when they set policy. Presumably they concluded that the benefit of bringing federal employees back to the office somewhat more frequently outweighs the cons.