Roe v Wade struck down

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I predict very soon most college educated, professional women won’t even consider taking jobs in places like Texas and Florida. This will lead to a serious brain drain in red states.

There are plenty of college educated professional women who are pro choice and will be happy to take those jobs. They’ll also be taxed less for every dollar they earn.

U mad bro?

I know so so so many highly educated pro-life women.

Until they have an unplanned pregnancy.

Pro life and highly educated here. I had two unplanned pregnancies. Two sons, both are now adults, and their leftist father and family tried to get me to abort.

It’s fantastic that you had a choice. Other women will not be so lucky as you were from now on.

From today in Missouri a little girl who is gang raped is forced to take the pregnancy to term. A pregnant woman cannot get the medical care she needs in the form of an abortion until there is a medical emergency and her life is in danger. So if her waters break at 16 weeks but there is a heartbeat, she may have to wait days until she develops a life threatening infection instead of getting help right away. Way to be pro life.

Of course the part about left wingers trying to push me to abortion, because THEY felt I wasn’t ready at 32 (owned my own house, master’s degree, etc). To them, it wasn’t MY choice. I was being selfish, etc. Amazing how the abuse was handed my way when I didn’t do what they wanted. Sounds familiar. All the examples here are ‘may, might’ situations. It’s made up

And YET -- they were not able to force you to get an abortion, because there was no law codifying their right to force you to. Amazing how that works. Who cares what they said. Sorry they were horrible to you. But you were able to make YOUR choice. Now you want to deny that right to others.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: This is not something I thought I would ever actually see.

Kudos to the SCOTUS on this. Always should have been up to the states.

But why exactly? I'm just looking for the rationale why it should be a state decision and not a federal one. I can't have children anymore so just curious for the next generation.

There is no Constitutional right to an abortion. The Constitution enshrines a very small number of fundamental enumerated and unenumerated rights. It doesn’t protect everything that’s good.

In the midst of a massive social and political fight over abortion, Roe and Casey created an obvious fiction: a Constitutional right to “privacy” that included a right to abortion. This removed the issue from the usual political process, and did irreparable damage to the Court and the country. Suddenly the Court was a 100% political institution.

Today’s decision delivers the issue back to the political process, where it always should have been. I am basically pro choice. I also recognize that someone isn’t crazy, or a bigot or a woman hater, if they really feel like aborting a fetus (particularly one that is viable, can feel pain, etc.) is murder or something close to it. It’s a complicated issue. There is going to have to be a compromise that leaves both sides unhappy. And the debate will continue, people will make arguments, mobilize votes. That’s what’s supposed to happen on hotly contested policy questions in a democracy.

So basically the constitution didn't and still doesn't consider having an abortion ending a life? The constitution enshrines life as far as I know. Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness.

No idea what your post is even trying to articulate. But the Constitution is different from the Declaration of Independence.

This kind of demonstrates the point though. This illiterate PP is free to have an opinion about abortion rights. But trying to support that opinion in the context of Constitutional law is a joke. You people have no clue what you’re talking about.

True I don't know but I started my request asking why this was a state's rights verses federal decision so I pretty much said I was ignorant from the beginning and never gave an opinion. I'm not a supreme court judge nor do I really have an opinion on abortion either way. I think more children and women should be cared for, but I don't know the law what should be allowed. Pro lifers seem to think it's murder so they would want a federal ruling I'd think that it was taking away a life and not a state's rights. I don't really understand why it was federal for roe-v wade and now why states have the right to decide. I don't really understand the new or old law on this. I'm mainly curious why it was determined that this be a state decision rather than a federal one.

Roe held that there was a constitutional right to an abortion. Applied to the whole country/federal.

This SCOTUS is now saying there is no constitutional right to an abortion. This means that the states can legislate any way they want. So it’s now a state by state issue.

Thank you. And originally it was a constitutional right because?

Because all people are guaranteed liberty under the constitution, which can only be abridged by the state given compelling interests. The states now need no reason to infringe upon your rights. Great job conservatives.

The right to reproduce is the most basic right of all, next to the right to live. Everything else is meaningless. Abortion is baked into the human experience. It’s not surprising to me the Founders took it for granted. In fact, until very recently this obsession with fetuses was a fringe Catholic belief only.

And not even really a Catholic belief. When my grandmother had a miscarriage in 1931, did anyone act like it was a death of a child? No. When my mom had one in 1966, did anyone? No. It's only very recently that Catholics have gone in for those "angel in heaven" and prayer services for miscarried fetuses. All that stuff came *after* the massive anti-abortion movement, which was thoroughly astrotufed by Republicans who needed a rallying cry post-Nixon to rebuild the party.

^^^This. It's all manufactured.

Way more embryos are miscarried than ever get gestated and born. If embryos and fetuses were sacred human life created by a supreme being, then that supreme being sure is a sick monster. And don't come back with the "god has a plan" nonsense. It makes absolutely no sense to create billions of embryos and fetuses, say they have souls and call them sacred life, and then have them wash down the toilet from natural circumstances, often before a woman even knows there was a conception. You anti-abortionists have no rejoinder to this philosophical conundrum, which is why you always conveniently ignore it.

I have an issue with abortion not from a philosophical perspective but because the fetus can feel pain during the procedure.

No, it can’t. Where do you get this crap from?

There is some evidence that fetuses may feel pain, but it is entirely unknowable. If this is an honest objection, it can be addressed with fetal analgesics during the procedure, but I sense it isn't a good faith objection.

Of course it’s not. How do you experience pain if you don’t have a fully developed brain??

The somatosensory cortex may be developed enough to feel pain.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: This is not something I thought I would ever actually see.

Kudos to the SCOTUS on this. Always should have been up to the states.

But why exactly? I'm just looking for the rationale why it should be a state decision and not a federal one. I can't have children anymore so just curious for the next generation.

There is no Constitutional right to an abortion. The Constitution enshrines a very small number of fundamental enumerated and unenumerated rights. It doesn’t protect everything that’s good.

In the midst of a massive social and political fight over abortion, Roe and Casey created an obvious fiction: a Constitutional right to “privacy” that included a right to abortion. This removed the issue from the usual political process, and did irreparable damage to the Court and the country. Suddenly the Court was a 100% political institution.

Today’s decision delivers the issue back to the political process, where it always should have been. I am basically pro choice. I also recognize that someone isn’t crazy, or a bigot or a woman hater, if they really feel like aborting a fetus (particularly one that is viable, can feel pain, etc.) is murder or something close to it. It’s a complicated issue. There is going to have to be a compromise that leaves both sides unhappy. And the debate will continue, people will make arguments, mobilize votes. That’s what’s supposed to happen on hotly contested policy questions in a democracy.

So basically the constitution didn't and still doesn't consider having an abortion ending a life? The constitution enshrines life as far as I know. Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness.

No idea what your post is even trying to articulate. But the Constitution is different from the Declaration of Independence.

This kind of demonstrates the point though. This illiterate PP is free to have an opinion about abortion rights. But trying to support that opinion in the context of Constitutional law is a joke. You people have no clue what you’re talking about.

True I don't know but I started my request asking why this was a state's rights verses federal decision so I pretty much said I was ignorant from the beginning and never gave an opinion. I'm not a supreme court judge nor do I really have an opinion on abortion either way. I think more children and women should be cared for, but I don't know the law what should be allowed. Pro lifers seem to think it's murder so they would want a federal ruling I'd think that it was taking away a life and not a state's rights. I don't really understand why it was federal for roe-v wade and now why states have the right to decide. I don't really understand the new or old law on this. I'm mainly curious why it was determined that this be a state decision rather than a federal one.

Roe held that there was a constitutional right to an abortion. Applied to the whole country/federal.

This SCOTUS is now saying there is no constitutional right to an abortion. This means that the states can legislate any way they want. So it’s now a state by state issue.

Thank you. And originally it was a constitutional right because?

Because all people are guaranteed liberty under the constitution, which can only be abridged by the state given compelling interests. The states now need no reason to infringe upon your rights. Great job conservatives.

The right to reproduce is the most basic right of all, next to the right to live. Everything else is meaningless. Abortion is baked into the human experience. It’s not surprising to me the Founders took it for granted. In fact, until very recently this obsession with fetuses was a fringe Catholic belief only.

And not even really a Catholic belief. When my grandmother had a miscarriage in 1931, did anyone act like it was a death of a child? No. When my mom had one in 1966, did anyone? No. It's only very recently that Catholics have gone in for those "angel in heaven" and prayer services for miscarried fetuses. All that stuff came *after* the massive anti-abortion movement, which was thoroughly astrotufed by Republicans who needed a rallying cry post-Nixon to rebuild the party.

^^^This. It's all manufactured.

Way more embryos are miscarried than ever get gestated and born. If embryos and fetuses were sacred human life created by a supreme being, then that supreme being sure is a sick monster. And don't come back with the "god has a plan" nonsense. It makes absolutely no sense to create billions of embryos and fetuses, say they have souls and call them sacred life, and then have them wash down the toilet from natural circumstances, often before a woman even knows there was a conception. You anti-abortionists have no rejoinder to this philosophical conundrum, which is why you always conveniently ignore it.

I have an issue with abortion not from a philosophical perspective but because the fetus can feel pain during the procedure.

No, it can’t. Where do you get this crap from?

Yes, it can. I’m a neuroscientist. The first system to develop is the nervous system. Before the heart. It feels the pain.

Cool story, bro.

Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/201429

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: This is not something I thought I would ever actually see.

Kudos to the SCOTUS on this. Always should have been up to the states.

But why exactly? I'm just looking for the rationale why it should be a state decision and not a federal one. I can't have children anymore so just curious for the next generation.

There is no Constitutional right to an abortion. The Constitution enshrines a very small number of fundamental enumerated and unenumerated rights. It doesn’t protect everything that’s good.

In the midst of a massive social and political fight over abortion, Roe and Casey created an obvious fiction: a Constitutional right to “privacy” that included a right to abortion. This removed the issue from the usual political process, and did irreparable damage to the Court and the country. Suddenly the Court was a 100% political institution.

Today’s decision delivers the issue back to the political process, where it always should have been. I am basically pro choice. I also recognize that someone isn’t crazy, or a bigot or a woman hater, if they really feel like aborting a fetus (particularly one that is viable, can feel pain, etc.) is murder or something close to it. It’s a complicated issue. There is going to have to be a compromise that leaves both sides unhappy. And the debate will continue, people will make arguments, mobilize votes. That’s what’s supposed to happen on hotly contested policy questions in a democracy.

So basically the constitution didn't and still doesn't consider having an abortion ending a life? The constitution enshrines life as far as I know. Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness.

No idea what your post is even trying to articulate. But the Constitution is different from the Declaration of Independence.

This kind of demonstrates the point though. This illiterate PP is free to have an opinion about abortion rights. But trying to support that opinion in the context of Constitutional law is a joke. You people have no clue what you’re talking about.

True I don't know but I started my request asking why this was a state's rights verses federal decision so I pretty much said I was ignorant from the beginning and never gave an opinion. I'm not a supreme court judge nor do I really have an opinion on abortion either way. I think more children and women should be cared for, but I don't know the law what should be allowed. Pro lifers seem to think it's murder so they would want a federal ruling I'd think that it was taking away a life and not a state's rights. I don't really understand why it was federal for roe-v wade and now why states have the right to decide. I don't really understand the new or old law on this. I'm mainly curious why it was determined that this be a state decision rather than a federal one.

Roe held that there was a constitutional right to an abortion. Applied to the whole country/federal.

This SCOTUS is now saying there is no constitutional right to an abortion. This means that the states can legislate any way they want. So it’s now a state by state issue.

Thank you. And originally it was a constitutional right because?

Because all people are guaranteed liberty under the constitution, which can only be abridged by the state given compelling interests. The states now need no reason to infringe upon your rights. Great job conservatives.

The right to reproduce is the most basic right of all, next to the right to live. Everything else is meaningless. Abortion is baked into the human experience. It’s not surprising to me the Founders took it for granted. In fact, until very recently this obsession with fetuses was a fringe Catholic belief only.

And not even really a Catholic belief. When my grandmother had a miscarriage in 1931, did anyone act like it was a death of a child? No. When my mom had one in 1966, did anyone? No. It's only very recently that Catholics have gone in for those "angel in heaven" and prayer services for miscarried fetuses. All that stuff came *after* the massive anti-abortion movement, which was thoroughly astrotufed by Republicans who needed a rallying cry post-Nixon to rebuild the party.

^^^This. It's all manufactured.

Way more embryos are miscarried than ever get gestated and born. If embryos and fetuses were sacred human life created by a supreme being, then that supreme being sure is a sick monster. And don't come back with the "god has a plan" nonsense. It makes absolutely no sense to create billions of embryos and fetuses, say they have souls and call them sacred life, and then have them wash down the toilet from natural circumstances, often before a woman even knows there was a conception. You anti-abortionists have no rejoinder to this philosophical conundrum, which is why you always conveniently ignore it.

I have an issue with abortion not from a philosophical perspective but because the fetus can feel pain during the procedure.

No, it can’t. Where do you get this crap from?

There is some evidence that fetuses may feel pain, but it is entirely unknowable. If this is an honest objection, it can be addressed with fetal analgesics during the procedure, but I sense it isn't a good faith objection.

Of course it’s not. How do you experience pain if you don’t have a fully developed brain??

The somatosensory cortex may be developed enough to feel pain.

I didn’t say “feel” I said experience. It’s a reflex not an experience. You can’t experience pain without awareness.

[Anonymous]

Corporations need to speak up and leave states that have banned abortions. Offering to pay for women to travel out of state doesn’t cut it. No reason for women’s privacy to be violated to uphold an extreme religious doctrine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro life and highly educated here. I had two unplanned pregnancies. Two sons, both are now adults, and their leftist father and family tried to get me to abort.

Highly educated but can’t figure out that you got to make your own choice here, the same choice you want to take away from women. Since forced birthers like you have trouble with this, imagine that the “leftist father” with whom you had intercourse with (outside the bonds of marriage) had been allowed to force you to abort.

(And you twice conceived with a man who didn’t want children? Odd that you, according to the forced birth dogma I’ve been subjected to, didn’t take any kind of precautions or personal responsibility.)

Abortion isn’t banned. It’s now up to the states to decide what they want to make law, and what they don’t. If the leftist father was able to make me abort, the same people screaming now would be supporting him and not my right to choose to keep the kids. And I was married at the time.

[Anonymous]

Seriously where does it stop? I have 2 kidneys, you need one. We happen to be perfect matches. Am I going to be forced to saving your life? No? Then why should a pregnant woman be forced to save a fetus?

[Anonymous]

If we follow the science…https://www.sciencenews.org/article/abortion-roe-v-wade-pregnancy-biology-supreme-court-ruling?fbclid=IwAR22nK55N-awFXaopb4S2WUvhftMY-QOIfIJZF2urfXuDb5eyNBJE0zagDU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They finally did it

My heart is broken for all those women who will lose their lives as a result of this woman-hating decision by a majority of men on the court.

It's the legacy of Trump, so thank him for it. And while you're at it, thank Mitch McConnell for keeping Merrick Garland off the high court.

Once I get my blood pressure under control, I'm going to do whatever I can to fight this. The majority of Americans want legal abortion, so this is only a temporary setback, but it's going to cost lives and tremendous hardship, pain and suffering for all sort of families who will no longer be able to access safe abortions.

Shame on the court. The Roberts Court will live in infamy for its self-immolation at the feet of political power.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I predict very soon most college educated, professional women won’t even consider taking jobs in places like Texas and Florida. This will lead to a serious brain drain in red states.

There are plenty of college educated professional women who are pro choice and will be happy to take those jobs. They’ll also be taxed less for every dollar they earn.

U mad bro?

I know so so so many highly educated pro-life women.

Until they have an unplanned pregnancy.

Pro life and highly educated here. I had two unplanned pregnancies. Two sons, both are now adults, and their leftist father and family tried to get me to abort.

It’s fantastic that you had a choice. Other women will not be so lucky as you were from now on.

From today in Missouri a little girl who is gang raped is forced to take the pregnancy to term. A pregnant woman cannot get the medical care she needs in the form of an abortion until there is a medical emergency and her life is in danger. So if her waters break at 16 weeks but there is a heartbeat, she may have to wait days until she develops a life threatening infection instead of getting help right away. Way to be pro life.

Of course the part about left wingers trying to push me to abortion, because THEY felt I wasn’t ready at 32 (owned my own house, master’s degree, etc). To them, it wasn’t MY choice. I was being selfish, etc. Amazing how the abuse was handed my way when I didn’t do what they wanted. Sounds familiar. All the examples here are ‘may, might’ situations. It’s made up

And YET -- they were not able to force you to get an abortion, because there was no law codifying their right to force you to. Amazing how that works. Who cares what they said. Sorry they were horrible to you. But you were able to make YOUR choice. Now you want to deny that right to others.

APPLAUSE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pro life and highly educated here. I had two unplanned pregnancies. Two sons, both are now adults, and their leftist father and family tried to get me to abort.

Highly educated but can’t figure out that you got to make your own choice here, the same choice you want to take away from women. Since forced birthers like you have trouble with this, imagine that the “leftist father” with whom you had intercourse with (outside the bonds of marriage) had been allowed to force you to abort.

(And you twice conceived with a man who didn’t want children? Odd that you, according to the forced birth dogma I’ve been subjected to, didn’t take any kind of precautions or personal responsibility.)

Abortion isn’t banned. It’s now up to the states to decide what they want to make law, and what they don’t. If the leftist father was able to make me abort, the same people screaming now would be supporting him and not my right to choose to keep the kids. And I was married at the time.

Do you not understand what “leaving it to the states” means?

It means it will be banned in certain states. It means a federal ban is possible. No one advocates for forced abortion in this forum. Maybe you’re thinking about China.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: This is not something I thought I would ever actually see.

Kudos to the SCOTUS on this. Always should have been up to the states.

But why exactly? I'm just looking for the rationale why it should be a state decision and not a federal one. I can't have children anymore so just curious for the next generation.

There is no Constitutional right to an abortion. The Constitution enshrines a very small number of fundamental enumerated and unenumerated rights. It doesn’t protect everything that’s good.

In the midst of a massive social and political fight over abortion, Roe and Casey created an obvious fiction: a Constitutional right to “privacy” that included a right to abortion. This removed the issue from the usual political process, and did irreparable damage to the Court and the country. Suddenly the Court was a 100% political institution.

Today’s decision delivers the issue back to the political process, where it always should have been. I am basically pro choice. I also recognize that someone isn’t crazy, or a bigot or a woman hater, if they really feel like aborting a fetus (particularly one that is viable, can feel pain, etc.) is murder or something close to it. It’s a complicated issue. There is going to have to be a compromise that leaves both sides unhappy. And the debate will continue, people will make arguments, mobilize votes. That’s what’s supposed to happen on hotly contested policy questions in a democracy.

So basically the constitution didn't and still doesn't consider having an abortion ending a life? The constitution enshrines life as far as I know. Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness.

No idea what your post is even trying to articulate. But the Constitution is different from the Declaration of Independence.

This kind of demonstrates the point though. This illiterate PP is free to have an opinion about abortion rights. But trying to support that opinion in the context of Constitutional law is a joke. You people have no clue what you’re talking about.

True I don't know but I started my request asking why this was a state's rights verses federal decision so I pretty much said I was ignorant from the beginning and never gave an opinion. I'm not a supreme court judge nor do I really have an opinion on abortion either way. I think more children and women should be cared for, but I don't know the law what should be allowed. Pro lifers seem to think it's murder so they would want a federal ruling I'd think that it was taking away a life and not a state's rights. I don't really understand why it was federal for roe-v wade and now why states have the right to decide. I don't really understand the new or old law on this. I'm mainly curious why it was determined that this be a state decision rather than a federal one.

Roe held that there was a constitutional right to an abortion. Applied to the whole country/federal.

This SCOTUS is now saying there is no constitutional right to an abortion. This means that the states can legislate any way they want. So it’s now a state by state issue.

Thank you. And originally it was a constitutional right because?

Because all people are guaranteed liberty under the constitution, which can only be abridged by the state given compelling interests. The states now need no reason to infringe upon your rights. Great job conservatives.

The right to reproduce is the most basic right of all, next to the right to live. Everything else is meaningless. Abortion is baked into the human experience. It’s not surprising to me the Founders took it for granted. In fact, until very recently this obsession with fetuses was a fringe Catholic belief only.

And not even really a Catholic belief. When my grandmother had a miscarriage in 1931, did anyone act like it was a death of a child? No. When my mom had one in 1966, did anyone? No. It's only very recently that Catholics have gone in for those "angel in heaven" and prayer services for miscarried fetuses. All that stuff came *after* the massive anti-abortion movement, which was thoroughly astrotufed by Republicans who needed a rallying cry post-Nixon to rebuild the party.

^^^This. It's all manufactured.

Way more embryos are miscarried than ever get gestated and born. If embryos and fetuses were sacred human life created by a supreme being, then that supreme being sure is a sick monster. And don't come back with the "god has a plan" nonsense. It makes absolutely no sense to create billions of embryos and fetuses, say they have souls and call them sacred life, and then have them wash down the toilet from natural circumstances, often before a woman even knows there was a conception. You anti-abortionists have no rejoinder to this philosophical conundrum, which is why you always conveniently ignore it.

I have an issue with abortion not from a philosophical perspective but because the fetus can feel pain during the procedure.

No, it can’t. Where do you get this crap from?

There is some evidence that fetuses may feel pain, but it is entirely unknowable. If this is an honest objection, it can be addressed with fetal analgesics during the procedure, but I sense it isn't a good faith objection.

Of course it’s not. How do you experience pain if you don’t have a fully developed brain??

Because there have been pain studies of preterm infants before 25 weeks who do seem to indicate pain responses. But again, we can't know and while I think it is wrong to dismiss the possibility because it makes you [general] look rigid and unwilling to accept new info, it is not a strong argument because of how the procedure is performed AND the use of analgesics to dull pain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've still never been able to understand why all these bigoted states want to create laws to essentially guarantee there will be more poor and minority children in their state? Children they definitely do not want to pay to feed, house, or educate.

Cannon fodder. Reliably undereducated, miserable red voters. Future Medicaid beneficiaries - which Florida Republican was defrauding the federal government to the tune of millions? It’s a whole racket.

And don’t forget that these six regressives are Christianists. They embrace an Old Testament religion (but with the Jewish introspection and general menschy quality that humanizes a book so old). They love causing pain, misery and creating chaos. They are the religious tyranny that the founders warned us about.

+1 This right here. It's a religious issue. I grew up in the church and both my mom and I have forsaken it. Honestly the pain and division and harm religion has caused is truly astonishing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yay! Now time for congress to listen to the American people and write some laws...

This would be the most expedient way to make abortion safe and legal in all 50 states. But, pray tell, how do you propose to get congress to accomplish this? They just managed to pass a wimpy gun control bill after the slaughter of schoolchildren in Texas (that bright-red, gun-loving state). Tell us, and we'll do it, if it can be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read beyond the first several pages so apologies if this has been brought up.

Health clinics on federal land. Privately funded abortions. Possible? Feasible?

Biden would never do this. He’s too worried what Mitch might think.
A Biden supporter who is grateful Trump is out but disappointed Biden can’t rise to the occasion