ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

I think whats really happening is that there are some corrupt coaches that have taken payoffs and dont know how to handle the parents if they need to move the kid to be competitive.

Sorry... I know a coach who is worried about deal hes made. This is happening.

[Anonymous]

One thing I thought was interesting about the CalSouth call is that none of the club and league directors mentioned trapped players as a reason for switching to SY.

I bet is is because everyone in attence was littles oriented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that was an embarassing pod for Cal South. So many people who are uniformed or clearly trying to protect their player vs doing whats best for soccer at large.

Lavers and Crew have a much deeper understanding of the situation. Any rational reasonable person can see the need for a change to SY. All of the excuses are at the Dog ate my homework level.

I cant wait tit hear from US Club and ECNL this week.

You didn't like hearing opinions and reality outside of this echo chamber thread.

I was hopeful there would be actual well thought out discussion. what I herd was ecxcusses from people trying to protect their monopoly. THe anger is real on the BY side.

C'mon people use facts and logic!!

On the call they called out that BY is better for elite players and leagues because it's the international standard for that type of play. They sounded mysteriously like facts and logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No decision is finalized yet but most league admins our leaning towards SY cutoffs for 26/27 but again nothing set in stone or decided.

Some club admins definitely hate the idea of change do not want to deal with it. But it seems like the final comments is the league reps think SY is better long term for the game.

One director did bring up that BY is pushing out Q4 kids and most teams do not have any players which is not good because we are losing a large group of kids that should be playing soccer.

ARRRGGH! Hope they at least acknowledge that they'll be lamenting the loss of Q2 players under SY unless some BY leagues continue and/or something new is done to minimize RAE -- otherwise they just mostly solve for trapped years.

Someone did say something along the lines of their will always be Q4 kids, who are smaller and younger regardless if SY/BY. So the reason to change shouldn’t be to help younger players because there is always going to be younger players. The reason to change is to grow the participation of the game. Which they seem to think SY will keep more kids involved because they will be playing with kids in their same grade.

Many say there will always be Q4 kids, and SY/BY doesn't affect RAE. But it's clearly not the same. Under BY, more Q4 kids quit, or never play club at all. Why? The obvious answer, is the misalignment leading to trapped player issues and a social split particularly at younger ages. So SY Q4 will still be underrepresented, but not by as much as BY Q4. There's so much argument on here about whether this should be labeled an "RAE" problem, a "participation" problem, or a "trapped player" problem. All of these labels could be accurate. It could be labeled an "RAE" problem because it causes further underrepresentation at the younger end of the range, but some reserve that label only for effects due to physical/mental development, whereas this is more of an administration effect. But at its core, everyone is identifying the same problem - misalignment with school year. Glad to see it will likely get fixed in 26.

It's funny how you write multiple paragraphs about nonsense then at the last sentence you slip in that SY will address RAE.

Sorry that's not how it works. You're just shifting who gets affected by RAE from Dec birthdays to July birthdays.

Either get educated or stop trying to manipulate. SY does nothing to address RAE.

You misread the PP.

No I didn't pp tried to say that "many things" including RAE are addressed by changing to SY.

This is not true and RAE is the same under BY and SY

See, you misread it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that was an embarassing pod for Cal South. So many people who are uniformed or clearly trying to protect their player vs doing whats best for soccer at large.

Lavers and Crew have a much deeper understanding of the situation. Any rational reasonable person can see the need for a change to SY. All of the excuses are at the Dog ate my homework level.

I cant wait tit hear from US Club and ECNL this week.

You didn't like hearing opinions and reality outside of this echo chamber thread.

I was hopeful there would be actual well thought out discussion. what I herd was ecxcusses from people trying to protect their monopoly. THe anger is real on the BY side.

C'mon people use facts and logic!!

On the call they called out that BY is better for elite players and leagues because it's the international standard for that type of play. They sounded mysteriously like facts and logic.

Listen to the last ECNL podcast.

"The level of play all of that stuff is is hogwash to put it scientifically, and that really this is about what people think is best for the player overall the biggest hurdle is disruption yeah and you know, I think we all understand because we've talked about it ad nauseum, but the disruption of listen the reason I say that is because you still have so many of these people who say, well, if you're, if you're aspiring to be a top level pro or a national team player, you have to play birth year. It's just complete garbage. Um, it has actually nothing to do with that. That's just an attempt to weaponize age groups.'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think whats really happening is that there are some corrupt coaches that have taken payoffs and dont know how to handle the parents if they need to move the kid to be competitive.

Sorry... I know a coach who is worried about deal hes made. This is happening.

Or the coaches aren't necessary corrupt but more unethical in running pay to play in a tit for tat of extra training for extra play. If the parents of the kids getting demoted are willing to pay for extras are replaced by those who don't, that is going to hurt the coaches wallets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that was an embarassing pod for Cal South. So many people who are uniformed or clearly trying to protect their player vs doing whats best for soccer at large.

Lavers and Crew have a much deeper understanding of the situation. Any rational reasonable person can see the need for a change to SY. All of the excuses are at the Dog ate my homework level.

I cant wait tit hear from US Club and ECNL this week.

You didn't like hearing opinions and reality outside of this echo chamber thread.

I was hopeful there would be actual well thought out discussion. what I herd was ecxcusses from people trying to protect their monopoly. THe anger is real on the BY side.

C'mon people use facts and logic!!

What you have to understand, what the trapped player parents have to understand, what the SY or BY people have to understand is that no one cares. All of official soccer could care less. This is not a big issue for any of them. ECNL floated something on a podcast. But they do not care enough to force something. They are saving that for something they care about and need. We are approaching 500 pages. People have passion on the issues. But no one in authority cares nor do they see an uprising or revolt. To the extent they even know or are aware they think people who would argue about this are crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that was an embarassing pod for Cal South. So many people who are uniformed or clearly trying to protect their player vs doing whats best for soccer at large.

Lavers and Crew have a much deeper understanding of the situation. Any rational reasonable person can see the need for a change to SY. All of the excuses are at the Dog ate my homework level.

I cant wait tit hear from US Club and ECNL this week.

You didn't like hearing opinions and reality outside of this echo chamber thread.

I was hopeful there would be actual well thought out discussion. what I herd was ecxcusses from people trying to protect their monopoly. THe anger is real on the BY side.

C'mon people use facts and logic!!

What you have to understand, what the trapped player parents have to understand, what the SY or BY people have to understand is that no one cares. All of official soccer could care less. This is not a big issue for any of them. ECNL floated something on a podcast. But they do not care enough to force something. They are saving that for something they care about and need. We are approaching 500 pages. People have passion on the issues. But no one in authority cares nor do they see an uprising or revolt. To the extent they even know or are aware they think people who would argue about this are crazy.

What kind of nihilistic drivel is this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No decision is finalized yet but most league admins our leaning towards SY cutoffs for 26/27 but again nothing set in stone or decided.

Some club admins definitely hate the idea of change do not want to deal with it. But it seems like the final comments is the league reps think SY is better long term for the game.

One director did bring up that BY is pushing out Q4 kids and most teams do not have any players which is not good because we are losing a large group of kids that should be playing soccer.

ARRRGGH! Hope they at least acknowledge that they'll be lamenting the loss of Q2 players under SY unless some BY leagues continue and/or something new is done to minimize RAE -- otherwise they just mostly solve for trapped years.

Someone did say something along the lines of their will always be Q4 kids, who are smaller and younger regardless if SY/BY. So the reason to change shouldn’t be to help younger players because there is always going to be younger players. The reason to change is to grow the participation of the game. Which they seem to think SY will keep more kids involved because they will be playing with kids in their same grade.

Many say there will always be Q4 kids, and SY/BY doesn't affect RAE. But it's clearly not the same. Under BY, more Q4 kids quit, or never play club at all. Why? The obvious answer, is the misalignment leading to trapped player issues and a social split particularly at younger ages. So SY Q4 will still be underrepresented, but not by as much as BY Q4. There's so much argument on here about whether this should be labeled an "RAE" problem, a "participation" problem, or a "trapped player" problem. All of these labels could be accurate. It could be labeled an "RAE" problem because it causes further underrepresentation at the younger end of the range, but some reserve that label only for effects due to physical/mental development, whereas this is more of an administration effect. But at its core, everyone is identifying the same problem - misalignment with school year. Glad to see it will likely get fixed in 26.

Not sure why Q4 would still be underrepresented. Those players will now be among the oldest. It's the Q2 players who will likely face the bigger uphill journey thanks to RAE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I heard on the recording was that everyone agreed that BY made more sense for the top elite players. Primarily because this is how their peers around the world function. There was a specific call out about Academy systems. The SY proponents primarily said that for lower level teams there is a benefit for kids to be able to play with classmates in school. They extrapolated that SY would bring more players to the game because all kids on the team would be in the same grade at school. One coach said SY is a waste of time because they go through tryouts every year and which school you attend has nothing to do with who gets selected for the team.

My takeaway is that elite soccer likes BY and rec soccer likes SY. There's no one size fits all. This explains why MLSN doesn't want to change to SY. If ECNL switches to SY on the girls side it will allow a BY Academy type league to open up shop.

I did hear some of the people say BY was better for elite but I think the last guy who spoke said that our elite teams have statistically done worse since a switch to BY. Also what do they determine as elite it seemed like just national team members and pros? Or is ECNL/MLSN elite?
It was hard to keep track of who was a SOCAL board member or not. But someone else said they considered starting with only the younger ages and that it wouldn’t be a bigger nightmare for clubs and that it would be a full change for all ages.

My perception of "elite" leagues is national team & pro not Ecnl/mlsn. Basically when you get to stop having to pay to play a sport and actually get paid..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I heard on the recording was that everyone agreed that BY made more sense for the top elite players. Primarily because this is how their peers around the world function. There was a specific call out about Academy systems. The SY proponents primarily said that for lower level teams there is a benefit for kids to be able to play with classmates in school. They extrapolated that SY would bring more players to the game because all kids on the team would be in the same grade at school. One coach said SY is a waste of time because they go through tryouts every year and which school you attend has nothing to do with who gets selected for the team.

My takeaway is that elite soccer likes BY and rec soccer likes SY. There's no one size fits all. This explains why MLSN doesn't want to change to SY. If ECNL switches to SY on the girls side it will allow a BY Academy type league to open up shop.

I did hear some of the people say BY was better for elite but I think the last guy who spoke said that our elite teams have statistically done worse since a switch to BY. Also what do they determine as elite it seemed like just national team members and pros? Or is ECNL/MLSN elite?
It was hard to keep track of who was a SOCAL board member or not. But someone else said they considered starting with only the younger ages and that it wouldn’t be a bigger nightmare for clubs and that it would be a full change for all ages.

My perception of "elite" leagues is national team & pro not Ecnl/mlsn. Basically when you get to stop having to pay to play a sport and actually get paid..

Yeah, YNT is elitist.

MLSN, ECNL is elite;
GA, ECRL, NAL, NL is high level competitive travel;
EDP, etc. is travel
and local is rec.

Will be interesting if USSF tries to force BY on the elite level of the "ecosystem."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I heard on the recording was that everyone agreed that BY made more sense for the top elite players. Primarily because this is how their peers around the world function. There was a specific call out about Academy systems. The SY proponents primarily said that for lower level teams there is a benefit for kids to be able to play with classmates in school. They extrapolated that SY would bring more players to the game because all kids on the team would be in the same grade at school. One coach said SY is a waste of time because they go through tryouts every year and which school you attend has nothing to do with who gets selected for the team.

My takeaway is that elite soccer likes BY and rec soccer likes SY. There's no one size fits all. This explains why MLSN doesn't want to change to SY. If ECNL switches to SY on the girls side it will allow a BY Academy type league to open up shop.

I did hear some of the people say BY was better for elite but I think the last guy who spoke said that our elite teams have statistically done worse since a switch to BY. Also what do they determine as elite it seemed like just national team members and pros? Or is ECNL/MLSN elite?
It was hard to keep track of who was a SOCAL board member or not. But someone else said they considered starting with only the younger ages and that it wouldn’t be a bigger nightmare for clubs and that it would be a full change for all ages.

My perception of "elite" leagues is national team & pro not Ecnl/mlsn. Basically when you get to stop having to pay to play a sport and actually get paid..

Yeah, YNT is elitist.

MLSN, ECNL is elite;
GA, ECRL, NAL, NL is high level competitive travel;
EDP, etc. is travel
and local is rec.

Will be interesting if USSF tries to force BY on the elite level of the "ecosystem."

Also interesting will be if this thread quibbles with your ranking, especially in regards to GA. My 02: Probably more reasonable to put it in-between lines 1-2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I heard on the recording was that everyone agreed that BY made more sense for the top elite players. Primarily because this is how their peers around the world function. There was a specific call out about Academy systems. The SY proponents primarily said that for lower level teams there is a benefit for kids to be able to play with classmates in school. They extrapolated that SY would bring more players to the game because all kids on the team would be in the same grade at school. One coach said SY is a waste of time because they go through tryouts every year and which school you attend has nothing to do with who gets selected for the team.

My takeaway is that elite soccer likes BY and rec soccer likes SY. There's no one size fits all. This explains why MLSN doesn't want to change to SY. If ECNL switches to SY on the girls side it will allow a BY Academy type league to open up shop.

I did hear some of the people say BY was better for elite but I think the last guy who spoke said that our elite teams have statistically done worse since a switch to BY. Also what do they determine as elite it seemed like just national team members and pros? Or is ECNL/MLSN elite?
It was hard to keep track of who was a SOCAL board member or not. But someone else said they considered starting with only the younger ages and that it wouldn’t be a bigger nightmare for clubs and that it would be a full change for all ages.

My perception of "elite" leagues is national team & pro not Ecnl/mlsn. Basically when you get to stop having to pay to play a sport and actually get paid..

Yeah, YNT is elitist.

MLSN, ECNL is elite;
GA, ECRL, NAL, NL is high level competitive travel;
EDP, etc. is travel
and local is rec.

Will be interesting if USSF tries to force BY on the elite level of the "ecosystem."

Also interesting will be if this thread quibbles with your ranking, especially in regards to GA. My 02: Probably more reasonable to put it in-between lines 1-2.

Based on outcomes post HS ECNL is higher than GA. With that said in America and focus on college ECNL aligning with SY makes more sense. They started this fight no way they will be forced into BY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I heard on the recording was that everyone agreed that BY made more sense for the top elite players. Primarily because this is how their peers around the world function. There was a specific call out about Academy systems. The SY proponents primarily said that for lower level teams there is a benefit for kids to be able to play with classmates in school. They extrapolated that SY would bring more players to the game because all kids on the team would be in the same grade at school. One coach said SY is a waste of time because they go through tryouts every year and which school you attend has nothing to do with who gets selected for the team.

My takeaway is that elite soccer likes BY and rec soccer likes SY. There's no one size fits all. This explains why MLSN doesn't want to change to SY. If ECNL switches to SY on the girls side it will allow a BY Academy type league to open up shop.

I did hear some of the people say BY was better for elite but I think the last guy who spoke said that our elite teams have statistically done worse since a switch to BY. Also what do they determine as elite it seemed like just national team members and pros? Or is ECNL/MLSN elite?
It was hard to keep track of who was a SOCAL board member or not. But someone else said they considered starting with only the younger ages and that it wouldn’t be a bigger nightmare for clubs and that it would be a full change for all ages.

My perception of "elite" leagues is national team & pro not Ecnl/mlsn. Basically when you get to stop having to pay to play a sport and actually get paid..

Yeah, YNT is elitist.

MLSN, ECNL is elite;
GA, ECRL, NAL, NL is high level competitive travel;
EDP, etc. is travel
and local is rec.

Will be interesting if USSF tries to force BY on the elite level of the "ecosystem."

Also interesting will be if this thread quibbles with your ranking, especially in regards to GA. My 02: Probably more reasonable to put it in-between lines 1-2.

Of course there will be a quibble. This is a pro ecnl thread! The numbers are not even close on the girls side. I recently saw something where of the 550 or so division 1 freshman girls scholarships went to ecnl players with only like 17 outside of those going to "non-ecnl" girls. Number's were staggering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I heard on the recording was that everyone agreed that BY made more sense for the top elite players. Primarily because this is how their peers around the world function. There was a specific call out about Academy systems. The SY proponents primarily said that for lower level teams there is a benefit for kids to be able to play with classmates in school. They extrapolated that SY would bring more players to the game because all kids on the team would be in the same grade at school. One coach said SY is a waste of time because they go through tryouts every year and which school you attend has nothing to do with who gets selected for the team.

My takeaway is that elite soccer likes BY and rec soccer likes SY. There's no one size fits all. This explains why MLSN doesn't want to change to SY. If ECNL switches to SY on the girls side it will allow a BY Academy type league to open up shop.

I did hear some of the people say BY was better for elite but I think the last guy who spoke said that our elite teams have statistically done worse since a switch to BY. Also what do they determine as elite it seemed like just national team members and pros? Or is ECNL/MLSN elite?
It was hard to keep track of who was a SOCAL board member or not. But someone else said they considered starting with only the younger ages and that it wouldn’t be a bigger nightmare for clubs and that it would be a full change for all ages.

My perception of "elite" leagues is national team & pro not Ecnl/mlsn. Basically when you get to stop having to pay to play a sport and actually get paid..

Yeah, YNT is elitist.

MLSN, ECNL is elite;
GA, ECRL, NAL, NL is high level competitive travel;
EDP, etc. is travel
and local is rec.

Will be interesting if USSF tries to force BY on the elite level of the "ecosystem."

Also interesting will be if this thread quibbles with your ranking, especially in regards to GA. My 02: Probably more reasonable to put it in-between lines 1-2.

Of course there will be a quibble. This is a pro ecnl thread! The numbers are not even close on the girls side. I recently saw something where of the 550 or so division 1 freshman girls scholarships went to ecnl players with only like 17 outside of those going to "non-ecnl" girls. Number's were staggering.