the Key/ASFS building switch...

[Anonymous]

This has gone on a bizarre tangent. When we build new schools, they should reflect the latest in architectural innovation. Fleet will be gorgeous and I guarantee that no one will be bitching about that school. And seriously - Sciebce Focus - can’t you just stop already. Are you demanding that your 150 FARMS kids should get their own special funds? It’s great that 150 ED kids are at ASFS, but that is a drop in the bucket and you do have a huge amount of privilege. To deny that fact is absurd and shows how out of touch your community is.

We have many very old schools throughout the county. South AND North. It is too bad that we are having to spend so much of our funding on building new schools instead of being able to fix basic issues at our older schools.

So - give that, can we please consider not wasting precious funds on things like moving a science lab that clearly should be considered a donation to APS - or to change school names and signature. I’d rather have AC that works or holes that are plugged up so that we don’t have mice infestations. That’s the reality. Vanity projects can be paid for by PTA or private donors.

And as for playground envy. Grow up. There is a standard budget given to a school when it is built for playground. Of course, there are more choices now and probably at better. Prices. Each school gets funds to refresh their playground at regular intervals. I think it is about every 15-20 years, so it may take a while, but there is a standard policy. Some schools have done cool things for free like bringing in sections from trees that have been felled. Kids can have fun with lots of different materials. They are more creative than adults and don’t necessarily need to have a formal play structure to have fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, any parent in the world of rec soccer has used the discovery playground! It’s great and we use it often. My child has never been invited to any science program at ASFS, so I don’t really know what it has to offer. Again, private money offering unique educational opportunities in a public school not available to residents assigned to other schools. Are they building crappy new schools elsewhere in the school district? I think those are the only other facilities you can compare with discovery in a conversation about equity.

Fleet will nice, but not nearly as nice as Discovery. There are market reasons at play, but I don’t think APS should be let off the hook. They ignored/ cooked enrollment projections. Anyone with half a brain would have used that opportunity to get a school built economically. Now we have more and more kids and a shrunken commercial real estate base. Chadwick should be shown the door.
Also, this discussion is trivial compared to the crisis of SES diversity south Arlington is facing. Discovery was built. Bad decisions were made. Move on.

My kids do not go to Discovery, but I am tired of people implying that that school community drove APS’ extravagant decisions there. I know you did not, but I hear it too often on this board. Most of those families did not want to leave their old schools. APS was solely responsibly for the design decisions, including the slide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, any parent in the world of rec soccer has used the discovery playground! It’s great and we use it often. My child has never been invited to any science program at ASFS, so I don’t really know what it has to offer. Again, private money offering unique educational opportunities in a public school not available to residents assigned to other schools. Are they building crappy new schools elsewhere in the school district? I think those are the only other facilities you can compare with discovery in a conversation about equity.

Fleet will nice, but not nearly as nice as Discovery. There are market reasons at play, but I don’t think APS should be let off the hook. They ignored/ cooked enrollment projections. Anyone with half a brain would have used that opportunity to get a school built economically. Now we have more and more kids and a shrunken commercial real estate base. Chadwick should be shown the door.
Also, this discussion is trivial compared to the crisis of SES diversity south Arlington is facing. Discovery was built. Bad decisions were made. Move on.

Exactly. That is the inequality. On a much bigger scale than a "lab" with a mural and hanging planets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, any parent in the world of rec soccer has used the discovery playground! It’s great and we use it often. My child has never been invited to any science program at ASFS, so I don’t really know what it has to offer. Again, private money offering unique educational opportunities in a public school not available to residents assigned to other schools. Are they building crappy new schools elsewhere in the school district? I think those are the only other facilities you can compare with discovery in a conversation about equity.

Fleet will nice, but not nearly as nice as Discovery. There are market reasons at play, but I don’t think APS should be let off the hook. They ignored/ cooked enrollment projections. Anyone with half a brain would have used that opportunity to get a school built economically. Now we have more and more kids and a shrunken commercial real estate base. Chadwick should be shown the door.
Also, this discussion is trivial compared to the crisis of SES diversity south Arlington is facing. Discovery was built. Bad decisions were made. Move on.

Exactly. That is the inequality. On a much bigger scale than a "lab" with a mural and hanging planets.

The inequality that matters is the crunch south Arlington is facing. They are overwhelmed by poverty. This discussion is trivial. Fleet will be nice enough. Now balance enrollment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, any parent in the world of rec soccer has used the discovery playground! It’s great and we use it often. My child has never been invited to any science program at ASFS, so I don’t really know what it has to offer. Again, private money offering unique educational opportunities in a public school not available to residents assigned to other schools. Are they building crappy new schools elsewhere in the school district? I think those are the only other facilities you can compare with discovery in a conversation about equity.

Fleet will nice, but not nearly as nice as Discovery. There are market reasons at play, but I don’t think APS should be let off the hook. They ignored/ cooked enrollment projections. Anyone with half a brain would have used that opportunity to get a school built economically. Now we have more and more kids and a shrunken commercial real estate base. Chadwick should be shown the door.
Also, this discussion is trivial compared to the crisis of SES diversity south Arlington is facing. Discovery was built. Bad decisions were made. Move on.

Exactly. That is the inequality. On a much bigger scale than a "lab" with a mural and hanging planets.

The inequality that matters is the crunch south Arlington is facing. They are overwhelmed by poverty. This discussion is trivial. Fleet will be nice enough. Now balance enrollment.

But the discussing of ASFS and the Key swap is not trivial BECAUSE of the inequality between SA and NA. The swap is a prime example of APS pandering to the wealthy few and/or making dumb decisions and trying to cover up such dumb decisions a few years down the road. It sounds like the School Board should have voted before doing a $200K upgrade to one of APS' facilities, but no one bothered to follow the right protocols (I mean, after all, it's just a little PTA fundraiser!). But it's not like the Board didn't know--Noah Simon was on the Board when his wife passed and the impetus to raise money in her honor for the lab was started . So even if the School Board didn't officially approve it, they tacitly did because no one was going to say hey, maybe it's not a wise decision to make such an extravagant upgrade when our enrollment is up and we're facing a capacity crisis and may need that space for classrooms. Their colleague and friend had literally just lost his wife. So now what does APS do? Instead of leaving the lab be, it wants to rip it out and try and recreate the lab in a new space-- causing extra and unnecessary expenses when we have a $43 million budget shortfall. Any why is it doing this? Some say to appease the Lyon Village parents who paid for the lab and want it in their new neighborhood school. Others say because they need the lab space for classrooms which would never happen if ASFS stays where it is. Either way, it's ridiculous that APS allowed the school to make this expensive upgrade (whether rightly or wrongly), and then just scrap the whole thing-- sure some parts can move but a lot of the money that went into the lab was for design and wiring for that specific space. That's now all going to be nil. It's all just such a waste-- a waste of the money raised, a waste of APS' time and resources dealing with the fallout of the swap, a waste of taxpayer dollars, etc. Those is SA should absolutely be outraged by the time, money and energy spent by APS on these two schools. Why, at the very least, has no one suggested that APS just leave the lab where it is-- everyone on this board says the lab ain't anything special and ASFS is not a "program" entitled to special consideration. Why not let the immersion kids enjoy the lab? Maybe they don't want it, but maybe they do, or maybe they at least want the option when they move in to decide what to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, any parent in the world of rec soccer has used the discovery playground! It’s great and we use it often. My child has never been invited to any science program at ASFS, so I don’t really know what it has to offer. Again, private money offering unique educational opportunities in a public school not available to residents assigned to other schools. Are they building crappy new schools elsewhere in the school district? I think those are the only other facilities you can compare with discovery in a conversation about equity.

Fleet will nice, but not nearly as nice as Discovery. There are market reasons at play, but I don’t think APS should be let off the hook. They ignored/ cooked enrollment projections. Anyone with half a brain would have used that opportunity to get a school built economically. Now we have more and more kids and a shrunken commercial real estate base. Chadwick should be shown the door.
Also, this discussion is trivial compared to the crisis of SES diversity south Arlington is facing. Discovery was built. Bad decisions were made. Move on.

Exactly. That is the inequality. On a much bigger scale than a "lab" with a mural and hanging planets.

The inequality that matters is the crunch south Arlington is facing. They are overwhelmed by poverty. This discussion is trivial. Fleet will be nice enough. Now balance enrollment.

But the discussing of ASFS and the Key swap is not trivial BECAUSE of the inequality between SA and NA. The swap is a prime example of APS pandering to the wealthy few and/or making dumb decisions and trying to cover up such dumb decisions a few years down the road. It sounds like the School Board should have voted before doing a $200K upgrade to one of APS' facilities, but no one bothered to follow the right protocols (I mean, after all, it's just a little PTA fundraiser!). But it's not like the Board didn't know--Noah Simon was on the Board when his wife passed and the impetus to raise money in her honor for the lab was started . So even if the School Board didn't officially approve it, they tacitly did because no one was going to say hey, maybe it's not a wise decision to make such an extravagant upgrade when our enrollment is up and we're facing a capacity crisis and may need that space for classrooms. Their colleague and friend had literally just lost his wife. So now what does APS do? Instead of leaving the lab be, it wants to rip it out and try and recreate the lab in a new space-- causing extra and unnecessary expenses when we have a $43 million budget shortfall. Any why is it doing this? Some say to appease the Lyon Village parents who paid for the lab and want it in their new neighborhood school. Others say because they need the lab space for classrooms which would never happen if ASFS stays where it is. Either way, it's ridiculous that APS allowed the school to make this expensive upgrade (whether rightly or wrongly), and then just scrap the whole thing-- sure some parts can move but a lot of the money that went into the lab was for design and wiring for that specific space. That's now all going to be nil. It's all just such a waste-- a waste of the money raised, a waste of APS' time and resources dealing with the fallout of the swap, a waste of taxpayer dollars, etc. Those is SA should absolutely be outraged by the time, money and energy spent by APS on these two schools. Why, at the very least, has no one suggested that APS just leave the lab where it is-- everyone on this board says the lab ain't anything special and ASFS is not a "program" entitled to special consideration. Why not let the immersion kids enjoy the lab? Maybe they don't want it, but maybe they do, or maybe they at least want the option when they move in to decide what to do with it.

They can't leave the lab. The Science Focus building is already too small for the Key enrollment so they need the 2 classrooms to be classrooms and not labs. I think its one of the reasons that the Superintendent is moving the schools as he's wanted to get rid of the lab for classrooms for awhile so this gives him the reason to do it. That said, I agree we can't afford as a community to pay to move this lab. Its not a cost we as taxpayers should allow- the same with the school name changes if these schools swap. We should be spending money that provides educational value for our kids- name changes do not and although the lab sounds cool thinking about this in the big picture that money could be better spent on trailers or building renovations to existing schools- both of which lead to more seats which we need desperately. I just hope the SB and APS do what they said they were going to do and balance out enrollment across schools. Its not fair to have some schools be over 100% and others under. They need to spread the wealth as class size does impact educational output.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, any parent in the world of rec soccer has used the discovery playground! It’s great and we use it often. My child has never been invited to any science program at ASFS, so I don’t really know what it has to offer. Again, private money offering unique educational opportunities in a public school not available to residents assigned to other schools. Are they building crappy new schools elsewhere in the school district? I think those are the only other facilities you can compare with discovery in a conversation about equity.

Fleet will nice, but not nearly as nice as Discovery. There are market reasons at play, but I don’t think APS should be let off the hook. They ignored/ cooked enrollment projections. Anyone with half a brain would have used that opportunity to get a school built economically. Now we have more and more kids and a shrunken commercial real estate base. Chadwick should be shown the door.
Also, this discussion is trivial compared to the crisis of SES diversity south Arlington is facing. Discovery was built. Bad decisions were made. Move on.

Exactly. That is the inequality. On a much bigger scale than a "lab" with a mural and hanging planets.

The inequality that matters is the crunch south Arlington is facing. They are overwhelmed by poverty. This discussion is trivial. Fleet will be nice enough. Now balance enrollment.

But the discussing of ASFS and the Key swap is not trivial BECAUSE of the inequality between SA and NA. The swap is a prime example of APS pandering to the wealthy few and/or making dumb decisions and trying to cover up such dumb decisions a few years down the road. It sounds like the School Board should have voted before doing a $200K upgrade to one of APS' facilities, but no one bothered to follow the right protocols (I mean, after all, it's just a little PTA fundraiser!). But it's not like the Board didn't know--Noah Simon was on the Board when his wife passed and the impetus to raise money in her honor for the lab was started . So even if the School Board didn't officially approve it, they tacitly did because no one was going to say hey, maybe it's not a wise decision to make such an extravagant upgrade when our enrollment is up and we're facing a capacity crisis and may need that space for classrooms. Their colleague and friend had literally just lost his wife. So now what does APS do? Instead of leaving the lab be, it wants to rip it out and try and recreate the lab in a new space-- causing extra and unnecessary expenses when we have a $43 million budget shortfall. Any why is it doing this? Some say to appease the Lyon Village parents who paid for the lab and want it in their new neighborhood school. Others say because they need the lab space for classrooms which would never happen if ASFS stays where it is. Either way, it's ridiculous that APS allowed the school to make this expensive upgrade (whether rightly or wrongly), and then just scrap the whole thing-- sure some parts can move but a lot of the money that went into the lab was for design and wiring for that specific space. That's now all going to be nil. It's all just such a waste-- a waste of the money raised, a waste of APS' time and resources dealing with the fallout of the swap, a waste of taxpayer dollars, etc. Those is SA should absolutely be outraged by the time, money and energy spent by APS on these two schools. Why, at the very least, has no one suggested that APS just leave the lab where it is-- everyone on this board says the lab ain't anything special and ASFS is not a "program" entitled to special consideration. Why not let the immersion kids enjoy the lab? Maybe they don't want it, but maybe they do, or maybe they at least want the option when they move in to decide what to do with it.

They can't leave the lab. The Science Focus building is already too small for the Key enrollment so they need the 2 classrooms to be classrooms and not labs. I think its one of the reasons that the Superintendent is moving the schools as he's wanted to get rid of the lab for classrooms for awhile so this gives him the reason to do it. That said, I agree we can't afford as a community to pay to move this lab. Its not a cost we as taxpayers should allow- the same with the school name changes if these schools swap. We should be spending money that provides educational value for our kids- name changes do not and although the lab sounds cool thinking about this in the big picture that money could be better spent on trailers or building renovations to existing schools- both of which lead to more seats which we need desperately. I just hope the SB and APS do what they said they were going to do and balance out enrollment across schools. Its not fair to have some schools be over 100% and others under. They need to spread the wealth as class size does impact educational output.

What if APS were to put a price tag on what it would take to move it and install it in the Key building . . . And ASFS could raise even more money to do that?

I don't think it solves the problem because of the concerns discussed elsewhere in this thread of private funds being used for this. I certainly don't think APS really thought about this issue much. And it certainly doesn't like how public it has become. They now won't be able to just move it under the cover of darkness. If ASFS families had kept their mouths shut about the lab, it wouldn't be getting this attention and APS would've moved it because of the space constraints at the ASFS buidling.

APS is now in a no-win situation. Destroy the equipment? Move it somewhere for all kids to have access to? Or move it to the Key building? Which would you choose?

[Anonymous]

Stop pretending it is a state of the art clean energy generator that is being hoarded from other elementary kids in APS. It is a concept with nice wall art and displays, nothing much else beyond the concept and some internal wiring.

The envy by some of the SJW is pathetic that they get riled up over this old brick building.

[Anonymous]

At this point, ASFS donated that lab to APS. That is the stipulation on any purchase like that. ASFS has no claim on it anymore.

APS should put it where it has space. If ASFS wants it, they should give up an art room or make it part of their library. It should certainly NOT take up valuable classroom space.

[Anonymous]

Kill the swap. It accomplishes nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kill the swap. It accomplishes nothing.

But, it does. It puts seats in Rosalyn with a large and walkable population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill the swap. It accomplishes nothing.

But, it does. It puts seats in Rosalyn with a large and walkable population.

DP. That is correct. I am extremely pro-swap.

[Anonymous]

One of the most problematic aspects of accomplishing the swap via administrative declaration is the complete lack of confidence many Arlington residents have in the fairness and propriety of the action. There is virtually no precedent for something like this in APS, and you couple that with the fact that the primary beneficiary of the swap is a segment of one of the wealthiest neighborhoids in APS, and why shouldn’t we assume something untoward is happening? Just fold it back into the boundary process like every other school assignment decision in the county. Is it so hard to at least pretend to apply the same set of rules to everyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the most problematic aspects of accomplishing the swap via administrative declaration is the complete lack of confidence many Arlington residents have in the fairness and propriety of the action. There is virtually no precedent for something like this in APS, and you couple that with the fact that the primary beneficiary of the swap is a segment of one of the wealthiest neighborhoids in APS, and why shouldn’t we assume something untoward is happening? Just fold it back into the boundary process like every other school assignment decision in the county. Is it so hard to at least pretend to apply the same set of rules to everyone?

I’m one of the pro swap posters above and I completely agree with you. It needs to be considered as part of a public process. They claim it will be when they have to decide whether to do it in 2020 or 2021 but that is after the decision to actually do it has been finalized.

I’m also curious what other scenarios may come out of a public process. Move it ATS. Keep both buildings as neighborhood schools. Move ATS or do away with it entirely. I was pleasantly surprised to see things like that on the table last spring. And, yes, my school was one on the list to become the new home to an existing options program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the most problematic aspects of accomplishing the swap via administrative declaration is the complete lack of confidence many Arlington residents have in the fairness and propriety of the action. There is virtually no precedent for something like this in APS, and you couple that with the fact that the primary beneficiary of the swap is a segment of one of the wealthiest neighborhoids in APS, and why shouldn’t we assume something untoward is happening? Just fold it back into the boundary process like every other school assignment decision in the county. Is it so hard to at least pretend to apply the same set of rules to everyone?

Yeah, I’m sure you all would be totally chill about the swap if only it were being put to a board vote instead of it being Murphy’s decision.