Travis and Taylor

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Today's mashup brought tears to my eyes. She is insane.

Wow. Just beautiful.

She doesn’t have the kind of beautiful voice that draws me in. What makes this “mashup” so moving to people? The lyrics?

The lyrics and her voice, which is beautiful and natural.

Isn’t it just the lyrics? She doesn’t have the kind of voice that pulls at your heartstrings, her range is limited and the melodies are very simple, more percussive than melodic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Also, can we stop declaring we know about Joe Alwyn's mental health. As far as I know he hasn't said anything about having depression.

+1
There is one bizarre poster who has extrapolated a couple of lines from songs and claims she knows all about Joe Alwyn's mental health. Meanwhile, there are zero actual news reports about anything like that.

Just googled it and there are a lot of TMZ type stuff that says he had mental health issues.

It may or may not be true, but it is easy to find tabloid articles about it.

The in group/out group tactics of calling people bizarre or weird just adds to the overall mean girl feel of Taylor fandoms- so go you?

Just Googled it ... TMZ type stuff"
Heaven forbid any of us is ever declared suffering from poor mental health by Dr. TMZ. Where did the media outlets get the idea that Joe has depression? Taylor lyrics. Taylor social media. Taylor fans. He hasn't said boo about it.
-First pp you quoted

You are trying to point out that Joe doesn’t have mental health issues. Cool- I have no idea if he does or doesn’t. I am not saying we can possibly even know that. Frankly, I dont care.

My point is that saying people are “bizarre” for stating something you can find in the grocery store aisle tabloids is trying to assign other-ness to a person for expressing an opinion that is fairly commonplace. The establishment of “other-ness” is a hallmark of Taylor fandom as well as mean girl cliques and bullies everywhere.

I didn't say anyone was bizarre for talking about Joe Alwyn's mental health. Creating and spreading diagnoses of someone's mental health is the way of society now, I know. Was just labeling the source as Taylor Swift.

+100

It’s bully behavior to suggest someone has mental illness in your lyrics when you say you have trained your fans to find clues.

I like her music but I do not think she always makes kind choices.

Nobody is perfect.

What lyrics are you talking about and how do you know it’s about Joe?

I’ll ask you a question. Why do people think Joe has depression when he has never stated such?

He did state he was depressed. Google his name.

DP. Not seeing anything but fan theories and rumors. Certainly not anything from Joe himself. Can you share some links?

+1

No I can't because now the google search is flooded with his statement ... Joe Alwyn “Depressed & Emotionally Drained” because he put out a statement that the breakup made him depressed.

Nah. That isn't from Joe' or his side. Still only hear this talk from Taylor's side of the fence.

Are you saying he made no statements ever in the past year?

I'm looking for Joe specifically talking about his depression. For him claiming this diagnosis.

He did make a statement and it comes up a 100 different ways if you google joe A and depression

Don't need 100 different ways. Only looking for one legitimate link of Joe talking about his depression, as was stated upthread.

Uh it doesn’t exist…

WHy would he do that? He has said it is hard to have the public eye on his private relationship and she is dropping Easter eggs about their relationship. It would be masochistic to say, yeah we broke up because I suffer from depression. Can you imagine the Swifties response? They would eat him alive and make fun of him. Especially when he still has a career in UK acting, it would not make sense to talk about how he feels right now.

Respect that he is keeping to himself in the face of the tempest that is the Swifties.

Swifties made Joe the enemy. If that happened to me, I’d be depressed about that!

They also wanted to attack John M and the actor featured in All Too Well. TS had to tell fans to calm down about John M. I don’t know if she ever told them to leave Joe alone when they said he was depressed. I don’t think she did, so I assume she’s happy to either share Joe’s personal health info or insinuate that Joe has a mental health issue.

Of course, she rarely admits to being part of went wrong in any relationship. She has done so a little bit but the main narrative is that it is the guy’s fault.

She has done nothing of the sort. You are part of the problem.
DP

Yes, she has. She wrote about “bluest days” and fans think the song about London is about Joe.

She doesn’t correct them. She is the source of the lyrics and the mania of looking for “Easter eggs,” which she has stated she “trained” her fans to do.

I don't take the bluest days lyric as her declaring that he had full depression. I take it as days that it just got to him, all of the fame, etc. and he let it take over. There are multiple interpretations of everything she writes, and she will never correct anyone because they aren't all 100% autobiographical and she wants you to apply it to your interpretation, not hers. These posts about Joe are just weird. If they aren't griping at each other - and it doesn't sound like they are - why are you?

There are only so many ways to take no scooter signs in the background of her videos. She literally said she trained her fans to look into it. Why is it “weird” to point out that she does this? Maybe it makes you uncomfortable?

The most unique part of her fandom is the Easter eggs and manipulative games she plays with her fans. She describes an experience to such an extent, you CAN”T generalize to your own life and she DOES want her fans to interpret her life to the lyrics.

“I love to communicate through Easter eggs,” says Swift. “I think the best messages are cryptic ones.”

Because keeping her fans guessing about her life and her work is what is making her money. She says this, repeatedly.

Right. Her life. Not others' mental health lives. Scooter Braun deserved not one shred of privacy after what he did to her and others and she's allowed to react to it and have feelings about it. She didn't give that right up just because she's a public figure. They count on that. But again, if Joe is OK, and doesn't speak ill about one her (he just referred to it as a loving 6 year relationship recently, and said nothing bad about her), why should you? Don't you think he has more knowledge about their relationship than you do?

You are completely missing the point of my posts. I have not ever said anything about Joe’s mental health except we can’t know what it is.

The scooter Easter egg was an EXAMPLE of how she uses them. You can’t blame her fans, who she has said she trained to look for hints to her life in her work for doing exactly what she wants them too and look for signs of her personal life in her songs.

You should hold Taylor responsible for encouraging this damaging game, not the fans. She “loves this” and believes “the best messages are cryptic ones” so she can make money and draw her fans in.

Her FANS are doing the work of the queen bee, exactly as she wants them too.

I’m not missing your point. I’m disagreeing with it.

You aren’t though. You are agreeing with me that Joes mental health should be private. You aren’t addressing the part that we disagree about: Taylor is cultivating the attitude in her fans of looking for Easter eggs about her life and work. She has said this and it is fact. WHY do you think she has no blame in her fans picking Joe apart

[Anonymous]

Can the posters debating Joes mental health create a new thread?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, can we stop declaring we know about Joe Alwyn's mental health. As far as I know he hasn't said anything about having depression.

+1
There is one bizarre poster who has extrapolated a couple of lines from songs and claims she knows all about Joe Alwyn's mental health. Meanwhile, there are zero actual news reports about anything like that.

Just googled it and there are a lot of TMZ type stuff that says he had mental health issues.

It may or may not be true, but it is easy to find tabloid articles about it.

The in group/out group tactics of calling people bizarre or weird just adds to the overall mean girl feel of Taylor fandoms- so go you?

Just Googled it ... TMZ type stuff"
Heaven forbid any of us is ever declared suffering from poor mental health by Dr. TMZ. Where did the media outlets get the idea that Joe has depression? Taylor lyrics. Taylor social media. Taylor fans. He hasn't said boo about it.
-First pp you quoted

You are trying to point out that Joe doesn’t have mental health issues. Cool- I have no idea if he does or doesn’t. I am not saying we can possibly even know that. Frankly, I dont care.

My point is that saying people are “bizarre” for stating something you can find in the grocery store aisle tabloids is trying to assign other-ness to a person for expressing an opinion that is fairly commonplace. The establishment of “other-ness” is a hallmark of Taylor fandom as well as mean girl cliques and bullies everywhere.

I didn't say anyone was bizarre for talking about Joe Alwyn's mental health. Creating and spreading diagnoses of someone's mental health is the way of society now, I know. Was just labeling the source as Taylor Swift.

+100

It’s bully behavior to suggest someone has mental illness in your lyrics when you say you have trained your fans to find clues.

I like her music but I do not think she always makes kind choices.

Nobody is perfect.

What lyrics are you talking about and how do you know it’s about Joe?

I’ll ask you a question. Why do people think Joe has depression when he has never stated such?

He did state he was depressed. Google his name.

DP. Not seeing anything but fan theories and rumors. Certainly not anything from Joe himself. Can you share some links?

+1

No I can't because now the google search is flooded with his statement ... Joe Alwyn “Depressed & Emotionally Drained” because he put out a statement that the breakup made him depressed.

Nah. That isn't from Joe' or his side. Still only hear this talk from Taylor's side of the fence.

Are you saying he made no statements ever in the past year?

I'm looking for Joe specifically talking about his depression. For him claiming this diagnosis.

He did make a statement and it comes up a 100 different ways if you google joe A and depression

Don't need 100 different ways. Only looking for one legitimate link of Joe talking about his depression, as was stated upthread.

Uh it doesn’t exist…

WHy would he do that? He has said it is hard to have the public eye on his private relationship and she is dropping Easter eggs about their relationship. It would be masochistic to say, yeah we broke up because I suffer from depression. Can you imagine the Swifties response? They would eat him alive and make fun of him. Especially when he still has a career in UK acting, it would not make sense to talk about how he feels right now.

Respect that he is keeping to himself in the face of the tempest that is the Swifties.

Swifties made Joe the enemy. If that happened to me, I’d be depressed about that!

They also wanted to attack John M and the actor featured in All Too Well. TS had to tell fans to calm down about John M. I don’t know if she ever told them to leave Joe alone when they said he was depressed. I don’t think she did, so I assume she’s happy to either share Joe’s personal health info or insinuate that Joe has a mental health issue.

Of course, she rarely admits to being part of went wrong in any relationship. She has done so a little bit but the main narrative is that it is the guy’s fault.

She has done nothing of the sort. You are part of the problem.
DP

Yes, she has. She wrote about “bluest days” and fans think the song about London is about Joe.

She doesn’t correct them. She is the source of the lyrics and the mania of looking for “Easter eggs,” which she has stated she “trained” her fans to do.

I don't take the bluest days lyric as her declaring that he had full depression. I take it as days that it just got to him, all of the fame, etc. and he let it take over. There are multiple interpretations of everything she writes, and she will never correct anyone because they aren't all 100% autobiographical and she wants you to apply it to your interpretation, not hers. These posts about Joe are just weird. If they aren't griping at each other - and it doesn't sound like they are - why are you?

There are only so many ways to take no scooter signs in the background of her videos. She literally said she trained her fans to look into it. Why is it “weird” to point out that she does this? Maybe it makes you uncomfortable?

The most unique part of her fandom is the Easter eggs and manipulative games she plays with her fans. She describes an experience to such an extent, you CAN”T generalize to your own life and she DOES want her fans to interpret her life to the lyrics.

“I love to communicate through Easter eggs,” says Swift. “I think the best messages are cryptic ones.”

Because keeping her fans guessing about her life and her work is what is making her money. She says this, repeatedly.

Right. Her life. Not others' mental health lives. Scooter Braun deserved not one shred of privacy after what he did to her and others and she's allowed to react to it and have feelings about it. She didn't give that right up just because she's a public figure. They count on that. But again, if Joe is OK, and doesn't speak ill about one her (he just referred to it as a loving 6 year relationship recently, and said nothing bad about her), why should you? Don't you think he has more knowledge about their relationship than you do?

You are completely missing the point of my posts. I have not ever said anything about Joe’s mental health except we can’t know what it is.

The scooter Easter egg was an EXAMPLE of how she uses them. You can’t blame her fans, who she has said she trained to look for hints to her life in her work for doing exactly what she wants them too and look for signs of her personal life in her songs.

You should hold Taylor responsible for encouraging this damaging game, not the fans. She “loves this” and believes “the best messages are cryptic ones” so she can make money and draw her fans in.

Her FANS are doing the work of the queen bee, exactly as she wants them too.

I’m not missing your point. I’m disagreeing with it.

You aren’t though. You are agreeing with me that Joes mental health should be private. You aren’t addressing the part that we disagree about: Taylor is cultivating the attitude in her fans of looking for Easter eggs about her life and work. She has said this and it is fact. WHY do you think she has no blame in her fans picking Joe apart

And yet you. Keep. Posting. About. It.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can the posters debating Joes mental health create a new thread?

Even better, how about a separate post for the haters to hate and leave the rest of us to enjoy some positivity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can the posters debating Joes mental health create a new thread?

They tend to get deleted by admin, so you'll have to put up with us in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can the posters debating Joes mental health create a new thread?

Even better, how about a separate post for the haters to hate and leave the rest of us to enjoy some positivity.

How about you stop calling people "haters" when they point out that TS has trained her fans to look for Easter eggs and that conveys to fan speculation about Joe's mental health?

We could also talk about how she used "gay" as a insult on her first album. She changed the lyric and never mentioned it again. She also used to have a fake country accent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can the posters debating Joes mental health create a new thread?

Even better, how about a separate post for the haters to hate and leave the rest of us to enjoy some positivity.

💯

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can the posters debating Joes mental health create a new thread?

Even better, how about a separate post for the haters to hate and leave the rest of us to enjoy some positivity.

How about you stop calling people "haters" when they point out that TS has trained her fans to look for Easter eggs and that conveys to fan speculation about Joe's mental health?

We could also talk about how she used "gay" as an insult on her first album. She changed the lyric and never mentioned it again. She also used to have a fake country accent.

Or you could just stop beating dead horses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can the posters debating Joes mental health create a new thread?

Even better, how about a separate post for the haters to hate and leave the rest of us to enjoy some positivity.

How about you stop calling people "haters" when they point out that TS has trained her fans to look for Easter eggs and that conveys to fan speculation about Joe's mental health?

We could also talk about how she used "gay" as an insult on her first album. She changed the lyric and never mentioned it again. She also used to have a fake country accent.

Or maybe it’s because he said… Joe Alwyn: I relate to mental health frustrations in Conversations with Friends

[Anonymous]

What does ANY OF THIS have to do with the topic of this thread, which is the relationship between Taylor and Travis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does ANY OF THIS have to do with the topic of this thread, which is the relationship between Taylor and Travis?

It's relevant because we're seeing the same "love story" play out on repeat with Taylor. At this point they're in the publicly besotted stage. Next, they'll move into the steady comfortable stage, which for Taylor is the disillusioned, bored stage. Travis will be on his way out, Taylor will release her side to be combed through.

Joe is the After to Travis's Now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does ANY OF THIS have to do with the topic of this thread, which is the relationship between Taylor and Travis?

It's relevant because we're seeing the same "love story" play out on repeat with Taylor. At this point they're in the publicly besotted stage. Next, they'll move into the steady comfortable stage, which for Taylor is the disillusioned, bored stage. Travis will be on his way out, Taylor will release her side to be combed through.

Joe is the After to Travis's Now.

WTAF are you talking about? You clearly know absolutely nothing. And it's utterly irrelevant to speak about Joe's depression/non-depression in a thread about Taylor Swift and her current boyfriend. It's irrelevant to speak about any former relationship in a thread about her and her current boyfriend. You just hate her. It's OK to hate her, but damn woman get a hobby that doesn't involve all this hate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does ANY OF THIS have to do with the topic of this thread, which is the relationship between Taylor and Travis?

It's relevant because we're seeing the same "love story" play out on repeat with Taylor. At this point they're in the publicly besotted stage. Next, they'll move into the steady comfortable stage, which for Taylor is the disillusioned, bored stage. Travis will be on his way out, Taylor will release her side to be combed through.

Joe is the After to Travis's Now.

WTAF are you talking about? You clearly know absolutely nothing. And it's utterly irrelevant to speak about Joe's depression/non-depression in a thread about Taylor Swift and her current boyfriend. It's irrelevant to speak about any former relationship in a thread about her and her current boyfriend. You just hate her. It's OK to hate her, but damn woman get a hobby that doesn't involve all this hate.

OK. The "actual f**k" I was talking about (I'm not the one you've been sparring with), is that it makes sense to talk about Joe Alwyn's treatment as Taylor's boyfriend because it's the same trend. Her behavior toward Travis is going to follow the same basic pattern as it did for everyone before him. I don't hate Taylor.

[Anonymous]

also, I agree with you that there's no proof of Joe's depression and people need to stop spreading rumors about his mental health.