Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great school for an independent American student, but not for everyone. Has the highest entry standard for any UK university - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?sortby=entry-standards

No, that would be Cambridge and Oxford. Everyone in England knows that. [b]Plus the applicant pools are very different. [url]Students in England are in a system that tries to siphon off the appropriate students to trades early on. THAT, combined with A levels means that only the very top students apply to Oxford or Cambridge (you must pick). If they have to drop down it's not to St Andrews. More like Imperial College

I asked my kid who is just finishing her third year at Oxford. She said that the applicant pools are different, i.e., the kid applying to Oxford or Cambridge is not going to be applying to St. Andrews. That being said, St. Andrews is thought of being more posher in deference to the Americans

This was not the case 25 years ago. Nearly every student there compared each others failed Oxbridge interview (think Google interview)

https://www.theforage.com/blog/interview-questions/google-interview-questions#:~:text=Google's%20interview%20questions%20are%20notoriously,0.2%25%20of%20its%20applicants!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great school for an independent American student, but not for everyone. Has the highest entry standard for any UK university - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?sortby=entry-standards

No, that would be Cambridge and Oxford. Everyone in England knows that. [b]Plus the applicant pools are very different. [url]Students in England are in a system that tries to siphon off the appropriate students to trades early on. THAT, combined with A levels means that only the very top students apply to Oxford or Cambridge (you must pick). If they have to drop down it's not to St Andrews. More like Imperial College

I asked my kid who is just finishing her third year at Oxford. She said that the applicant pools are different, i.e., the kid applying to Oxford or Cambridge is not going to be applying to St. Andrews. That being said, St. Andrews is thought of being more posher in deference to the Americans

This was not the case 25 years ago. Nearly every student there compared each others failed Oxbridge interview (think Google interview)

https://www.theforage.com/blog/interview-questions/google-interview-questions#:~:text=Google's%20interview%20questions%20are%20notoriously,0.2%25%20of%20its%20applicants!).

The Oxbridge interviews are very rough and entirely substantive, based upon the proposed area of study. There are entire books written on how to prepare for these interviews. It's unlike anything in the american system

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well… the University is highly respected, but the quality of the undergraduate teaching is so -so. Lectures with the professors, but grad students teach the small group classes.

Also being an American there is kind of like going to Barnard, but taking all your classes at Columbia. You’ve got an asterisk hanging over your head that denotes “came in through the back door”.

in what way do you mean coming through the back door

It's statistically much easier for Americans to get in to St Andrews than it is for kids from the UK. The UK kids know this and the Americans are viewed as less than

[Anonymous]

St Andrews is making the rounds with fundraising phone calls to the American parents this week - do they ask UK parents for money, too? Or are the Americans paying full tuition AND the only ones asked for donations as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from St Andrews relatively recently. A couple of points:

1. Many highly qualified St Andrews students turned down offers from ivies. One of my best friends from the states turned down an offer at Penn. My freshmen year roommate who was also from the states turned down a scholarship from Dartmouth. One of my other good friends got into Columbia. I’m not suggesting St Andrews is better than these schools- I believe school selection should depend on a students needs and aspirations. I do believe St Andrews is objectively a prestigious university. The material I was learning in my fourth year classes was more advanced than my friends studying the same subject at prestigious US schools. First year classes aren’t too bad, however the honors courses in third and fourth year can be very demanding.

2. You cannot judge St Andrews by the QS/US news rankings. St Andrews is known for its undergraduate education, it has a relatively small number of graduate students/programs. The QS/US ranking uses factors that favor larger institutions that have large graduate programs. Many smaller reputable schools in the US (Brown, Williams, Dartmouth) also do very poorly on the QS/US news rankings for the same reason. Use the UK rankings to judge St Andrews. Traditionally St Andrews has been significantly easier for Americans to be accepted compared to UK students, however, that gap is quickly closing.

3. St Andrews does not have the same name recognition as the ivies in the states mostly because people haven’t heard of it (name recognition is growing). However, most top companies understand that St Andrews is an academically prestigious school. I had no problem securing interviews at top consulting firms (BCG), investment banking firms, and Fortune 500 companies. Most of my friends studying computer science work at Apple, Meta, Spotify, Goldman, etc. My friend who went to St Albans for HS started working at Bain and Co right after graduation. Many of my friends from St Andrews have gone on to study at prestigious graduate programs in the US (Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan, Wharton, Georgetown Law, etc.)

4. St Andrews academics and lifestyle is very hands off compared to US institutions. It has its pros and cons. Pro: the majority of my fellow classmates living in the US noticed that after graduation we were considerably more mature and independent than our classmates who attended prestigious universities in the US.

5. St Andrews is truly a unique experience. I have good friends from all over the world. I’ve attended numerous black-tie balls, fashion shows, dinner parties, wine and cheese tastings (our wine tasting team travels all over the world for competitions). I’ve seen Obama golf on the Old Course. I’ve met Hilary Clinton when she visited. I’ve traveled to so many countries in Europe and had so many memorable adventures. The list goes on..

+1

Do you hear yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from St Andrews relatively recently. A couple of points:

1. Many highly qualified St Andrews students turned down offers from ivies. One of my best friends from the states turned down an offer at Penn. My freshmen year roommate who was also from the states turned down a scholarship from Dartmouth. One of my other good friends got into Columbia. I’m not suggesting St Andrews is better than these schools- I believe school selection should depend on a students needs and aspirations. I do believe St Andrews is objectively a prestigious university. The material I was learning in my fourth year classes was more advanced than my friends studying the same subject at prestigious US schools. First year classes aren’t too bad, however the honors courses in third and fourth year can be very demanding.

2. You cannot judge St Andrews by the QS/US news rankings. St Andrews is known for its undergraduate education, it has a relatively small number of graduate students/programs. The QS/US ranking uses factors that favor larger institutions that have large graduate programs. Many smaller reputable schools in the US (Brown, Williams, Dartmouth) also do very poorly on the QS/US news rankings for the same reason. Use the UK rankings to judge St Andrews. Traditionally St Andrews has been significantly easier for Americans to be accepted compared to UK students, however, that gap is quickly closing.

3. St Andrews does not have the same name recognition as the ivies in the states mostly because people haven’t heard of it (name recognition is growing). However, most top companies understand that St Andrews is an academically prestigious school. I had no problem securing interviews at top consulting firms (BCG), investment banking firms, and Fortune 500 companies. Most of my friends studying computer science work at Apple, Meta, Spotify, Goldman, etc. My friend who went to St Albans for HS started working at Bain and Co right after graduation. Many of my friends from St Andrews have gone on to study at prestigious graduate programs in the US (Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan, Wharton, Georgetown Law, etc.)

4. St Andrews academics and lifestyle is very hands off compared to US institutions. It has its pros and cons. Pro: the majority of my fellow classmates living in the US noticed that after graduation we were considerably more mature and independent than our classmates who attended prestigious universities in the US.

5. St Andrews is truly a unique experience. I have good friends from all over the world. I’ve attended numerous black-tie balls, fashion shows, dinner parties, wine and cheese tastings (our wine tasting team travels all over the world for competitions). I’ve seen Obama golf on the Old Course. I’ve met Hilary Clinton when she visited. I’ve traveled to so many countries in Europe and had so many memorable adventures. The list goes on..

+1

Do you hear yourself?

and your problem is ...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the old guard from Oxford and Cambridge are upset because St Andrews is knock, knocking, knocking on the door of their vaunted place atop the UK University system.

Yep! That is exactly what it is! The British don’t like that their elite universities have St Andrews nipping at their heals…

Actually, they don't care. and I'm at Oxford as I type

I think your comment on this here St. Andrew's thread went right over your head. What is it like to so blissfully lack self-awareness?

DP. comment makes sense to me. Maybe YOU are the one lacking in self-awareness. Start by not wasting everyone's tone with stupid pists trying to attack others who are actually contributing to the conversation, which you most certainly aren't

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews is making the rounds with fundraising phone calls to the American parents this week - do they ask UK parents for money, too? Or are the Americans paying full tuition AND the only ones asked for donations as well?

DC graduated from St Andrews. We were never asked to donate, unlike DC currently attending a US university. Found that to be quite refreshing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews is making the rounds with fundraising phone calls to the American parents this week - do they ask UK parents for money, too? Or are the Americans paying full tuition AND the only ones asked for donations as well?

are US state schools not allowed to ask OOS parents for donations? It's really a similar dynamic. You're not paying UK taxes so you're not funding the UK universities, hence you pay international tuition.

St Andrews is a bargain compared to US full pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews is making the rounds with fundraising phone calls to the American parents this week - do they ask UK parents for money, too? Or are the Americans paying full tuition AND the only ones asked for donations as well?

are US state schools not allowed to ask OOS parents for donations? It's really a similar dynamic. You're not paying UK taxes so you're not funding the UK universities, hence you pay international tuition.

St Andrews is a bargain compared to US full pay.

I’m curious whether the UK parents are asked to donate money, too. American parent here who has been to fundraisers in NYC and now getting phone calls asking for more money. Is it only the Americans?

[Anonymous]

It’s not really that much of a bargain when you factor in the incidentals, but they like to say it is. Lots of extras add up.

[Anonymous]

Doesn’t matter to most Americans whose kids are there, lots of wealthy Americans who aren’t counting pennies.

Not everyone, but lots.

Their ideal American candidate is a wealthy boarding school kid with enthusiastic parents who will donate more money above and beyond the tuition.

St A doesnt have high standards or expectations for their American applicants, they just need bright-enough seat fillers who won’t drag the pace of the class down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from St Andrews relatively recently. A couple of points:

1. Many highly qualified St Andrews students turned down offers from ivies. One of my best friends from the states turned down an offer at Penn. My freshmen year roommate who was also from the states turned down a scholarship from Dartmouth. One of my other good friends got into Columbia. I’m not suggesting St Andrews is better than these schools- I believe school selection should depend on a students needs and aspirations. I do believe St Andrews is objectively a prestigious university. The material I was learning in my fourth year classes was more advanced than my friends studying the same subject at prestigious US schools. First year classes aren’t too bad, however the honors courses in third and fourth year can be very demanding.

2. You cannot judge St Andrews by the QS/US news rankings. St Andrews is known for its undergraduate education, it has a relatively small number of graduate students/programs. The QS/US ranking uses factors that favor larger institutions that have large graduate programs. Many smaller reputable schools in the US (Brown, Williams, Dartmouth) also do very poorly on the QS/US news rankings for the same reason. Use the UK rankings to judge St Andrews. Traditionally St Andrews has been significantly easier for Americans to be accepted compared to UK students, however, that gap is quickly closing.

3. St Andrews does not have the same name recognition as the ivies in the states mostly because people haven’t heard of it (name recognition is growing). However, most top companies understand that St Andrews is an academically prestigious school. I had no problem securing interviews at top consulting firms (BCG), investment banking firms, and Fortune 500 companies. Most of my friends studying computer science work at Apple, Meta, Spotify, Goldman, etc. My friend who went to St Albans for HS started working at Bain and Co right after graduation. Many of my friends from St Andrews have gone on to study at prestigious graduate programs in the US (Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan, Wharton, Georgetown Law, etc.)

4. St Andrews academics and lifestyle is very hands off compared to US institutions. It has its pros and cons. Pro: the majority of my fellow classmates living in the US noticed that after graduation we were considerably more mature and independent than our classmates who attended prestigious universities in the US.

5. St Andrews is truly a unique experience. I have good friends from all over the world. I’ve attended numerous black-tie balls, fashion shows, dinner parties, wine and cheese tastings (our wine tasting team travels all over the world for competitions). I’ve seen Obama golf on the Old Course. I’ve met Hilary Clinton when she visited. I’ve traveled to so many countries in Europe and had so many memorable adventures. The list goes on..

So- reading between the lines- some kids who are accepted to prestigious US universities choose St Andrews.

The undergraduate educational experience is hands off, and the classes become more demanding as you progress through your degree.

The name recognition doesn’t translate with recruiters in the States, but graduates still get jobs at investment banks thanks to growing up in Manhattan and Greenwich, boarding school, and all the connections forged in those worlds, let’s not kid ourselves.

Many people will be impressed with your independence and worldliness because you have spent four years at polo matches and black tie balls and nonchalantly travel around Europe.

You rub elbows with famous politicians and also see them from afar on the golf course.

Make sure to leave room in your suitcase for your tuxedo and ball gown, and after four years you can tell everyone how special you are because you had enough money to enjoy your college years abroad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the old guard from Oxford and Cambridge are upset because St Andrews is knock, knocking, knocking on the door of their vaunted place atop the UK University system.

Yep! That is exactly what it is! The British don’t like that their elite universities have St Andrews nipping at their heals…

Actually, they don't care. and I'm at Oxford as I type

I think your comment on this here St. Andrew's thread went right over your head. What is it like to so blissfully lack self-awareness?

DP. comment makes sense to me. Maybe YOU are the one lacking in self-awareness. Start by not wasting everyone's tone with stupid pists trying to attack others who are actually contributing to the conversation, which you most certainly aren't

I honestly struggle to believe that current Oxford students are bashing St Andrews on DCUM lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from St Andrews relatively recently. A couple of points:

1. Many highly qualified St Andrews students turned down offers from ivies. One of my best friends from the states turned down an offer at Penn. My freshmen year roommate who was also from the states turned down a scholarship from Dartmouth. One of my other good friends got into Columbia. I’m not suggesting St Andrews is better than these schools- I believe school selection should depend on a students needs and aspirations. I do believe St Andrews is objectively a prestigious university. The material I was learning in my fourth year classes was more advanced than my friends studying the same subject at prestigious US schools. First year classes aren’t too bad, however the honors courses in third and fourth year can be very demanding.

2. You cannot judge St Andrews by the QS/US news rankings. St Andrews is known for its undergraduate education, it has a relatively small number of graduate students/programs. The QS/US ranking uses factors that favor larger institutions that have large graduate programs. Many smaller reputable schools in the US (Brown, Williams, Dartmouth) also do very poorly on the QS/US news rankings for the same reason. Use the UK rankings to judge St Andrews. Traditionally St Andrews has been significantly easier for Americans to be accepted compared to UK students, however, that gap is quickly closing.

3. St Andrews does not have the same name recognition as the ivies in the states mostly because people haven’t heard of it (name recognition is growing). However, most top companies understand that St Andrews is an academically prestigious school. I had no problem securing interviews at top consulting firms (BCG), investment banking firms, and Fortune 500 companies. Most of my friends studying computer science work at Apple, Meta, Spotify, Goldman, etc. My friend who went to St Albans for HS started working at Bain and Co right after graduation. Many of my friends from St Andrews have gone on to study at prestigious graduate programs in the US (Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan, Wharton, Georgetown Law, etc.)

4. St Andrews academics and lifestyle is very hands off compared to US institutions. It has its pros and cons. Pro: the majority of my fellow classmates living in the US noticed that after graduation we were considerably more mature and independent than our classmates who attended prestigious universities in the US.

5. St Andrews is truly a unique experience. I have good friends from all over the world. I’ve attended numerous black-tie balls, fashion shows, dinner parties, wine and cheese tastings (our wine tasting team travels all over the world for competitions). I’ve seen Obama golf on the Old Course. I’ve met Hilary Clinton when she visited. I’ve traveled to so many countries in Europe and had so many memorable adventures. The list goes on..

So- reading between the lines- some kids who are accepted to prestigious US universities choose St Andrews.

The undergraduate educational experience is hands off, and the classes become more demanding as you progress through your degree.

The name recognition doesn’t translate with recruiters in the States, but graduates still get jobs at investment banks thanks to growing up in Manhattan and Greenwich, boarding school, and all the connections forged in those worlds, let’s not kid ourselves.

Many people will be impressed with your independence and worldliness because you have spent four years at polo matches and black tie balls and nonchalantly travel around Europe.

You rub elbows with famous politicians and also see them from afar on the golf course.

Make sure to leave room in your suitcase for your tuxedo and ball gown, and after four years you can tell everyone how special you are because you had enough money to enjoy your college years abroad.

"The name recognition doesn’t translate with recruiters in the States, but graduates still get jobs at investment banks thanks to growing up in Manhattan and Greenwich, boarding school, and all the connections forged in those worlds, let’s not kid ourselves."

This is the case at literally every university, from Ivies to the NESCACs to NYU, the grads with the best career placement (often, not always) get where they are from their connections.

Not at all unique to St Andrews.