Tell me about St Andrews in Scotland

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the old guard from Oxford and Cambridge are upset because St Andrews is knock, knocking, knocking on the door of their vaunted place atop the UK University system.

Yep! That is exactly what it is! The British don’t like that their elite universities have St Andrews nipping at their heals…

Actually, they don't care. and I'm at Oxford as I type

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great school for an independent American student, but not for everyone. Has the highest entry standard for any UK university - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?sortby=entry-standards

No, that would be Cambridge and Oxford. Everyone in England knows that. Plus the applicant pools are very different. Students in England are in a system that tries to siphon off the appropriate students to trades early on. THAT, combined with A levels means that only the very top students apply to Oxford or Cambridge (you must pick). If they have to drop down it's not to St Andrews. More like Imperial College

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok all, I had been half-following this conversation as my son has been happily enrolled in the William and Mary/St Andrews dual degree program, and unfortunately now I agree with the poster who was unhappy with the administration.

My son had an excellent two years at St Andrews, and requested to transfer to enroll full time at St Andrews to complete his degree. Excellent grades to support his application.

His application was denied, without any real explanation as to why, ok fine.

OP is right - the WAY he was treated was so different than if he’d been dealing with an American University.

As he was waiting to hear about his application, they were unresponsive, dragged their feet, didn’t get back to him for literal months after he submitted it. To the point where it interfered with his ability to plan for next year - class sign ups, housing, employment… his requests for a date he’d hear by were met with a shrug.

For the University to treat their own students as so unimportant - they don’t merit communication or clarity from the University. Can’t plan lives, income, housing, travel, visas… they have been vague and standoffish at best to deal with.

Before everyone piles on about “boo hoo Americans expect special treatment”, consider this-

It’s St Andrews that is expecting special treatment from the Americans. We agree to to pay their full American rates- a price that UK citizens wouldn’t dream of paying. We do, and they tell us it’s a bargain. Ok fine.
Our son received in turn disorganized and unprofessional experience from the St Andrews administration on several occasions.

Don’t get me wrong- the students, the societies, the beautiful setting are so special. The faculty within the schools are helpful and they do care. No problem with the faculty. I suspect the faculty and the administration are at odds.

The administration itself from the top down, my son described, has an antagonistic relationship with its students.

They won’t meet with you, can’t be bothered to work with you, they take their time getting back to you, left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing etc etc.

It’s hard to describe until it happens- something run of the mill comes up regarding schedules, credits, housing, what have you, and suddenly you’re dealing with a completely defensive and murky bureaucracy over there.

St Andrews has gotten very popular, and it’s easier for them to show kids the door and say “if you don’t like it- leave” than to put in a little effort to assist the students they already have.

We were disappointed that after two great years at St Andrews, with excellent grades to show for it, they weren’t interested in keeping a successful student on campus that had come to feel like home to him.

This also speaks to the social difficulty of the dual degree programs, but that’s a different conversation.

Before your student says yes to St Andrews, remember the decision makers in the administration really do not care about your student at all in the way an American University would - an American University wants high retention rates and graduation rates.

I suspect the high rankings for St Andrews may come from students who like the town, the parties and the societies, all great assets.

It doesn’t seem like a something to consider until it happens to your student- this university sees itself as the customer, they want us to make their job easier. and the customer is always right.

This indifference to Americans is exactly what my DD is experiencing at Oxford. We Americans are a necessary evil. They put up with us because they want our $$. Don't enter the system thinking it will offer any kind of service that you might expect from American schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great school for an independent American student, but not for everyone. Has the highest entry standard for any UK university - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?sortby=entry-standards

No, that would be Cambridge and Oxford. Everyone in England knows that. [b]Plus the applicant pools are very different. [url]Students in England are in a system that tries to siphon off the appropriate students to trades early on. THAT, combined with A levels means that only the very top students apply to Oxford or Cambridge (you must pick). If they have to drop down it's not to St Andrews. More like Imperial College

I asked my kid who is just finishing her third year at Oxford. She said that the applicant pools are different, i.e., the kid applying to Oxford or Cambridge is not going to be applying to St. Andrews. That being said, St. Andrews is thought of being more posher in deference to the Americans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok all, I had been half-following this conversation as my son has been happily enrolled in the William and Mary/St Andrews dual degree program, and unfortunately now I agree with the poster who was unhappy with the administration.

My son had an excellent two years at St Andrews, and requested to transfer to enroll full time at St Andrews to complete his degree. Excellent grades to support his application.

His application was denied, without any real explanation as to why, ok fine.

OP is right - the WAY he was treated was so different than if he’d been dealing with an American University.

As he was waiting to hear about his application, they were unresponsive, dragged their feet, didn’t get back to him for literal months after he submitted it. To the point where it interfered with his ability to plan for next year - class sign ups, housing, employment… his requests for a date he’d hear by were met with a shrug.

For the University to treat their own students as so unimportant - they don’t merit communication or clarity from the University. Can’t plan lives, income, housing, travel, visas… they have been vague and standoffish at best to deal with.

Before everyone piles on about “boo hoo Americans expect special treatment”, consider this-

It’s St Andrews that is expecting special treatment from the Americans. We agree to to pay their full American rates- a price that UK citizens wouldn’t dream of paying. We do, and they tell us it’s a bargain. Ok fine.
Our son received in turn disorganized and unprofessional experience from the St Andrews administration on several occasions.

Don’t get me wrong- the students, the societies, the beautiful setting are so special. The faculty within the schools are helpful and they do care. No problem with the faculty. I suspect the faculty and the administration are at odds.

The administration itself from the top down, my son described, has an antagonistic relationship with its students.

They won’t meet with you, can’t be bothered to work with you, they take their time getting back to you, left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing etc etc.

It’s hard to describe until it happens- something run of the mill comes up regarding schedules, credits, housing, what have you, and suddenly you’re dealing with a completely defensive and murky bureaucracy over there.

St Andrews has gotten very popular, and it’s easier for them to show kids the door and say “if you don’t like it- leave” than to put in a little effort to assist the students they already have.

We were disappointed that after two great years at St Andrews, with excellent grades to show for it, they weren’t interested in keeping a successful student on campus that had come to feel like home to him.

This also speaks to the social difficulty of the dual degree programs, but that’s a different conversation.

Before your student says yes to St Andrews, remember the decision makers in the administration really do not care about your student at all in the way an American University would - an American University wants high retention rates and graduation rates.

I suspect the high rankings for St Andrews may come from students who like the town, the parties and the societies, all great assets.

It doesn’t seem like a something to consider until it happens to your student- this university sees itself as the customer, they want us to make their job easier. and the customer is always right.

This indifference to Americans is exactly what my DD is experiencing at Oxford. We Americans are a necessary evil. They put up with us because they want our $$. Don't enter the system thinking it will offer any kind of service that you might expect from American schools.

I was a grad student at St. Andrews a while back. I had no complaints, but it was pretty amazing how little the faculty & staff thought of undergrads. They even turned off their heat at night in the dorms.

The best of both worlds is to go to an American college for undergrad, & then do a master’s and/or doctorate in the UK. Their grad degrees are usually quite streamlined compared to their American equivalents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok all, I had been half-following this conversation as my son has been happily enrolled in the William and Mary/St Andrews dual degree program, and unfortunately now I agree with the poster who was unhappy with the administration.

My son had an excellent two years at St Andrews, and requested to transfer to enroll full time at St Andrews to complete his degree. Excellent grades to support his application.

His application was denied, without any real explanation as to why, ok fine.

OP is right - the WAY he was treated was so different than if he’d been dealing with an American University.

As he was waiting to hear about his application, they were unresponsive, dragged their feet, didn’t get back to him for literal months after he submitted it. To the point where it interfered with his ability to plan for next year - class sign ups, housing, employment… his requests for a date he’d hear by were met with a shrug.

For the University to treat their own students as so unimportant - they don’t merit communication or clarity from the University. Can’t plan lives, income, housing, travel, visas… they have been vague and standoffish at best to deal with.

Before everyone piles on about “boo hoo Americans expect special treatment”, consider this-

It’s St Andrews that is expecting special treatment from the Americans. We agree to to pay their full American rates- a price that UK citizens wouldn’t dream of paying. We do, and they tell us it’s a bargain. Ok fine.
Our son received in turn disorganized and unprofessional experience from the St Andrews administration on several occasions.

Don’t get me wrong- the students, the societies, the beautiful setting are so special. The faculty within the schools are helpful and they do care. No problem with the faculty. I suspect the faculty and the administration are at odds.

The administration itself from the top down, my son described, has an antagonistic relationship with its students.

They won’t meet with you, can’t be bothered to work with you, they take their time getting back to you, left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing etc etc.

It’s hard to describe until it happens- something run of the mill comes up regarding schedules, credits, housing, what have you, and suddenly you’re dealing with a completely defensive and murky bureaucracy over there.

St Andrews has gotten very popular, and it’s easier for them to show kids the door and say “if you don’t like it- leave” than to put in a little effort to assist the students they already have.

We were disappointed that after two great years at St Andrews, with excellent grades to show for it, they weren’t interested in keeping a successful student on campus that had come to feel like home to him.

This also speaks to the social difficulty of the dual degree programs, but that’s a different conversation.

Before your student says yes to St Andrews, remember the decision makers in the administration really do not care about your student at all in the way an American University would - an American University wants high retention rates and graduation rates.

I suspect the high rankings for St Andrews may come from students who like the town, the parties and the societies, all great assets.

It doesn’t seem like a something to consider until it happens to your student- this university sees itself as the customer, they want us to make their job easier. and the customer is always right.

This indifference to Americans is exactly what my DD is experiencing at Oxford. We Americans are a necessary evil. They put up with us because they want our $$. Don't enter the system thinking it will offer any kind of service that you might expect from American schools.

I was a grad student at St. Andrews a while back. I had no complaints, but it was pretty amazing how little the faculty & staff thought of undergrads. They even turned off their heat at night in the dorms.

The best of both worlds is to go to an American college for undergrad, & then do a master’s and/or doctorate in the UK. Their grad degrees are usually quite streamlined compared to their American equivalents.

Agree! Oxford also did not turn on the heat in those stone dorms with obsolete, drafty windows until late Nov during one of England's many energy crises

[Anonymous]

St Andrews take US and other international students with much lower academic achievements than those UK students are required to obtain. Unsurprisingly this causes resentment and irritation. Oxbridge don’t do this as they don’t need the money although they do take done postgrads with highly dubious academics if they might help them win the boat race!!

[Anonymous]

St Andrews is a phenomenal school! I would send my student there ALL over again over Oxbridge schools in a heartbeat!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews is a phenomenal school! I would send my student there ALL over again over Oxbridge schools in a heartbeat!

Why? I wouldn't

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the old guard from Oxford and Cambridge are upset because St Andrews is knock, knocking, knocking on the door of their vaunted place atop the UK University system.

Yep! That is exactly what it is! The British don’t like that their elite universities have St Andrews nipping at their heals…

Actually, they don't care. and I'm at Oxford as I type

I think your comment on this here St. Andrew's thread went right over your head. What is it like to so blissfully lack self-awareness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great school for an independent American student, but not for everyone. Has the highest entry standard for any UK university - https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?sortby=entry-standards

No, that would be Cambridge and Oxford. Everyone in England knows that. Plus the applicant pools are very different. Students in England are in a system that tries to siphon off the appropriate students to trades early on. THAT, combined with A levels means that only the very top students apply to Oxford or Cambridge (you must pick). If they have to drop down it's not to St Andrews. More like Imperial College

Look at UCAS points. St Andrews top the charts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the old guard from Oxford and Cambridge are upset because St Andrews is knock, knocking, knocking on the door of their vaunted place atop the UK University system.

Yep! That is exactly what it is! The British don’t like that their elite universities have St Andrews nipping at their heals…

Actually, they don't care. and I'm at Oxford as I type

I think your comment on this here St. Andrew's thread went right over your head. What is it like to so blissfully lack self-awareness?

you could try reading before posting. The PP said that Oxford was concerned that St. Andrews is nipping at its heels. Absurd comment. Oxford doesn't give a fig about St. Andrews because it doesn't need to.

[Anonymous]

Comparing Oxford to St Andrews is like comparing Harvard to Dartmouth/Brown. Two totally different types of school.

St Andrews will never have the same worldwide prestige because it has less graduate students/publications. Nevertheless, St Andrews is regarded as an elite university. St Andrews alumni do very well after graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the old guard from Oxford and Cambridge are upset because St Andrews is knock, knocking, knocking on the door of their vaunted place atop the UK University system.

Yep! That is exactly what it is! The British don’t like that their elite universities have St Andrews nipping at their heals…

Actually, they don't care. and I'm at Oxford as I type

I think your comment on this here St. Andrew's thread went right over your head. What is it like to so blissfully lack self-awareness?

you could try reading before posting. The PP said that Oxford was concerned that St. Andrews is nipping at its heels. Absurd comment. Oxford doesn't give a fig about St. Andrews because it doesn't need to.

Yet Oxford students hang out on St. Andrew’s threads: look up every know and then; there seems to be quite a bit over your head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok all, I had been half-following this conversation as my son has been happily enrolled in the William and Mary/St Andrews dual degree program, and unfortunately now I agree with the poster who was unhappy with the administration.

My son had an excellent two years at St Andrews, and requested to transfer to enroll full time at St Andrews to complete his degree. Excellent grades to support his application.

His application was denied, without any real explanation as to why, ok fine.

OP is right - the WAY he was treated was so different than if he’d been dealing with an American University.

As he was waiting to hear about his application, they were unresponsive, dragged their feet, didn’t get back to him for literal months after he submitted it. To the point where it interfered with his ability to plan for next year - class sign ups, housing, employment… his requests for a date he’d hear by were met with a shrug.

For the University to treat their own students as so unimportant - they don’t merit communication or clarity from the University. Can’t plan lives, income, housing, travel, visas… they have been vague and standoffish at best to deal with.

Before everyone piles on about “boo hoo Americans expect special treatment”, consider this-

It’s St Andrews that is expecting special treatment from the Americans. We agree to to pay their full American rates- a price that UK citizens wouldn’t dream of paying. We do, and they tell us it’s a bargain. Ok fine.
Our son received in turn disorganized and unprofessional experience from the St Andrews administration on several occasions.

Don’t get me wrong- the students, the societies, the beautiful setting are so special. The faculty within the schools are helpful and they do care. No problem with the faculty. I suspect the faculty and the administration are at odds.

The administration itself from the top down, my son described, has an antagonistic relationship with its students.

They won’t meet with you, can’t be bothered to work with you, they take their time getting back to you, left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing etc etc.

It’s hard to describe until it happens- something run of the mill comes up regarding schedules, credits, housing, what have you, and suddenly you’re dealing with a completely defensive and murky bureaucracy over there.

St Andrews has gotten very popular, and it’s easier for them to show kids the door and say “if you don’t like it- leave” than to put in a little effort to assist the students they already have.

We were disappointed that after two great years at St Andrews, with excellent grades to show for it, they weren’t interested in keeping a successful student on campus that had come to feel like home to him.

This also speaks to the social difficulty of the dual degree programs, but that’s a different conversation.

Before your student says yes to St Andrews, remember the decision makers in the administration really do not care about your student at all in the way an American University would - an American University wants high retention rates and graduation rates.

I suspect the high rankings for St Andrews may come from students who like the town, the parties and the societies, all great assets.

It doesn’t seem like a something to consider until it happens to your student- this university sees itself as the customer, they want us to make their job easier. and the customer is always right.

This indifference to Americans is exactly what my DD is experiencing at Oxford. We Americans are a necessary evil. They put up with us because they want our $$. Don't enter the system thinking it will offer any kind of service that you might expect from American schools.

i thought you started at W&M?