Has Duran gone mad? (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very sorry PP. so angry that APS is doing this to teachers for what amounts to DL in school. It is not a magically better instructional option. All it brings is risk. I am keeping my kids home to protect them and teachers. But I know that doesn’t help you. We’re at one of the crazy high hybrid middle schools.

It break the ice and helps set the stage for next year. It's not practical to think we'll flip the switch and just return to the classroom next school year. But feel free to wander around your house shaking your fists in anger.

Putting teachers at risk at the height of the pandemic to “break the ice.” Arlington parents at their very best.

It needs to happen. Call it whatever you want. The DL model is not sustainable and is causing catastrophic damage.

The virus and the USA’s incredibly inept and corrupt handling of it has caused catastrophic damage. Distance learning, hybrid learning, concurrent learning, a vaccine which “Operation Warp Speed” can’t produce and distribute fast enough, angry and resentful parents and teachers... it’s all part of the same bag of bad side effects. Have your kids learn a European or Asian language. They may need the option to emigrate in the future.

Amen

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very sorry PP. so angry that APS is doing this to teachers for what amounts to DL in school. It is not a magically better instructional option. All it brings is risk. I am keeping my kids home to protect them and teachers. But I know that doesn’t help you. We’re at one of the crazy high hybrid middle schools.

What do you mean it amounts to DL in school? Privates in the area are certainly providing a much better in-person education that the DL garbage we get. (And yes teachers are working very hard, but it doesn't matter how hard you work if it isn't translating to learning. Sure, parents with fancy jobs that can work from home or SAHPs can make DL work. Congrats for you! The vast majority are flailing.) The keep APS closed crowd has not been able to point to any science or research to support their position. They are the anti-science crowd.

Chill. Maybe you are an elementary parent, in that case then DL and hybrid will be different. But for middle and high, the concurrent plan is DL in school. That is very clear. It’s not a debate. Our APS principal made that clear. Privates may do it differently but our principal said in APS the only way they can do concurrent is everyone on devices with headphones. I am a MS parent who was talking to a HS teacher. For 6-12, it will be DL at school.

DP. Even if that’s what it looks like, many secondary students would benefit from being in a classroom with an aide who will make sure students stay on task.

Aide?? In high school?? Lololol.

If kids come in, I expect them to work. I will tell them to stay on task. If they don’t, i’m too busy teaching the online kids to bother. It’s their choice if they come in and do nothing.

If you are physically in the classroom, then it will not be the same as distance learning.

Your kid won’t magically pay attention. It’s just you won’t be the witness any longer.

I’ve laid out for my middle schooler the parade of horribles on what hybrid might be like, and he still really wants to go back. When asked why, he said that even with everyone being in separate rooms with doors closed, he still sometimes hears his sister’s lesson in the next room (especially when she has music or PE) and finds it really distracting in a way that kids on separate tasks in a classroom never was. He said he also finds his mind wanders and he gets off task far more easily sitting at a desk in our guest room (which has nothing but his school stuff in it) than he ever did in a classroom. Even seeing all of the worst case scenarios, he firmly believes he would learn more effectively in the school building than at home.

He also thinks he would manage his time better if his independent/asynchronous work times were in the building where the expectation is that he’d sit at his desk and work during those times than he does at home when there’s accountability during those periods so it’s easy to just take a break and push off the work until after the school day. If I see him downstairs during an asynchronous time, I’ll tell him to go back upstairs and do his schoolwork, but if I’m on a work call and can’t check on him, that doesn’t happen.

He wants to be in the building, even with everything you describe, because he believes he will still learn more effectively there, and he can point to concrete and specific reasons why. It’s hard to argue with that he’s wrong.

I have similar issues to your middle schooler. I thought about going in to work from the building, but I am in one of the zip codes with a high rate of cases, and received about 5 emails last month alerting me to positive cases and quarantines at the school. It sounds like you have taken the right steps setting up a designated workspace for him. Perhaps you need to make it a bit cozier and more comfortable so that it isn’t too spartan? Could you get him fish or a pet lizard or hamster for the room? Colorful cushions? Or maybe you need to make it more office like with a nice office chair and a whiteboard and calendar? Definitely try noise canceling headphones, ear plugs, or classical music if he is noise sensitive.

DP. He clearly wants the structure that a school building provides. The same way that many people prefer going into the office building to delineate home and work. A pet lizard isn't going to help with that. Or maybe it will. Maybe schools should start handing out lizards with the laptops...

Jesus. Never mind, then. I was just trying to be helpful in the event that he doesn’t get to go back in the building in January!

I am the poster to whom you originally responded with suggestions. I understand that you were trying to be helpful, I really do. But it is also tiresome, because underlying your suggestions is an assumption that I'm some lazy, disengaged, etc., parent who just isn't trying hard enough to help her child learn effectively. That I'm just screaming for schools to open because I don't want to parent my kid.

I have engaged. I have thrown everything I have into this, plus time and money I don't, to try to make distance learning work for him because I appreciate that if we could make distance learning effective for everyone, it would solve this whole issue because we would simply continue with distance learning until the pandemic is over. But distance learning isn't working for him. In some ways, I'd rather see APS punt on this whole school year, just cancel it and repeat the year next year, because I'm deeply worried that my child is getting left behind and that no one in the schools is going to take responsibility for making up what he didn't learn this year.

I'm also worried about the toll this is taking on him mentally. He is now in teletherapy (that I'm running up credit card debt to pay for) because the effects of the isolation became so bad that I was worried he was going to hurt himself. He is in sixth grade, in a bunch of classes with kids he doesn't know (because his school somehow managed to put him in classes with almost no one from his elementary school). His middle school has done virtually nothing to help the sixth graders integrate socially through this, so online learning has become a huge source of anxiety for him, always worried about whether his picture is showing on everyone else's screen (and afraid to speak up to ask a question because then he'll definitely be on everyone's screens, even after he's done talking) and a bunch of kids who barely know him will see him doing something embarrassing and that's how everyone at middle school will know him going forward. If I didn't have to work, I would withdraw him and homeschool because I am that worried about the toll this is taking on him, but becoming homeless would take an even worse toll.

So please, go ahead and keep assuming that I'm just some ignorant, disengaged parent who doesn't care about teachers, but also know that your assumptions are false and offensive. I care about the teachers, but I can't care about them more than I care about my own child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very sorry PP. so angry that APS is doing this to teachers for what amounts to DL in school. It is not a magically better instructional option. All it brings is risk. I am keeping my kids home to protect them and teachers. But I know that doesn’t help you. We’re at one of the crazy high hybrid middle schools.

What do you mean it amounts to DL in school? Privates in the area are certainly providing a much better in-person education that the DL garbage we get. (And yes teachers are working very hard, but it doesn't matter how hard you work if it isn't translating to learning. Sure, parents with fancy jobs that can work from home or SAHPs can make DL work. Congrats for you! The vast majority are flailing.) The keep APS closed crowd has not been able to point to any science or research to support their position. They are the anti-science crowd.

Chill. Maybe you are an elementary parent, in that case then DL and hybrid will be different. But for middle and high, the concurrent plan is DL in school. That is very clear. It’s not a debate. Our APS principal made that clear. Privates may do it differently but our principal said in APS the only way they can do concurrent is everyone on devices with headphones. I am a MS parent who was talking to a HS teacher. For 6-12, it will be DL at school.

DP. Even if that’s what it looks like, many secondary students would benefit from being in a classroom with an aide who will make sure students stay on task.

Aide?? In high school?? Lololol.

If kids come in, I expect them to work. I will tell them to stay on task. If they don’t, i’m too busy teaching the online kids to bother. It’s their choice if they come in and do nothing.

If you are physically in the classroom, then it will not be the same as distance learning.

Your kid won’t magically pay attention. It’s just you won’t be the witness any longer.

I’ve laid out for my middle schooler the parade of horribles on what hybrid might be like, and he still really wants to go back. When asked why, he said that even with everyone being in separate rooms with doors closed, he still sometimes hears his sister’s lesson in the next room (especially when she has music or PE) and finds it really distracting in a way that kids on separate tasks in a classroom never was. He said he also finds his mind wanders and he gets off task far more easily sitting at a desk in our guest room (which has nothing but his school stuff in it) than he ever did in a classroom. Even seeing all of the worst case scenarios, he firmly believes he would learn more effectively in the school building than at home.

He also thinks he would manage his time better if his independent/asynchronous work times were in the building where the expectation is that he’d sit at his desk and work during those times than he does at home when there’s accountability during those periods so it’s easy to just take a break and push off the work until after the school day. If I see him downstairs during an asynchronous time, I’ll tell him to go back upstairs and do his schoolwork, but if I’m on a work call and can’t check on him, that doesn’t happen.

He wants to be in the building, even with everything you describe, because he believes he will still learn more effectively there, and he can point to concrete and specific reasons why. It’s hard to argue with that he’s wrong.

I have similar issues to your middle schooler. I thought about going in to work from the building, but I am in one of the zip codes with a high rate of cases, and received about 5 emails last month alerting me to positive cases and quarantines at the school. It sounds like you have taken the right steps setting up a designated workspace for him. Perhaps you need to make it a bit cozier and more comfortable so that it isn’t too spartan? Could you get him fish or a pet lizard or hamster for the room? Colorful cushions? Or maybe you need to make it more office like with a nice office chair and a whiteboard and calendar? Definitely try noise canceling headphones, ear plugs, or classical music if he is noise sensitive.

DP. He clearly wants the structure that a school building provides. The same way that many people prefer going into the office building to delineate home and work. A pet lizard isn't going to help with that. Or maybe it will. Maybe schools should start handing out lizards with the laptops...

Jesus. Never mind, then. I was just trying to be helpful in the event that he doesn’t get to go back in the building in January!

I am the poster to whom you originally responded with suggestions. I understand that you were trying to be helpful, I really do. But it is also tiresome, because underlying your suggestions is an assumption that I'm some lazy, disengaged, etc., parent who just isn't trying hard enough to help her child learn effectively. That I'm just screaming for schools to open because I don't want to parent my kid.

I have engaged. I have thrown everything I have into this, plus time and money I don't, to try to make distance learning work for him because I appreciate that if we could make distance learning effective for everyone, it would solve this whole issue because we would simply continue with distance learning until the pandemic is over. But distance learning isn't working for him. In some ways, I'd rather see APS punt on this whole school year, just cancel it and repeat the year next year, because I'm deeply worried that my child is getting left behind and that no one in the schools is going to take responsibility for making up what he didn't learn this year.

I'm also worried about the toll this is taking on him mentally. He is now in teletherapy (that I'm running up credit card debt to pay for) because the effects of the isolation became so bad that I was worried he was going to hurt himself. He is in sixth grade, in a bunch of classes with kids he doesn't know (because his school somehow managed to put him in classes with almost no one from his elementary school). His middle school has done virtually nothing to help the sixth graders integrate socially through this, so online learning has become a huge source of anxiety for him, always worried about whether his picture is showing on everyone else's screen (and afraid to speak up to ask a question because then he'll definitely be on everyone's screens, even after he's done talking) and a bunch of kids who barely know him will see him doing something embarrassing and that's how everyone at middle school will know him going forward. If I didn't have to work, I would withdraw him and homeschool because I am that worried about the toll this is taking on him, but becoming homeless would take an even worse toll.

So please, go ahead and keep assuming that I'm just some ignorant, disengaged parent who doesn't care about teachers, but also know that your assumptions are false and offensive. I care about the teachers, but I can't care about them more than I care about my own child.

Wonderfully articulated. The "if DL is not working for you, then you're a terrible parent that just wants childcare" narrative has been disingenuous and insulting from the start.

[Anonymous]

Most people aren’t judging those who want to be back in the classroom. I’d love my kids to be back in the classroom. But there is still safety to consider. It’s not safe right now, even if it’s very important for your child to be back. Just cause they should have been back in in September doesn’t mean they should be back in now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people aren’t judging those who want to be back in the classroom. I’d love my kids to be back in the classroom. But there is still safety to consider. It’s not safe right now, even if it’s very important for your child to be back. Just cause they should have been back in in September doesn’t mean they should be back in now.

Perhaps most people, but there are certainly some crazies here that fall into that category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people aren’t judging those who want to be back in the classroom. I’d love my kids to be back in the classroom. But there is still safety to consider. It’s not safe right now, even if it’s very important for your child to be back. Just cause they should have been back in in September doesn’t mean they should be back in now.

Perhaps most people, but there are certainly some crazies here that fall into that category.

True enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people aren’t judging those who want to be back in the classroom. I’d love my kids to be back in the classroom. But there is still safety to consider. It’s not safe right now, even if it’s very important for your child to be back. Just cause they should have been back in in September doesn’t mean they should be back in now.

You are entitled to your opinion, but please know that keeping students home is not a harmless alternative. Even beyond the learning loss for totally typical students, there are children who are now suffering from depression and engaging in self-harm. There are suicides. There is increased child abuse happening at home. There are students with special needs who will age out of services this year or next who aren't getting necessary job training and other skills development, which will put them at increased risk of homelessness, substance abuse, and premature death. So when you take that position, you are not advocating for a solution that is clearly safer overall, you have simply weighed the risks and made a value judgment about who you feel is expendable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very sorry PP. so angry that APS is doing this to teachers for what amounts to DL in school. It is not a magically better instructional option. All it brings is risk. I am keeping my kids home to protect them and teachers. But I know that doesn’t help you. We’re at one of the crazy high hybrid middle schools.

What do you mean it amounts to DL in school? Privates in the area are certainly providing a much better in-person education that the DL garbage we get. (And yes teachers are working very hard, but it doesn't matter how hard you work if it isn't translating to learning. Sure, parents with fancy jobs that can work from home or SAHPs can make DL work. Congrats for you! The vast majority are flailing.) The keep APS closed crowd has not been able to point to any science or research to support their position. They are the anti-science crowd.

Chill. Maybe you are an elementary parent, in that case then DL and hybrid will be different. But for middle and high, the concurrent plan is DL in school. That is very clear. It’s not a debate. Our APS principal made that clear. Privates may do it differently but our principal said in APS the only way they can do concurrent is everyone on devices with headphones. I am a MS parent who was talking to a HS teacher. For 6-12, it will be DL at school.

DP. Even if that’s what it looks like, many secondary students would benefit from being in a classroom with an aide who will make sure students stay on task.

Aide?? In high school?? Lololol.

If kids come in, I expect them to work. I will tell them to stay on task. If they don’t, i’m too busy teaching the online kids to bother. It’s their choice if they come in and do nothing.

If you are physically in the classroom, then it will not be the same as distance learning.

Your kid won’t magically pay attention. It’s just you won’t be the witness any longer.

I’ve laid out for my middle schooler the parade of horribles on what hybrid might be like, and he still really wants to go back. When asked why, he said that even with everyone being in separate rooms with doors closed, he still sometimes hears his sister’s lesson in the next room (especially when she has music or PE) and finds it really distracting in a way that kids on separate tasks in a classroom never was. He said he also finds his mind wanders and he gets off task far more easily sitting at a desk in our guest room (which has nothing but his school stuff in it) than he ever did in a classroom. Even seeing all of the worst case scenarios, he firmly believes he would learn more effectively in the school building than at home.

He also thinks he would manage his time better if his independent/asynchronous work times were in the building where the expectation is that he’d sit at his desk and work during those times than he does at home when there’s accountability during those periods so it’s easy to just take a break and push off the work until after the school day. If I see him downstairs during an asynchronous time, I’ll tell him to go back upstairs and do his schoolwork, but if I’m on a work call and can’t check on him, that doesn’t happen.

He wants to be in the building, even with everything you describe, because he believes he will still learn more effectively there, and he can point to concrete and specific reasons why. It’s hard to argue with that he’s wrong.

I have similar issues to your middle schooler. I thought about going in to work from the building, but I am in one of the zip codes with a high rate of cases, and received about 5 emails last month alerting me to positive cases and quarantines at the school. It sounds like you have taken the right steps setting up a designated workspace for him. Perhaps you need to make it a bit cozier and more comfortable so that it isn’t too spartan? Could you get him fish or a pet lizard or hamster for the room? Colorful cushions? Or maybe you need to make it more office like with a nice office chair and a whiteboard and calendar? Definitely try noise canceling headphones, ear plugs, or classical music if he is noise sensitive.

DP. He clearly wants the structure that a school building provides. The same way that many people prefer going into the office building to delineate home and work. A pet lizard isn't going to help with that. Or maybe it will. Maybe schools should start handing out lizards with the laptops...

Jesus. Never mind, then. I was just trying to be helpful in the event that he doesn’t get to go back in the building in January!

I am the poster to whom you originally responded with suggestions. I understand that you were trying to be helpful, I really do. But it is also tiresome, because underlying your suggestions is an assumption that I'm some lazy, disengaged, etc., parent who just isn't trying hard enough to help her child learn effectively. That I'm just screaming for schools to open because I don't want to parent my kid.

I have engaged. I have thrown everything I have into this, plus time and money I don't, to try to make distance learning work for him because I appreciate that if we could make distance learning effective for everyone, it would solve this whole issue because we would simply continue with distance learning until the pandemic is over. But distance learning isn't working for him. In some ways, I'd rather see APS punt on this whole school year, just cancel it and repeat the year next year, because I'm deeply worried that my child is getting left behind and that no one in the schools is going to take responsibility for making up what he didn't learn this year.

I'm also worried about the toll this is taking on him mentally. He is now in teletherapy (that I'm running up credit card debt to pay for) because the effects of the isolation became so bad that I was worried he was going to hurt himself. He is in sixth grade, in a bunch of classes with kids he doesn't know (because his school somehow managed to put him in classes with almost no one from his elementary school). His middle school has done virtually nothing to help the sixth graders integrate socially through this, so online learning has become a huge source of anxiety for him, always worried about whether his picture is showing on everyone else's screen (and afraid to speak up to ask a question because then he'll definitely be on everyone's screens, even after he's done talking) and a bunch of kids who barely know him will see him doing something embarrassing and that's how everyone at middle school will know him going forward. If I didn't have to work, I would withdraw him and homeschool because I am that worried about the toll this is taking on him, but becoming homeless would take an even worse toll.

So please, go ahead and keep assuming that I'm just some ignorant, disengaged parent who doesn't care about teachers, but also know that your assumptions are false and offensive. I care about the teachers, but I can't care about them more than I care about my own child.

What?! I don’t know where all these assumptions are coming from. You sound like a great parent. I was impressed you set up a designated workspace for him, and that you listened so carefully to his concerns and needs about returning to school. I responded out of sympathy for your child. I have about a 100 essays I need to grade and lessons to prepare and the last thing I want to do is sit at my computer by myself in MY designated workspace. My ideal scenario would be getting that damn vaccine — like this weekend if possible — and then going back to normal school and not this hybrid/ concurrent nonsense. I just don’t like to get my hopes up about any particular outcome because it absolutely crushes me when what I start hoping for and wanting very badly doesn’t come to pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very sorry PP. so angry that APS is doing this to teachers for what amounts to DL in school. It is not a magically better instructional option. All it brings is risk. I am keeping my kids home to protect them and teachers. But I know that doesn’t help you. We’re at one of the crazy high hybrid middle schools.

What do you mean it amounts to DL in school? Privates in the area are certainly providing a much better in-person education that the DL garbage we get. (And yes teachers are working very hard, but it doesn't matter how hard you work if it isn't translating to learning. Sure, parents with fancy jobs that can work from home or SAHPs can make DL work. Congrats for you! The vast majority are flailing.) The keep APS closed crowd has not been able to point to any science or research to support their position. They are the anti-science crowd.

Chill. Maybe you are an elementary parent, in that case then DL and hybrid will be different. But for middle and high, the concurrent plan is DL in school. That is very clear. It’s not a debate. Our APS principal made that clear. Privates may do it differently but our principal said in APS the only way they can do concurrent is everyone on devices with headphones. I am a MS parent who was talking to a HS teacher. For 6-12, it will be DL at school.

DP. Even if that’s what it looks like, many secondary students would benefit from being in a classroom with an aide who will make sure students stay on task.

Aide?? In high school?? Lololol.

If kids come in, I expect them to work. I will tell them to stay on task. If they don’t, i’m too busy teaching the online kids to bother. It’s their choice if they come in and do nothing.

If you are physically in the classroom, then it will not be the same as distance learning.

Your kid won’t magically pay attention. It’s just you won’t be the witness any longer.

I’ve laid out for my middle schooler the parade of horribles on what hybrid might be like, and he still really wants to go back. When asked why, he said that even with everyone being in separate rooms with doors closed, he still sometimes hears his sister’s lesson in the next room (especially when she has music or PE) and finds it really distracting in a way that kids on separate tasks in a classroom never was. He said he also finds his mind wanders and he gets off task far more easily sitting at a desk in our guest room (which has nothing but his school stuff in it) than he ever did in a classroom. Even seeing all of the worst case scenarios, he firmly believes he would learn more effectively in the school building than at home.

He also thinks he would manage his time better if his independent/asynchronous work times were in the building where the expectation is that he’d sit at his desk and work during those times than he does at home when there’s accountability during those periods so it’s easy to just take a break and push off the work until after the school day. If I see him downstairs during an asynchronous time, I’ll tell him to go back upstairs and do his schoolwork, but if I’m on a work call and can’t check on him, that doesn’t happen.

He wants to be in the building, even with everything you describe, because he believes he will still learn more effectively there, and he can point to concrete and specific reasons why. It’s hard to argue with that he’s wrong.

I have similar issues to your middle schooler. I thought about going in to work from the building, but I am in one of the zip codes with a high rate of cases, and received about 5 emails last month alerting me to positive cases and quarantines at the school. It sounds like you have taken the right steps setting up a designated workspace for him. Perhaps you need to make it a bit cozier and more comfortable so that it isn’t too spartan? Could you get him fish or a pet lizard or hamster for the room? Colorful cushions? Or maybe you need to make it more office like with a nice office chair and a whiteboard and calendar? Definitely try noise canceling headphones, ear plugs, or classical music if he is noise sensitive.

DP. He clearly wants the structure that a school building provides. The same way that many people prefer going into the office building to delineate home and work. A pet lizard isn't going to help with that. Or maybe it will. Maybe schools should start handing out lizards with the laptops...

Jesus. Never mind, then. I was just trying to be helpful in the event that he doesn’t get to go back in the building in January!

I am the poster to whom you originally responded with suggestions. I understand that you were trying to be helpful, I really do. But it is also tiresome, because underlying your suggestions is an assumption that I'm some lazy, disengaged, etc., parent who just isn't trying hard enough to help her child learn effectively. That I'm just screaming for schools to open because I don't want to parent my kid.

I have engaged. I have thrown everything I have into this, plus time and money I don't, to try to make distance learning work for him because I appreciate that if we could make distance learning effective for everyone, it would solve this whole issue because we would simply continue with distance learning until the pandemic is over. But distance learning isn't working for him. In some ways, I'd rather see APS punt on this whole school year, just cancel it and repeat the year next year, because I'm deeply worried that my child is getting left behind and that no one in the schools is going to take responsibility for making up what he didn't learn this year.

I'm also worried about the toll this is taking on him mentally. He is now in teletherapy (that I'm running up credit card debt to pay for) because the effects of the isolation became so bad that I was worried he was going to hurt himself. He is in sixth grade, in a bunch of classes with kids he doesn't know (because his school somehow managed to put him in classes with almost no one from his elementary school). His middle school has done virtually nothing to help the sixth graders integrate socially through this, so online learning has become a huge source of anxiety for him, always worried about whether his picture is showing on everyone else's screen (and afraid to speak up to ask a question because then he'll definitely be on everyone's screens, even after he's done talking) and a bunch of kids who barely know him will see him doing something embarrassing and that's how everyone at middle school will know him going forward. If I didn't have to work, I would withdraw him and homeschool because I am that worried about the toll this is taking on him, but becoming homeless would take an even worse toll.

So please, go ahead and keep assuming that I'm just some ignorant, disengaged parent who doesn't care about teachers, but also know that your assumptions are false and offensive. I care about the teachers, but I can't care about them more than I care about my own child.

What?! I don’t know where all these assumptions are coming from. You sound like a great parent. I was impressed you set up a designated workspace for him, and that you listened so carefully to his concerns and needs about returning to school. I responded out of sympathy for your child. I have about a 100 essays I need to grade and lessons to prepare and the last thing I want to do is sit at my computer by myself in MY designated workspace. My ideal scenario would be getting that damn vaccine — like this weekend if possible — and then going back to normal school and not this hybrid/ concurrent nonsense. I just don’t like to get my hopes up about any particular outcome because it absolutely crushes me when what I start hoping for and wanting very badly doesn’t come to pass.

Just stop.

This discussion isn't about how to maximize student success in the distance learning environment (although you are free to start your own separate discussion of that), it is about whether it is "mad" to make an increased effort at reopening based on the increasing volume of data showing how students are struggling and suffering in the distance learning environment when weighed against the risks of reopening. I don't know if your efforts to derail that discussion are conscious or just thoughtless and tone deaf, but they are not relevant or constructive here. If you want to have an on-topic discussion, I will do so, but I am not going to engage further on this tangent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people aren’t judging those who want to be back in the classroom. I’d love my kids to be back in the classroom. But there is still safety to consider. It’s not safe right now, even if it’s very important for your child to be back. Just cause they should have been back in in September doesn’t mean they should be back in now.

You are entitled to your opinion, but please know that keeping students home is not a harmless alternative. Even beyond the learning loss for totally typical students, there are children who are now suffering from depression and engaging in self-harm. There are suicides. There is increased child abuse happening at home. There are students with special needs who will age out of services this year or next who aren't getting necessary job training and other skills development, which will put them at increased risk of homelessness, substance abuse, and premature death. So when you take that position, you are not advocating for a solution that is clearly safer overall, you have simply weighed the risks and made a value judgment about who you feel is expendable.

And where do the teachers fit in to your world where everyone makes their own determination about what’s safe? Do you REALLY think that it’s safe to go back hybrid based on the numbers right now?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Most people aren’t judging those who want to be back in the classroom. I’d love my kids to be back in the classroom. But there is still safety to consider. It’s not safe right now, even if it’s very important for your child to be back. Just cause they should have been back in in September doesn’t mean they should be back in now.

You are entitled to your opinion, but please know that keeping students home is not a harmless alternative. Even beyond the learning loss for totally typical students, there are children who are now suffering from depression and engaging in self-harm. There are suicides. There is increased child abuse happening at home. There are students with special needs who will age out of services this year or next who aren't getting necessary job training and other skills development, which will put them at increased risk of homelessness, substance abuse, and premature death. So when you take that position, you are not advocating for a solution that is clearly safer overall, you have simply weighed the risks and made a value judgment about who you feel is expendable.

And going to the school 2x a week is at best a bandaid to pretend those issues are fixed while they are not

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Very sorry PP. so angry that APS is doing this to teachers for what amounts to DL in school. It is not a magically better instructional option. All it brings is risk. I am keeping my kids home to protect them and teachers. But I know that doesn’t help you. We’re at one of the crazy high hybrid middle schools.

What do you mean it amounts to DL in school? Privates in the area are certainly providing a much better in-person education that the DL garbage we get. (And yes teachers are working very hard, but it doesn't matter how hard you work if it isn't translating to learning. Sure, parents with fancy jobs that can work from home or SAHPs can make DL work. Congrats for you! The vast majority are flailing.) The keep APS closed crowd has not been able to point to any science or research to support their position. They are the anti-science crowd.

Chill. Maybe you are an elementary parent, in that case then DL and hybrid will be different. But for middle and high, the concurrent plan is DL in school. That is very clear. It’s not a debate. Our APS principal made that clear. Privates may do it differently but our principal said in APS the only way they can do concurrent is everyone on devices with headphones. I am a MS parent who was talking to a HS teacher. For 6-12, it will be DL at school.

DP. Even if that’s what it looks like, many secondary students would benefit from being in a classroom with an aide who will make sure students stay on task.

Aide?? In high school?? Lololol.

If kids come in, I expect them to work. I will tell them to stay on task. If they don’t, i’m too busy teaching the online kids to bother. It’s their choice if they come in and do nothing.

If you are physically in the classroom, then it will not be the same as distance learning.

Your kid won’t magically pay attention. It’s just you won’t be the witness any longer.

I’ve laid out for my middle schooler the parade of horribles on what hybrid might be like, and he still really wants to go back. When asked why, he said that even with everyone being in separate rooms with doors closed, he still sometimes hears his sister’s lesson in the next room (especially when she has music or PE) and finds it really distracting in a way that kids on separate tasks in a classroom never was. He said he also finds his mind wanders and he gets off task far more easily sitting at a desk in our guest room (which has nothing but his school stuff in it) than he ever did in a classroom. Even seeing all of the worst case scenarios, he firmly believes he would learn more effectively in the school building than at home.

He also thinks he would manage his time better if his independent/asynchronous work times were in the building where the expectation is that he’d sit at his desk and work during those times than he does at home when there’s accountability during those periods so it’s easy to just take a break and push off the work until after the school day. If I see him downstairs during an asynchronous time, I’ll tell him to go back upstairs and do his schoolwork, but if I’m on a work call and can’t check on him, that doesn’t happen.

He wants to be in the building, even with everything you describe, because he believes he will still learn more effectively there, and he can point to concrete and specific reasons why. It’s hard to argue with that he’s wrong.

I have similar issues to your middle schooler. I thought about going in to work from the building, but I am in one of the zip codes with a high rate of cases, and received about 5 emails last month alerting me to positive cases and quarantines at the school. It sounds like you have taken the right steps setting up a designated workspace for him. Perhaps you need to make it a bit cozier and more comfortable so that it isn’t too spartan? Could you get him fish or a pet lizard or hamster for the room? Colorful cushions? Or maybe you need to make it more office like with a nice office chair and a whiteboard and calendar? Definitely try noise canceling headphones, ear plugs, or classical music if he is noise sensitive.

DP. He clearly wants the structure that a school building provides. The same way that many people prefer going into the office building to delineate home and work. A pet lizard isn't going to help with that. Or maybe it will. Maybe schools should start handing out lizards with the laptops...

Jesus. Never mind, then. I was just trying to be helpful in the event that he doesn’t get to go back in the building in January!

I am the poster to whom you originally responded with suggestions. I understand that you were trying to be helpful, I really do. But it is also tiresome, because underlying your suggestions is an assumption that I'm some lazy, disengaged, etc., parent who just isn't trying hard enough to help her child learn effectively. That I'm just screaming for schools to open because I don't want to parent my kid.

I have engaged. I have thrown everything I have into this, plus time and money I don't, to try to make distance learning work for him because I appreciate that if we could make distance learning effective for everyone, it would solve this whole issue because we would simply continue with distance learning until the pandemic is over. But distance learning isn't working for him. In some ways, I'd rather see APS punt on this whole school year, just cancel it and repeat the year next year, because I'm deeply worried that my child is getting left behind and that no one in the schools is going to take responsibility for making up what he didn't learn this year.

I'm also worried about the toll this is taking on him mentally. He is now in teletherapy (that I'm running up credit card debt to pay for) because the effects of the isolation became so bad that I was worried he was going to hurt himself. He is in sixth grade, in a bunch of classes with kids he doesn't know (because his school somehow managed to put him in classes with almost no one from his elementary school). His middle school has done virtually nothing to help the sixth graders integrate socially through this, so online learning has become a huge source of anxiety for him, always worried about whether his picture is showing on everyone else's screen (and afraid to speak up to ask a question because then he'll definitely be on everyone's screens, even after he's done talking) and a bunch of kids who barely know him will see him doing something embarrassing and that's how everyone at middle school will know him going forward. If I didn't have to work, I would withdraw him and homeschool because I am that worried about the toll this is taking on him, but becoming homeless would take an even worse toll.

So please, go ahead and keep assuming that I'm just some ignorant, disengaged parent who doesn't care about teachers, but also know that your assumptions are false and offensive. I care about the teachers, but I can't care about them more than I care about my own child.

What?! I don’t know where all these assumptions are coming from. You sound like a great parent. I was impressed you set up a designated workspace for him, and that you listened so carefully to his concerns and needs about returning to school. I responded out of sympathy for your child. I have about a 100 essays I need to grade and lessons to prepare and the last thing I want to do is sit at my computer by myself in MY designated workspace. My ideal scenario would be getting that damn vaccine — like this weekend if possible — and then going back to normal school and not this hybrid/ concurrent nonsense. I just don’t like to get my hopes up about any particular outcome because it absolutely crushes me when what I start hoping for and wanting very badly doesn’t come to pass.

You should get a pet hamster. Or maybe a lizard.

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Anonymous wrote:It will be what it looks like for 6-12. So consider that carefully for your kid in 6-12. Teachers may be in the room (not aides) but they will teach to the device. For concurrent, even at the highest hybrid schools (looking at you WMS) , 65%!or more of the kids will be home for each class under the concurrent model. Teachers have to teach through the device.

Yes. I have TWO groups of students to teach at once. My attention cannot be devoted to the few kids in the room exclusively. I can’t go within 6 feet of students or them me. They still need to be independently engaged and on task or hybrid isn’t going to be anymore beneficial to them than at home DL was.

So you think kids in hybrid will simply get up and walk away from the desk to look out a window with to the same frequency they do when they’re at home with their cameras off? And that if they do, you’ll be incapable of seeing them and telling them to sit back down?

Lmao what? Kids got up to walk around the room all the time in school. Sat on their phones too. Did you all literally forget or just never really know what normal school looked like??

If that is routinely happening (and the getting up isn’t part of a 504 or something), that’s poor classroom management, not a universal truth.

Wow you should definitely apply to be a teacher and go in. Sounds like you know everything and would kill it. Can’t wait to see how you just rock concurrent and get all kids to always obey every expectation and rule. You can’t even keep your own kid wandering to the window though

[Anonymous]

Make some room for kids with disabilities and kids with mental health problems and career center kids to go into the classroom with aides or teachers who volunteer. Why should all teachers need to go back and risk safety right now to serve the needs of a small percentage of kids. Plenty want to go back. But now right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Make some room for kids with disabilities and kids with mental health problems and career center kids to go into the classroom with aides or teachers who volunteer. Why should all teachers need to go back and risk safety right now to serve the needs of a small percentage of kids. Plenty want to go back. But now right now.

LOL, and then wait for the lawsuits to roll in.