"Opening up" means risking your life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Safe doesn't mean no one gets the virus. Safe means the hospitals are not overrun, that there are enough supplies and capacity to handle the demand, and that there is testing and tracing sufficient to identify and contain where needed.

We have NONE of that right now and the testing piece, which should have been the easiest, is the piece that is the furthest behind.

That is 100% on the Trump Administration.

Yes, the administration gets the blame. But is it factually accurate to say that “the hospitals” are overrun? Some may still be, but others are definitely not. Some hospitals are laying off employees. That’s all part of safe, but I think we have to think a little more broadly. Safe should mean that we have gotten to the point where we can say that there is close to zero chance of anything serious from the virus for most people. Whether that means waiting for a vaccine is to be determined.

A safe & effective coronavirus vaccine will not exist in our lifetimes because:
1.) the virus mutates too fast &
2.) mRNA vaccines are Frankenstein technology that will produce iatrogenic injury.

The junk science that the media is throwing out is giving people false hope. But there won’t be a cure or vaccine that is effective any time soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

Exactly what do you think should be done?

DP. Maybe just try to think a little harder about a response other than "you first" and stock market gains.

+1. It’s incredibly rude and out of touch.

It’s a bumper sticker, not an argument.

So, none of you guys have any idea what should be done but you definitely want someone else to go first. Have I got that right?

DP but masks and social distancing should be in place except for the actual current hot spots. Most people should be working again

DP. The problem is that the response has been all over the place. Some states, like MD where I live, have put forward a reasonable plan. When the criteria are met and I’m asked to go back to work and return the kids to school/daycare, I will go. I accept a certain level of risk- the point of the social distancing measures is largely to slow things down, not bubble wrap everyone until there is a vaccine. I know there is a good chance we will be exposed or get it at some point.

But then you have states like GA with idiot governors flying by the seat of their pants.

Don’t worry, this will be our future soon in MD. Only a matter of time.

It’s already happening, maybe just not that high tech- my brother is a cop in a midsize city and they have been busting “house parties” left and right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Safe doesn't mean no one gets the virus. Safe means the hospitals are not overrun, that there are enough supplies and capacity to handle the demand, and that there is testing and tracing sufficient to identify and contain where needed.

We have NONE of that right now and the testing piece, which should have been the easiest, is the piece that is the furthest behind.

That is 100% on the Trump Administration.

Yes, the administration gets the blame. But is it factually accurate to say that “the hospitals” are overrun? Some may still be, but others are definitely not. Some hospitals are laying off employees. That’s all part of safe, but I think we have to think a little more broadly. Safe should mean that we have gotten to the point where we can say that there is close to zero chance of anything serious from the virus for most people. Whether that means waiting for a vaccine is to be determined.

A safe & effective coronavirus vaccine will not exist in our lifetimes because:
1.) the virus mutates too fast &
2.) mRNA vaccines are Frankenstein technology that will produce iatrogenic injury.

The junk science that the media is throwing out is giving people false hope. But there won’t be a cure or vaccine that is effective any time soon.

Ummm... speaking of junk science. Please see all that you just wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

Exactly what do you think should be done?

DP. Maybe just try to think a little harder about a response other than "you first" and stock market gains.

+1. It’s incredibly rude and out of touch.

It’s a bumper sticker, not an argument.

So, none of you guys have any idea what should be done but you definitely want someone else to go first. Have I got that right?

DP but masks and social distancing should be in place except for the actual current hot spots. Most people should be working again

DP. The problem is that the response has been all over the place. Some states, like MD where I live, have put forward a reasonable plan. When the criteria are met and I’m asked to go back to work and return the kids to school/daycare, I will go. I accept a certain level of risk- the point of the social distancing measures is largely to slow things down, not bubble wrap everyone until there is a vaccine. I know there is a good chance we will be exposed or get it at some point.

But then you have states like GA with idiot governors flying by the seat of their pants.

Don’t worry, this will be our future soon in MD. Only a matter of time.

It’s already happening, maybe just not that high tech- my brother is a cop in a midsize city and they have been busting “house parties” left and right.

Is anyone actually arrested at these parties? If you really think that the cops have no right to shut down parties, then sue.

[Anonymous]

The lockdown is SLAVERY! <cough>

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Safe doesn't mean no one gets the virus. Safe means the hospitals are not overrun, that there are enough supplies and capacity to handle the demand, and that there is testing and tracing sufficient to identify and contain where needed.

We have NONE of that right now and the testing piece, which should have been the easiest, is the piece that is the furthest behind.

That is 100% on the Trump Administration.

Yes, the administration gets the blame. But is it factually accurate to say that “the hospitals” are overrun? Some may still be, but others are definitely not. Some hospitals are laying off employees. That’s all part of safe, but I think we have to think a little more broadly. Safe should mean that we have gotten to the point where we can say that there is close to zero chance of anything serious from the virus for most people. Whether that means waiting for a vaccine is to be determined.

A safe & effective coronavirus vaccine will not exist in our lifetimes because:
1.) the virus mutates too fast &
2.) mRNA vaccines are Frankenstein technology that will produce iatrogenic injury.

The junk science that the media is throwing out is giving people false hope. But there won’t be a cure or vaccine that is effective any time soon.

Ummm... speaking of junk science. Please see all that you just wrote.

Okay then explain how to create an effective vaccine against this. Seeing as how we don’t even have a solidified flu vaccine yet.

I’ll wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The lockdown is SLAVERY! <cough>

Says the guy who’s great-grandpappy fought against our own country to keep his slaves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Safe doesn't mean no one gets the virus. Safe means the hospitals are not overrun, that there are enough supplies and capacity to handle the demand, and that there is testing and tracing sufficient to identify and contain where needed.

We have NONE of that right now and the testing piece, which should have been the easiest, is the piece that is the furthest behind.

That is 100% on the Trump Administration.

I think it’s pretty clear that “safe” does not mean the same thing to all people. My interpretation is similar to yours, FWIW, but to our high risk friends, it means doing everything possible to never catch the virus. So when others venture out, it makes them feel less safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

Exactly what do you think should be done?

DP. Maybe just try to think a little harder about a response other than "you first" and stock market gains.

+1. It’s incredibly rude and out of touch.

It’s a bumper sticker, not an argument.

So, none of you guys have any idea what should be done but you definitely want someone else to go first. Have I got that right?

DP but masks and social distancing should be in place except for the actual current hot spots. Most people should be working again

DP. The problem is that the response has been all over the place. Some states, like MD where I live, have put forward a reasonable plan. When the criteria are met and I’m asked to go back to work and return the kids to school/daycare, I will go. I accept a certain level of risk- the point of the social distancing measures is largely to slow things down, not bubble wrap everyone until there is a vaccine. I know there is a good chance we will be exposed or get it at some point.

But then you have states like GA with idiot governors flying by the seat of their pants.

Don’t worry, this will be our future soon in MD. Only a matter of time.

It’s already happening, maybe just not that high tech- my brother is a cop in a midsize city and they have been busting “house parties” left and right.

Is anyone actually arrested at these parties? If you really think that the cops have no right to shut down parties, then sue.

It’s basically a money grab for the govt, at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Safe doesn't mean no one gets the virus. Safe means the hospitals are not overrun, that there are enough supplies and capacity to handle the demand, and that there is testing and tracing sufficient to identify and contain where needed.

We have NONE of that right now and the testing piece, which should have been the easiest, is the piece that is the furthest behind.

That is 100% on the Trump Administration.

I think it’s pretty clear that “safe” does not mean the same thing to all people. My interpretation is similar to yours, FWIW, but to our high risk friends, it means doing everything possible to never catch the virus. So when others venture out, it makes them feel less safe.

But if others are wearing masks and practicing social distancing, then the risk, per our experts, should be pretty low, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

Exactly what do you think should be done?

DP. Maybe just try to think a little harder about a response other than "you first" and stock market gains.

+1. It’s incredibly rude and out of touch.

It’s a bumper sticker, not an argument.

So, none of you guys have any idea what should be done but you definitely want someone else to go first. Have I got that right?

DP but masks and social distancing should be in place except for the actual current hot spots. Most people should be working again

DP. The problem is that the response has been all over the place. Some states, like MD where I live, have put forward a reasonable plan. When the criteria are met and I’m asked to go back to work and return the kids to school/daycare, I will go. I accept a certain level of risk- the point of the social distancing measures is largely to slow things down, not bubble wrap everyone until there is a vaccine. I know there is a good chance we will be exposed or get it at some point.

But then you have states like GA with idiot governors flying by the seat of their pants.

Don’t worry, this will be our future soon in MD. Only a matter of time.

It’s already happening, maybe just not that high tech- my brother is a cop in a midsize city and they have been busting “house parties” left and right.

Is anyone actually arrested at these parties? If you really think that the cops have no right to shut down parties, then sue.

Yes. And I didn’t say they have no right, just that it’s already happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

Exactly what do you think should be done?

DP. Maybe just try to think a little harder about a response other than "you first" and stock market gains.

+1. It’s incredibly rude and out of touch.

It’s a bumper sticker, not an argument.

So, none of you guys have any idea what should be done but you definitely want someone else to go first. Have I got that right?

DP but masks and social distancing should be in place except for the actual current hot spots. Most people should be working again

DP. The problem is that the response has been all over the place. Some states, like MD where I live, have put forward a reasonable plan. When the criteria are met and I’m asked to go back to work and return the kids to school/daycare, I will go. I accept a certain level of risk- the point of the social distancing measures is largely to slow things down, not bubble wrap everyone until there is a vaccine. I know there is a good chance we will be exposed or get it at some point.

But then you have states like GA with idiot governors flying by the seat of their pants.

Don’t worry, this will be our future soon in MD. Only a matter of time.

It’s already happening, maybe just not that high tech- my brother is a cop in a midsize city and they have been busting “house parties” left and right.

Is anyone actually arrested at these parties? If you really think that the cops have no right to shut down parties, then sue.

Yes. And I didn’t say they have no right, just that it’s already happening.

I'm interested but "anonymous brother of cop in midsize city" isn't exactly a reliable source. Do you have an evidence of this?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
When asked if she would put herself on the casino floor with the workers she’d be endangering, the mayor dodges before saying, “first of all, I have a family.”

She basically demonstrates what I said in the first post of this thread. The loudest voices calling for opening have no intention of putting themselves at risk. They are interested in their stock portfolios and political fortunes, but the health risks are for others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Safe doesn't mean no one gets the virus. Safe means the hospitals are not overrun, that there are enough supplies and capacity to handle the demand, and that there is testing and tracing sufficient to identify and contain where needed.

We have NONE of that right now and the testing piece, which should have been the easiest, is the piece that is the furthest behind.

That is 100% on the Trump Administration.

Yes, the administration gets the blame. But is it factually accurate to say that “the hospitals” are overrun? Some may still be, but others are definitely not. Some hospitals are laying off employees. That’s all part of safe, but I think we have to think a little more broadly. Safe should mean that we have gotten to the point where we can say that there is close to zero chance of anything serious from the virus for most people. Whether that means waiting for a vaccine is to be determined.

A safe & effective coronavirus vaccine will not exist in our lifetimes because:
1.) the virus mutates too fast &
2.) mRNA vaccines are Frankenstein technology that will produce iatrogenic injury.

The junk science that the media is throwing out is giving people false hope. But there won’t be a cure or vaccine that is effective any time soon.

what’s your evidence for 1?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The crazy Mayor of Las Vegas, Carolyn Goodman, offering up the lives of her city's residents for a coronavirus "control group", was the wife of a mafia lawyer whose clients included Meyer Lansky.

The Mob. Just remember. It is always the mob with this bunch. KellyAnne's family. McGahn's family. The Trump family...all mob.

When asked if she would put herself on the casino floor with the workers she’d be endangering, the mayor dodges before saying, “first of all, I have a family.”

She should have just said she wasn't going to roll those dice.