Petition: Later MCPS school start times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no personal stake in this, as my own kids have aged out of k-12 education, but I strongly believe that schools should start later in accordance with extensive and uncontroversial research showing the health benefits. The benefits are indisputable; it's just the costs and logistics that are a problem.

I would also point out that this country's obesity epidemic started in the 1980s, just after many (maybe most) public school districts adopted staggered school schedules to allow a single fleet of buses to provide transportation to elementary, middle (or junior high back then), and high school and as suburban sprawl lead to fewer kids walking or biking to school. In the late 1960s, 50% of children walked to school, and school started after 8 a.m. In 2019, my own kids in a neighboring district to MSPS could not walk to school (high school is eight miles away) and caught the high school bus at 6:35 a.m. to be transported to school by 7:00 am and then wait around outside until school started at 7:25 a.m., so that the buses could start their middle school run. There's no part of that arrangement that serves kids' best interests. It's unhealthy, inefficient, and setting them up to struggle.

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

DP. You CHOOSE to drive yours almost two miles. Since we're speaking of choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no personal stake in this, as my own kids have aged out of k-12 education, but I strongly believe that schools should start later in accordance with extensive and uncontroversial research showing the health benefits. The benefits are indisputable; it's just the costs and logistics that are a problem.

I would also point out that this country's obesity epidemic started in the 1980s, just after many (maybe most) public school districts adopted staggered school schedules to allow a single fleet of buses to provide transportation to elementary, middle (or junior high back then), and high school and as suburban sprawl lead to fewer kids walking or biking to school. In the late 1960s, 50% of children walked to school, and school started after 8 a.m. In 2019, my own kids in a neighboring district to MSPS could not walk to school (high school is eight miles away) and caught the high school bus at 6:35 a.m. to be transported to school by 7:00 am and then wait around outside until school started at 7:25 a.m., so that the buses could start their middle school run. There's no part of that arrangement that serves kids' best interests. It's unhealthy, inefficient, and setting them up to struggle.

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

Go away, troll. Why am I posting? Because I think kids' health is important. You should care too. Also, my kids are athletes and not obese, but that doesn't stop me from advocating for conditions to set as many kids as possible up for academic success and good health. Maybe you should try caring about others and not just your own family's needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no personal stake in this, as my own kids have aged out of k-12 education, but I strongly believe that schools should start later in accordance with extensive and uncontroversial research showing the health benefits. The benefits are indisputable; it's just the costs and logistics that are a problem.

I would also point out that this country's obesity epidemic started in the 1980s, just after many (maybe most) public school districts adopted staggered school schedules to allow a single fleet of buses to provide transportation to elementary, middle (or junior high back then), and high school and as suburban sprawl lead to fewer kids walking or biking to school. In the late 1960s, 50% of children walked to school, and school started after 8 a.m. In 2019, my own kids in a neighboring district to MSPS could not walk to school (high school is eight miles away) and caught the high school bus at 6:35 a.m. to be transported to school by 7:00 am and then wait around outside until school started at 7:25 a.m., so that the buses could start their middle school run. There's no part of that arrangement that serves kids' best interests. It's unhealthy, inefficient, and setting them up to struggle.

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

Here's the deal, the problem is not schools starting early it's teenagers staying up late and not getting enough sleep. Whether the school day starts at 7:15, 9:15 or 11:15, many students are going to stay up late and not get enough sleep. Have your children get to bed, you're the parent. Have them do an activity they are passionate about, manage their time and go to bed. Take away the phone and if they are having trouble getting to sleep, have them read or cut the caffeine. This isn't hard. If that doesn't work for you, home school your kids and your kids can sleep till 2pm then you can teach them.

Go away, troll. Why am I posting? Because I think kids' health is important. You should care too. Also, my kids are athletes and not obese, but that doesn't stop me from advocating for conditions to set as many kids as possible up for academic success and good health. Maybe you should try caring about others and not just your own family's needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

DP. You CHOOSE to drive yours almost two miles. Since we're speaking of choices.

What choice do we have? Two major roads and limited sidewalks. Of course we drive. Why don’t you do your kids can sleep in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no personal stake in this, as my own kids have aged out of k-12 education, but I strongly believe that schools should start later in accordance with extensive and uncontroversial research showing the health benefits. The benefits are indisputable; it's just the costs and logistics that are a problem.

I would also point out that this country's obesity epidemic started in the 1980s, just after many (maybe most) public school districts adopted staggered school schedules to allow a single fleet of buses to provide transportation to elementary, middle (or junior high back then), and high school and as suburban sprawl lead to fewer kids walking or biking to school. In the late 1960s, 50% of children walked to school, and school started after 8 a.m. In 2019, my own kids in a neighboring district to MSPS could not walk to school (high school is eight miles away) and caught the high school bus at 6:35 a.m. to be transported to school by 7:00 am and then wait around outside until school started at 7:25 a.m., so that the buses could start their middle school run. There's no part of that arrangement that serves kids' best interests. It's unhealthy, inefficient, and setting them up to struggle.

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

Go away, troll. Why am I posting? Because I think kids' health is important. You should care too. Also, my kids are athletes and not obese, but that doesn't stop me from advocating for conditions to set as many kids as possible up for academic success and good health. Maybe you should try caring about others and not just your own family's needs.

For academic and personal success, school times are better earlier so kids can do activities and work after school and still fit in homework. If you are worried about obesity sports are important and that means an earlier start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

DP. You CHOOSE to drive yours almost two miles. Since we're speaking of choices.

What choice do we have? Two major roads and limited sidewalks. Of course we drive. Why don’t you do your kids can sleep in?

Your children could walk, use a scooter, ride a bike, and/or take public transportation all or part of the way..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no personal stake in this, as my own kids have aged out of k-12 education, but I strongly believe that schools should start later in accordance with extensive and uncontroversial research showing the health benefits. The benefits are indisputable; it's just the costs and logistics that are a problem.

I would also point out that this country's obesity epidemic started in the 1980s, just after many (maybe most) public school districts adopted staggered school schedules to allow a single fleet of buses to provide transportation to elementary, middle (or junior high back then), and high school and as suburban sprawl lead to fewer kids walking or biking to school. In the late 1960s, 50% of children walked to school, and school started after 8 a.m. In 2019, my own kids in a neighboring district to MSPS could not walk to school (high school is eight miles away) and caught the high school bus at 6:35 a.m. to be transported to school by 7:00 am and then wait around outside until school started at 7:25 a.m., so that the buses could start their middle school run. There's no part of that arrangement that serves kids' best interests. It's unhealthy, inefficient, and setting them up to struggle.

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

Go away, troll. Why am I posting? Because I think kids' health is important. You should care too. Also, my kids are athletes and not obese, but that doesn't stop me from advocating for conditions to set as many kids as possible up for academic success and good health. Maybe you should try caring about others and not just your own family's needs.

Like those parents who can't seem to grasp many HS students provide aftercare for their younger siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no personal stake in this, as my own kids have aged out of k-12 education, but I strongly believe that schools should start later in accordance with extensive and uncontroversial research showing the health benefits. The benefits are indisputable; it's just the costs and logistics that are a problem.

I would also point out that this country's obesity epidemic started in the 1980s, just after many (maybe most) public school districts adopted staggered school schedules to allow a single fleet of buses to provide transportation to elementary, middle (or junior high back then), and high school and as suburban sprawl lead to fewer kids walking or biking to school. In the late 1960s, 50% of children walked to school, and school started after 8 a.m. In 2019, my own kids in a neighboring district to MSPS could not walk to school (high school is eight miles away) and caught the high school bus at 6:35 a.m. to be transported to school by 7:00 am and then wait around outside until school started at 7:25 a.m., so that the buses could start their middle school run. There's no part of that arrangement that serves kids' best interests. It's unhealthy, inefficient, and setting them up to struggle.

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

Go away, troll. Why am I posting? Because I think kids' health is important. You should care too. Also, my kids are athletes and not obese, but that doesn't stop me from advocating for conditions to set as many kids as possible up for academic success and good health. Maybe you should try caring about others and not just your own family's needs.

For academic and personal success, school times are better earlier so kids can do activities and work after school and still fit in homework. If you are worried about obesity sports are important and that means an earlier start.

If school start times were later, the length of the school day and sporting events wouldn’t change. The number of hours in a day wouldn’t change. The only thing that would change is to schedule these things optimally for teens’ circadian rhythms, which would help the majority of students increase their sleep. If you believe parental enforcement of a sleep regimen is so easy, take comfort in the knowledge that you can parent your children through such a scheduling change. Easy peasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no personal stake in this, as my own kids have aged out of k-12 education, but I strongly believe that schools should start later in accordance with extensive and uncontroversial research showing the health benefits. The benefits are indisputable; it's just the costs and logistics that are a problem.

I would also point out that this country's obesity epidemic started in the 1980s, just after many (maybe most) public school districts adopted staggered school schedules to allow a single fleet of buses to provide transportation to elementary, middle (or junior high back then), and high school and as suburban sprawl lead to fewer kids walking or biking to school. In the late 1960s, 50% of children walked to school, and school started after 8 a.m. In 2019, my own kids in a neighboring district to MSPS could not walk to school (high school is eight miles away) and caught the high school bus at 6:35 a.m. to be transported to school by 7:00 am and then wait around outside until school started at 7:25 a.m., so that the buses could start their middle school run. There's no part of that arrangement that serves kids' best interests. It's unhealthy, inefficient, and setting them up to struggle.

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

Go away, troll. Why am I posting? Because I think kids' health is important. You should care too. Also, my kids are athletes and not obese, but that doesn't stop me from advocating for conditions to set as many kids as possible up for academic success and good health. Maybe you should try caring about others and not just your own family's needs.

For academic and personal success, school times are better earlier so kids can do activities and work after school and still fit in homework. If you are worried about obesity sports are important and that means an earlier start.

For academic and personal success, sleep is important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

DP. You CHOOSE to drive yours almost two miles. Since we're speaking of choices.

What choice do we have? Two major roads and limited sidewalks. Of course we drive. Why don’t you do your kids can sleep in?

Your children could walk, use a scooter, ride a bike, and/or take public transportation all or part of the way..

Or a helicopter, horse, skateboard or unicycle. But the vast majority will ride in cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Signed the petition when it came out. Ignore the distracting "parenting" comments. (My 8th grader gets herself up and out on time but it wasn't parenting, she's just like that.) The issue is whether it's OK for her and other teens to be getting up so early. In terms of health and learning. And it isn't! Agitating for this change is appropriate, and good parenting.

Why doesn’t she go to bed earlier if she needs more sleep?

Adolescent circadian rhythms make it difficult. Why doesn't your cat open his own cans of food?

The astrological implications combined with the biorhythmic resonance on their chakras make it real hard to get up in the morning.

There are a lot of NIH Pubmed citations of the adolescent circadian rhythms already posted in this thread. Where are your citations? Or do you like to just make up stuff in a futile attempt to confuse people?

I agree that children of all ages need adequate sleep.

Very true! Younger children naturally wake up earlier than older kids. Parents of teens, or at least those that pay attention, know this regardless of whether they've read any studies.

Or, we simply parent by telling our kids to go to bed and enforcing it.

How old are your kids? Either your kids are young, or your kids are unusually obedient, or your kids are fooling you, or you know there's actually nothing simple about it.

DP.
I have a middle schooler and a senior. Both get 8+ hours of sleep. (It helps that phones stayed in my room for the first couple years for each, building the habit of not texting at midnight or 2am.)

If school is later, then my high schooler will be doing her sport and clubs later into the evening. That will push her homework and bedtime back and she’ll end up getting less sleep than she does now.

It just seems… easier to enforce bedtimes than forcing an entire district to change so students can stay up later.

If the start time was later, your dd would be able to sleep in later, so there’s no reason why she’d get less sleep. Just be a parent and enforce whatever sleep schedule she needs to be on.

Why should kids who aren’t in sports (the majority of students) operate on a schedule that suits your dd?

They would go to bed later as everything would get pushed back later. Maybe you should put up your kids in activities. It’s not just sports that kids ate out late for.

Yes, the schedule would be more in line with the majority of students’ needs if they could sleep during the hours most conducive to their health. Parenting can solve this conundrum for you. You can just force your kids to adjust to a new sleep schedule. It’s called parenting. Just reprogram your kids.

So let me get this straight.
I’m supposed to improve my parenting by putting my children on a later sleep schedule in order to accommodate a later start time?

Why don’t you simply put your kids on an earlier schedule in order to accommodate an earlier start time?

My children handle the current schedule just fine because I DO parent. I don’t need an entire school system to change so I can avoid putting my children in bed earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Signed the petition when it came out. Ignore the distracting "parenting" comments. (My 8th grader gets herself up and out on time but it wasn't parenting, she's just like that.) The issue is whether it's OK for her and other teens to be getting up so early. In terms of health and learning. And it isn't! Agitating for this change is appropriate, and good parenting.

Why doesn’t she go to bed earlier if she needs more sleep?

Adolescent circadian rhythms make it difficult. Why doesn't your cat open his own cans of food?

The astrological implications combined with the biorhythmic resonance on their chakras make it real hard to get up in the morning.

There are a lot of NIH Pubmed citations of the adolescent circadian rhythms already posted in this thread. Where are your citations? Or do you like to just make up stuff in a futile attempt to confuse people?

I agree that children of all ages need adequate sleep.

Very true! Younger children naturally wake up earlier than older kids. Parents of teens, or at least those that pay attention, know this regardless of whether they've read any studies.

Or, we simply parent by telling our kids to go to bed and enforcing it.

How old are your kids? Either your kids are young, or your kids are unusually obedient, or your kids are fooling you, or you know there's actually nothing simple about it.

DP.
I have a middle schooler and a senior. Both get 8+ hours of sleep. (It helps that phones stayed in my room for the first couple years for each, building the habit of not texting at midnight or 2am.)

If school is later, then my high schooler will be doing her sport and clubs later into the evening. That will push her homework and bedtime back and she’ll end up getting less sleep than she does now.

It just seems… easier to enforce bedtimes than forcing an entire district to change so students can stay up later.

If the start time was later, your dd would be able to sleep in later, so there’s no reason why she’d get less sleep. Just be a parent and enforce whatever sleep schedule she needs to be on.

Why should kids who aren’t in sports (the majority of students) operate on a schedule that suits your dd?

They would go to bed later as everything would get pushed back later. Maybe you should put up your kids in activities. It’s not just sports that kids ate out late for.

Yes, the schedule would be more in line with the majority of students’ needs if they could sleep during the hours most conducive to their health. Parenting can solve this conundrum for you. You can just force your kids to adjust to a new sleep schedule. It’s called parenting. Just reprogram your kids.

So let me get this straight.
I’m supposed to improve my parenting by putting my children on a later sleep schedule in order to accommodate a later start time?

Why don’t you simply put your kids on an earlier schedule in order to accommodate an earlier start time?

My children handle the current schedule just fine because I DO parent. I don’t need an entire school system to change so I can avoid putting my children in bed earlier.

Why couldn't your kids just do something in the morning if they like getting up early? Also, you've already told us that you have a horrific TWO MILE commute to take them to high school. Do you realize that 1) not everyone can drive their kids to school; and 2) many kids live a long distance from their schools. What time do your kids get up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

DP. You CHOOSE to drive yours almost two miles. Since we're speaking of choices.

What choice do we have? Two major roads and limited sidewalks. Of course we drive. Why don’t you do your kids can sleep in?

Your children could walk, use a scooter, ride a bike, and/or take public transportation all or part of the way..

The walk s not safe and multiple kids have been hit by cars since they have to walk in the street. And, there is no public transportation.

Why can’t you stop being lazy and drive your kids?

And sometimes they don’t get home till very late. I should have them walk home at 10pm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are lucky you got buses. We have to drive ours almost two miles. The obesity is a combination of genetics, lack of sports and exercise and eating habits. Later start time cannot fix that. If kids are not in sports parents can take kids before or after school you a walk or bike ride or work out.

You clearly did not have kids in mcps if you think a single fleet of buses would work and since you said your kids were never in mcps why are you posting here?

If you did not like your kids getting to school that early you could have driven them like we do. Why were you too lazy to walk with them or drive them?

DP. You CHOOSE to drive yours almost two miles. Since we're speaking of choices.

What choice do we have? Two major roads and limited sidewalks. Of course we drive. Why don’t you do your kids can sleep in?

Your children could walk, use a scooter, ride a bike, and/or take public transportation all or part of the way..

Or a helicopter, horse, skateboard or unicycle. But the vast majority will ride in cars.

Yes, skateboard, you're right. Your children could walk, use a scooter or skateboard, ride a bike, and/or take public transportation all or part of the way. Lots of kids do this.

But yes, there are also parents who choose to drive their kids.