Hoping these kids are OK

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Society really needs to push the message that there is hope and a future for all teens, and that taking dangerous risks and just "living as if I could die tomorrow" isn't worth it. While I know that in general all teens are more likely to be risk takers, not have fully developed brains, not enough critical thinking skills to assess whether they should take a risk, there are definitely some cultures in which it considered cool or normal to live like you got nothing to lose.

Some demographics (lower SES, being from an immigrant family, ESL, etc) may make a child much more likely to be unsupervised, unsupported, to think it doesn't matter if they get arrested because they're not going to college (no one they know has gone to college and their parents don't know anything re the college system), and some cultures don't seem too worried about not wearing seatbelts.

I immediately thought when I heard that 6 of those kids weren't wearing seat belts that they were hispanic, based on my interactions with some kids I used to drive for years on one of my kid's soccer team. These were really nice kids, but their parents never drove them, either because they were working or they just didn't think it was necessary for parents to come to games. They lived in Section 8 so I knew at least there was an income barrier. They all had multiple older siblings, one had an 8th grade brother who had dropped out of school, another who had been threatened by a Peruvian gang at a soccer game and beaten up so bad that his jaw was wired shut, another who knew all about the different gangs in school, etc. But what they all had in common was that they never wanted to wear seatbelts. Every single damn time they got in my car, individually or as a group, I would have to remind them and often I caught them taking them off and had to insist they put them back on. It was so strange. They told me their parents didn't make them.

I don't know if this is a cultural thing or SES thing or what.

I think it’s a cultural and SES thing among certain groups. I teach ESOL in FCPS and have heard similar comments from my high school students. I also know many of them drive without licenses because in their countries it doesn’t matter. And yes, they are often out late and unsupervised because either they are working or their parents are working. I don’t want to generalize, but after 23 years of teacher, I’ve certainly seen patterns among different groups of students. That said, I think among more rural areas of the U.S., the same would be true with regard to not using seatbelts or driving without a license.

I really hope this teacher’s account isn’t accurate. I’m the child of immigrants and was taught to respect America’s laws. Reckless behavior endangers others, not just the reckless ones. It’s not okay to teach your kids to disregard our laws.

Well, I’m the teacher and I’m not lying. Of course there are exceptions to every rule and not every immigrant is driving without a license, but it’s something I’ve heard from several of my students. I’m also not sure how old you are, but immigration has changed over time and different groups are coming for different reasons. Many people who immigrate today don’t feel that connected to America in the first place and many of my students and their families are coming out of necessity, not because they really want to live in America.

DP.

I work with this population also (though not as a teacher).

The teacher is correct.

Also, many of you are likely unaware public school in Central America ends at 6th grade.

Google it. Unless you have the money to pay for 7th, 8th, high school, your education ends at 6th grade.

Stop assuming everyone around the world has your same privileged American childhood experience.

Um in a first world country like the US it's not a privilege it's the standard get over yourself

These kids go to Marshall and McLean high. The boy who died went to Longfellow Middle School in McLean. These are some of the best school districts in NOVA. I’m not sure it is relevant that in some Central American countries, education ends in sixth grade.

Someone mentioned that the kids were from El Salvador and have only been in the US for 2 years. If they grew up here maybe they would have been more well versed in the laws of driving , drinking and stealing cars?

There is no indication the car was stolen. The owner of the car was a passenger, who presumably was not be held against her will.

So the parent gave permission to take their car out at 5am and driven by an 14 year old?

I would think the girl took the car out or let the unlicensed boy drive since she was a passenger. I would not consider the car stolen.

I can’t believe none of these kids had their seatbelt on.

Is this really cultural???!

That's what people are claiming.
Maybe maintaining your "home culture" needs to stop when you immigrate to another country.

I don’t think you need to give up your home culture, but assimilation to the new culture needs to happen as well which doesn’t as much anymore. If you’re a Spanish speaker, you can get by pretty easily in America these days.

PP you quoted
PP are saying these illegal things they were doing were "cultural." I am saying that when you move, even if things are legal in your former country, you need to follow the law in your new one. It doesn't matter if that's your culture-if it's illegal where you live now, you need to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Society really needs to push the message that there is hope and a future for all teens, and that taking dangerous risks and just "living as if I could die tomorrow" isn't worth it. While I know that in general all teens are more likely to be risk takers, not have fully developed brains, not enough critical thinking skills to assess whether they should take a risk, there are definitely some cultures in which it considered cool or normal to live like you got nothing to lose.

Some demographics (lower SES, being from an immigrant family, ESL, etc) may make a child much more likely to be unsupervised, unsupported, to think it doesn't matter if they get arrested because they're not going to college (no one they know has gone to college and their parents don't know anything re the college system), and some cultures don't seem too worried about not wearing seatbelts.

I immediately thought when I heard that 6 of those kids weren't wearing seat belts that they were hispanic, based on my interactions with some kids I used to drive for years on one of my kid's soccer team. These were really nice kids, but their parents never drove them, either because they were working or they just didn't think it was necessary for parents to come to games. They lived in Section 8 so I knew at least there was an income barrier. They all had multiple older siblings, one had an 8th grade brother who had dropped out of school, another who had been threatened by a Peruvian gang at a soccer game and beaten up so bad that his jaw was wired shut, another who knew all about the different gangs in school, etc. But what they all had in common was that they never wanted to wear seatbelts. Every single damn time they got in my car, individually or as a group, I would have to remind them and often I caught them taking them off and had to insist they put them back on. It was so strange. They told me their parents didn't make them.

I don't know if this is a cultural thing or SES thing or what.

I think it’s a cultural and SES thing among certain groups. I teach ESOL in FCPS and have heard similar comments from my high school students. I also know many of them drive without licenses because in their countries it doesn’t matter. And yes, they are often out late and unsupervised because either they are working or their parents are working. I don’t want to generalize, but after 23 years of teacher, I’ve certainly seen patterns among different groups of students. That said, I think among more rural areas of the U.S., the same would be true with regard to not using seatbelts or driving without a license.

I really hope this teacher’s account isn’t accurate. I’m the child of immigrants and was taught to respect America’s laws. Reckless behavior endangers others, not just the reckless ones. It’s not okay to teach your kids to disregard our laws.

Well, I’m the teacher and I’m not lying. Of course there are exceptions to every rule and not every immigrant is driving without a license, but it’s something I’ve heard from several of my students. I’m also not sure how old you are, but immigration has changed over time and different groups are coming for different reasons. Many people who immigrate today don’t feel that connected to America in the first place and many of my students and their families are coming out of necessity, not because they really want to live in America.

DP.

I work with this population also (though not as a teacher).

The teacher is correct.

Also, many of you are likely unaware public school in Central America ends at 6th grade.

Google it. Unless you have the money to pay for 7th, 8th, high school, your education ends at 6th grade.

Stop assuming everyone around the world has your same privileged American childhood experience.

Um in a first world country like the US it's not a privilege it's the standard get over yourself

These kids go to Marshall and McLean high. The boy who died went to Longfellow Middle School in McLean. These are some of the best school districts in NOVA. I’m not sure it is relevant that in some Central American countries, education ends in sixth grade.

Someone mentioned that the kids were from El Salvador and have only been in the US for 2 years. If they grew up here maybe they would have been more well versed in the laws of driving , drinking and stealing cars?

There is no indication the car was stolen. The owner of the car was a passenger, who presumably was not be held against her will.

So the parent gave permission to take their car out at 5am and driven by an 14 year old?

I would think the girl took the car out or let the unlicensed boy drive since she was a passenger. I would not consider the car stolen.

I can’t believe none of these kids had their seatbelt on.

Is this really cultural???!

That's what people are claiming.
Maybe maintaining your "home culture" needs to stop when you immigrate to another country.

I don’t think you need to give up your home culture, but assimilation to the new culture needs to happen as well which doesn’t as much anymore. If you’re a Spanish speaker, you can get by pretty easily in America these days.

PP you quoted
PP are saying these illegal things they were doing were "cultural." I am saying that when you move, even if things are legal in your former country, you need to follow the law in your new one. It doesn't matter if that's your culture-if it's illegal where you live now, you need to stop.

Not disagreeing with you. But for whatever reason it’s not happening as much as it did before. At the risk of sounding like an old fogey, I think in general a lot of younger kids don’t feel like they need to follow the rules as much as we were taught to do. America has changed - some for the good, some not for the good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

It will eventually trickle out - it’s a small world. But for now you’ll have to manage parenting your kids without inflicting additional pain on other parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

It will eventually trickle out - it’s a small world. But for now you’ll have to manage parenting your kids without inflicting additional pain on other parents.

How does it "inflict pain" on another parent for my kid to know their kid's name?

[Anonymous]

You don’t have to contribute and you don’t have a right to personal information about a child.

After all these pages of posts attacking children and their parents, you wonder why they want to preserve their privacy as long as they can?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

It will eventually trickle out - it’s a small world. But for now you’ll have to manage parenting your kids without inflicting additional pain on other parents.

How does it "inflict pain" on another parent for my kid to know their kid's name?

Respect my privacy…but please contribute to my GoFundMe.

I think the kid’s gofundme was fake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

The privacy rights of minors trump your desire to use them as pawns to teach other kids a lesson. That shouldn’t really need to be explained, but here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These kids lived in apartments, not McManisons, how did all of these families fail to realize that their teenagers were out at 5:00 am on a school night? Obviously no one deserves tragedy, not the kids or their parents, but this was clearly attributable to a lack of parenting.

Why do people continue to trash these kids and their families? It’s disgusting.

Because they committed crimes that could have killed innocent people. Their actions didn't just affect them. Think of the poor man who found the bodies. Do you think he just went back inside and went on with his day as normal?

+10000

Yep. It was shear luck they didn’t kill someone else. It was entirely avoidable and preventable and what’s “disgusting” (to quote pp) is to act like this is a normal and understandable teenage transgression, it’s not. Sneaking your friend’s dad’s beer in the basement and then sleeping it off is normal. Getting into a car knowingly impaired is attempted murder.

It’s disgusting to trash the families based on speculation. Stop being so judgmental FFS.

Nothing I stated is speculation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

The privacy rights of minors trump your desire to use them as pawns to teach other kids a lesson. That shouldn’t really need to be explained, but here we are.

Yes, and as usual the "rights" of criminals trump the rights of everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

The privacy rights of minors trump your desire to use them as pawns to teach other kids a lesson. That shouldn’t really need to be explained, but here we are.

Yes, and as usual the "rights" of criminals trump the rights of everyone else.

+1

[Anonymous]

When you are in another country, you are subject to the laws of that country. It does not matter if “culturally” it’s not a law in your home country. Do you all even hear yourselves? You can’t drive without a license here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

The privacy rights of minors trump your desire to use them as pawns to teach other kids a lesson. That shouldn’t really need to be explained, but here we are.

Yes, and as usual the "rights" of criminals trump the rights of everyone else.

What rights of yours are being trampled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am unsure what the “bad kids/bad parents!” posters want. A child is dead. Surely there aren’t any higher consequences than that? The kids who are still alive will all have lives that are seriously impacted. What more exactly do you want?

Some of us can know the kids were being reckless and still be heartbroken that they are paying such a high price. Some of us can think the parents perhaps were not as in control of their kids as they should have been but still feel huge empathy for a parent who is burying their 14 year old. Some of us can acknowledge that there is no excuse for driving drunk and not wearing seatbelts and still appreciate that there are still communities that these common sense messages have not penetrated as deeply as they should.

It is also possible to remind parents that the nature of the kid matters. That even in a household with unlimited resources and parental involvement, some percentage of kids are going to be risk takers.

Why do the kids names all need to be kept secret and confidential? Yes, I know they are minors. But if we want this to hit home and become "real" for our kids, they need to know these were real people.
Just saying "some kids" won't have as big an impact as "His name was XX. This is his social medial account. You can see how he went to basketball games with his friends and homecoming with his girlfriend. And now he is paralyzed for the rest of his life."

Because it’s the law in our country that we offer this privacy to minors. Your wanting to make it a teaching moment for your kids does not trump that right.