above average kids but not "advanced"

[Anonymous]

I'm really struggling this year with our FCPS ES. My DC tested very, very well in SOLs last year and gets across the board 4's (for what that is all worth). DC is a solid student. DC made "the pool" for AAP but we didn't pursue it for reasons having nothing to do with academics, but does get pulled out for level three (which is ok but they don't do much in math).

DC is not in advanced math but is definitely above grade level (the advanced class is limited to one class based on last year's SOL scores and other metrics). We are a month in and still doing very easy review (think rounding up decimals). The advanced class is doing integers. I'm highly annoyed. Since DC didn't make the metric for the limited advanced spots, DC is stuck with this review process while the other kids are moving on to more challenging subjects. In short, I kind of feel like DC's falling in the cracks of advanced but not advanced enough and so not getting the challenges DC needs. So what do I do? I'm usually very deferential to the teacher and am wary of bringing it up in our conference (esp. in our school which has a very high concentration of helicopter parents and pushy parents who request teachers, make all sorts of demands . . . things I've never done.) But, I also feel DC is being done a disservice here. I'm fundamentally struggling with the one-size approach for all "non-advanced" students when DC needs something above grade level but not "advanced." If we're not going to make more individual curriculum then they need to open up those advanced classes more, imo, to give other kids the chance (not something I'd raised but that's my personal view).

Has anyone else faced this? What do I do?

[Anonymous]

Do you have the time/money for tutoring? Tutoring might push him far enough ahead to be "advanced."

we had a similar problem last year - my daughter started the year way ahead of grade level (and gifted) and it ended up being sort of a catch-up year for a lot of kids. She learned almost nothing and was bored and a bit frustrated. This year she got a very demanding teacher so I'm hoping she'll be back on track.

[Anonymous]

Agree to get a tutor.

[Anonymous]

OP,

Here is a FWIW. What is your goal? Some college professors are saying that the kids who are rushing through these math classes are missing out. There was an article in WAPO last week (it may have been a letter to the editor) about this. The professor said that basic math skills are being ignored in the schools in favor of pushing kids toward calculus early. He said basic skills are not coming to school with some of these kids.

I cannot speak to this issue, but it makes sense to me. I was a teacher and always felt that foundations were extremely important. These days education seems like a race--I prefer to think of it as a building. You need a good base. With the race, some kids don't make it to the end--they peter out early. Others may finish and collapse at the finish line. Some just give up. A building requires a good strong base--if you don't have that, the building may topple over. However, you can have good low lying buildings and good high rises if they are built properly.

Pushing ahead is not always a good thing--even for "advanced" kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm really struggling this year with our FCPS ES. My DC tested very, very well in SOLs last year and gets across the board 4's (for what that is all worth). DC is a solid student. DC made "the pool" for AAP but we didn't pursue it for reasons having nothing to do with academics, but does get pulled out for level three (which is ok but they don't do much in math).

DC is not in advanced math but is definitely above grade level (the advanced class is limited to one class based on last year's SOL scores and other metrics). We are a month in and still doing very easy review (think rounding up decimals). The advanced class is doing integers. I'm highly annoyed. Since DC didn't make the metric for the limited advanced spots, DC is stuck with this review process while the other kids are moving on to more challenging subjects. In short, I kind of feel like DC's falling in the cracks of advanced but not advanced enough and so not getting the challenges DC needs. So what do I do? I'm usually very deferential to the teacher and am wary of bringing it up in our conference (esp. in our school which has a very high concentration of helicopter parents and pushy parents who request teachers, make all sorts of demands . . . things I've never done.) But, I also feel DC is being done a disservice here. I'm fundamentally struggling with the one-size approach for all "non-advanced" students when DC needs something above grade level but not "advanced." If we're not going to make more individual curriculum then they need to open up those advanced classes more, imo, to give other kids the chance (not something I'd raised but that's my personal view).

Has anyone else faced this? What do I do?

If you push, you will come across like "that" parent. Your child was in the pool and you decide not to submit a packet. If he was in the pool, he was autayicau screened but since you didn't explicitly state he was offered admission, I'm guessing he wasn't actually admitted. (Had he had two high test scores or one high test score and a high gbrs, he would have been). There is probably 25% of the kids where he is who aren't even getting level 3 services. They won't be stellar however. The only other thing you could push for is IF you are at a local level if school, to see if he could get placed in at least math in an aap classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Here is a FWIW. What is your goal? Some college professors are saying that the kids who are rushing through these math classes are missing out. There was an article in WAPO last week (it may have been a letter to the editor) about this. The professor said that basic math skills are being ignored in the schools in favor of pushing kids toward calculus early. He said basic skills are not coming to school with some of these kids.

I cannot speak to this issue, but it makes sense to me. I was a teacher and always felt that foundations were extremely important. These days education seems like a race--I prefer to think of it as a building. You need a good base. With the race, some kids don't make it to the end--they peter out early. Others may finish and collapse at the finish line. Some just give up. A building requires a good strong base--if you don't have that, the building may topple over. However, you can have good low lying buildings and good high rises if they are built properly.

Pushing ahead is not always a good thing--even for "advanced" kids.

+100

My 6th grader is in 7th grade math for 6th graders and is incredibly bored, says it is way too easy. A few of his friends ha e moved into Algebra 1 I. 6th grade for this reason.

I am not sure that's what I want him to do because I truly don't see what the incredible rush is to push ahead. Fwiw, I have an advanced STEM degree. I know concepts build and I'd rather have a very strong foundation and an easier go at things than a tutor and struggling to keep up in courses 2 years past the usual time taken.

[Anonymous]

FCPS is good for kids in AAP and kids with severe special needs.

The kids in the middle- average to above average- are just pushed along.

Get your kid into the AAP program or get them to a private school. We opted for the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really struggling this year with our FCPS ES. My DC tested very, very well in SOLs last year and gets across the board 4's (for what that is all worth). DC is a solid student. DC made "the pool" for AAP but we didn't pursue it for reasons having nothing to do with academics, but does get pulled out for level three (which is ok but they don't do much in math).

DC is not in advanced math but is definitely above grade level (the advanced class is limited to one class based on last year's SOL scores and other metrics). We are a month in and still doing very easy review (think rounding up decimals). The advanced class is doing integers. I'm highly annoyed. Since DC didn't make the metric for the limited advanced spots, DC is stuck with this review process while the other kids are moving on to more challenging subjects. In short, I kind of feel like DC's falling in the cracks of advanced but not advanced enough and so not getting the challenges DC needs. So what do I do? I'm usually very deferential to the teacher and am wary of bringing it up in our conference (esp. in our school which has a very high concentration of helicopter parents and pushy parents who request teachers, make all sorts of demands . . . things I've never done.) But, I also feel DC is being done a disservice here. I'm fundamentally struggling with the one-size approach for all "non-advanced" students when DC needs something above grade level but not "advanced." If we're not going to make more individual curriculum then they need to open up those advanced classes more, imo, to give other kids the chance (not something I'd raised but that's my personal view).

Has anyone else faced this? What do I do?

If you push, you will come across like "that" parent. Your child was in the pool and you decide not to submit a packet. If he was in the pool, he was autayicau screened but since you didn't explicitly state he was offered admission, I'm guessing he wasn't actually admitted. (Had he had two high test scores or one high test score and a high gbrs, he would have been). There is probably 25% of the kids where he is who aren't even getting level 3 services. They won't be stellar however. The only other thing you could push for is IF you are at a local level if school, to see if he could get placed in at least math in an aap classroom.

Since I said that I'm not going to push, your post is a non-issue. We opted out of AAP and did not apply. I think it's too late to make the switch now as the kids who have been in it since 3d are a full year ahead in math. That doesn't seem productive. I may have made a different decision had I known that DC's individual needs -which, again, are not "advanced" but definitely well above grade level- would not be met. All I want is that to be the case, that is, DC is sufficiently challenged and not lagging behind due to some arbitrary cut off for who is deemed "advanced" or not. DC was advanced SOL and all 4's last year (and so far this year).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is good for kids in AAP and kids with severe special needs.

The kids in the middle- average to above average- are just pushed along.

Get your kid into the AAP program or get them to a private school. We opted for the latter.

Not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Here is a FWIW. What is your goal? Some college professors are saying that the kids who are rushing through these math classes are missing out. There was an article in WAPO last week (it may have been a letter to the editor) about this. The professor said that basic math skills are being ignored in the schools in favor of pushing kids toward calculus early. He said basic skills are not coming to school with some of these kids.

I cannot speak to this issue, but it makes sense to me. I was a teacher and always felt that foundations were extremely important. These days education seems like a race--I prefer to think of it as a building. You need a good base. With the race, some kids don't make it to the end--they peter out early. Others may finish and collapse at the finish line. Some just give up. A building requires a good strong base--if you don't have that, the building may topple over. However, you can have good low lying buildings and good high rises if they are built properly.

Pushing ahead is not always a good thing--even for "advanced" kids.

Thank you. Honestly, this is one reason we didn't push for AAP. I wanted to make sure DC wasn't rushed and got a solid basic foundation. I think DC is getting that but is, frankly, bored. I just want to make sure DC is challenged. And not see these other kids get opportunities to be challenged at a slightly higher level (this is not AAP but a single "advanced" class in our grade) but DC is not. I would not push to have DC in the class but they made the decision based on their metrics. But, I do feel like DC's individual needs are being overlooked.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, it's a zero sum game in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS is good for kids in AAP and kids with severe special needs.

The kids in the middle- average to above average- are just pushed along.

Get your kid into the AAP program or get them to a private school. We opted for the latter.

Not necessarily. I teach in an elementary school and we try to challenge all students within the gen ed classroom. I know the OP mentioned math. OP, do you know if your child's classroom is doing any amount of what would be considered a math workshop model?

[Anonymous]

Have you asked the school how they determine who is in the advanced math group. At our school with a local level IV, the advanced math class is not solely limited to AAP kids. An assessment test is given to all GE kids in the beginning of the year and if they score a certain score on the test they are elegibile to take advanced math. So our school has AAP and and advanced GE kids in the advanced math class. What are these other metrics your school uses? Is it possible that your D.C. was given an assessment and for whatever reason did not do well on it. If you don't want to come across as the pushy parent you could just ask how your school determines eligibility for advanced math. Using an assessment test seemed like a fair way to determine eligibility for advanced math at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really struggling this year with our FCPS ES. My DC tested very, very well in SOLs last year and gets across the board 4's (for what that is all worth). DC is a solid student. DC made "the pool" for AAP but we didn't pursue it for reasons having nothing to do with academics, but does get pulled out for level three (which is ok but they don't do much in math).

DC is not in advanced math but is definitely above grade level (the advanced class is limited to one class based on last year's SOL scores and other metrics). We are a month in and still doing very easy review (think rounding up decimals). The advanced class is doing integers. I'm highly annoyed. Since DC didn't make the metric for the limited advanced spots, DC is stuck with this review process while the other kids are moving on to more challenging subjects. In short, I kind of feel like DC's falling in the cracks of advanced but not advanced enough and so not getting the challenges DC needs. So what do I do? I'm usually very deferential to the teacher and am wary of bringing it up in our conference (esp. in our school which has a very high concentration of helicopter parents and pushy parents who request teachers, make all sorts of demands . . . things I've never done.) But, I also feel DC is being done a disservice here. I'm fundamentally struggling with the one-size approach for all "non-advanced" students when DC needs something above grade level but not "advanced." If we're not going to make more individual curriculum then they need to open up those advanced classes more, imo, to give other kids the chance (not something I'd raised but that's my personal view).

Has anyone else faced this? What do I do?

If you push, you will come across like "that" parent. Your child was in the pool and you decide not to submit a packet. If he was in the pool, he was autayicau screened but since you didn't explicitly state he was offered admission, I'm guessing he wasn't actually admitted. (Had he had two high test scores or one high test score and a high gbrs, he would have been). There is probably 25% of the kids where he is who aren't even getting level 3 services. They won't be stellar however. The only other thing you could push for is IF you are at a local level if school, to see if he could get placed in at least math in an aap classroom.

Since I said that I'm not going to push, your post is a non-issue. We opted out of AAP and did not apply. I think it's too late to make the switch now as the kids who have been in it since 3d are a full year ahead in math. That doesn't seem productive. I may have made a different decision had I known that DC's individual needs -which, again, are not "advanced" but definitely well above grade level- would not be met. All I want is that to be the case, that is, DC is sufficiently challenged and not lagging behind due to some arbitrary cut off for who is deemed "advanced" or not. DC was advanced SOL and all 4's last year (and so far this year).

His grades last year and his sol score means little with regard to his current needs. All those numbers mean is that he understands what was previously taught to him. There will always be some review in math and then some new material taught. There will also be the iready assessment this year and, as someone else said, there was likely some preassessment done. The point is that:

- prior grades and sol score aren't indicative of his need for more advanced math
- plenty of kids join aap after third grade and do ok with the jump in math, even if they didnt attend aap starting in third
- you child didnt qualify for aap admission but was merely in the pool. That means he has a test that shows he may have some innate ability but he is also with 1/3 of the kids who were in the pool and not admitted. Meaning, 1/3 of those kids are with him.
-he likely took and did not do a great job during a preassessment
- LOTS of kids are above grade level in fcps, both in and out of aap...that is not the basis for admission

[Anonymous]

I think you should speak with someone at your school about the specifics. None of us know exactly how it works at your school.

You seem to be a little confused about how some things work re: AAP (and possibly the advanced math). For example, if your kid was "in pool" you wouldn't have had to "apply." He would have automatically been screened.