Prep/Gonzaga/St John's vs. public schools

[Anonymous]

Would a student/athlete place better for college coming from one of these schools because their counseling offices have close ties to recruitment coordinators and their college counseling offices are well versed in guiding students through the Academic Index?

[Anonymous]

It depends. What sport? Lacrosse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends. What sport? Lacrosse?

Let's just say a non-lacrosse sport (I know their lacrosse program is incredible and nationally ranked)

[Anonymous]

Depends on what kid of school you want to go to. Also remember you will spend at least $100k on high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would a student/athlete place better for college coming from one of these schools because their counseling offices have close ties to recruitment coordinators and their college counseling offices are well versed in guiding students through the Academic Index?

In our experience:

1. If you are looking for help from any Admissions Counselor of Athletic Director or coach to guide you through the Academic Index and improve your son's chances, you are flat out of luck. College Counseling offices stay far away from the athletic recruiting process and the Academic Index. They know little about the Academic Index other than it exists.

Because they don't understand it, College counselors don't know quite what to do about it. And, we got the sense the Counseling staff felt that the whole thing was unfair as they saw less well-academically qualified athletes leapfrog over better students for admission to top schools. (They then had to explain to the parents of the better student why their son didn't get into Colle X, while a less well-qualified student did because of the athletic "hook".

2. The Academic Index score "Tiers" vary by college. Only the college Athletic staff and their Admissions people understand it and know where individual athletic recruits fall on it. A college is allowed only so-many athletic recruits in each of the Academic Index tiers. The College Athletic department has to decide where to spend their "chits".

3. What school's like Gonzaga, Prep and SJC have as an advantage over the publics is that they generally play in tougher conferences, have better coaching and the Admissions staff may have more confidence in students from these schools. The college athletic staff knows better from experience what they are actually getting in an athlete from one of these schools. From their perspective, it's less of a gamble.

There's also the better exposure these athletes get. In our experience at one of these schools you listed we found that the contacts with the Ivies were based on Ivy alumni watching these games and contacting the coaching staffs at their alma maters. College coaches don't always have confidence in what high school coaches tell them.

There are, however, exceptions to that where colleges have excellent relationships with some high school coaches based on friendships and long experience. This is an individual sport phenomenon. You can see it happen year after year in some sports, so it's obvious what is going on.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would a student/athlete place better for college coming from one of these schools because their counseling offices have close ties to recruitment coordinators and their college counseling offices are well versed in guiding students through the Academic Index?

In our experience:

1. If you are looking for help from any Admissions Counselor of Athletic Director or coach to guide you through the Academic Index and improve your son's chances, you are flat out of luck. College Counseling offices stay far away from the athletic recruiting process and the Academic Index. They know little about the Academic Index other than it exists.

Because they don't understand it, College counselors don't know quite what to do about it. And, we got the sense the Counseling staff felt that the whole thing was unfair as they saw less well-academically qualified athletes leapfrog over better students for admission to top schools. (They then had to explain to the parents of the better student why their son didn't get into Colle X, while a less well-qualified student did because of the athletic "hook".

2. The Academic Index score "Tiers" vary by college. Only the college Athletic staff and their Admissions people understand it and know where individual athletic recruits fall on it. A college is allowed only so-many athletic recruits in each of the Academic Index tiers. The College Athletic department has to decide where to spend their "chits".

3. What school's like Gonzaga, Prep and SJC have as an advantage over the publics is that they generally play in tougher conferences, have better coaching and the Admissions staff may have more confidence in students from these schools. The college athletic staff knows better from experience what they are actually getting in an athlete from one of these schools. From their perspective, it's less of a gamble.

There's also the better exposure these athletes get. In our experience at one of these schools you listed we found that the contacts with the Ivies were based on Ivy alumni watching these games and contacting the coaching staffs at their alma maters. College coaches don't always have confidence in what high school coaches tell them.

There are, however, exceptions to that where colleges have excellent relationships with some high school coaches based on friendships and long experience. This is an individual sport phenomenon. You can see it happen year after year in some sports, so it's obvious what is going on.

very good post - nice to see someone try to be positive and helpful for a change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for this.

No problem. We lived this experience with two boys at one of these schools you mentioned, who were both recruited hard by Ivies and by other schools that use a version of it (Williams and Amherst)

The Academic Index looks at two numbers; SAT scores and Class Rank.

So there's not much maneuvering you can do on it. You either have the scores and rank or you don't. (One might think that it would be easier to have a higher class rank at St John's than at Prep or Gonzaga.)

The Academic Index scores required by the Ivies vary by Ivy League School. The requirements are higher at Harvard, Yale and Princeton than they are at Penn. That's because, on average, the SAT scores at H-Y-P are higher than at Penn.

When all the Athletic Recruits are counted the distribution of AI scores for Athletes has to mirror the Academic Index scores for all the freshman class that is admitted.

The Academic Index is broken down into bands or tiers. I think there are five of them. The schools normally only get to admit so many in the lower tiers and these are almost always football and basketball players.

They offset this by getting in tennis players, and volleyballers and swimmers, etc with above average Academic Index scores. All the athletes have to average out to he same Academic Index scores of the entire class.

You can get a copy of the Academic Index on the Ivy League web site.

Both our boys chose not to go to Ivy League schools. They attended very-highly regarded Catholic universities instead.

One other point. I wouldn't call college recruiting "dirty". but there's a fair amount of mis-representation that goes on and amazingly especially by the Ivy League schools.

With schools that offer scholarships, there is no doubt about a school's real interest. But, with the Ivies and some others there's no way to really understand just how badly they want your son and whether they might be willing to use one of the valuable slots they have on the lower tiers of the Academic Index.

If you are in the upper tiers of the AI, relax. They are going to want you badly so they can offset the kids they want in the lower tiers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for this.

No problem. We lived this experience with two boys at one of these schools you mentioned, who were both recruited hard by Ivies and by other schools that use a version of it (Williams and Amherst)

The Academic Index looks at two numbers; SAT scores and Class Rank.

So there's not much maneuvering you can do on it. You either have the scores and rank or you don't. (One might think that it would be easier to have a higher class rank at St John's than at Prep or Gonzaga.)

The Academic Index scores required by the Ivies vary by Ivy League School. The requirements are higher at Harvard, Yale and Princeton than they are at Penn. That's because, on average, the SAT scores at H-Y-P are higher than at Penn.

When all the Athletic Recruits are counted the distribution of AI scores for Athletes has to mirror the Academic Index scores for all the freshman class that is admitted.

The Academic Index is broken down into bands or tiers. I think there are five of them. The schools normally only get to admit so many in the lower tiers and these are almost always football and basketball players.

They offset this by getting in tennis players, and volleyballers and swimmers, etc with above average Academic Index scores. All the athletes have to average out to he same Academic Index scores of the entire class.

You can get a copy of the Academic Index on the Ivy League web site.

Both our boys chose not to go to Ivy League schools. They attended very-highly regarded Catholic universities instead.

One other point. I wouldn't call college recruiting "dirty". but there's a fair amount of mis-representation that goes on and amazingly especially by the Ivy League schools.

With schools that offer scholarships, there is no doubt about a school's real interest. But, with the Ivies and some others there's no way to really understand just how badly they want your son and whether they might be willing to use one of the valuable slots they have on the lower tiers of the Academic Index.

If you are in the upper tiers of the AI, relax. They are going to want you badly so they can offset the kids they want in the lower tiers.



Totally agree I will add that the Ivys focus only in core sports such us basketball ,football etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would a student/athlete place better for college coming from one of these schools because their counseling offices have close ties to recruitment coordinators and their college counseling offices are well versed in guiding students through the Academic Index?

In our experience:

1. If you are looking for help from any Admissions Counselor of Athletic Director or coach to guide you through the Academic Index and improve your son's chances, you are flat out of luck. College Counseling offices stay far away from the athletic recruiting process and the Academic Index. They know little about the Academic Index other than it exists.

Because they don't understand it, College counselors don't know quite what to do about it. And, we got the sense the Counseling staff felt that the whole thing was unfair as they saw less well-academically qualified athletes leapfrog over better students for admission to top schools. (They then had to explain to the parents of the better student why their son didn't get into Colle X, while a less well-qualified student did because of the athletic "hook".

2. The Academic Index score "Tiers" vary by college. Only the college Athletic staff and their Admissions people understand it and know where individual athletic recruits fall on it. A college is allowed only so-many athletic recruits in each of the Academic Index tiers. The College Athletic department has to decide where to spend their "chits".

3. What school's like Gonzaga, Prep and SJC have as an advantage over the publics is that they generally play in tougher conferences, have better coaching and the Admissions staff may have more confidence in students from these schools. The college athletic staff knows better from experience what they are actually getting in an athlete from one of these schools. From their perspective, it's less of a gamble.

There's also the better exposure these athletes get. In our experience at one of these schools you listed we found that the contacts with the Ivies were based on Ivy alumni watching these games and contacting the coaching staffs at their alma maters. College coaches don't always have confidence in what high school coaches tell them.

There are, however, exceptions to that where colleges have excellent relationships with some high school coaches based on friendships and long experience. This is an individual sport phenomenon. You can see it happen year after year in some sports, so it's obvious what is going on.

very good post - nice to see someone try to be positive and helpful for a change.

NP here. I'd add that there is no ONE recruiting process. The sport matter immensely, as does the gender of the student. Women's sports are required to make the Men's money sports work, so in a weird way, the recruiting for women's sports is much more intense, since there are fewer athletes and filling those teams is vital not just for the women's volleyball or soccer team, but also the men's football team.

For some men's sports, HS is the last place recruiting happens (soccer) where as for others, like football, it is basically the only place.

[Anonymous]

While some kids may attend Prep or GZ for a particular sport, people send will still send their kids to those schools irrespective of the sport simply because it is Georgetown Prep or Gonzaga. Those who do so, understand that the value of paying the tuition comes not only from the high level of education but also the overall experience, which follows you for a lifetime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While some kids may attend Prep or GZ for a particular sport, people send will still send their kids to those schools irrespective of the sport simply because it is Georgetown Prep or Gonzaga. Those who do so, understand that the value of paying the tuition comes not only from the high level of education but also the overall experience, which follows you for a lifetime.

and many of my family members attend both schools but you sound horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While some kids may attend Prep or GZ for a particular sport, people send will still send their kids to those schools irrespective of the sport simply because it is Georgetown Prep or Gonzaga. Those who do so, understand that the value of paying the tuition comes not only from the high level of education but also the overall experience, which follows you for a lifetime.

and many of my family members attend both schools but you sound horrible.

NP here ... I'd say this comment is a little harsh.

I didn't see anything wrong with that statement. The total experience --- including life after GP and GZA --- is what most people are signing up for when they send their boys to these schools. That "total experience" is what some of the more academically-focused and Ivy League obsessed on here don't get and almost can't get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While some kids may attend Prep or GZ for a particular sport, people send will still send their kids to those schools irrespective of the sport simply because it is Georgetown Prep or Gonzaga. Those who do so, understand that the value of paying the tuition comes not only from the high level of education but also the overall experience, which follows you for a lifetime.

and many of my family members attend both schools but you sound horrible.

NP here ... I'd say this comment is a little harsh.

I didn't see anything wrong with that statement. The total experience --- including life after GP and GZA --- is what most people are signing up for when they send their boys to these schools. That "total experience" is what some of the more academically-focused and Ivy League obsessed on here don't get and almost can't get.

+100

[Anonymous]

While some kids may attend Prep or GZ for a particular sport, people send will still send their kids to those schools irrespective of the sport simply because it is Georgetown Prep or Gonzaga. Those who do so, understand that the value of paying the tuition comes not only from the high level of education but also the overall experience, which follows you for a lifetime.

Well said PP. I think you could say the same thing about a few other schools in the IAC. (STA & Landon come to mind)