COVID Lockdowns Were a Giant Experiment. It Was a Failure.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My memory of it is that actual general “lockdowns” were brief and related to hospital capacity - we had to do whatever we could to avoid becoming New York.

The part that went on too long, was harmful and didn’t work well was remote schooling and masks for kids.

Assuming you didn't own a restaurant or a gym or want to go to a park.

They were very brief and restaurants reopened via carryout. Many struggled before and those that did well changed their business model to make it work. Others rightfully shut down.

You really don't have a clue. The forced change to a carry out model devastated restaurants. You can just retool overnight for something like that. It's not just buy some styrofoam takeout containers and let's go.

Actually many restaurants did just fine converting over. You sound like you have some serious issues if you are so inflexible and covid was so traumatic for you. Seek help.

Care to back that opinion up that many restaurants did just fine? Or are you making thing up out of thin air?

They are still open and busy. That means they are doing just fine. Some of the owners are opening up other restaurants... they are doing just fine if not very well. Many that shut down needed to close anyway.

Did you lose your business? Is that why you are so bitter?

Grow up and move on already. Millions of people died and all you care about is a playground.

You are intentionally missing the point. We care about mitigations that work, not performative measures that make a small, vocal, nutjob minority happy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My memory of it is that actual general “lockdowns” were brief and related to hospital capacity - we had to do whatever we could to avoid becoming New York.

The part that went on too long, was harmful and didn’t work well was remote schooling and masks for kids.

Agree with this but would add that in my neighborhood, outside masking and social distancing continued for much longer. I remember there being debate on the local list serve when people started unmasking on the sidewalk in spring if 2021 because they were vaccinated. Some people wanted everyone to keep masking outdoors and were upset by it.

In this same neighborhood, both my spouse and I got hassled at various points for not being masked outside even though we were far from other people. My DH once got yelled at out a car window for being unmasked on an otherwise empty sidewalk. Once a woman yelled at me from across the street for being unmasked (no one else was around). Another woman got mad once because I was walking down a wide sidewalk with my 2 yr old who was eating a granola bar, and the woman was angry to pass my toddler unmasked.

I wore a mask to go running for about 8 months because everyone saw that fake meme of a runner spewing Covid particles. I didn't want people to hate me, so I wore a gator while running. Then there was a "study" (debunked but people didn't read the debunking) that said gators actually spread more Covid. So then I had people yelling at me on my runs "gators don't work!" I started running at 5am or 10pm and running in the street so that I would encounter fewer people.

People really lost their minds for a while, and a lot of people who claimed to be following the science were actually following their own anxiety to weird, fascist places and calling it "science."

Wow. That does seem extreme. DW and I never experienced that when outdoors.

They are making it up. I still mask. No one has ever said anything.

Not making it up (PP here). And no one here would say anything about someone masking, even now. I wouldn't either-- I have no issue with anyone who chooses to mask for any reason and in fact I now where a mask when I have a cold if I have to be indoors with non-family, out of courtesy.

But yes, people where I live were kind of nuts about outdoor masking, even in situations where no one was around. People came to associate masking with virtue and that meant that masking even when there was zero risk was a sign of extra virtue. It was weird.

My DH and I masked that entire time, by the way. Just not if we were outside and alone or very far from only a couple people. Even our toddler masked. And despite that level of compliance, we still got harassed.

Stuff like that is why people would like to discuss things we might do differently next time.

We got covid from being outside at the pool, along with a bunch of other people so stop pretending like outdoor contact cannot happen. You should get mental health treatment given what a big deal with was and it happened several years ago.

You should not be going out with a cold. Simple.

You are suggesting that outdoor pools are a major source of COVID infections? Let's close pools. I am completely in favor of that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly at this point who cares. We did the best we could under a unique and heretofore inexperienced event. This is for scientists to be studying to plan for future pandemics. Getting angry now is ridiculous.

The problem is we weren’t allowed to ask questions and dissenting views were discouraged. Anytime you’re not allowed to ask questions or push back on something you should be concerned. The climate at the time didn’t allow questioning of precautions.

What are you talking about? There were plenty of people who questioned everything and did whatever they wanted anyway. It’s not like the police came and arrested people for expressing dissenting views. Even in early covid when people were dying, plenty of people questioned why they had to be inconvenienced to save other people’s lives and behaved accordingly. Lockdowns were never going to work in this country because we are a narcissistic and selfish society who rarely behave for the greater good of community.

+1 million - one of the most notable things about the COVID response was the almost immediate rise of a faction of loud people that were determined to push back against any measure that would inconvenience them in the slightest.

The measures were dumb. Just delaying the inevitable.

The truth is, we don't really know. There were too many people who ignored measures or implemented them improperly (see people with masks under their noses). And I don't trust a lot of data. See the lady on one of these threads who talks about how they were supposed to have a covid test before getting on a plane and the nurse came, they paid her to just go away, and she didn't do the test. So how many people did that nurse NOT test but report as negative? Repeat that kind of BS all over the country and you get suspect, useless "data".

So when people go on on here about "the data" i almost have to laugh. Except that it's so sad. What decent data do we really have?

And these same people are saying outright they will ignore public health directives next time around because of what they have "learned". Even though they have no idea what could be the cause of the next pandemic and how it will differ from covid.

God help us all.

Measures that the public is unable or unwilling to perform reliably are not effective public health measures. That should be a major lesson from the pandemic response. We spent 18 months keeping kids out of school and telling people to mask while walking on the sidewalk or between the restaurant table and bathroom rather than actually focusing on measures to help those at risk of severe illness.

We are talking about two different kinds of effective. There is effective re: preventing spread of a disease. Masking and some of the measures, had they been implemented widely and properly, could have done that.

You are talking about PR. Find me anything you can get all Americans to do these days. Americans are a bunch of stupid, entitled little sh**s who won't do much of anything if it inconveniences them.

Different things. And Americans' stupidity is not a valid reason not to try when something like a pandemic happens. But it is not encouraging for the future.

Also, plenty of the masking policies and mandates that were in place were not practical, effective, or necessary. Did you have a preschooler in the pandemic ostensibly subjected to all-day masking at age 2? Did you have children with ASD or sensory processing disorders? Did you live in a jurisdiction that required masks on the sidewalk, but not at a restaurant table?

Do you know how many germs there are on the street?!?!!?!??!? /s

This is a perfect example of a poster who is truly stupid. She doesn't know she is stupid, because stupid people think they are the smartest in the world.

So, why clean your house, car, bathroom or kitchen? Your food is not sitting on the street. Shows how stupid you are and you are why Covid spread and continues to. Good thing your housekeeper handles the cleaning and your nanny raises the kids.

Above pp said she posted sarcastically, maybe my comment was meant at you. Yes, at you, since you can't have a conversation with the person that has such low IQ as you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My memory of it is that actual general “lockdowns” were brief and related to hospital capacity - we had to do whatever we could to avoid becoming New York.

The part that went on too long, was harmful and didn’t work well was remote schooling and masks for kids.

Assuming you didn't own a restaurant or a gym or want to go to a park.

They were very brief and restaurants reopened via carryout. Many struggled before and those that did well changed their business model to make it work. Others rightfully shut down.

You really don't have a clue. The forced change to a carry out model devastated restaurants. You can just retool overnight for something like that. It's not just buy some styrofoam takeout containers and let's go.

Actually many restaurants did just fine converting over. You sound like you have some serious issues if you are so inflexible and covid was so traumatic for you. Seek help.

Care to back that opinion up that many restaurants did just fine? Or are you making thing up out of thin air?

They are still open and busy. That means they are doing just fine. Some of the owners are opening up other restaurants... they are doing just fine if not very well. Many that shut down needed to close anyway.

Did you lose your business? Is that why you are so bitter?

Grow up and move on already. Millions of people died and all you care about is a playground.

No. We're going to keep the conversation going and not pretend this didn't happen just because you're annoyed.

Except you are the one annoyed, not me.

Incessantly repeating that people died doesn’t make you sound very chill. You should probably take your own advice to get help since you seem traumatized by the loss of life.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Florida is 12th for highest mortality rate in the US for Covid deaths.

Yes but they have a much older population. The fact it’s only 12th practically proves the restrictions were pointless.

No. They had so many excess deaths. Age adjusted.

Of course there were additional deaths after the introduction of a new virus. That's not the question. The question is whether restrictions did anything to meaningfully decrease that number, or if they just caused unnecessary additional pain and suffering.

People who work in hospitals would disagree with you.

My neighbor down the street is a lifelong Republican and a hospital administrator. She voted for Democrats in 2020 and beyond because she told me the Democrats had it right about Covid and precautions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My memory of it is that actual general “lockdowns” were brief and related to hospital capacity - we had to do whatever we could to avoid becoming New York.

The part that went on too long, was harmful and didn’t work well was remote schooling and masks for kids.

Assuming you didn't own a restaurant or a gym or want to go to a park.

They were very brief and restaurants reopened via carryout. Many struggled before and those that did well changed their business model to make it work. Others rightfully shut down.

You really don't have a clue. The forced change to a carry out model devastated restaurants. You can just retool overnight for something like that. It's not just buy some styrofoam takeout containers and let's go.

Actually many restaurants did just fine converting over. You sound like you have some serious issues if you are so inflexible and covid was so traumatic for you. Seek help.

Care to back that opinion up that many restaurants did just fine? Or are you making thing up out of thin air?

They are still open and busy. That means they are doing just fine. Some of the owners are opening up other restaurants... they are doing just fine if not very well. Many that shut down needed to close anyway.

Did you lose your business? Is that why you are so bitter?

Grow up and move on already. Millions of people died and all you care about is a playground.

Millions were going to die either way. That's what happens, particularly to the old and/or unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think what we’re seeing in this thread is the last gasp of people who wish Moms for Liberty had been successful in turning school closures into an issue that won school board elections, and are upset that it turns out they are a bunch of political failures.

Is that what you think we're seeing? I think we're seeing people correctly observing that school closures and other restrictions were pointless. The upside is that when we next encountered a threat (monkey pox), the collective reaction was STFU about it.

They were not pointless. They were necessary.

Nah, they were pointless. When you had to mask on the 30-second walk to your restaurant table but could remain unmasked after that...yeah, pointless.

Nope, not pointless, protocols saved lives. Your not liking them (which is your prerogative there isn't a feelings police) does not equal pointless.

Where is the evidence of this? The spread wasn’t contained. Everybody gets infected, and now it’s evolved into a fairly benign illness. Vaccines don’t explain that since most people haven’t gotten a booster in ages.

2020/2021 is done and gone. No one is going to prison or will be executed for the protocols. Your dreams will not come true.

You’re responding to multiple posters. And yes, 2020/21 is done and gone, and those mistakes won’t be repeated again. The restrictionists used up all their capital. That’s the only silver lining out of all this.

Not even remotely true, but I know you need to tell yourself this, so have fun. Shrug.

I don't need to tell myself. It's just the truth. Restrictions are only coming back for some ebola-like, world-ending virus. Not a bad cold. Anything short of that will garner huge pushback from both sides of the political spectrum. There just aren't enough of you impractical, zero-illness types to move policy this time.

No, it isn’t, but again, I know you wrap this falsehood around yourself like a security blanket, so do continue.

Politics drive policy. Restrictions are now third-rail bad politics on both sides of the aisle. But you can hold out hope I suppose...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Florida is 12th for highest mortality rate in the US for Covid deaths.

Yes but they have a much older population. The fact it’s only 12th practically proves the restrictions were pointless.

No. They had so many excess deaths. Age adjusted.

Of course there were additional deaths after the introduction of a new virus. That's not the question. The question is whether restrictions did anything to meaningfully decrease that number, or if they just caused unnecessary additional pain and suffering.

People who work in hospitals would disagree with you.

My neighbor down the street is a lifelong Republican and a hospital administrator. She voted for Democrats in 2020 and beyond because she told me the Democrats had it right about Covid and precautions.

I work in a hospital. Or, I should say, I worked in a hospital during the pandemic. I'm in an outpatient setting now.

The rhetoric on both sides of the political spectrum was extreme. Yes, if you compare the loudest voices from politicians, the Republicans looked like idiots. But the Democrats still pushed restrictions that made no sense, pushed them for too long, and maintained them in areas where they weren't necessary for the stated goals. MoCo being a poster child for this.

[Anonymous]

NP. Yes, they were a failure. But I think in the beginning (March-April 2020) no one knew what the hell to do.

By summer 2020, it was becoming quite clear that covid wasn't really a serious concern for fairly healthy, non-elderly people.

Hindsight is 2020. Restrictions and mask mandates continued for FAR too long, and there wasn't enough emphasis on taking care of your health - going outside, exercising, eating your vegetables, etc. But I can't fault anyone for decisions in the early days - it was novel to all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My memory of it is that actual general “lockdowns” were brief and related to hospital capacity - we had to do whatever we could to avoid becoming New York.

The part that went on too long, was harmful and didn’t work well was remote schooling and masks for kids.

Assuming you didn't own a restaurant or a gym or want to go to a park.

They were very brief and restaurants reopened via carryout. Many struggled before and those that did well changed their business model to make it work. Others rightfully shut down.

You really don't have a clue. The forced change to a carry out model devastated restaurants. You can just retool overnight for something like that. It's not just buy some styrofoam takeout containers and let's go.

Actually many restaurants did just fine converting over. You sound like you have some serious issues if you are so inflexible and covid was so traumatic for you. Seek help.

Care to back that opinion up that many restaurants did just fine? Or are you making thing up out of thin air?

They are still open and busy. That means they are doing just fine. Some of the owners are opening up other restaurants... they are doing just fine if not very well. Many that shut down needed to close anyway.

Did you lose your business? Is that why you are so bitter?

Grow up and move on already. Millions of people died and all you care about is a playground.

You are intentionally missing the point. We care about mitigations that work, not performative measures that make a small, vocal, nutjob minority happy.

You don’t care about mitigation or you’d do simple things like masking indoors. So, stop pretending and stop with the silly comments that have no meaning to you like businesses struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Yes, they were a failure. But I think in the beginning (March-April 2020) no one knew what the hell to do.

By summer 2020, it was becoming quite clear that covid wasn't really a serious concern for fairly healthy, non-elderly people.

Hindsight is 2020. Restrictions and mask mandates continued for FAR too long, and there wasn't enough emphasis on taking care of your health - going outside, exercising, eating your vegetables, etc. But I can't fault anyone for decisions in the early days - it was novel to all of us.

There was an emphasis on taking care of yourself. Early on non elderly were dying too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Yes, they were a failure. But I think in the beginning (March-April 2020) no one knew what the hell to do.

By summer 2020, it was becoming quite clear that covid wasn't really a serious concern for fairly healthy, non-elderly people.

Hindsight is 2020. Restrictions and mask mandates continued for FAR too long, and there wasn't enough emphasis on taking care of your health - going outside, exercising, eating your vegetables, etc. But I can't fault anyone for decisions in the early days - it was novel to all of us.

There was an emphasis on taking care of yourself. Early on non elderly were dying too.

Covid deaths have always been *heavily* concentrated among the old and those with significant comorbidities.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly at this point who cares. We did the best we could under a unique and heretofore inexperienced event. This is for scientists to be studying to plan for future pandemics. Getting angry now is ridiculous.

The problem is we weren’t allowed to ask questions and dissenting views were discouraged. Anytime you’re not allowed to ask questions or push back on something you should be concerned. The climate at the time didn’t allow questioning of precautions.

What are you talking about? There were plenty of people who questioned everything and did whatever they wanted anyway. It’s not like the police came and arrested people for expressing dissenting views. Even in early covid when people were dying, plenty of people questioned why they had to be inconvenienced to save other people’s lives and behaved accordingly. Lockdowns were never going to work in this country because we are a narcissistic and selfish society who rarely behave for the greater good of community.

+1 million - one of the most notable things about the COVID response was the almost immediate rise of a faction of loud people that were determined to push back against any measure that would inconvenience them in the slightest.

The measures were dumb. Just delaying the inevitable.

The truth is, we don't really know. There were too many people who ignored measures or implemented them improperly (see people with masks under their noses). And I don't trust a lot of data. See the lady on one of these threads who talks about how they were supposed to have a covid test before getting on a plane and the nurse came, they paid her to just go away, and she didn't do the test. So how many people did that nurse NOT test but report as negative? Repeat that kind of BS all over the country and you get suspect, useless "data".

So when people go on on here about "the data" i almost have to laugh. Except that it's so sad. What decent data do we really have?

And these same people are saying outright they will ignore public health directives next time around because of what they have "learned". Even though they have no idea what could be the cause of the next pandemic and how it will differ from covid.

God help us all.

Measures that the public is unable or unwilling to perform reliably are not effective public health measures. That should be a major lesson from the pandemic response. We spent 18 months keeping kids out of school and telling people to mask while walking on the sidewalk or between the restaurant table and bathroom rather than actually focusing on measures to help those at risk of severe illness.

We are talking about two different kinds of effective. There is effective re: preventing spread of a disease. Masking and some of the measures, had they been implemented widely and properly, could have done that.

You are talking about PR. Find me anything you can get all Americans to do these days. Americans are a bunch of stupid, entitled little sh**s who won't do much of anything if it inconveniences them.

Different things. And Americans' stupidity is not a valid reason not to try when something like a pandemic happens. But it is not encouraging for the future.

Also, plenty of the masking policies and mandates that were in place were not practical, effective, or necessary. Did you have a preschooler in the pandemic ostensibly subjected to all-day masking at age 2? Did you have children with ASD or sensory processing disorders? Did you live in a jurisdiction that required masks on the sidewalk, but not at a restaurant table?

That may be true, but not everything was worthless. And think if all the adults had masked properly whenever they needed to. Would have meant the littlest kids could skip. But Americans always think they individually know best. And most Americans are not very bright. So do the math.

Ugh this is the type of moralistic “logic” that was so prevalent during the pandemic. The whole fallacy of “if people would just do X then we could finally do Y.” But in reality there was never any support for masking very young kids and we all knew they couldn’t actually do it well (not to mention the masks came off for snack and nap, so it was just arbitrary having it worn part of the day). And your claim about Americans is funny, you think your views are the superior one, but even the WHO said no masking for kids 5 and under. America was the outlier with young kids.

Your post makes no sense. You are arguing as if I recommended masks for kids which I did not. Why did the WHO not recommend masks for kids under 5? Because they can't wear them properly, correct. So the point was, the adults wear them, because they should know how. And my point is American's are stupid, which you...agree with?

Ugh back at you. You are an idiot who can't read.

You literally admit kids 5 and under couldn’t mask properly but at first argued if adults had masked the littlest kids could have skipped masking … which makes no sense. Restrictions for the youngest kids should never have been tied to adult restrictions. Young kids masking was never going to work even had all the adults masked or not masked or half masked or whatever they were going to do.

So arguing that little kids could have stopped masking of only adults had done what they were supposed to do is basically just admitting the mask restrictions were punitive toward kids because the adults wouldn’t mask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Florida is 12th for highest mortality rate in the US for Covid deaths.

Yes but they have a much older population. The fact it’s only 12th practically proves the restrictions were pointless.

No. They had so many excess deaths. Age adjusted.

Of course there were additional deaths after the introduction of a new virus. That's not the question. The question is whether restrictions did anything to meaningfully decrease that number, or if they just caused unnecessary additional pain and suffering.

People who work in hospitals would disagree with you.

My neighbor down the street is a lifelong Republican and a hospital administrator. She voted for Democrats in 2020 and beyond because she told me the Democrats had it right about Covid and precautions.

The democrats did very little and it was all show. (I am a democrat but disappointed in the examples the set and how they handled things). If they are encouraging masking policies they should mask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly at this point who cares. We did the best we could under a unique and heretofore inexperienced event. This is for scientists to be studying to plan for future pandemics. Getting angry now is ridiculous.

The problem is we weren’t allowed to ask questions and dissenting views were discouraged. Anytime you’re not allowed to ask questions or push back on something you should be concerned. The climate at the time didn’t allow questioning of precautions.

What are you talking about? There were plenty of people who questioned everything and did whatever they wanted anyway. It’s not like the police came and arrested people for expressing dissenting views. Even in early covid when people were dying, plenty of people questioned why they had to be inconvenienced to save other people’s lives and behaved accordingly. Lockdowns were never going to work in this country because we are a narcissistic and selfish society who rarely behave for the greater good of community.

+1 million - one of the most notable things about the COVID response was the almost immediate rise of a faction of loud people that were determined to push back against any measure that would inconvenience them in the slightest.

The measures were dumb. Just delaying the inevitable.

The truth is, we don't really know. There were too many people who ignored measures or implemented them improperly (see people with masks under their noses). And I don't trust a lot of data. See the lady on one of these threads who talks about how they were supposed to have a covid test before getting on a plane and the nurse came, they paid her to just go away, and she didn't do the test. So how many people did that nurse NOT test but report as negative? Repeat that kind of BS all over the country and you get suspect, useless "data".

So when people go on on here about "the data" i almost have to laugh. Except that it's so sad. What decent data do we really have?

And these same people are saying outright they will ignore public health directives next time around because of what they have "learned". Even though they have no idea what could be the cause of the next pandemic and how it will differ from covid.

God help us all.

Measures that the public is unable or unwilling to perform reliably are not effective public health measures. That should be a major lesson from the pandemic response. We spent 18 months keeping kids out of school and telling people to mask while walking on the sidewalk or between the restaurant table and bathroom rather than actually focusing on measures to help those at risk of severe illness.

We are talking about two different kinds of effective. There is effective re: preventing spread of a disease. Masking and some of the measures, had they been implemented widely and properly, could have done that.

You are talking about PR. Find me anything you can get all Americans to do these days. Americans are a bunch of stupid, entitled little sh**s who won't do much of anything if it inconveniences them.

Different things. And Americans' stupidity is not a valid reason not to try when something like a pandemic happens. But it is not encouraging for the future.

Also, plenty of the masking policies and mandates that were in place were not practical, effective, or necessary. Did you have a preschooler in the pandemic ostensibly subjected to all-day masking at age 2? Did you have children with ASD or sensory processing disorders? Did you live in a jurisdiction that required masks on the sidewalk, but not at a restaurant table?

That may be true, but not everything was worthless. And think if all the adults had masked properly whenever they needed to. Would have meant the littlest kids could skip. But Americans always think they individually know best. And most Americans are not very bright. So do the math.

Ugh this is the type of moralistic “logic” that was so prevalent during the pandemic. The whole fallacy of “if people would just do X then we could finally do Y.” But in reality there was never any support for masking very young kids and we all knew they couldn’t actually do it well (not to mention the masks came off for snack and nap, so it was just arbitrary having it worn part of the day). And your claim about Americans is funny, you think your views are the superior one, but even the WHO said no masking for kids 5 and under. America was the outlier with young kids.

Your post makes no sense. You are arguing as if I recommended masks for kids which I did not. Why did the WHO not recommend masks for kids under 5? Because they can't wear them properly, correct. So the point was, the adults wear them, because they should know how. And my point is American's are stupid, which you...agree with?

Ugh back at you. You are an idiot who can't read.

You literally admit kids 5 and under couldn’t mask properly but at first argued if adults had masked the littlest kids could have skipped masking … which makes no sense. Restrictions for the youngest kids should never have been tied to adult restrictions. Young kids masking was never going to work even had all the adults masked or not masked or half masked or whatever they were going to do.

So arguing that little kids could have stopped masking of only adults had done what they were supposed to do is basically just admitting the mask restrictions were punitive toward kids because the adults wouldn’t mask.

Plenty of young kids masked and were just fine with it. Others were not but some of it had to do with the parents, more than the kids.