Harvard vs. Williams (Tyng Scholarship) vs. Yale vs. Washington and Lee (Johnson Scholarship)

[Anonymous]

Blessed to have some great options and deciding which would be best for a student who wants to eventually attend graduate school in economics. Here are some pros and cons of each.

Harvard- 9K a year
Pros: Name brand/power, opportunities and funding for just about everything, world-class faculty members, exceptional students, Cambridge/Boston location and proximity, one of the best economics departments in the world
Cons: Undergraduate education and intimacy/communal feel not quite as strong as the rest, more of a pre-professional vibe than the others, worry that he's not a good cultural fit for the more pre-professional/type A student body

Williams- 5K a year
Pros: Tyng guarantees 20K in experiences for four paid summers of opportunity, exclusive liberal arts experience that is highly reputable, unique academic highlights like tutorials and winter term, professors are there to teach, great communal feel and caring students, acclaimed economics departments among LACs
Cons: Not well known to the general public, quite isolated from city-life, does not have the brightest students and faculty of H/Y, lacks in absolute resources compared to them

Yale- 10K a year
Pros: everything of H but without as strong a name brand and as nice a location, residential colleges make for an intimate LAC community within a large university, more accessible professors and a better commitment to UG teaching than most other universities
Cons: New Haven doesn't have a great vibe, culture is very intimidating and high-strung as students are expected to be the best they can be

Washington and Lee- free
Pros: complete full ride + 7K in guaranteed opportunity funding, outstanding liberal arts education with committed faculty, good econ departments among LACs
Cons: Not a great cultural fit at all, the greek scene worries him, least prestigious of these choices and doesn't attract the same quality of students/faculty, pretty isolated from the city

Which would you pick? Anything that is missing? The four year differences are 20-40K a year for picking H/Y over the LACs, and they won't get matched since the scholarships are merit based.

[Anonymous]

harvard. this is not complicated.

[Anonymous]

Williams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Williams.

Do they ski?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:harvard. this is not complicated.

Agree.

[Anonymous]

My opinion, FWIW:

I see some misinformation in these pros and cons. Williams has a top-notch student body and faculty and doesn't suffer from lack of resources. For a student who plans to go to grad school, "not well known to the general public" is immaterial. Williams is extremely well-known by grad programs nationwide. And the notion that Yale doesn't have as strong a name brand as Harvard is, well, crazy.

I think the Harvard experience is materially different from that of Williams and W&L, and not in a good way. Personally, I know several people who went to Harvard undergrad and none of them loved it; few of them even liked it all that much. (By contrast, I also know several people who went to Harvard for grad school, and all speak well of the experience.) I wouldn't encourage one of my kids to go there for undergrad. Given a choice between Yale and Harvard for undergrad, I think Yale wins every day and twice on Sunday.

Just reading the words written above and taking them at face value, it sounds like the student wants to go to Williams or Yale and that Harvard is still on the list because it's Harvard and W&L is still on the list because it's a free ride. I've said what I think about Harvard. Regarding W&L, I don't think free ride is enough to overcome the fact that it isn't a good cultural fit at all. I'd take it off the table.

So I'd narrow it down to Yale and Williams and then I'd make the decision based on whether student prefers rural SLAC or larger, urban environment. The rest are distinctions without differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My opinion, FWIW:

I see some misinformation in these pros and cons. Williams has a top-notch student body and faculty and doesn't suffer from lack of resources. For a student who plans to go to grad school, "not well known to the general public" is immaterial. Williams is extremely well-known by grad programs nationwide. And the notion that Yale doesn't have as strong a name brand as Harvard is, well, crazy.

I think the Harvard experience is materially different from that of Williams and W&L, and not in a good way. Personally, I know several people who went to Harvard undergrad and none of them loved it; few of them even liked it all that much. (By contrast, I also know several people who went to Harvard for grad school, and all speak well of the experience.) I wouldn't encourage one of my kids to go there for undergrad. Given a choice between Yale and Harvard for undergrad, I think Yale wins every day and twice on Sunday.

Just reading the words written above and taking them at face value, it sounds like the student wants to go to Williams or Yale and that Harvard is still on the list because it's Harvard and W&L is still on the list because it's a free ride. I've said what I think about Harvard. Regarding W&L, I don't think free ride is enough to overcome the fact that it isn't a good cultural fit at all. I'd take it off the table.

So I'd narrow it down to Yale and Williams and then I'd make the decision based on whether student prefers rural SLAC or larger, urban environment. The rest are distinctions without differences.

meant to say that **given the low cost of the other choices** I don't think free ride at W&L is enough to overcome the lack of fit.

[Anonymous]

W&L alumna here.

I think your cons are a bit off. Yale is every much a brand name as Harvard. In the LAC world, Williams is the top brand name.

The Greek scene at W&L is weird. I found that because so many students do it, it becomes less of a big deal, compared to bigger schools where 20-20% of student body does it, therefore those students then become more elitist and fratty. Because so many students go Greek, it just becomes less of a deal if that makes sense.

While I was a student, I didn't realize the econ department was a big deal, but many of my classmates and other alumni have gone on to do really great things.

If I were this student, I might pick Williams or Yale.

[Anonymous]

What did the people you know not like abt Harvard?

[Anonymous]

Choose Yale.

-Harvard grad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My opinion, FWIW:

I see some misinformation in these pros and cons. Williams has a top-notch student body and faculty and doesn't suffer from lack of resources. For a student who plans to go to grad school, "not well known to the general public" is immaterial. Williams is extremely well-known by grad programs nationwide. And the notion that Yale doesn't have as strong a name brand as Harvard is, well, crazy.

I think the Harvard experience is materially different from that of Williams and W&L, and not in a good way. Personally, I know several people who went to Harvard undergrad and none of them loved it; few of them even liked it all that much. (By contrast, I also know several people who went to Harvard for grad school, and all speak well of the experience.) I wouldn't encourage one of my kids to go there for undergrad. Given a choice between Yale and Harvard for undergrad, I think Yale wins every day and twice on Sunday.

Just reading the words written above and taking them at face value, it sounds like the student wants to go to Williams or Yale and that Harvard is still on the list because it's Harvard and W&L is still on the list because it's a free ride. I've said what I think about Harvard. Regarding W&L, I don't think free ride is enough to overcome the fact that it isn't a good cultural fit at all. I'd take it off the table.

So I'd narrow it down to Yale and Williams and then I'd make the decision based on whether student prefers rural SLAC or larger, urban environment. The rest are distinctions without differences.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. You hit the nail on the head, basically. His top choices are W and Y. He perceives H to have a bigger name brand to the general public, but he knows Y is right up there. He's keeping the Johnson scholarship under consideration because it is an unbeatable package, and he's still not sure if paying 40K more against one of the best LACs in the country is worth the economic cost. What he means by the comment about Williams is that the brightest students in the country are generally not going to the LACs but rather the Ivies. He knows that the average W student is as intelligent as the average H/Y student, but the top universities attract the future Nobel prize winners/politicians/etc, have Nobel laureate faculty, etc. He feels that there will be a difference in the connections he makes, and if he wants to switch from graduate school, Williams could hurt him.

He wonders if the concerns about Harvard U not being great are over-exaggerated by people who don't attend the school, because according to cross-admit battles, Harvard wins against Yale 62% to 38%. Do you think there's a reason for this? Is there something H has that Y does not?

He wasn't turned off by William's rural nature and loved the community there more than any other school he visited, but he'd prefer access to a city if possible. Not a big deal breaker, but he thinks it'd be nice to get out of campus too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My opinion, FWIW:

I see some misinformation in these pros and cons. Williams has a top-notch student body and faculty and doesn't suffer from lack of resources. For a student who plans to go to grad school, "not well known to the general public" is immaterial. Williams is extremely well-known by grad programs nationwide. And the notion that Yale doesn't have as strong a name brand as Harvard is, well, crazy.

I think the Harvard experience is materially different from that of Williams and W&L, and not in a good way. Personally, I know several people who went to Harvard undergrad and none of them loved it; few of them even liked it all that much. (By contrast, I also know several people who went to Harvard for grad school, and all speak well of the experience.) I wouldn't encourage one of my kids to go there for undergrad. Given a choice between Yale and Harvard for undergrad, I think Yale wins every day and twice on Sunday.

Just reading the words written above and taking them at face value, it sounds like the student wants to go to Williams or Yale and that Harvard is still on the list because it's Harvard and W&L is still on the list because it's a free ride. I've said what I think about Harvard. Regarding W&L, I don't think free ride is enough to overcome the fact that it isn't a good cultural fit at all. I'd take it off the table.

So I'd narrow it down to Yale and Williams and then I'd make the decision based on whether student prefers rural SLAC or larger, urban environment. The rest are distinctions without differences.

Strange my dh and all his college friends loved a Harvard. Perhaps you just know unhappy people.

Can't imagine wanting to spend four years in western Mass(too isolated) or New Haven (too depressingly poor).

[Anonymous]

This is a wonderful dilemma that yields an easy decision.

Harvard.

-- Columbia grad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Choose Yale.

-Harvard grad

I'm the PP who said she knew several people at Harvard. And this ^^^ is exactly what I suspect each of them would say.

The overwhelming sense I've gotten from 4 people I knew who were Harvard undergrads is that they felt lonely there. Not a lot of support for undergrads, not much community among the students. I could be totally wrong, but that's the sense I've gotten. My sample size is small, but it's striking to me that they all give off a similar vibe about the place.

Like I said, I also know several people who went to grad school there (public policy, public health, political science, law school). All loved it.

[Anonymous]

This is an odd question. Does he like or play sports? 1/2 of the Williams students are on a sports teams since it's dIv 3. There are no club sports. My DH went there and loved it. He swam. He had a great intimate experience with professors and students and we are friends with many still 15 years later. A ridiculous number of them went to Harvard and Yale law.