"Opening up" means risking your life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it was Montana that had NYC Covid-19 numbers, would NYC shut down their economy?

If they had any sense, they would. I mean Italy warned the world what was coming for them. Good leaders listened and prepared.

But they would not. Guaranteed.

By your reasoning Montana should "open up" and let alot of people die. Is that really what you are arguing for?

If Montana wants to open for business, yes they should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it was Montana that had NYC Covid-19 numbers, would NYC shut down their economy?

If they had any sense, they would. I mean Italy warned the world what was coming for them. Good leaders listened and prepared.

But they would not. Guaranteed.

By your reasoning Montana should "open up" and let alot of people die. Is that really what you are arguing for?

If Montana wants to open for business, yes they should.

Has Montana met Trump's criteria for reopening?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/#criteria

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of competing viewpoints on what the endgame is here. For some it’s obviously a vaccine, and we should all stay home until then. I don’t think that is realistic for a number of reasons. I thought Hogan’s plan was practical and included straightforward goals. There needs to be more testing and shoring up of hospitals. Flattening year curve still means that most of us will likely be exposed, just over a longer period of time. Those that don’t want to risk being exposed at all should continue take extra precautions.

But yes, other states are in fact “going first“, so we will be able to see how it turns out for them before the DMV really opens up.

This is EVERYBODY's PLAN, it's just that one side wants to get moving now, testing and supplies be damned. Not smart.

Is it? Seems like there are some that want to stay home indefinitely. It will always be “too soon” for someone.

Name them.

Pretty much every teacher and daycare teacher for starters. Teachers unions will come out hard against reopening.

I can't imagine why a daycare teacher or teacher in a school - which are petri dishes to begin with - don't want to be more critically exposed to kids, and their families, or worse, they don't want to expose the kids or their families themselves.

How about you go do it first?

I’m a Fed, so we probably will be some of the first back in the office and riding metro, but not sure *how* if I have no childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

Yes. The people who blather on about stock options are not grounded in the realities that most Americans face.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

I know working class people, but very few people who have substantial stock holdings, and I'm not hearing anything kind of move to reopen from any working class people. The people who can't work are worried about their finances, but I've not heard anyone who wants to risk their lives to reopen. If you look, you'll also see plenty of people who can work striking for PPE or calling in sick or quitting to avoid potential infection. The only person I've heard personally push against the shutdown is my boss, a business owner, not a worker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

I know working class people, but very few people who have substantial stock holdings, and I'm not hearing anything kind of move to reopen from any working class people. The people who can't work are worried about their finances, but I've not heard anyone who wants to risk their lives to reopen. If you look, you'll also see plenty of people who can work striking for PPE or calling in sick or quitting to avoid potential infection. The only person I've heard personally push against the shutdown is my boss, a business owner, not a worker.

Funny - I just got an email from three local small businesses gleefully stating they are open.

NOW.

They’re not even waiting for the deadline. Whether it’s because they were losing money or they don’t ‘believe’ in Coronavirus, they are not staying closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

I know working class people, but very few people who have substantial stock holdings, and I'm not hearing anything kind of move to reopen from any working class people. The people who can't work are worried about their finances, but I've not heard anyone who wants to risk their lives to reopen. If you look, you'll also see plenty of people who can work striking for PPE or calling in sick or quitting to avoid potential infection. The only person I've heard personally push against the shutdown is my boss, a business owner, not a worker.

Funny - I just got an email from three local small businesses gleefully stating they are open.

NOW.

They’re not even waiting for the deadline. Whether it’s because they were losing money or they don’t ‘believe’ in Coronavirus, they are not staying closed.

That’s helpful to know who to boycott.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

I'd probably want to conduct a scientific poll, actually, rather than just ask one person, no? But no one said people here were good at math or science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

It's so much easier to snark from a bunker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of competing viewpoints on what the endgame is here. For some it’s obviously a vaccine, and we should all stay home until then. I don’t think that is realistic for a number of reasons. I thought Hogan’s plan was practical and included straightforward goals. There needs to be more testing and shoring up of hospitals. Flattening year curve still means that most of us will likely be exposed, just over a longer period of time. Those that don’t want to risk being exposed at all should continue take extra precautions.

But yes, other states are in fact “going first“, so we will be able to see how it turns out for them before the DMV really opens up.

This is EVERYBODY's PLAN, it's just that one side wants to get moving now, testing and supplies be damned. Not smart.

Is it? Seems like there are some that want to stay home indefinitely. It will always be “too soon” for someone.

Name them.

Pretty much every teacher and daycare teacher for starters. Teachers unions will come out hard against reopening.

I can't imagine why a daycare teacher or teacher in a school - which are petri dishes to begin with - don't want to be more critically exposed to kids, and their families, or worse, they don't want to expose the kids or their families themselves.

How about you go do it first?

I’m a Fed, so we probably will be some of the first back in the office and riding metro, but not sure *how* if I have no childcare.

I think it depends on where your office is located. Managers have broad discretion, but managers being managers, expect the worst and hope for the mediocre. The plan seems to envision masked employees sitting around a conference table, with ample hand sanitizer and toilet paper available. I'm not sure that the Metro is first and foremost in Trump's mind. Most Republicans don't commute by Metro. But I doubt most of the neoliberal people here do either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of competing viewpoints on what the endgame is here. For some it’s obviously a vaccine, and we should all stay home until then. I don’t think that is realistic for a number of reasons. I thought Hogan’s plan was practical and included straightforward goals. There needs to be more testing and shoring up of hospitals. Flattening year curve still means that most of us will likely be exposed, just over a longer period of time. Those that don’t want to risk being exposed at all should continue take extra precautions.

But yes, other states are in fact “going first“, so we will be able to see how it turns out for them before the DMV really opens up.

This is EVERYBODY's PLAN, it's just that one side wants to get moving now, testing and supplies be damned. Not smart.

Is it? Seems like there are some that want to stay home indefinitely. It will always be “too soon” for someone.

Name them.

Pretty much every teacher and daycare teacher for starters. Teachers unions will come out hard against reopening.

I can't imagine why a daycare teacher or teacher in a school - which are petri dishes to begin with - don't want to be more critically exposed to kids, and their families, or worse, they don't want to expose the kids or their families themselves.

How about you go do it first?

I’m a Fed, so we probably will be some of the first back in the office and riding metro, but not sure *how* if I have no childcare.

I think it depends on where your office is located. Managers have broad discretion, but managers being managers, expect the worst and hope for the mediocre. The plan seems to envision masked employees sitting around a conference table, with ample hand sanitizer and toilet paper available. I'm not sure that the Metro is first and foremost in Trump's mind. Most Republicans don't commute by Metro. But I doubt most of the neoliberal people here do either.

Considering traditional summer break is less than 4 weeks away I'm pretty sure companies will simply say 'whatever it was you did with your kids over the summer anyway'.

As for the parents who took liberal summer leave to WFH, that's over and done with. You've already used all your free grace WFH over the last 8 weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of competing viewpoints on what the endgame is here. For some it’s obviously a vaccine, and we should all stay home until then. I don’t think that is realistic for a number of reasons. I thought Hogan’s plan was practical and included straightforward goals. There needs to be more testing and shoring up of hospitals. Flattening year curve still means that most of us will likely be exposed, just over a longer period of time. Those that don’t want to risk being exposed at all should continue take extra precautions.

But yes, other states are in fact “going first“, so we will be able to see how it turns out for them before the DMV really opens up.

This is EVERYBODY's PLAN, it's just that one side wants to get moving now, testing and supplies be damned. Not smart.

Is it? Seems like there are some that want to stay home indefinitely. It will always be “too soon” for someone.

Name them.

Pretty much every teacher and daycare teacher for starters. Teachers unions will come out hard against reopening.

I can't imagine why a daycare teacher or teacher in a school - which are petri dishes to begin with - don't want to be more critically exposed to kids, and their families, or worse, they don't want to expose the kids or their families themselves.

How about you go do it first?

I’m a Fed, so we probably will be some of the first back in the office and riding metro, but not sure *how* if I have no childcare.

I think it depends on where your office is located. Managers have broad discretion, but managers being managers, expect the worst and hope for the mediocre. The plan seems to envision masked employees sitting around a conference table, with ample hand sanitizer and toilet paper available. I'm not sure that the Metro is first and foremost in Trump's mind. Most Republicans don't commute by Metro. But I doubt most of the neoliberal people here do either.

Considering traditional summer break is less than 4 weeks away I'm pretty sure companies will simply say 'whatever it was you did with your kids over the summer anyway'.

As for the parents who took liberal summer leave to WFH, that's over and done with. You've already used all your free grace WFH over the last 8 weeks.

“Whatever you did over the summer” is called “camp” for most people. Are those opening?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

Exactly what do you think should be done?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to think that some actual members of the working class might reasonably want reopenings for reasons that have little or nothing to do with GOP CEOs’ stock holdings.

You should find an actual member of the working class and ask them. I guarantee that you are not one.

DP. You are right- I am a government employee and am grateful that I am not likely to lose my job. But I have plenty of family members who are working class, some are still working in essential positions. My 66yo dad has no business being out there working with his smoking history but he fears losing his paycheck more than the virus. So he continues to work.

The tone deafness in this board is astounding to me sometimes. Be the liberal you profess to be and put yourself in someone else’s shoes.

Exactly what do you think should be done?

DP. Maybe just try to think a little harder about a response other than "you first" and stock market gains.