Gene Hackman R.I.P.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the rat infestation was heavier than originally thought. God how disgusting!

I feel VINDICATED! A couple of you doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on me that there were no mice/rats in the house. I told you -- no way! I know mice and know how they work. For several postings, and links that I provided, I insisted that there were mice in that main house and that the house was not as clean and you guys assumed.

You guys called me crazy. But here it is! The house apparently was more like I described. To have died from Hantavirus, there had to be a lot of exposure to mouse droppings. No way Betsy walked out to a barn one day, breathed in some droppings, and walked back in and fell over. Mice are disgusting and they multiply very, very quickly. Once you see a mouse, there are many others nearby. And they leave droppings all over the place.

There were at least two or three of you that kept harping on me and said that I was crazy because the reports you had read only said that they found some evidence outside of the main house and along near other buildings.

The door was left open; the style of house was open to outside access; Betsy was a 65 year old woman caring for a 95 year old man with dementia. They had called pest control/maintenance and that is who found them a few weeks later.

Sometimes on dcum, you have to believe the posters that say they know this crap, no matter how badly you want to believe that an icon like Gene was living in a dirty, rat infested home. He's a person, and maybe cleanliness was not their thing.

Some of you have posted the articles. I am reposting here: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/gene-hackman-betsy-arakawa-property-020726959.html

However… from that article:
“The feces were found in two small homes, three sheds, three garages and two vehicles, per the outlet.

Rodent activity was also found in three detached garages.

The public health department determined that the pair’s main house showed no signs of infestation.

So it’s as those posters were saying.

Nope-- you are wrong. Again, mice just do not work that way. She did not get Hantavirus from walking outside of the main house each day for weeks on end. She got it by driving around in her car, and I'm certain there were mice in that house. She probably cleaned up after them because with the doors kept open, there is just no way. Smart people and people who have had mice know this, but we will let that charade continue.

Also note that "found no evidence of" is not the same as "there were none there." They just didn't observe any at the time of their investigation, which goes to show that all of the others observed were out in the open! Imagine finding live and dead mice in the cars!

Bottom line is that the property will have to be condemned or will sell at far below value if anyone wants to purchase it with a known health hazard that is deadly. That's sad. Many pest control companies could have helped a bit more. The problem with the mice in many ways was the property architecture and location.

Was it mice or rats?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the rat infestation was heavier than originally thought. God how disgusting!

I feel VINDICATED! A couple of you doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on me that there were no mice/rats in the house. I told you -- no way! I know mice and know how they work. For several postings, and links that I provided, I insisted that there were mice in that main house and that the house was not as clean and you guys assumed.

You guys called me crazy. But here it is! The house apparently was more like I described. To have died from Hantavirus, there had to be a lot of exposure to mouse droppings. No way Betsy walked out to a barn one day, breathed in some droppings, and walked back in and fell over. Mice are disgusting and they multiply very, very quickly. Once you see a mouse, there are many others nearby. And they leave droppings all over the place.

There were at least two or three of you that kept harping on me and said that I was crazy because the reports you had read only said that they found some evidence outside of the main house and along near other buildings.

The door was left open; the style of house was open to outside access; Betsy was a 65 year old woman caring for a 95 year old man with dementia. They had called pest control/maintenance and that is who found them a few weeks later.

Sometimes on dcum, you have to believe the posters that say they know this crap, no matter how badly you want to believe that an icon like Gene was living in a dirty, rat infested home. He's a person, and maybe cleanliness was not their thing.

Some of you have posted the articles. I am reposting here: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/gene-hackman-betsy-arakawa-property-020726959.html

However… from that article:
“The feces were found in two small homes, three sheds, three garages and two vehicles, per the outlet.

Rodent activity was also found in three detached garages.

The public health department determined that the pair’s main house showed no signs of infestation.

So it’s as those posters were saying.

Nope-- you are wrong. Again, mice just do not work that way. She did not get Hantavirus from walking outside of the main house each day for weeks on end. She got it by driving around in her car, and I'm certain there were mice in that house. She probably cleaned up after them because with the doors kept open, there is just no way. Smart people and people who have had mice know this, but we will let that charade continue.

Also note that "found no evidence of" is not the same as "there were none there." They just didn't observe any at the time of their investigation, which goes to show that all of the others observed were out in the open! Imagine finding live and dead mice in the cars!

Bottom line is that the property will have to be condemned or will sell at far below value if anyone wants to purchase it with a known health hazard that is deadly. That's sad. Many pest control companies could have helped a bit more. The problem with the mice in many ways was the property architecture and location.

Was it mice or rats?

It’s deer mice that generally carry Hanta but I don’t think the PP has much knowledge about what it’s like to live in a place like northern New Mexico. I’m from Arizona. The issue is that when the land is so dry there is a lot of dust and stuff gets aerosolized. So if you are doing something that pushes up air and it gets into your nose, that can spread hanta, so it could have been from outside exposure if she kicked up dirt, or it could have been from a barn or something. Also mice out west don’t tend to live in houses the way they do here because most construction is solid concrete or adobe, not wood/drywall like you have here—I never knew anyone in Arizona that had mice inside the house llle is so common out east. In garages or outhouses, yes, you can get mice. Most of the US cases of hanta come from NM or AZ. Here’s an info sheet from a county in I think Arizona that indicates you can get it from yard work if you kick up the dust:

https://files.arapahoeco.gov/Public%20Health/Disease%20fact%20Sheets_en/Hanta%20Virus.pdf

I think hiking around a remote property could be the same — anything that kicks up the dust by where the mice were living.

In AZ we also get valley fever that comes from kicking up spores in the dust — you inhale the fungal spores that live on the dust. I think hanta is the same way—you inhale the virus as dust without realizing it. Because there’s no humidity in the air stuff just gets kicked up into the air and you inhale it more easily than out here. That’s why cowboys wore bandanas over their face!

[Anonymous]

Also, it’s really really common to have rodents on your property in the desert. It’s almost impossible not to have rodents in a property that size. Not in the house but very common in the vehicles etc. I know lots and lots of people that had kangaroo rats nest in their car engines and/or their jacuzzi engines. It’s a major PitA because they chew through the wires and their nexts can catch fire when the motor runs. Kangaroo rats are just the worst but they don’t carry hanta as often as deer mice do. Expecting a property that size to be rodent free is like expecting it to be insect free — not gonna happen.
She probably went into the garage to get something out of storage and when she moved it a big puff of dust came up into her face. We’ve all done something like that but most of us aren’t living in places where hanta virus is endemic.
It’s weird to me that there were rodents in the guest houses however. That suggests poor maintenance around the doorway entries or something, or really surprising construction for the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, it’s really really common to have rodents on your property in the desert. It’s almost impossible not to have rodents in a property that size. Not in the house but very common in the vehicles etc. I know lots and lots of people that had kangaroo rats nest in their car engines and/or their jacuzzi engines. It’s a major PitA because they chew through the wires and their nexts can catch fire when the motor runs. Kangaroo rats are just the worst but they don’t carry hanta as often as deer mice do. Expecting a property that size to be rodent free is like expecting it to be insect free — not gonna happen.
She probably went into the garage to get something out of storage and when she moved it a big puff of dust came up into her face. We’ve all done something like that but most of us aren’t living in places where hanta virus is endemic.
It’s weird to me that there were rodents in the guest houses however. That suggests poor maintenance around the doorway entries or something, or really surprising construction for the area.

This is what I get exhausted with -- the excuses. "She probably went into the garage to get something out of storage and when she moved it a big puff of dust came up into her face." or that "It’s weird to me that there were rodents in the guest houses however. That suggests poor maintenance around the doorway entries or something."

The bottom line is that there were rodents/mice/rat-like creatures, dead and alive, nests also spotted, in 8 of the surrounding buildings of their main area. Not two or 3 buildings, but all 8, including two casitas. Also dead and alive rodents/mice/rat-like creatures were located in two or three of their vehicles/cars, and in several of their garages. You are acting like "yeah, the are present in this part of the country, but not that big a deal, just let them run their course..."

-Didn't Betsy drive vehicles or a vehicle often and ran errands throughout the day to the vet, shopping, her business, the doctors, etc, in her vehicle(s)?

-Didn't they leave doors open around the house that led to the outside of their home, which includes walkways, etc?
-Even if Betsy went into the garage and put her hand in feces or urine by mistake, wasn't their evidence that they existed there and that she had an infestation?
-Is Hantavirus/deer mice new in this area or a pretty common and known occurrence? You said yourself that "Expecting a property that size to be rodent free is like expecting it to be insect free — not gonna happen." So it seems like she knew about the mice, had traps laid out in the other buildings.
-Isn't is also possible that there were mice that managed to get inside of the house?

Any way you look at it, there was a lot of potential exposure to mice and Hantavirus on the property, whether it was in one of the cars, in one of the casitas or other 8 buildings, in the garages, or randomly in the home since they left doors open and the design of the terraces, etc. created openings. It DOES NOT TAKE huge openings for mice to get into a house. They only need an opening about the size of a quarter. They squeeze their bodies into shapes to get into tiny spaces. But like it or not, a full infestation was going on and Betsy and her maintenance guy could not get control over it.
-

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the rat infestation was heavier than originally thought. God how disgusting!

I feel VINDICATED! A couple of you doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on me that there were no mice/rats in the house. I told you -- no way! I know mice and know how they work. For several postings, and links that I provided, I insisted that there were mice in that main house and that the house was not as clean and you guys assumed.

You guys called me crazy. But here it is! The house apparently was more like I described. To have died from Hantavirus, there had to be a lot of exposure to mouse droppings. No way Betsy walked out to a barn one day, breathed in some droppings, and walked back in and fell over. Mice are disgusting and they multiply very, very quickly. Once you see a mouse, there are many others nearby. And they leave droppings all over the place.

There were at least two or three of you that kept harping on me and said that I was crazy because the reports you had read only said that they found some evidence outside of the main house and along near other buildings.

The door was left open; the style of house was open to outside access; Betsy was a 65 year old woman caring for a 95 year old man with dementia. They had called pest control/maintenance and that is who found them a few weeks later.

Sometimes on dcum, you have to believe the posters that say they know this crap, no matter how badly you want to believe that an icon like Gene was living in a dirty, rat infested home. He's a person, and maybe cleanliness was not their thing.

Some of you have posted the articles. I am reposting here: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/gene-hackman-betsy-arakawa-property-020726959.html

However… from that article:
“The feces were found in two small homes, three sheds, three garages and two vehicles, per the outlet.

Rodent activity was also found in three detached garages.

The public health department determined that the pair’s main house showed no signs of infestation.

So it’s as those posters were saying.

Nope-- you are wrong. Again, mice just do not work that way. She did not get Hantavirus from walking outside of the main house each day for weeks on end. She got it by driving around in her car, and I'm certain there were mice in that house. She probably cleaned up after them because with the doors kept open, there is just no way. Smart people and people who have had mice know this, but we will let that charade continue.

Also note that "found no evidence of" is not the same as "there were none there." They just didn't observe any at the time of their investigation, which goes to show that all of the others observed were out in the open! Imagine finding live and dead mice in the cars!

Bottom line is that the property will have to be condemned or will sell at far below value if anyone wants to purchase it with a known health hazard that is deadly. That's sad. Many pest control companies could have helped a bit more. The problem with the mice in many ways was the property architecture and location.

Was it mice or rats?

It’s deer mice that generally carry Hanta but I don’t think the PP has much knowledge about what it’s like to live in a place like northern New Mexico. I’m from Arizona. The issue is that when the land is so dry there is a lot of dust and stuff gets aerosolized. So if you are doing something that pushes up air and it gets into your nose, that can spread hanta, so it could have been from outside exposure if she kicked up dirt, or it could have been from a barn or something. Also mice out west don’t tend to live in houses the way they do here because most construction is solid concrete or adobe, not wood/drywall like you have here—I never knew anyone in Arizona that had mice inside the house llle is so common out east. In garages or outhouses, yes, you can get mice. Most of the US cases of hanta come from NM or AZ. Here’s an info sheet from a county in I think Arizona that indicates you can get it from yard work if you kick up the dust:

https://files.arapahoeco.gov/Public%20Health/Disease%20fact%20Sheets_en/Hanta%20Virus.pdf

I think hiking around a remote property could be the same — anything that kicks up the dust by where the mice were living.

In AZ we also get valley fever that comes from kicking up spores in the dust — you inhale the fungal spores that live on the dust. I think hanta is the same way—you inhale the virus as dust without realizing it. Because there’s no humidity in the air stuff just gets kicked up into the air and you inhale it more easily than out here. That’s why cowboys wore bandanas over their face!

So Betsy probably was not doing yardwork or hiking around the outdoors. She more than likely contracted the disease from the cars (droppings and urine and dead mice probably present) and/or from areas on the property or in the main house. It just seems odd that there were infestations in and around every building/garage/car on the property, but nothing in that main house -- nothing! I assure you that there were mice in the main house. But the infestation may not have been as abundant as the other areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the rat infestation was heavier than originally thought. God how disgusting!

I feel VINDICATED! A couple of you doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on me that there were no mice/rats in the house. I told you -- no way! I know mice and know how they work. For several postings, and links that I provided, I insisted that there were mice in that main house and that the house was not as clean and you guys assumed.

You guys called me crazy. But here it is! The house apparently was more like I described. To have died from Hantavirus, there had to be a lot of exposure to mouse droppings. No way Betsy walked out to a barn one day, breathed in some droppings, and walked back in and fell over. Mice are disgusting and they multiply very, very quickly. Once you see a mouse, there are many others nearby. And they leave droppings all over the place.

There were at least two or three of you that kept harping on me and said that I was crazy because the reports you had read only said that they found some evidence outside of the main house and along near other buildings.

The door was left open; the style of house was open to outside access; Betsy was a 65 year old woman caring for a 95 year old man with dementia. They had called pest control/maintenance and that is who found them a few weeks later.

Sometimes on dcum, you have to believe the posters that say they know this crap, no matter how badly you want to believe that an icon like Gene was living in a dirty, rat infested home. He's a person, and maybe cleanliness was not their thing.

Some of you have posted the articles. I am reposting here: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/gene-hackman-betsy-arakawa-property-020726959.html

However… from that article:
“The feces were found in two small homes, three sheds, three garages and two vehicles, per the outlet.

Rodent activity was also found in three detached garages.

The public health department determined that the pair’s main house showed no signs of infestation.

So it’s as those posters were saying.

Nope-- you are wrong. Again, mice just do not work that way. She did not get Hantavirus from walking outside of the main house each day for weeks on end. She got it by driving around in her car, and I'm certain there were mice in that house. She probably cleaned up after them because with the doors kept open, there is just no way. Smart people and people who have had mice know this, but we will let that charade continue.

Also note that "found no evidence of" is not the same as "there were none there." They just didn't observe any at the time of their investigation, which goes to show that all of the others observed were out in the open! Imagine finding live and dead mice in the cars!

Bottom line is that the property will have to be condemned or will sell at far below value if anyone wants to purchase it with a known health hazard that is deadly. That's sad. Many pest control companies could have helped a bit more. The problem with the mice in many ways was the property architecture and location.

Was it mice or rats?

It’s deer mice that generally carry Hanta but I don’t think the PP has much knowledge about what it’s like to live in a place like northern New Mexico. I’m from Arizona. The issue is that when the land is so dry there is a lot of dust and stuff gets aerosolized. So if you are doing something that pushes up air and it gets into your nose, that can spread hanta, so it could have been from outside exposure if she kicked up dirt, or it could have been from a barn or something. Also mice out west don’t tend to live in houses the way they do here because most construction is solid concrete or adobe, not wood/drywall like you have here—I never knew anyone in Arizona that had mice inside the house llle is so common out east. In garages or outhouses, yes, you can get mice. Most of the US cases of hanta come from NM or AZ. Here’s an info sheet from a county in I think Arizona that indicates you can get it from yard work if you kick up the dust:

https://files.arapahoeco.gov/Public%20Health/Disease%20fact%20Sheets_en/Hanta%20Virus.pdf

I think hiking around a remote property could be the same — anything that kicks up the dust by where the mice were living.

In AZ we also get valley fever that comes from kicking up spores in the dust — you inhale the fungal spores that live on the dust. I think hanta is the same way—you inhale the virus as dust without realizing it. Because there’s no humidity in the air stuff just gets kicked up into the air and you inhale it more easily than out here. That’s why cowboys wore bandanas over their face!

Seriously, thank you for this clarifying info. It would seem that people with asthma or lung issues shouldn't live there, yet I hear of people with asthma relocating there.

[Anonymous]

I feel like it was unnecessary to post pictures of their disheveled home right before their deaths. I would be embarrassed for the world to see my clothes pile and bathroom.

[Anonymous]

Agree. Also she was dead for at least a week before him. Since he had Alzheimer’s the mess could have been from him not managed for a week. It was also noted that some rooms were perfectly clean so the possibility it was mess from a dementia patient walking is possible.

[Anonymous]

They found live and dead rats and nests in vehicles and outbuildings, not mice. House had some hoarding. No way is it rodent free - rats love pet food and pet feces, it attracts them. They had 3 big dogs. She was mentally ill, hoarding is in DSM, that may be why no help, and he was senile. Sad. He had really burned bridges with his kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the rat infestation was heavier than originally thought. God how disgusting!

I feel VINDICATED! A couple of you doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on me that there were no mice/rats in the house. I told you -- no way! I know mice and know how they work. For several postings, and links that I provided, I insisted that there were mice in that main house and that the house was not as clean and you guys assumed.

You guys called me crazy. But here it is! The house apparently was more like I described. To have died from Hantavirus, there had to be a lot of exposure to mouse droppings. No way Betsy walked out to a barn one day, breathed in some droppings, and walked back in and fell over. Mice are disgusting and they multiply very, very quickly. Once you see a mouse, there are many others nearby. And they leave droppings all over the place.

There were at least two or three of you that kept harping on me and said that I was crazy because the reports you had read only said that they found some evidence outside of the main house and along near other buildings.

The door was left open; the style of house was open to outside access; Betsy was a 65 year old woman caring for a 95 year old man with dementia. They had called pest control/maintenance and that is who found them a few weeks later.

Sometimes on dcum, you have to believe the posters that say they know this crap, no matter how badly you want to believe that an icon like Gene was living in a dirty, rat infested home. He's a person, and maybe cleanliness was not their thing.

Some of you have posted the articles. I am reposting here: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/gene-hackman-betsy-arakawa-property-020726959.html

However… from that article:
“The feces were found in two small homes, three sheds, three garages and two vehicles, per the outlet.

Rodent activity was also found in three detached garages.

The public health department determined that the pair’s main house showed no signs of infestation.

So it’s as those posters were saying.

Nope-- you are wrong. Again, mice just do not work that way. She did not get Hantavirus from walking outside of the main house each day for weeks on end. She got it by driving around in her car, and I'm certain there were mice in that house. She probably cleaned up after them because with the doors kept open, there is just no way. Smart people and people who have had mice know this, but we will let that charade continue.

Also note that "found no evidence of" is not the same as "there were none there." They just didn't observe any at the time of their investigation, which goes to show that all of the others observed were out in the open! Imagine finding live and dead mice in the cars!

Bottom line is that the property will have to be condemned or will sell at far below value if anyone wants to purchase it with a known health hazard that is deadly. That's sad. Many pest control companies could have helped a bit more. The problem with the mice in many ways was the property architecture and location.

RATS
Was it mice or rats?

[Anonymous]

Visible evidence can mean droppings, not necessarily the mice themselves.

[Anonymous]

Honestly so dumb not to have hired outside help. Not sure if she was just conserving resources for when he died before her but their house looks filthy and they had a billion rodents throughout the property. Hiring a cleaning person and/or someone to help with Gene would have been the humane and responsible thing to do. A cleaning service, an exterminator, and maybe a few terriers or a cat would have done wonders. There’s even barn cat programs where you can adopt a cat that lives outside and hunts rodents for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Also she was dead for at least a week before him. Since he had Alzheimer’s the mess could have been from him not managed for a week. It was also noted that some rooms were perfectly clean so the possibility it was mess from a dementia patient walking is possible.

Not a chance. The amount of stuff that was there, that presumably he couldn’t have bought himself in that week is obvious hoarding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly so dumb not to have hired outside help. Not sure if she was just conserving resources for when he died before her but their house looks filthy and they had a billion rodents throughout the property. Hiring a cleaning person and/or someone to help with Gene would have been the humane and responsible thing to do. A cleaning service, an exterminator, and maybe a few terriers or a cat would have done wonders. There’s even barn cat programs where you can adopt a cat that lives outside and hunts rodents for you.

My mom's neighbor was a hoarder later in life. Typically, they don't let anyone into their house due to the shame. In her will she specified the one person who was allowed to go in and clear out the house. Really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Visible evidence can mean droppings, not necessarily the mice themselves.

+1