Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

I assume the 3 people in the helicopter died too?

I haven't heard much about that or any type of military briefing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ATC system is broken. After the Reagan firings the training was reduced and you now have under qualified controllers being rushed into jobs. And the rollout of GPS has taken decades. There’s no easy fix but the system needs budget and needs to hire people based on their qualifications and not other factors. And it’s the same with pilots too btw. DCA has some of the busiest space and had two near collisions in the last 6 months, both directly ATC screwups.

We should probably overhaul the system. Call it Nextgen or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s chaos in every single branch of the government right now. But sure blame the airport.

This is human error, not the government’s fault. But how can you not put some blame on the airport? It’s literally their job to manage planes landing. Saying to the helicopter “do you see the plane” when there are multiple close by planes, including one close enough to crash into them, seems like mismanagement of air traffic to me

The flight patterns necessarily take planes and helicopters close to each other. This only works if you can trust the helicopter flying under visual rules to see approaching aircraft. Maybe that's an unfair and unrealistic expectation, but expecting ATC to handle this any other way than they did is wholly impractical.

When multiple planes are in the sky close together, how is it that ATC communicates and distinguishes them to each other? If ATC called the helicopter to ask if they had visual of “the plane,” and the helicopter said yes, but it was a different plane, then ATC made in error in not effectively communicating and distinguishing the threat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ATC did everything right. How about some concern for those doing a highly stressful job? Yes, there are staffing shortages that everyone on this board should be concerned about. We take it for granted that flights take off and land safely every day ("safer than driving on the beltway") but do we really stop to consider how that happens and the people in the tower who make that happen? We'd all benefit from more ATCs who are well supported, materially and emotionally. I'd like to know why a training flight had to happen at night in that particular airspace.

Plus we don’t know if she’s saying that 2 seconds to impact or 1 or 2 minutes lead time.
Big difference.

For whatever reason, the helicopter cut to the west side of the river whilst adjacent DCA.
The ATCs aren't magic. They can repeatedly tell a helicopter to avoid collision but they can't actually change how they're flying. You also know the ATC who was talking to the helicopter A) is dealing with a mandatory investigation B) is likely devastated by what happened and C) is going to face blame from the media even if totally cleared and could potentially face harassment.

But why wouldn’t ATC tell the helicopter the exact location of the plane they are referring to that they are closest to colliding with? Maybe they did? But my interruption was that the call to the helicopter was vague considering at least 2-3 other planes were close by and descending

ATC shouldn't have to be distractedly babysitting a helicopter pilot futzing around in busy airspace. Every plane is following a flight plan and staying clear until given instructions to approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why would the helicopter have gone dark *before* it hit the plane?

You can still see the flashing light on the helicopter right up until it hits the plane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ATC did everything right. How about some concern for those doing a highly stressful job? Yes, there are staffing shortages that everyone on this board should be concerned about. We take it for granted that flights take off and land safely every day ("safer than driving on the beltway") but do we really stop to consider how that happens and the people in the tower who make that happen? We'd all benefit from more ATCs who are well supported, materially and emotionally. I'd like to know why a training flight had to happen at night in that particular airspace.

Plus we don’t know if she’s saying that 2 seconds to impact or 1 or 2 minutes lead time.
Big difference.

For whatever reason, the helicopter cut to the west side of the river whilst adjacent DCA.
The ATCs aren't magic. They can repeatedly tell a helicopter to avoid collision but they can't actually change how they're flying. You also know the ATC who was talking to the helicopter A) is dealing with a mandatory investigation B) is likely devastated by what happened and C) is going to face blame from the media even if totally cleared and could potentially face harassment.

But why wouldn’t ATC tell the helicopter the exact location of the plane they are referring to that they are closest to colliding with? Maybe they did? But my interruption was that the call to the helicopter was vague considering at least 2-3 other planes were close by and descending

I think that’s the problem—the helo pilots were watching the wrong plane and thought they were okay.

Ugh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any experience with how this type of wreckage impacts use of the river in the near future? Thank god the river was mostly frozen and not being used by recreational boaters.

Mostly frozen? Temps have been above freezing for several days.

I work at the Wharf and the river freezes and unfreezes when it's in the 40s 50s during the day.

I work in old town and am from Wisconsin. Rivers here don’t freeze beyond a thin surface layer for a day or two.

Yes but there's still a layer of ice. I "watched it go out" yesterday, and in other mornings only to see it come back in the am. It is true that I've seen very few recreational boaters and I think the water taxi stopped. Not sure it would even go after dark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why would the helicopter have gone dark *before* it hit the plane?

Anyone?

[Anonymous]

WHY wasn't there a DoD rep at the press conference???!!

It is WELL KNOWN that any kind of military aircraft mishap MUST have a public statement out NLT 1 hour after incident is known.

Press conference (including US Senators) didn't have a single word about/from the DoD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s chaos in every single branch of the government right now. But sure blame the airport.

This is human error, not the government’s fault. But how can you not put some blame on the airport? It’s literally their job to manage planes landing. Saying to the helicopter “do you see the plane” when there are multiple close by planes, including one close enough to crash into them, seems like mismanagement of air traffic to me

We don't now what this is yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no need for a direct flight from
National to Wichita. That airport is too congested.

I feel awful for the poor ATCs

This flight was added in 2024 for, you guessed it, a congressperson from Kansas.

Yeah Senator Moran said at the press conference that he was the one who lobbied to get that flight started. Weird flex in that moment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WHY wasn't there a DoD rep at the press conference???!!

It is WELL KNOWN that any kind of military aircraft mishap MUST have a public statement out NLT 1 hour after incident is known.

Press conference (including US Senators) didn't have a single word about/from the DoD.

^ And there isn't a thing on their website, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WHY wasn't there a DoD rep at the press conference???!!

It is WELL KNOWN that any kind of military aircraft mishap MUST have a public statement out NLT 1 hour after incident is known.

Press conference (including US Senators) didn't have a single word about/from the DoD.

Yeah I thought the DoD would be front and center here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fundamental problem is that the approach from upriver violates every FAA best practice for safety in order to follow the sharp curve of the river around Georgetown Landing, in order to reduce noise over residential areas and avoid protected airspace (VP mansion etc.). This removes the safety that comes from having a long-straight approach to the runway, which gives the landing pilots plenty of chance to see anything flying near them and gives helicopters relief from having a plane come whipping around the corner.

The sick irony is this all happens within site of FAA HQ.

That wasn't the approach the plane used here. It came from the south.

So is the southern approach long-straight, or does it also involve dangerous/late turns? And if so, why does it need these dangerous turns?

Long and straight from the south.

Come on. We all live here. No commercial jets are doing hairpin turns over a 200m wide river to instantly land. You fly way south over Maryland, get in the queue, then land. It’s the less “pretty” landing.

I just saw the ATC video — shows a sharp late curve to the left for the plane (as it switches from runway 1 to 33?).

It’s sounding suspicious.

Normal for that approach. You fly the runway 1 approach up the Potomac and dogleg to runway 33.

Don't want to fly over those home in Maryland or SW/SE.

Most every other major-metro airport (LGA, ORD, DTW, MDW for example) have long-straight approaches over dense neighborhoods...but in the FAA’s backyard, not?

[Anonymous]

I am not ecstatic to learn that there are military helicopter training exercises going on near commercial airports at night.