The Bike Lobby is too powerful in DC...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:That's what's so wrong about these efforts. Upper Connecticut will never be cool or hip. That's because it is the part of town that people move to when they start families and stop being cool or hip. It's a land of mom jeans and power walks. Conversations about schools and youth sports. Kid friendly restaurants and gardening. It's where Gen Z and Zoomers live at home with their parents. It's where Gen X moved when they had kids, just like the Boomers before them, and Millennials now.

To put it simply, there are too many kids and fuddy duddies to ever attract the trendy and childless.

It's the first I've ever heard that walking and riding a bike are things only done by the trendy and childless. I've been walking since I was 1, and riding a bike since I was 4, so this comes as quite a surprise.

It's ok, you got old and are no longer hip or cool. There's no shame in that. It's the circle of life. Remember, there is nothing less cool than a parent trying to pretend that they are. So it was and so shall it be.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and I have never even aspired to be hip or cool, before, during, or after kids in the house. What does that have to do with walking and riding a bike?

You seem not to have read the post immediately above the one you responded to.

Everyone already bikes and walks within the neighborhoods on the side streets. The very places you seemingly wish to divert traffic to.

Maybe that's "equitable" because that's where more of the single family houses are?

I mean, let's take a look at that. People live on Ordway, people live on Connecticut, so why is Ordway a "neighborhood street" and there shouldn't be cars, but Connecticut isn't a "neighborhood street" and there should be cars?

Connecticut is a truck route and Ordway isn't for one: https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/service_content/attachments/DC%20Truck%20Map%20Brochure_12.10.20_web.pdf

Ordway isn't a straight shot from the beltway to downtown either.

You're just explaining that what is, is. Everyone knows that.

Instead, please explain why people who live on one street (Connecticut) should have to live with noise, pollution, and danger from cars, so that people who live on a different street (for example, Ordway) can be protected from noise, pollution, and danger from cars.

You would have an easier time getting all the people off Connecticut than all the cars off Connecticut. That's just the reality of what would happen if push came to shove.

So the solution is fix other smaller roads without such high stakes, let people see how much better things can be, and build on that. Then a future generation has a chance of fixing Connecticut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's what's so wrong about these efforts. Upper Connecticut will never be cool or hip. That's because it is the part of town that people move to when they start families and stop being cool or hip. It's a land of mom jeans and power walks. Conversations about schools and youth sports. Kid friendly restaurants and gardening. It's where Gen Z and Zoomers live at home with their parents. It's where Gen X moved when they had kids, just like the Boomers before them, and Millennials now.

To put it simply, there are too many kids and fuddy duddies to ever attract the trendy and childless.

It's the first I've ever heard that walking and riding a bike are things only done by the trendy and childless. I've been walking since I was 1, and riding a bike since I was 4, so this comes as quite a surprise.

That's why I want our neighborhood streets to be safe so that my kids can ride bikes there as they do now. More cars and trucks diverted from gridlocked Connecticut Avenue onto these streets will make them less safe.

Agreed! Neighborhood streets should be safe. All streets should be safe! Including Connecticut Avenue, which is also a neighborhood street and should also be safe.

How exactly will bike lanes make Connecticut Avenue safe, particularly when they squeeze capacity down? And Connecticut Avenue and the other major arterials are where the through traffic is supposed to go, because Upper Northwest Washington (Ward 3) lacks any of the radial freeways like in SE, SW, MoCo and Arlington.

I don't know how were on 100s of combined pages of threads on the CT bike lane and people could still ask this question in good faith. I'll just assume its in bad faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's what's so wrong about these efforts. Upper Connecticut will never be cool or hip. That's because it is the part of town that people move to when they start families and stop being cool or hip. It's a land of mom jeans and power walks. Conversations about schools and youth sports. Kid friendly restaurants and gardening. It's where Gen Z and Zoomers live at home with their parents. It's where Gen X moved when they had kids, just like the Boomers before them, and Millennials now.

To put it simply, there are too many kids and fuddy duddies to ever attract the trendy and childless.

It's the first I've ever heard that walking and riding a bike are things only done by the trendy and childless. I've been walking since I was 1, and riding a bike since I was 4, so this comes as quite a surprise.

That's why I want our neighborhood streets to be safe so that my kids can ride bikes there as they do now. More cars and trucks diverted from gridlocked Connecticut Avenue onto these streets will make them less safe.

Agreed! Neighborhood streets should be safe. All streets should be safe! Including Connecticut Avenue, which is also a neighborhood street and should also be safe.

How exactly will bike lanes make Connecticut Avenue safe, particularly when they squeeze capacity down? And Connecticut Avenue and the other major arterials are where the through traffic is supposed to go, because Upper Northwest Washington (Ward 3) lacks any of the radial freeways like in SE, SW, MoCo and Arlington.

Read the DDOT report and the thousands of studies available nationally about how to make streets safer. Don't take the word of rando's on a message board. Read the reports from traffic engineers who have had success in making city streets more multi-modal and safer.

Capacity isn't going to be squeezed down. There are three lanes each way now. The curb lanes are for parking. There is a through lane and the center lanes are through lanes that generally get caught with turning vehicles. So basically there is one through lane now, with opportunity for 1-2 more through lanes depending on conditions.

In the new configuration, there are pocket turn lanes, which means instead of 1-2 through lanes, there will be 2 through lanes. Hence little to no degradation of throughput, no "squeezing down"

The traffic doom being hypothesized by the project opponents is pure fantasy.

The other thing that bike lanes proponents don’t get is that the dedicated turn lanes are no panacea for the neighborhoods. In fact, residents on the side streets don’t want those at all because they will just invite Connecticut Avenue traffic to divert through those streets to get around avenue congestion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The other thing that bike lanes proponents don’t get is that the dedicated turn lanes are no panacea for the neighborhoods. In fact, residents on the side streets don’t want those at all because they will just invite Connecticut Avenue traffic to divert through those streets to get around avenue congestion.

One of the many things that people in the silly yellow t-shirts don't get (or, more accurately, don't acknowledge) is that plenty of residents in the Connecticut Avenue area support the bike lane project on Connecticut Avenue.

[Anonymous]

Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The DC police union position against the Connecticut Avenue bike lane proposal apparently has prompted WABA to rush the release of a “Coalition Letter Regarding Connecticut Avenue Multimodal Project” in support of bike lanes. What’s noteworthy about the “coalition” should have seemed so obvious in hindsight, the active role of Greater Greater Washington and the various development lobby groups in the echo chamber in pushing the construction of the bike lanes. It’s clear that the Option C bike lane plan is not just about alternative transportation options, it’s a necessary ingredient, an enabling condition for the development lobby to realize its plans to redevelop all of Connecticut Avenue from the Taft Bridge up to Chevy Chase Circle as a much taller, denser, busier urban corridor. Maybe that’s even the primary reason driving bike lanes forward. One challenge that DC real estate developers and investors face is that Connecticut Ave and Ward 3 in general lack the “vibe” or coolness factor of U Street and other hot neighborhoods to attract the Millennial and Gen Z renters and purchasers that they desperately need. They believe that bike lanes will help to market the Connecticut corridor to this demographic. And just as bike lanes can help to support upzoned, upmarket development along the entire length of Connecticut, much more development is necessary to provide more bike riders to justify the cost and disruption and impact of Option C. That’s the real deal - bike lanes for greater, greater development.

Woodley Park and Cleveland Park are already historic districts, they aren't going to be significantly 're-made"
Van Ness is already dense.

I am a neighbor. I am not part of a "developer lobby" or a "bike lobby" but I support Option C because Connecticut Avenue is woefully unsafe. So, sure, call me part of some cabal. It makes me, and people like me, resent you even more, because not only are you trying to belittle MY voice in the community, but you want to maintain a status quo that is dangerous for people like me, your neighbor, in getting around to the shops and businesses I would like to support.

You haven’t been paying attention. The Connecticut Ave Development Guidelines from the D.C. government, which likely will be buttressed by upzoning, more than double the allowable height in the Cleveland Park historic district on Connecticut Avenue. So a district of one and two floor historic buildings could be topped by infill construction up to 90 feet in total - nine floors. That’s a rather significant remaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

Seems like it would be better if we started removing bike lanes. It's a lot of space for reserved for a very, very, very small number of people. They're almost always empty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

Seems like it would be better if we started removing bike lanes. It's a lot of space for reserved for a very, very, very small number of people. They're almost always empty.

Use it or lose it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

Sounds like just the plan right now for revitalising our downtown business district and persuading more suburban dwellers to spend more time at their DC offices! You must be a CEO or an economist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

Metro has gone down hill. People prefer driving. If downtown DC isn't drivable, there are job centers in Virginia and Maryland that are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

Metro has gone down hill. People prefer driving. If downtown DC isn't drivable, there are job centers in Virginia and Maryland that are.

You prefer driving. Don't generalize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

Seems like it would be better if we started removing bike lanes. It's a lot of space for reserved for a very, very, very small number of people. They're almost always empty.

You can't remove bike lanes from Connecticut Avenue, because there aren't any. Where are you posting from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

Metro has gone down hill. People prefer driving. If downtown DC isn't drivable, there are job centers in Virginia and Maryland that are.

Metro could win back more riders by arresting muggers, fare thieves, vandals, and pot smokers on the trains. Metro used to set the gold standard. Now there are Third World transit systems that are cleaner and safer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's one problem. DC and the mayor are lamenting the decrease in inhabited office space downtown and support for small businesses downtown. They are trying to encourage businesses to RTO and to bring employees back to the downtown area to revitalize the patronage of the many businesses downtown that rely upon the workday workforce population, like restaurants. If they want to do this, then they need to make the commute downtown more commuter friendly to incentivize having offices in the downtown area.

Conversely they are trying to encourage urban mixed use, like transit, biking and pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. But those mixed use thoroughfares make it harder for workers who live outside the district to commute in to work. Plus the real estate costs downtown, whether purchased or rented, are more expensive. So, why would businesses want to move their business back downtown when it is more expensive and less convenient to get their workforce to work?

The district needs to come up with a plan that supports incentivizing businesses to return to the downtown area. And the current Conn Ave plan is not it. This type of change is discouraging businesses that moved out of the downtown area during the pandemic from returning.

No, it doesn't. At worst, it makes it harder for workers who live outside the district to drive in their own cars to work. There would still be plenty of options for commuting, even if the entire length of Connecticut Avenue were turned into bus-bike-walk only.

Metro has gone down hill. People prefer driving. If downtown DC isn't drivable, there are job centers in Virginia and Maryland that are.

You prefer driving. Don't generalize.

Ridership rates make it easy to generalize. Traffic is back, metro is not