Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So why didn't the kids speak up and demand to call their parents? Why come the kids didn't fight back, run off, refuse to go, use their cell phone to immediately call their parents? What happened to the mature, knows what to do even In a frightening situation 10 yr old?

Imagine now it wasn't the police who came along and took the kids.

Clearly the 10 yr old and 6 yr old aren't equipped to deal with situations like the parents believed.

Well, it was the police.

I'd guess the children were either intimidated by that fact or were raised to trust the police and therefore went with the policemen/women in question because they saw them as adults one can trust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what - I can teach my children to be self sufficient without needing to force my 6 year old to wander past abandoned parking garages and homeless people alone, and cross dangerous intersections without assistance. These parents have no sense of proportion or sense. The lawsuit will demonstrate that the police acted reasonably in response to finding two young children alone in a risky area.

Simmer down helicopter. Last time I checked it is okay to walk past parking garages and homeless people are not criminals. The fact that you see two kids walking home from a park without a parent is now neglect is the whole reason why CPS feels they can justify their actions even know there is no law broken. Pretty soon we will be exactly where you helicopters want the kids to be. Like Wall-E. Stuck to chairs watching screens "safe" from any harm.

If you think it was okay for you to walk alone at these ages when you were a kid and it is not now, how much more paranoid can we get in 20 more years when we are grandparents. Will you have to be 18yrs old to watch a sibling? 21yrs old to be by yourself? Will latchkey kids be completely illegal. All kids until high school need after-care? Does any of this sound ridiculous? Because I am 100% sure if you asked our parents 20-30yrs ago about what is going on today, they would think you were crazy.

Use your brain - a small six year old wandering around looking lost in a downtown area is absolutely cause for concern and an appropriate reason for police intervention. This is not about high school students, or even 12 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Md. free-range parents to file lawsuit against CPS to fight the "unlawful seizure of their children."

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/maryland/2015/04/14/free-range-parenting-lawsuit-cps/25759523/

I don't like this couple and I'm on CPS side on this one, but I'm actually glad they're suing. Let's get this issue resolved. Is CPS overstepping? I read the regs to be pretty clear that you're not supposed to leave a kid under 8 unsupervised, and the supervision must be by someone 11 (if sibling) or 13 or older. But it's a bit fuzzy whether that applies to public spaces or just at home. So let's get it resolved already. Regardless, I expect there will not be any finding of liability on the part of the police or CPS. They're going to be able to show that they're legally obligated to follow up on the report and not just turn the kids over to the parents without some investigation. To me, the only thing they may have done wrong is take too long in resolving it. But I'm not sure how that leads to any liability.
I also fully expect that if this couple (and all the spittle-flinging crazies on this thread) succeed in removing any regulations for young children being left unsupervised, they will then vilify CPS for NOT protecting unsupervised young kids when something does happen as a result of that. Of course, most of the time, the bad stuff that happens to unsupervised kids doesn't make the news. And I also think that a *lot* of the reason that people think these parents are good parents is simply because they look like us and our friends. A lot packed into that level of bias.

Actually that too is incorrect. In fact anything that has to do with kids makes the news. We hear of crimes with children internationally that we would not if it was an adult. These 24hr news stations cater to the paranoid. More kids die in cars and in their homes supervised than alone. Kids that are abducted know their predator 73% of the time. Crimes with children in playgrounds playing together with no parents and getting snatched by a stranger? They are very hard to come by.

No. Most of the time the bad stuff that happens to unsupervised kids doesn't even get reported. But most of it happens to people you don't know and no one cares about.

Ooooh, okay I see. Good retort. That was very specific with a lot of facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Md. free-range parents to file lawsuit against CPS to fight the "unlawful seizure of their children."

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/maryland/2015/04/14/free-range-parenting-lawsuit-cps/25759523/

I don't like this couple and I'm on CPS side on this one, but I'm actually glad they're suing. Let's get this issue resolved. Is CPS overstepping? I read the regs to be pretty clear that you're not supposed to leave a kid under 8 unsupervised, and the supervision must be by someone 11 (if sibling) or 13 or older. But it's a bit fuzzy whether that applies to public spaces or just at home. So let's get it resolved already. Regardless, I expect there will not be any finding of liability on the part of the police or CPS. They're going to be able to show that they're legally obligated to follow up on the report and not just turn the kids over to the parents without some investigation. To me, the only thing they may have done wrong is take too long in resolving it. But I'm not sure how that leads to any liability.
I also fully expect that if this couple (and all the spittle-flinging crazies on this thread) succeed in removing any regulations for young children being left unsupervised, they will then vilify CPS for NOT protecting unsupervised young kids when something does happen as a result of that. Of course, most of the time, the bad stuff that happens to unsupervised kids doesn't make the news. And I also think that a *lot* of the reason that people think these parents are good parents is simply because they look like us and our friends. A lot packed into that level of bias.

First off, they don't look like me. Second, I think they are good parents because I used to do the same when I was a kid and I now do the same with my kids. I think they (my kids) are better off for it. Stop generalizing to prove a point that can not be proven.

They are wealthy and white. And most of the people up in arms about this are wealthy and white. Are you seriously disputing that? I think they're crappy parents because they decided to make their point by traumatizing their kids. The dog bites you once, don't throw your kid in front of it. If you think the law is unjust, work to change it. The knew this would happen and went for it anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You're making a lot of generalizations and assumptions. You're assuming, first, that the story the parents present is the entire story. I don't assume that. Second, your statement that "it's not neglect to let your child walk home from the park" is obviously overly general. If I let my 4 year old walk home alone from the park, that's neglect. I think if I let my 6 year old walk home alone from the park, that would also be neglect, but that might depend on how far the park is, the maturity level of the kid, etc. If I let my 8 year old walk home alone from the park, I don't think that's neglect, and neither does CPS. So let's be clear on how awful this nanny state really is. They agree if the kid is 8, it's all good. Your disagreement is on where that line is (somewhere between 4 and 8, probably -- you'd say closer to 4 and I'd say closer to 8).
I don't know whether the parents are neglecting their children in other ways, but I do know that two separate people have reported these kids (according to that Fox news story that said the most recent reporter didn't know the kids). That to me says there's something worth investigating. That's what CPS did. And the police report, while certainly not definitive, raises the issue of the kids being spotted in/near the garage and for long enough that the person reporting it called and when the police came the kids were still there. That's not consistent with the story of the kids walking home from the park -- at the very least there was some dawdling near a parking garage with a homeless guy. If my kids were doing that, I would want a police officer to check it out and get them out of that situation. I'd of course want him to then bring them home to me. But they can't do that, because once the report has happened, they have to do their due diligence to make sure the place they're returning the kids to is safe for the kids.
Your conclusion, that CPS messed up, isn't determined. You would have to know a lot more about this situation before you decide that. The may have, they may not have.

To me, it says that something that used to be a fact of normal life (children walking by themselves in public) has now become so unusual that two separate people thought that the best thing to do, when they saw two children walking by themselves in public, was to call the police. I think that's really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Md. free-range parents to file lawsuit against CPS to fight the "unlawful seizure of their children."

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/maryland/2015/04/14/free-range-parenting-lawsuit-cps/25759523/

I don't like this couple and I'm on CPS side on this one, but I'm actually glad they're suing. Let's get this issue resolved. Is CPS overstepping? I read the regs to be pretty clear that you're not supposed to leave a kid under 8 unsupervised, and the supervision must be by someone 11 (if sibling) or 13 or older. But it's a bit fuzzy whether that applies to public spaces or just at home. So let's get it resolved already. Regardless, I expect there will not be any finding of liability on the part of the police or CPS. They're going to be able to show that they're legally obligated to follow up on the report and not just turn the kids over to the parents without some investigation. To me, the only thing they may have done wrong is take too long in resolving it. But I'm not sure how that leads to any liability.
I also fully expect that if this couple (and all the spittle-flinging crazies on this thread) succeed in removing any regulations for young children being left unsupervised, they will then vilify CPS for NOT protecting unsupervised young kids when something does happen as a result of that. Of course, most of the time, the bad stuff that happens to unsupervised kids doesn't make the news. And I also think that a *lot* of the reason that people think these parents are good parents is simply because they look like us and our friends. A lot packed into that level of bias.

Actually that too is incorrect. In fact anything that has to do with kids makes the news. We hear of crimes with children internationally that we would not if it was an adult. These 24hr news stations cater to the paranoid. More kids die in cars and in their homes supervised than alone. Kids that are abducted know their predator 73% of the time. Crimes with children in playgrounds playing together with no parents and getting snatched by a stranger? They are very hard to come by.

No. Most of the time the bad stuff that happens to unsupervised kids doesn't even get reported. But most of it happens to people you don't know and no one cares about.

Ooooh, okay I see. Good retort. That was very specific with a lot of facts.

You're right. There's no such thing as child neglect. My years working with abused kids was all imaginary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You're making a lot of generalizations and assumptions. You're assuming, first, that the story the parents present is the entire story. I don't assume that. Second, your statement that "it's not neglect to let your child walk home from the park" is obviously overly general. If I let my 4 year old walk home alone from the park, that's neglect. I think if I let my 6 year old walk home alone from the park, that would also be neglect, but that might depend on how far the park is, the maturity level of the kid, etc. If I let my 8 year old walk home alone from the park, I don't think that's neglect, and neither does CPS. So let's be clear on how awful this nanny state really is. They agree if the kid is 8, it's all good. Your disagreement is on where that line is (somewhere between 4 and 8, probably -- you'd say closer to 4 and I'd say closer to 8).
I don't know whether the parents are neglecting their children in other ways, but I do know that two separate people have reported these kids (according to that Fox news story that said the most recent reporter didn't know the kids). That to me says there's something worth investigating. That's what CPS did. And the police report, while certainly not definitive, raises the issue of the kids being spotted in/near the garage and for long enough that the person reporting it called and when the police came the kids were still there. That's not consistent with the story of the kids walking home from the park -- at the very least there was some dawdling near a parking garage with a homeless guy. If my kids were doing that, I would want a police officer to check it out and get them out of that situation. I'd of course want him to then bring them home to me. But they can't do that, because once the report has happened, they have to do their due diligence to make sure the place they're returning the kids to is safe for the kids.
Your conclusion, that CPS messed up, isn't determined. You would have to know a lot more about this situation before you decide that. The may have, they may not have.

To me, it says that something that used to be a fact of normal life (children walking by themselves in public) has now become so unusual that two separate people thought that the best thing to do, when they saw two children walking by themselves in public, was to call the police. I think that's really sad.

You didn't see it, but you just know that they were wrong to be concerned even though they did see it. Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They are wealthy and white. And most of the people up in arms about this are wealthy and white. Are you seriously disputing that? I think they're crappy parents because they decided to make their point by traumatizing their kids. The dog bites you once, don't throw your kid in front of it. If you think the law is unjust, work to change it. The knew this would happen and went for it anyway.

They're wealthy? Are you their accountant?

Also, if you want to change an unjust situation, here is a great strategy: publicity. Which is exactly what the parents did, in January. Whereupon people decided that they were only out for the publicity. I guess that they were supposed to work to change the unjust situation, but in private?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parents are stupid. What's easier, watching your kids at a park, or having to deal with the police? They should be ashamed of themselves for their lousy parenting. I feel sorry for the kids. The older kid is having to act like a parent and the younger one is being parented by a child.

It's called teaching kids responsibility. All this handholding of kids has led to helpless young adults who can't do anything without their parents.

My brother is 29, parent of the millenial generation and 12 years younger than me so basically my parents dealt with him way differently than me. They were helicopter parents with him. I was a typical 80s free roaming kids. My brother has been in arrested development, can't figure out how to wash his clothes, make a decent meal, open a checking account, budget, basic in depending living essentials. It's incredible and sad. All this handholding does have consequences,

You can properly supervise and support your kids and teach them life skills. I am sick of the whole so called helicopter parwnt criticism industry. Kids thrive with emotional support and attention. While they may become more independent if you ignore them, it comes at a huge emotional cost. Just witness these Meitev parents, who care more about their internet parenting theories than actually protecting their kids from further problems. If they are so wedded to having a free range six year old they need to move to a small town.

+1000. You don't have to be a helicopter parent to think a 6 year old needs supervision. I'm not letting my 6 year old walk a half a mile to the park alone. I would let her do it with me watching from a distance, sure. But I'm not a helicopter parent in the sense that I'd do her homework for her or mediate her disputes for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You didn't see it, but you just know that they were wrong to be concerned even though they did see it. Ok.

You didn't see it, and you don't know the people who did see it, but you just know that they were right to be concerned?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guess what - I can teach my children to be self sufficient without needing to force my 6 year old to wander past abandoned parking garages and homeless people alone, and cross dangerous intersections without assistance. These parents have no sense of proportion or sense. The lawsuit will demonstrate that the police acted reasonably in response to finding two young children alone in a risky area.

Simmer down helicopter. Last time I checked it is okay to walk past parking garages and homeless people are not criminals. The fact that you see two kids walking home from a park without a parent is now neglect is the whole reason why CPS feels they can justify their actions even know there is no law broken. Pretty soon we will be exactly where you helicopters want the kids to be. Like Wall-E. Stuck to chairs watching screens "safe" from any harm.

If you think it was okay for you to walk alone at these ages when you were a kid and it is not now, how much more paranoid can we get in 20 more years when we are grandparents. Will you have to be 18yrs old to watch a sibling? 21yrs old to be by yourself? Will latchkey kids be completely illegal. All kids until high school need after-care? Does any of this sound ridiculous? Because I am 100% sure if you asked our parents 20-30yrs ago about what is going on today, they would think you were crazy.

Use your brain - a small six year old wandering around looking lost in a downtown area is absolutely cause for concern and an appropriate reason for police intervention. This is not about high school students, or even 12 year olds.

But there wasn't a 6yr old wandering alone looking helpless and lost in a dangerous urban downtown area. That is what helicopters see when they look at the situation. THAT is the problem. It was a 10yr old and 6yr old walking home from a park. To non-helicopter parents it was nothing more, nothing less. When the cop asked them to get into the car and they said they are 2 blocks from home and rather keep going but were not allowed, THAT is a problem. Police telling the kids they will take them home and then leaving them in a cop car for 3hrs IS a problem. Kids asking to call their parents and were told no, THAT is a problem. Being held for close to 6hrs with nothing to eat or drink. THAT is a problem. Not calling the parents to say we have your kids. THAT is a problem. Coercing them to sign some made up form before getting to see their kids at almost 11pm at night. THAT is a problem.

So you never walked with siblings or alone in elementary school. Your parents didn't let you go anywhere without them (up the street, to a store, to a playground) until 6th grade when you were young? Is that correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
+1000. You don't have to be a helicopter parent to think a 6 year old needs supervision. I'm not letting my 6 year old walk a half a mile to the park alone. I would let her do it with me watching from a distance, sure. But I'm not a helicopter parent in the sense that I'd do her homework for her or mediate her disputes for her.

Neither did the Meitivs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[Of course, most of the time, the bad stuff that happens to unsupervised kids doesn't make the news. And I also think that a *lot* of the reason that people think these parents are good parents is simply because they look like us and our friends. A lot packed into that level of bias.

A lot of "bad stuff" happens to children while they are being supervised as well.
Those 500,000 child poisonings of children per year under 5 didn't happen because a parent wasn't at home.

In fact "bad stuff" happens while a parent is actually looking directly at the child. Ask any ER nurse or doctor.

I also notice tons of very young kids riding the subway alone with me going to and from school in DC.

So I guess they don't matter to DC CPS? Or could it be that DC CPS actually thinks more reasonably than MD CPS?

And if we here carry that level of trust bias, why am I not then faulting the families of color who let their children ride to school unsupervised on public transportation?

Just saying...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The parents are stupid. What's easier, watching your kids at a park, or having to deal with the police? They should be ashamed of themselves for their lousy parenting. I feel sorry for the kids. The older kid is having to act like a parent and the younger one is being parented by a child.

It's called teaching kids responsibility. All this handholding of kids has led to helpless young adults who can't do anything without their parents.

My brother is 29, parent of the millenial generation and 12 years younger than me so basically my parents dealt with him way differently than me. They were helicopter parents with him. I was a typical 80s free roaming kids. My brother has been in arrested development, can't figure out how to wash his clothes, make a decent meal, open a checking account, budget, basic in depending living essentials. It's incredible and sad. All this handholding does have consequences,

You can properly supervise and support your kids and teach them life skills. I am sick of the whole so called helicopter parwnt criticism industry. Kids thrive with emotional support and attention. While they may become more independent if you ignore them, it comes at a huge emotional cost. Just witness these Meitev parents, who care more about their internet parenting theories than actually protecting their kids from further problems. If they are so wedded to having a free range six year old they need to move to a small town.

+1000. You don't have to be a helicopter parent to think a 6 year old needs supervision. I'm not letting my 6 year old walk a half a mile to the park alone. I would let her do it with me watching from a distance, sure. But I'm not a helicopter parent in the sense that I'd do her homework for her or mediate her disputes for her.

So how come in 1980 it was said that for a 6yr old 1st grader to be ready for 1st grade, they should be able to walk 4-8 blocks on their own? What changed besides parent's paranoia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They are wealthy and white. And most of the people up in arms about this are wealthy and white. Are you seriously disputing that? I think they're crappy parents because they decided to make their point by traumatizing their kids. The dog bites you once, don't throw your kid in front of it. If you think the law is unjust, work to change it. The knew this would happen and went for it anyway.

They're wealthy? Are you their accountant?

Also, if you want to change an unjust situation, here is a great strategy: publicity. Which is exactly what the parents did, in January. Whereupon people decided that they were only out for the publicity. I guess that they were supposed to work to change the unjust situation, but in private?

Reasonable assumption they're wealthy from their jobs and home location. YOu think it's cool to get publicity by having your kids be in the spotlight? Wow.